Genesis 11

6: And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. 7Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech."

This is like some sick twisted little child? Not a caring God.

He looked down, realised his people were working together as one to build something beautiful and he deliberatly goes down there to make it harder/impossible?

Thats Cruel in my view, really cruel.

You gotta think outside the prayer book on this one:

God doesn'e really care about you in the sense that God would come down and put your leg in a splint.

God provides lions with antelopes and although the one antelope is cursing God, antelopes as a whole benefit from the activity of the lion.

The order of the Universe is perfect.

As far as the Bible is concerned, you have to read it as poetry. It has a meaning. The literal translation is not very accurate because you don't know if the word they translated as "language" could also have been translated as "culture" or whatever.

Let me take a stab at interpreting this "cruel" story:

Now that all humans can communicate perfectly with each other around the world, are we building something beautiful? (NO, WE ARE KILLING EVERYTHING AND THREATENING THE EARTH ITSELF WITH NUCLEAR WINTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

God knows better than we do.

The people that youre talking about were trying to build a tower into Heaven. They were defying God. He had a right to stop them.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
The people that youre talking about were trying to build a tower into Heaven. They were defying God. He had a right to stop them.
Was God afraid that they'd succeed?

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
The people that youre talking about were trying to build a tower into Heaven. They were defying God. He had a right to stop them.

What a crock of shit, thats a pure impossibility, and for this post ill assume God does exist he would have known that such a mortal object of wood & stone could never have 'Reached' heaven.

Heaven isnt floating just above the clouds in some physical form now is it!!

Jere please explain?

Stair way to heaven, kind of sounds like a song.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
The people that youre talking about were trying to build a tower into Heaven. They were defying God. He had a right to stop them.

That's hilarious!!!!

These people 3000+ years ago were building a tower into heaven? How tall was it going to be? Obviously way taller than the highest building we have now.

The space shuttle orbits at 200 miles up, no heaven between here and there, so we can assume a building higher than 200 miles up.

God had to stop them...

That response just makes me shake my head in disbelief.

Just some mythical 3000 year old attempt to explain why people speak different languages and speak of man's vanity at the same time.
Ignorant man attempting to explain the unknown. Bed time stories.

Was God afraid that they'd succeed?

We don't know if god was afraid in the context. But if you take the passage literally, then it does contain "And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them." So if the humans were to build a tower into heaven, they could get it done.

But where does it say that that's what they were trying to do?

Dan's is a very objective interpretation. In the context it makes much sense.

If God wanted to stop guys from building a tower that went all the way to heaven, I think God would've killed the space program as well, and there are also airlines that travel much higher than people can breathe.

God created us....who are we to question what he does? Many things probably dont make sense to us, but we are mere humans and he knows all and is a GOD.....go figure we don't understand.

humility is such a lacking phase of humans these days.....

Originally posted by Decka
God created us....who are we to question what he does? Many things probably dont make sense to us, but we are mere humans and he knows all and is a GOD.....go figure we don't understand.

humility is such a lacking phase of humans these days.....
--------------------------------------------------------

A dog was created to do all that he can do, so was man.

Originally posted by Decka
God created us....who are we to question what he does? Many things probably dont make sense to us, but we are mere humans and he knows all and is a GOD.....go figure we don't understand.

humility is such a lacking phase of humans these days.....

Which is you saying, "Stop questioning it because your just going to prove its all wrong and then ill have to live my own life without my faith filled crutches and well thats just plain rude"

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Which is you saying, "Stop questioning it because your just going to prove its all wrong and then ill have to live my own life without my faith filled crutches and well thats just plain rude"

no.... thats the thing about God.... you cant PROVE he's there, but you cant prove he's NOT there either...so when you see you can "prove its all wrong"....well thats just BS.

I have tons of proof in my life that God exists....i guess its every man's own journey....

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Was God afraid that they'd succeed?

Not at all. It was because of their motives that He stopped them. They were trying to exalt themselves as God.

Originally posted by the J Man
Not at all. It was because of their motives that He stopped them. They were trying to exalt themselves as God.

So why did God create us in his image and then slap us down when we tried to do something like him?

Why is the Old Testament filled with examples of God punishing men for their mistakes? Didn't this omniscient god forsee all the mistakes we'd make? Why didn't he just give all of our mistakes and imperfections a miss, and proceed right to creating a creature that was more perfect?

creating something perfect isn't much fun now is it.

Originally posted by Decka
creating something perfect isn't much fun now is it.

Ahh...so God's just having fun with us....I get it.

Which goes back to my original point of GOD being some sick little kid with a magnifying glass and we are the ant.

If it turns out to be real im siding with the Devil, at least you know what your getting with him, and not this two faced shit that God plays.

O.K., lets all meet somewhere and build a tower and see what happens.
I doubt that during the time period mentioned in the Bible they could build a tower much more than 50 or 100 ft. thats 5- 10 stories.
Shouldn't take long. :)

creating something perfect isn't much fun now is it.

Sounds like HEAVEN to me.

If it turns out to be real im siding with the Devil, at least you know what your getting with him, and not this two faced shit that God plays.
Well, there's got to be a reason why Lucifer rebelled. He was God's favorite. I think I'll just stick this in my signature:
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge."
Mikhail A. Bakunin

geez...i didnt think my post would be taken so seriously......

you can call God "sick" and all these names...but i'm just saying you are biting the hands that fed you. I wasn't aware we had rights that Gods have to adhere to when dealing with humans....if you know them please tell me lol.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
O.K., lets all meet somewhere and build a tower and see what happens.
I doubt that during the time period mentioned in the Bible they could build a tower much more than 50 or 100 ft. thats 5- 10 stories.
Shouldn't take long. :)

Unity can get people a long ways Dan. Even if their intentions are bad.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk


If it turns out to be real im siding with the Devil, at least you know what your getting with him, and not this two faced shit that God plays. [/B]

Yep. Satan literally hates your guts. He acts like he loves you, but all he wants to do is lead you to eternal destruction. He is the father of all lies and there is no truth in him.

Originally posted by the J Man
Yep. Satan literally hates your guts. He acts like he loves you, but all he wants to do is lead you to eternal destruction. He is the father of all lies and there is no truth in him.

Sounds like my ex...:D

Originally posted by the J Man
Yep. Satan literally hates your guts. He acts like he loves you, but all he wants to do is lead you to eternal destruction. He is the father of all lies and there is no truth in him.

Theres no Truth in God either, nor if I look at my life, mum leaving Dad getting ill, does he particulary like me either. The leading me to eternal destruction bit is you just speaking as the puppet masters above you pull the strings.

God is Truth. That's a part of His "definition." Everything that He does is by default good, just, true, holy, good, etc.
Also, just because bad things happen to you, that's no reason to blame God. May be later you will realize that it was actually for the better. How can we, who are limited by our physical body and present time, question God who is above time and space?
In a sense God does pull the strings, but not our strings. This is because we have free will. If He would control us, then there is NO point. None.

He does control you!! You live your life in a certain way, doing certain things because he has told you to. That is control! You wont kill someone, you wont do bad things, you wont seek to harm a person etc, all because he (and why we keep assuming he is male i dont know) has told you so, THATS CONTROL!

And thus your right... THERE IS NO POINT.

I wish to fuck that they hadnt mentioned Heaven in the Bible, completely missed it out. Since id love to see how many christians would be up for worshiping their lord if they didnt know they would get this big reward at the end of it.

Probably not many. I mean, what's the point then, if when you die, you just dissapear? Then just live it up!
And again, everybody has a choice to follow God or not, to obey His commandments or not, not do what He wants or not. It's choices all over. I willingly submit myself to God, out of pure simple will. That's NOT control, that's free will.

Probably not many. I mean, what's the point then, if when you die, you just dissapear? Then just live it up!

Which goes to prove that your one of the millions who mentally cant accept death. I can.

That's NOT control, that's free will. Yes you choose to be under the control of God.

I choose to be under HP, the control when i start and when i go home, the control what i wear to work. To be fair they control most of my waking life at the moment. Im not ashamed of this or anything, it suits me as I get paid and so I get something from this.

You are under control of GOD so that you get a pass to Heaven, simple as.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Probably not many. I mean, what's the point then, if when you die, you just dissapear? Then just live it up!
Exactly! I plan to enjoy myself as much as possible while I'm alive.

Now the whole earth had one language and few words. And as men migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. And they said to one another, 'Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.' And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.' And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the sons of men had built. And the LORD said, 'Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.' So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city.' Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth." (Genesis 11:1-9)


It would be nice if you would include the whole text that you are refering to, not just the part that suits your point of view.

God confused the language of the people because they were becoming too concerned with Earthly prosperity and wanted to 'make a name for themselves'. We, as Christians, believe that we are here to serve God and spread his word. Our time on this Earth is short in comparison to our eternal home and while there are human demands that we must take care of and therefore must work, or earn an income to support ourselves and our families, our main focus should be on God and serving him.

Hope this helps lessen the confusion.

Lorrie

J Man,

Our awesome God gave us free will. That's why we're human.

He's given us the ability to make choices, just as we give our children choices. As parents, we provide them with information and bring them up the best way we know how, however, they ultimately will make their own decisions, just as our heavenly Father allows us to make our own decisions.

Isn't it wonderful to know that we have a God who allows us to make mistakes, but forgives us for those mistakes just as we parents forgive our children?

Lorrie

Your some invisible gods lapbitch, congratulations to you, Im not.

Also

God confused the language of the people because they were becoming too concerned with Earthly prosperity and wanted to 'make a name for themselves'.
give me the exact bible reference explaining that.

Originally posted by lorrieann
Isn't it wonderful to know that we have a God who allows us to make mistakes, but forgives us for those mistakes just as we parents forgive our children?
If not accepting Jesus is a mistake, why would he not forgive me? Why would he send me to hell? Is this the equivalent of a parent getting fed up with a kid and sending him off to boot camp or something?

Originally posted by lorrieann

Isn't it wonderful to know that we have a God who allows us to make mistakes, but forgives us for those mistakes just as we parents forgive our children?


Bullshit, Those people who built the tower made a mistake so to show his O so loving forgiveness, he makes them all speak different languages.

Thats outright cruel.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
If not accepting Jesus is a mistake, why would he not forgive me? Why would he send me to hell? Is this the equivalent of a parent getting fed up with a kid and sending him off to boot camp or something?

:)

Originally posted by lorrieann
Now the whole earth had one language and few words. And as men migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. And they said to one another, 'Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.' And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.' And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the sons of men had built. And the LORD said, 'Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.' So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city.' Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth." (Genesis 11:1-9)



Dont suppose it tells what languages were created does it?

No, the Bible doesn't tell us what languages were created due to the buidling of the Tower of Babel, but we know today that languages build off of each other, so it is probably safe to assume (and I choose that word carefully) that the older languages were directly from this incident, such as Latin.

These are my thoughts though, I have nothing to back it up.

Lorrie

Originally posted by lorrieann


These are my thoughts though, I have nothing to back it up.

Lorrie

We actually get this alot from the right wing christians not that they admit it.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lorrieann


These are my thoughts though, I have nothing to back it up.

Lorrie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



We actually get this alot from the right wing christians not that they admit it.

Use the quote in its full context, please. I was refering to the origin of languages.

Lorrie

Why? We dont get alot of people talking about the origin of the language so it wouldnt have made any sense to quote the rest of it.

Lorrie, I'm waiting for a reply to my post...

First of all you can't call God cruel, because He is not. As I said before, whatever He does is good by default, and also. who are we to judge Him or His actions.
Second, if you live your life up (meaning you do all the lewd things), then you will most likely go to hell. I'm sorry to say that.
Third, let's look at the capital punishment. If a man does something REALLY wrong he is killed, meaning forever banished from society. God is somewhat like that. If you screw up very much, then He will banish your from the "society" of heaven. If you didn't accept God, why should He accept you? Sure He is good, but He is also just. Remember that His mercy will not be give to all, for not all deserve it.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Which goes to prove that your one of the millions who mentally cant accept death. I can.

Yes you choose to be under the control of God.

I choose to be under HP, the control when i start and when i go home, the control what i wear to work. To be fair they control most of my waking life at the moment. Im not ashamed of this or anything, it suits me as I get paid and so I get something from this.

You are under control of GOD so that you get a pass to Heaven, simple as.
Lokideviluk, look at your last sentense and your first one. Do you see a contradiction? Did you even understand what I said?
Everybody has a choice: to follow God or not to. Then there is also a choice of degree of submission. That's a CHOICE. I do submit to God so I can go to heaven, but that's my choice isn't it?

I think you are trying to say that if the question is between heaven and hell, then the people don't really have a choice. Well, the question is like that, yet look around you, so many people choose hell.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Sure He is good, but He is also just.
My ass. An eternity of torture because I dared to use my brain and logic? That's incredibly cruel.

Ah! You just can't say that. It's like saying that my red sofa is blue. It's not. Everything that God does is good and just by default. Who are we to say otherwise.
He sees and knows everything that was, is, and will be in all places. We can't even be sure what we had for lunch yesterday.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Everything that God does is good and just by default. Who are we to say otherwise?
We are people with free will and the ability to question...both of which you claim he gave us, by the way. That is who we are to question God. If we weren't to question him, he would not have given us the ability.

Ok, you have a good point there. We do need to question God and why He does stuff. I too don't understand Him or His actions sometimes. And sometimes it's just "WOW! What was that for?!"
But we have to understand that we will never know or understand Him, He is a mystery.
Also, just because you have any ability to do something, doesn't mean you should do it.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
But we have to understand that we will never know or understand Him, He is a mystery.
How curious, that is my point of view, only not taken to quite my extreme. As an agnostic, I say that a god would be beyond our abilities to comprehend, and thus it's silly to claim that such-and-such a god does exist. It's impossible to know.
Also, just because you have any ability to do something, doesn't mean you should do it.
Quite true. But I don't see any ethical dilemma in merely questioning something.

Well, we have the Bible. Why should we believe it? The answer is--faith. It's, as I came to realized, the only answer there is. Simple faith.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
First of all you can't call God cruel, because He is not.

Yes he is, as demonstrated over and over in the bible.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
As I said before, whatever He does is good by default, and also. who are we to judge Him or His actions..

Which basically means, God cant do anything evil because if he did we would attribute it to the Devil anyway and God would get off.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Second, if you live your life up (meaning you do all the lewd things), then you will most likely go to hell. I'm sorry to say that...

Ah shit, did no one tell you? If at anytime between now and death i embrace jesus, no matter what ive done I get my pass to Heaven, beautiful how that works isnt it.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Third, let's look at the capital punishment. If a man does something REALLY wrong he is killed, meaning forever banished from society. God is somewhat like that. If you screw up very much, then He will banish your from the "society" of heaven. If you didn't accept God, why should He accept you? Sure He is good, but He is also just. Remember that His mercy will not be give to all, for not all deserve it.

That would also be bullshit, since its been mentioned hundreds of times on here (mostly by Jere) and quoted from the bible, that if we simply embrace Jesus no matter what weve done, killed, raped, abused etc we will go to heaven. And lets face the facts here, im willing to bet a pretty substantial portion of the deathrow inmates found god pretty sharpish so youll be in Heaven with all those wonderful people.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Well, we have the Bible. Why should we believe it? The answer is--faith. It's, as I came to realized, the only answer there is. Simple faith.

Well its not the only answer is it.

Originally posted by STOpandthink
Well, we have the Bible. Why should we believe it? The answer is--faith. It's, as I came to realized, the only answer there is. Simple faith.
Blind faith is the sign of an undisciplined mind. At least people like Jere try to give a reason to believe in the Bible -- he's posted numerous attempts to try to prove prophecies in the Bible that supposedly have come true. What I want to know is, why should anyone have faith in the Bible over, say, the Qu'ran? Or the Satanic Bible? Or Harry Potter?

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Which basically means, God cant do anything evil because if he did we would attribute it to the Devil anyway and God would get off.

No so. Devil is simply a fallen angel, who is, believe it or not, used to do some good in this world. God uses everything for good means, but sometimes we are too blind to see it.
Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Ah shit, did no one tell you? If at anytime between now and death i embrace jesus, no matter what ive done I get my pass to Heaven, beautiful how that works isnt it.

Well, I meant if you don't repent. If you do, then I am sure Christ will forgive you. And this limitless mercy of God is beautiful.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
That would also be bullshit, since its been mentioned hundreds of times on here (mostly by Jere) and quoted from the bible, that if we simply embrace Jesus no matter what weve done, killed, raped, abused etc we will go to heaven. And lets face the facts here, im willing to bet a pretty substantial portion of the deathrow inmates found god pretty sharpish so youll be in Heaven with all those wonderful people.

Are you implying that those people who were killed by our justice system will go to heaven? That's absurd.
Also, everybody who is in heaven will be a wonderful person. No doubt about it.

Also, faith is the only answer. I can't prove my believes, I can't do anything, but just give testimony of my faith. What else?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Blind faith is the sign of an undisciplined mind. At least people like Jere try to give a reason to believe in the Bible -- he's posted numerous attempts to try to prove prophecies in the Bible that supposedly have come true. What I want to know is, why should anyone have faith in the Bible over, say, the Qu'ran? Or the Satanic Bible? Or Harry Potter?
Undisciplined mind? How about the strength of hope, determination, and free will. Do you think it's so easy to just say: "Yup, I believe that, and I will follow this doctorine and let it guide my life?"
I am happy for Jere that he tries to convince people, and I do not necessarily say we shouldn't. It's just...you can refute anything that I throw at you. If you accept the Bible, the prophecies did come true and that adds to its credibility, but if you don't, well, what can I do? I don't have hard evidence that Jesus lived or that Jesus died or that Bible wasn't written by a crazy lunatic with a tons of free time on his hands. I simply can't PROVE anything. Nevertheless, here I am, saying that I still believe the Bible.
Why not anything else? Because the Bible makes sense and provides many answers. I suppose so does Qu'ran...I accept God and from that standpoint I see that I am right. How about that? You don't accept God, so from your standpoint I am wrong. Makes sense? If you would accept God, Christ, and the Bible, you would see that it is the absolute truth, but I guess you can't just <i>accept</i> it, it takes faith.

there isnt html on here you have to use the [ ] brackets instead

Originally posted by STOpandthink

Are you implying that those people who were killed by our justice system will go to heaven? That's absurd.



WHY?

They are sitting there with nothing at all to do, most likely feeling shitty about their lives. THE only thing they have to look forward to is heaven so im willing to bet that a good 80% found god and by your words, that means they are now in heaven.

The worst people in this world will all be sitting in heaven because of Jesus. What a great saviour he is.

Ok, let's suppose that 80% in fact repented and asked Christ for forgiveness. I am sure He forgave them (at least the ones, who were trully sorry), and accepted them in the Kingdom of Heaven. What's the problem? They are Christians now, and who really cares who they were. I don't. If they are good enough for Christ, they are good enough for me.
Also, they can't be the worst, because they repented. The worst person is the one who sinned and didn't repent.
I advise you to read Luke 23:38-43. This clearly demonstrates what you are talking about and should answer all your questions about this matter.