Join PETA ( People for the Ethical Treatment of animals)

[Overdose]

I eat meat. However, I can totally see where the PETA people are coming from in many respects. Many people have talked about the "natural world", but humans use things that are far from natural in our every day lives. Since we are so advanced why do we still kill an innocent animal for food when we have other ways to make ourselves nourished and ways for us to lead a healthy lifestyle?

We are far from the days of the cave-men and humans typically pride themselves on our advancements and being sophisticated. Why would we use "it is natural and how we've always done it" as an argument to justify the slaughter of innocent animals?

Humans started out eating meat. That was how we were first created. But I'm sure we can all agree that the majority of things we did when we were first created were not the most humane, fair and intelligent ways of doing things. We have evolved and maybe it is time for our eating habits to move with the times.

I'm a hypocrite though. I find that it is too hard to not eat meat since it is everywhere and I love the taste of it. But I find my actions to be wrong and not justified.

[Napsterbater]

We are far from the days of the cave-men and humans typically pride themselves on our advancements and being sophisticated. Why would we use "it is natural and how we've always done it" as an argument to justify the slaughter of innocent animals?

Because we are not so far from the days of cave-men as we think.

[Blob]

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

Because we are not so far from the days of cave-men as we think.

And we are only ever two meals away from reverting.

[mad dog]

Originally Posted by Inviolable

I would say there is a big difference between handing out death flyers to children and spelling PETA with dead animals.

But you are correct, 2 wrongs dont make a right.

That was my only point.

Another thing I don't care for...........I don't have a problem with Billy Bob throwing a deer on the hood of his car to transport it home. I have a problem with Billy Bob throwing a deer on his car and stopping at every bar and hangout to show off.

Where did you say you lived again Must be an awesome place to take in a view.

Adirondacks, and yes it is awsome, a bad time of year is comming up fast though, black fly season. These little buggers are a pain in the butt. The good thing is that they only last a short time, as long as it isn't rainy. Oh and yes we give them their own season

[mad dog]

Originally Posted by Overdose

Since we are so advanced why do we still kill an innocent animal for food when we have other ways to make ourselves nourished and ways for us to lead a healthy lifestyle?

What other ways are you speaking of? I hope your not talking about the meat and crap bought in a store they're full of chemicals and are just the opposite of being very healthy.

We are far from the days of the cave-men and humans typically pride themselves on our advancements and being sophisticated. Why would we use "it is natural and how we've always done it" as an argument to justify the slaughter of innocent animals?

I don't know how folks hunt critters where you live but we peoples up north here have a new invention called the gun, it takes bullets. Far from the way cave man did his deed.

Humans started out eating meat. That was how we were first created. But I'm sure we can all agree that the majority of things we did when we were first created were not the most humane, fair and intelligent ways of doing things. We have evolved and maybe it is time for our eating habits to move with the times.

I ask again what is your trade off for real meat?

I'm a hypocrite though. I find that it is too hard to not eat meat since it is everywhere and I love the taste of it. But I find my actions to be wrong and not justified.

Meat eating animals have a more advanced brain, there is proof to back this up. Don't feel bad because of how you were created {meat eater} this is just how mother nature planned things. Now if you do see a deer holding a shotgun in your face you may want to find out what the heck happened

[Dio Seijuro]

I eat meat. However, I can totally see where the PETA people are coming from in many respects. Many people have talked about the "natural world", but humans use things that are far from natural in our every day lives. Since we are so advanced why do we still kill an innocent animal for food when we have other ways to make ourselves nourished and ways for us to lead a healthy lifestyle?

We are far from the days of the cave-men and humans typically pride themselves on our advancements and being sophisticated. Why would we use "it is natural and how we've always done it" as an argument to justify the slaughter of innocent animals?

Humans started out eating meat. That was how we were first created. But I'm sure we can all agree that the majority of things we did when we were first created were not the most humane, fair and intelligent ways of doing things. We have evolved and maybe it is time for our eating habits to move with the times.

I'm a hypocrite though. I find that it is too hard to not eat meat since it is everywhere and I love the taste of it. But I find my actions to be wrong and not justified.

Other ways are certainly feasible. But they are expensive. Even now you can go to a good supermarket and buy "Naturally Raised/Humanely Slaughtered" meat/poultry--they cost twice as much as regular. I try to buy these when I can, but it is probably difficult for the price to lower any time soon, if ever.

Talk about hypocrisy, I find it interesting, that our sympathy towards the particular species of living creatures that we slaughter is generally proportional to how likeable they are, or how human-like they express their pain. Although how hypocrytical this trait is remains debatible, certainly when it comes to protecting animals, "some are more equal than others". In some parts of the world they fry cockroaches. I am not sympathetic. Are you? If they kill a "ducky" inhumanely, some cry murder. The rest of us at least squirm.

[Overdose]

Originally Posted by mad dog

What other ways are you speaking of? I hope your not talking about the meat and crap bought in a store they're full of chemicals and are just the opposite of being very healthy.

Have you ever read about the slaughter yards in the United States? The amount of shit that gets into your food and the nasty conditions? That is anything but healthy. As for the "chemicals", well the main reason you eat meat is for protein. You can get that from rice, beans and eggs.

Originally Posted by mad dog

I ask again what is your trade off for real meat?

Rice, beans and eggs. And you can take pills with things in them that you need to have a healthy diet.

Originally Posted by mad dog

Meat eating animals have a more advanced brain, there is proof to back this up. Don't feel bad because of how you were created {meat eater} this is just how mother nature planned things. Now if you do see a deer holding a shotgun in your face you may want to find out what the heck happened

Just because something is natural does not mean it is correct if it harms or hurts something. If you can avoid doing so why not stop it?

[BorgHunter]

Originally Posted by Overdose

Just because something is natural does not mean it is correct if it harms or hurts something. If you can avoid doing so why not stop it?

It harms something, so what? That's the way to ecosystem works. Ever heard of the food chain? We eat weaker things. That's the way it is and that's the way it should be, though if you don't want to eat meat, that's your choice. Just don't get sanctimonious about me doing so. Should we outlaw carnivorous animals because they are harming another creature? I mean, it's natural, bit it harms and hurts something, and we can certainly stop it, so why don't we?

[BorgHunter]

I don't want to face the killer instinct
Face it in you or me

We carry a sensitive cargo
Below the waterline
Ticking like a time bomb
With a primitive design
Behind the finer feelings
This civilized veneer
The heart of a lonely hunter
Guards a dangerous frontier

The balance can sometimes fail
Strong emotions can tip the scale

Don't want to silence a desperate voice
For the sake of security
No one wants to make a terrible choice
On the price of being free
I don't want to face the killer instinct
Face it in you or me
So we keep it under lock and key.

It's not a matter of mercy
It's not a matter of laws
Plenty of people will kill you
For some fanatical cause
It's not a matter of conscience
A search for probable cause
It's just a matter of instinct
A matter of fatal flaws

No reward for resistance
No assistance, no applause.

Don't want to silence a desperate voice
For the sake of security
No one wants to make a terrible choice
On the price of being free
I don't want to face the killer instinct
Face it in you or me
So we keep it under lock and key.

We don't want to be victims
On that we all agree
So we lock up the killer instinct
And throw away the key.

[Overdose]

Originally Posted by BorgHunter

It harms something, so what? That's the way to ecosystem works. Ever heard of the food chain? We eat weaker things. That's the way it is and that's the way it should be, though if you don't want to eat meat, that's your choice. Just don't get sanctimonious about me doing so. Should we outlaw carnivorous animals because they are harming another creature? I mean, it's natural, bit it harms and hurts something, and we can certainly stop it, so why don't we?

You are missing the point. Carnivorous animals in the wild are not advanced enough to be able to survive without inflicting harm and pain on an innocent animal for food and they are not advanced enough to live without an extreme and old-fashioned food chain. We, however, are different.

Your whole "that's the way it is and that's the way it should be" reminds me of someone who is ignorant and refuses to accept the fact that killing an innocent animal is 100% wrong and is an abuse of our power as humans. If we "eat weaker things" why can't that be plants and other foods?

PS: Since we kill pigs, cows etc. to eat (and in many cases abuse them before we kill them) should people be allowed to kill and eat dogs and cats? Why do people get in serious trouble when people are cruel to animals that we find "favorable" but not animals like pigs and cows? That isn't fair what-so-ever. If we are against hurting animals by law, we shouldn't have a double standard for some animals and not others.

Also, do you KNOW the conditions of the slaughter yards?

[DrewM]

Those PETA people are some twisted in the head mother fuckers that is for sure.

They had a billboard here in New Orleans last year that had a kid eating a burger and underneath it said "child abuse". I kind of took offense to that.

Annimals taste good. PETA can kiss my ass.

[Inviolable]

Originally Posted by securityman1

This message has been deleted by BorgHunter. Reason: Trolling

Thats the best post in this thread.

There's room for all gods creatures, right next to my mashed potatoes.


I like cats....... I just can't eat a whole one by myself.

[mad dog]

Originally Posted by Overdose

Have you ever read about the slaughter yards in the United States? The amount of shit that gets into your food and the nasty conditions? That is anything but healthy. As for the "chemicals", well the main reason you eat meat is for protein.

Once again your speaking of mass production I am speaking of natural hunting, or small farmer. I agree some of the big dog slaughter yards are nasty, but they also use chemicals etc... the small time guy or the hunter for the most part get organic food{closest he can get anyway}. Most of the hunters I know also try to do a 1 shot kill method{of course there are those that are just plain A-holes}. None of us want to see the animal suffer.

Rice, beans and eggs. And you can take pills with things in them that you need to have a healthy diet.

Rice and beans not the same as meat. Eggs, isn't this just like killing a baby lamb, a baby animal is still a baby whether it is inside an egg or just popping out the butt of its mother.

Just because something is natural does not mean it is correct if it harms or hurts something. If you can avoid doing so why not stop it?

I don't trust any of the chemicals used in todays food production. If there is away to eat meat without using chemicals then fine but so far this just does not happen. I agree slaughter houses and such should be regulated for more humain ways to treat critters. I also think chemicals should stop being injected shoved up and feed to our food products.

[mad dog]

Originally Posted by Overdose

You are missing the point. Carnivorous animals in the wild are not advanced enough to be able to survive without inflicting harm and pain on an innocent animal for food and they are not advanced enough to live without an extreme and old-fashioned food chain. We, however, are different.

NOT

Your whole "that's the way it is and that's the way it should be" reminds me of someone who is ignorant and refuses to accept the fact that killing an innocent animal is 100% wrong and is an abuse of our power as humans. If we "eat weaker things" why can't that be plants and other foods?

I eat plants and other things but to make it a balanced diet I throw in a side of venison, chicken, fish, turtle, etc etc

Since we kill pigs, cows etc. to eat (and in many cases abuse them before we kill them) should people be allowed to kill and eat dogs and cats?

Some people allready do, what's your point

Why do people get in serious trouble when people are cruel to animals that we find "favorable" but not animals like pigs and cows? That isn't fair what-so-ever. If we are against hurting animals by law, we shouldn't have a double standard for some animals and not others.

I don't know where your from but up here in farm land if a farmer is mistreating his livestock his a** is going to jail. I think your trying to form a conclusion off of one bad slaughter house. With this type of thought all white men must be horrible just look at the Son Of Sam?????????

Also, do you KNOW the conditions of the slaughter yards?

Do you know the conditions of some day care centers, old folks homes, schools? I don't think anyone here is promoting animal abuse, I also think everyone would agree animal abuse is bad thing. Your confussing eating meat with beating bamby.

[Overdose]

To Mad Dog

Once again your speaking of mass production I am speaking of natural hunting, or small farmer. I agree some of the big dog slaughter yards are nasty, but they also use chemicals etc... the small time guy or the hunter for the most part get organic food{closest he can get anyway}. Most of the hunters I know also try to do a 1 shot kill method{of course there are those that are just plain A-holes}. None of us want to see the animal suffer.
How does killing a wild animal in one shot make it anymore justified? Furthermore how does it make it morally correct to kill an innocent creature who may have young to take care of and who could actually provide food to another animal who actually needs meat for its diet.

Rice and beans not the same as meat. Eggs, isn't this just like killing a baby lamb, a baby animal is still a baby whether it is inside an egg or just popping out the butt of its mother.
Rice and beans provide tons of protein and if eaten in large amounts can give you the proper amount needed to be healthy. Not to mention you can take pills for more protein if you need it. As for the whole "an egg is an animal", well, since it cannot feel anything and hasn't developed into a living and breating creature it isn't in my opinion an animal.

I eat plants and other things but to make it a balanced diet I throw in a side of venison, chicken, fish, turtle, etc etc
Meat is the easy way to make it a balanced diet. There are other ways, I can assure you.

Some people allready do, what's your point
I believe I was obviously talking about the United States. But in Vietnam they eat dog (not because it is legal) but because they are so poor they have to steal dogs from dog owners to get food. I just talked about this with my friend who is studying in the United States from Vietnam. But that is all beside the point. Why do we hold some animals at a higher level than others? If we are going to say as a society killing a dog and or abusing a dog is wrong why don't we hold all other animals to the same standard?

I don't know where your from but up here in farm land if a farmer is mistreating his livestock his a** is going to jail. I think your trying to form a conclusion off of one bad slaughter house. With this type of thought all white men must be horrible just look at the Son Of Sam?????????
Isn't killing mistreating?

Do you know the conditions of some day care centers, old folks homes, schools? I don't think anyone here is promoting animal abuse, I also think everyone would agree animal abuse is bad thing. Your confussing eating meat with beating bamby.
Wrong. Killing is abuse. Taking an innocent life away from this planet (when we could use other methods for our diet) is incorrect.

[mad dog]

1st off roll another one

Originally Posted by Overdose

How does killing a wild animal in one shot make it anymore justified? Furthermore how does it make it morally correct to kill an innocent creature who may have young to take care of and who could actually provide food to another animal who actually needs meat for its diet.

A little too much sucking on the ole peace pipe hey? If an animal needs to die so another{human etc} can live, isn't one clean shot or quick knock on the head better then beating it or slowly killing it? When I hunt I make sure there are no young to be taken care of. Most farmers hunters etc... will not kill a mother with a baby. You really don't know much about hunting farming or being a homesteader do you?

Rice and beans provide tons of protein and if eaten in large amounts can give you the proper amount needed to be healthy.

still not the same like I allready pointed out.

Not to mention you can take pills for more protein if you need it.

Once again you're back on the chemical trian which is not the healthiest way to live.

As for the whole "an egg is an animal", well, since it cannot feel anything and hasn't developed into a living and breating creature it isn't in my opinion an animal.

Contradicting your little disney land aren't you?

Meat is the easy way to make it a balanced diet. There are other ways, I can assure you.

NOPE, not as healthy, nice try.

I believe I was obviously talking about the United States. But in Vietnam they eat dog (not because it is legal) but because they are so poor they have to steal dogs from dog owners to get food. I just talked about this with my friend who is studying in the United States from Vietnam. But that is all beside the point.

Korea has dog farms. And you'd be surprised as to what people eat in this country.

Why do we hold some animals at a higher level than others? If we are going to say as a society killing a dog and or abusing a dog is wrong why don't we hold all other animals to the same standard?

{A} I don't hold one animal higher then another not even the human race.

{B}Meat is meat but what is the sense in killing a dog for one meal when you could kill a buffalo for many?

{C} your confussing abuse with needs, You really need to try and seperate the 2 or you'll never understand the big picture.

Isn't killing mistreating?

Once again see part C, you really need to get more mature on this issue, your trying to compare eggs too bricks it doesn't work.

Wrong. Killing is abuse. Taking an innocent life away from this planet (when we could use other methods for our diet) is incorrect.

WRONG killing for food is not abuse, quit mixing pudding with salt it taste bitter and will make you throw up.
Once again show me the healthier supplement for a piece of organic meat? can not be done, maybe some day but as of right now there isn't anything.

OD;
I understand your point about abuse, but mixing abuse and food doesn't solve the abuse problem. IF you have a real argument about meat as being bad then fine? Talking about Joe Bob kicking his dog and screwing his lamb has nothing to do with those of us that hunt ethically. Like I have said over and over seperate the 2 and maybe we could both learn from each other???????

[Frogger]

Man is an animal just like the rest of the animals in nature and nature is, "red in tooth and claw". Sure I could eat tons of beans and rice and get the protein I need. I don't do it because meat taste good. Man is meant to be an omnivore. That means we eat anything edible and animals are highly edible.

[Overdose]

To Mad Dog

If an animal needs to die so another{human etc} can live, isn't one clean shot or quick knock on the head better then beating it or slowly killing it?
Please tell me what human in the United States of America needs to hunt an animal or eat an animal to survive? With all the programs and services built to help poor Americans who cannot afford food, there is no American who couldn't survive without eating meat.

When I hunt I make sure there are no young to be taken care of. Most farmers hunters etc... will not kill a mother with a baby. You really don't know much about hunting farming or being a homesteader do you?
I love that you are trying to appear oh so much more intelligent about this issue then I am. If anything you appear bias. Anyway. How do you know for sure that the mother does not have a child? And just because it may not have a child, how does that make it justified? You are still killing an innocent creature for almost no reason at all. I highly doubt most hunters kill because they have to this day in age. I'm willing to bet most kill for the satisfaction they get out of hurting a living create and then eat it to "justify" their sick satisfaction.

still not the same like I allready pointed out.
You pointed out nothing. Humans eat meat mostly for the protein or the taste. But you can get protein from pills, rice, beans and eggs. And to eat it for the taste and to justify it because it "tastes good" is sick and wrong.

Once again you're back on the chemical trian which is not the healthiest way to live.
You can get rice, beans and eggs that have not been tampered with.

Contradicting your little disney land aren't you?
It isn't a contradiction in the least. An egg isn't a living, breathing animal that has feeling. You are comparing apples and oranges.

NOPE, not as healthy, nice try.
Prove it. Just saying it does not make it so. Actually prove it. Because I know for sure I can go to the store and buy rice, beans and eggs that are 100% healthy. You are just being arrogant. You don't want to admit that you can be just as healthy by eating other things besides meat.


{A} I don't hold one animal higher then another not even the human race.
Really? So you'd be okay if I killed a dog for food? And if you think that is correct then you are one sick man.

{B}Meat is meat but what is the sense in killing a dog for one meal when you could kill a buffalo for many?
Both are hurting an innocent animal. Who are you to take the lives of any innocent animal when you don't need it to survive.

{C} your confussing abuse with needs, You really need to try and seperate the 2 or you'll never understand the big picture.
What needs are you talking about? You say that eating rice, beans and eggs isn't as "healthy" but you haven't proved it with any sufficent evidence. It is a known fact that rice, beans and eggs have protein and you can get them in organic form. Not to mention it is a fact there are pills for protein. Which makes it 100% healthy. And you aren't harming or hurting an innocent creature in the process.


WRONG killing for food is not abuse, quit mixing pudding with salt it taste bitter and will make you throw up.
But killing for food you don't need to survive and lead a healthy life is wrong.

Once again show me the healthier supplement for a piece of organic meat? can not be done, maybe some day but as of right now there isn't anything.
Lets just say (for the sake of the debate) there isn't anything healthier. Does that reason alone (leading the healthiest life) outweigh an innocent creatures LIFE?

[Napsterbater]

With all the programs and services built to help poor Americans who cannot afford food, there is no American who couldn't survive without eating meat.

While true, this is a little disingenuous. I could survive without lots of things, shelter, a job, a car. Americans can definately stand to cut back their meat intake in a huge way, there is no real argument that we should all be vegetarians. The moral argument falls to moral relativism, something that you should be quite acquainted with, being a gay person.

[Overdose]

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

While true, this is a little disingenuous. I could survive without lots of things, shelter, a job, a car. Americans can definately stand to cut back their meat intake in a huge way, there is no real argument that we should all be vegetarians. The moral argument falls to moral relativism, something that you should be quite acquainted with, being a gay person.

I suppose I may be missing what you are exactly saying. Living without a job and shelter usually hurts you and the people who are close to you. And it harms our society growing. However, living without meat only benefits creatures since they aren't being slaughtered.

[Napsterbater]

So does eating meat. A person who is insufficiently knowledgeable about nutrition science attempting to eat a vegetarian diet will not get all the nutrients that an unregulated diet will, leading to fatigue and poor performance. Not everybody has the time or the patience to regulate their diet and nutrition to that extent. It isn't enough to provide the information and expect people to use it. Attempting to enforce a vegetarian diet is also highly unfeasible.

My argument, essentially, is one of expediency. It is orders of magnitude more expediant (at least it would be if expediancy could be measured) to get protein from animals than it would be to reconfigure our economy to eschew the production and slaughter of animals.

That isn't to say we cannot engineer a social shift towards less meat eaten so that we can avoid animal manufacturing plants where they are treated horribly. But animals bred in captivity often have better lives than they would have fending for themselves in the wild. The better the life, the better tasting and more expensive the meat. But the societal inertia of meat-eating culture is too great to completely overcome.

[Overdose]

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

So does eating meat. A person who is insufficiently knowledgeable about nutrition science attempting to eat a vegetarian diet will not get all the nutrients that an unregulated diet will, leading to fatigue and poor performance. Not everybody has the time or the patience to regulate their diet and nutrition to that extent. It isn't enough to provide the information and expect people to use it. Attempting to enforce a vegetarian diet is also highly unfeasible.

When did I ever say it was feasible?

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

My argument, essentially, is one of expediency. It is orders of magnitude more expediant (at least it would be if expediancy could be measured) to get protein from animals than it would be to reconfigure our economy to eschew the production and slaughter of animals.

Your argument has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm simply saying it is wrong not that it will stop or that it is likely it will ever stop.

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

But the societal inertia of meat-eating culture is too great to completely overcome.

Sure, I've never denied that. I've just said it was wrong and that if people wanted to with the resources they have at their fingers they could change. Why did you even bother posting any of this towards me in the first place? I never denied any of the things you are saying.

[Napsterbater]

I never denied any of the things you are saying.

Okay.

I'm simply saying it is wrong

An argument that falls victim to relative morality. You can say that it is horrible, you can say it is disgusting, you can say it is reprehensible. All these things rely on human emotion and are demonstrable. You cannot say it is wrong. That relys on extra-human judgement. Such a thing cannot be proven, because to prove it you must first prove morality.

[Overdose]

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

An argument that falls victim to relative morality. You can say that it is horrible, you can say it is disgusting, you can say it is reprehensible. All these things rely on human emotion and are demonstrable. You cannot say it is wrong. That relys on extra-human judgement. Such a thing cannot be proven, because to prove it you must first prove morality.

So, after everything I say I should say "In my moral opinion"...? Seriously, stop playing semantics. Obvioiusly it was what I viewed as morally incorrect because it was under my user-name. Plus, I don't think anyone can argue very well that killing an innocent, living creature (for a reason that is out-dated) would win the debate over morality. Seriously, when did I ever deny that what was "wrong" or "right" in a moral sense wasn't left up to each person's opinion? But how can you honestly, in all reality justify killing an innocent creature, when you don't actually have to kill this creature to survive? And if you want to debate morality with me, fine. If anyone wants to fine. But that wasn't what I have been talking about through this entire thread.

[Napsterbater]

But how can you honestly, in all reality justify killing an innocent creature?

I don't have to, because it is not wrong. Hunting and killing are part of the natural order, and we cannot help but participate in it. Foolish moral arguments exacerbate the problem, they do not solve it.

So, after everything I say I should say "In my moral opinion"...?

No, because that is already implied. What you should do is stop pushing that morality onto others, especially when you don't have a rational solution to the problem. All it does is breed resentment.

But that wasn't what I have been talking about through this entire thread.

That has been all you have been talking about. The morality of killing innocent animals for food. That you would push your own moral position onto others illustrates that you don't accept or understand the relativeness of morality.

[Inviolable]

People are on top of the food chain, so why arent more people realizing this and making an effort to better humanity?

One thing I can tell you, saving animals and pointing out how inhumane slaughter houses are dont do a thing.
Helping people to understand how important life is, does.

[Frogger]

I can respect OD for not wanting to kill animals and to not want to eat meat although he admits he falls prey to human weakness and enjoys eating a good burger.

I, however, will continue eating and enjoying meat with no feelings of guilt. I will continue to hunt and fish with no feelings of guilt. Growing up my family raised 4,700 chickens for market. I would accompany my father as he killed chickens each day for the next day's sale. We also raised ducks, geese, turkeys, pigeons, and rabbits for food. In order to eat them we had to kill them. I guess I have personally killed well over 1,000 animals in my time and I lose absolutely no sleep over it.

As for OD's question about killing and eating a dog, why not? The only difference between a dog and a cow is social conventions. I have eaten ostrich, kangaroo, snake, alligator, and a host of other animals not normally considered food animals. The only thing that would stop me from eating dog would be social convention. In fact, I might just munch on a puppy burger this Fall when I stop over in Seol on my way to Australia.

Animals are food. They are meant to be eaten. They should be raised humanely and killed in as easy a manner as possible but give up meat................never.

[Napsterbater]

Helping people to understand how important life is, does.

I really don't think that will help, because too few people will listen. The only real thing that can happen is what already does happen, small interest groups attempting to impose their will on the majority. It is possible to turn a minority into a majority, but it will only happen with luck, not with work.

[Overdose]

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

I don't have to, because it is not wrong. Hunting and killing are part of the natural order, and we cannot help but participate in it. Foolish moral arguments exacerbate the problem, they do not solve it.

The whole "natural order" means nothing to me. Humans today are anything but natural and we have evolved into advanced creatures who do not need to be apart of the food chain.

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

No, because that is already implied. What you should do is stop pushing that morality onto others, especially when you don't have a rational solution to the problem. All it does is breed resentment.

Of course I'm pushing morality onto others here, this is a forum for people to have debates. We are here to discuss morality, politics, religion and all sorts of issues. I am taking a stand and I am leaving it open for people to debate my stance. We talk about morality on allforums a lot. An example of this would be gay marriage. The reason the "moral" point against gay marriage does not work is because gay marriage harms and hurts no one. Killing animals for eating meat does harm and hurt living creatures. I'm only pushing my stance on people who want to hear it. And I'd assume you all want to hear my stance or other people's stance on issues because you are, afterall, apart of this forum. I don't, however go around like PETA and tell people what they are doing is wrong. So, I'm really not "pushing" my moral opinion on people who don't want to hear or talk about it. And I have given a good soultion to eating meat several times throughout this thread. I suggest you read it over.

Originally Posted by Napsterbater

That has been all you have been talking about. The morality of killing innocent animals for food. That you would push your own moral position onto others illustrates that you don't accept or understand the relativeness of morality.

When did I ever say we should make eating meat illegal because of morality? That is yet another difference with the gay marriage moral debate and what we are having here. Those people are pushing their moral opinions on others by passing laws. I'm not forcing my moral opinion on anyone. I'm simply debating it on a place for debate. I'm not taking it as far as the legal system, the streets or harassment.