A certain post has now prompted a growing spurt of interest in me to find out exactly how many Pro Religion (as in you have embraced a certain religion fully/ practice said religion) or non religious(Atheists and those on the fence etc, havent embraced religon)

Im not tying any religions down, so if you have embraced Islam, Christianty or any specific religion then choose that.

Also please post saying you have voted and display what your situation is :)

Thanks guys
Ryan

Now I'm curious to know what post ;) prompted this thread of yours. I guess words do have a strong influence.

I voted yes, of course.
I guess most members know me as someone who's strongly attached to her faith; Islam.

Hey what about you? I'm guessing you're the one who voted "no"..?

Yes, I dont believe in any God and when i die i will be put in the ground and rot, eventually becomming part of the ground and thus part of the earth.

One of my freinds is really stuck on the concept of Gaia and the energy that is formed through the earth, as in the whole "mother earth" concept. If i was to believe anything id believe that, since your body gets fed back into the earth to help run the planet which is a nice thought to me.

I dont even believe in the 'soul' lol :) so yeah

i voted "no."

i'm not anti-religion, i'm just not religious.

I voted no. I have not embraced any of mans religions (methods of worship).

I believe that a person can believe in a Supreme Force without a religion.

I think I inspired this little thing to some extent.

i voted yes....

do you think people don't embrace religion because it makes them look bad on earth? Religion isn't exactly the "cool" thing to do......

Absolutely Decka!

Pride is a deadly sin....and a great temptation device for the Devil.

God's word says to not be of this world.

I vote no. I have come to the conclusion a while back that religion/worship is in essence based on personal preferance. No religion is better or truer than another.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Absolutely Decka!

Pride is a deadly sin....and a great temptation device for the Devil.

God's word says to not be of this world.
Without the two sins of pride and greed, capitalism does not exist.

I voted no. I do not believe in an all powerfull entity with an agenda.

I voted "yes"

I was raised a Christian, but I am very attracted to science which led me to denounce Christianity.

During my search for true Religion I became enamored with Zen Bhuddism. I rarely meditate formally by sitting in Lotus position and stilling my mind, by I do use brething excersises to keep my sanity at those pivotal moments in life.

I realized eventually that I am culturally Christian no matter what else I study (if someone was shooting at me I would be behind something praying to Jesus), so I threw myself wholeheartedly back into the Church.

Zen has taught me that the white man's religion of Christianity is completely fucked up AND completely true. The teachings of Christ are functionally the same as the teachings of all great religious movements AND the behavior of the Church over the centuries has been functionally the same tyrrany as any beurocracy.

Everything is true. I can practice the religion of my fore-fathers and resent the fact that our original religion is lost to us because of missionaries and crusaders.

Originally posted by Ed Blank
I voted "yes"

I was raised a Christian, but I am very attracted to science which led me to denounce Christianity.

During my search for true Religion I became enamored with Zen Bhuddism. I rarely meditate formally by sitting in Lotus position and stilling my mind, by I do use brething excersises to keep my sanity at those pivotal moments in life.

I realized eventually that I am culturally Christian no matter what else I study (if someone was shooting at me I would be behind something praying to Jesus), so I threw myself wholeheartedly back into the Church.

Zen has taught me that the white man's religion of Christianity is completely fucked up AND completely true. The teachings of Christ are functionally the same as the teachings of all great religious movements AND the behavior of the Church over the centuries has been functionally the same tyrrany as any beurocracy.

Everything is true. I can practice the religion of my fore-fathers and resent the fact that our original religion is lost to us because of missionaries and crusaders. Do you hate all white people? It seems you spend a lot of time blaming the white race for everything. You have freedom to do most anything you want to in this country, yet you choose to dwell in the past on the sins of dead men. Let it go.

Yes - I consider myself religious.

do you think people don't embrace religion because it makes them look bad on earth? Religion isn't exactly the "cool" thing to do......
HA! HAHAHAHA!!! Such a minority. You poor little victims to the big wide world... Doesn't life seem so much more interesting when you think you're in the minority?

Originally posted by Blibblob
[BHA! HAHAHAHA!!! Such a minority. You poor little victims to the big wide world... Doesn't life seem so much more interesting when you think you're in the minority? [/B]


.....

i have no idea what the hell you just said lol

I had a difficult time answering this because your yes or no choice was too confining.

I would not consider myself "religious" nor do I fully embrace Christianity as the only way. It is one way. I would say rather that I am spiritual.

I certainly believe in a higher power. I believe the universe is full of mystery and wonder and is there for us to explore and reflects back to us who we are if we wish to see.

My base is Roman Catholic and it has been and always will be a good base for me. It is just a little too confining. In one way I have a problem with the limiting structure of the church. In another way I believe that limiting structure is all most people can handle and perhaps God in his infinite wisdom knew that. So we can see only as far as we are capable of seeing or as far as our fear will allow us.

I would say I was Catholic with a universal twist. Christians would likely say that is crap. That is their prerogative. The only one I have to answer to is me and God thinks I am cool. ;)

I answered no. I really have no way to say with any certainty whether there is a god or not, but I don't believe it is within the power of our senses, or our intellect, to comprehend what such a being would be like, or what it might want. To attempt to understand the god's motives or desires is pointless because such a being would be as far above us as we are from a paramecium.

I answered No to religion, similar reasons to what Vile said, but I would say that although there is no way of knowing - it does in fact seem like there is an unseen force at work.

I think God and religion are often 2 different things. Religion is just of man.

Originally posted by DrewM
I answered No to religion, similar reasons to what Vile said, but I would say that although there is no way of knowing - it does in fact seem like there is an unseen force at work.

I think God and religion are often 2 different things. Religion is just of man.

Which then allows GOD to stop being a physical human form being and become something else completely, such as Gaia etc

I think what i find difficult is as soon as i start believing in something like that it opens the floodgates to start believing in everything else.

Im wobbiling on the fence somewhat.

There is often a rush to believe in something. People grow up in religious households and have no choice, and those that don't often feel they need to settle on a belief as soon as possible.

I don't think it is important to believe firmly in anything, well certainly it is not important to attach a timescale to it - better to believe in yourself first. Then, you have a better chance to observe and formulate real ideas about how things work, rather than swallowing a Bible and suddenly becoming some chosen vessel for truth, like you bought it off the shelf. Uncertainty is like the weather - perfectly normal.

Any belief can only come from experience. It can't come from a spoon.

Of course the brain dead clones will say hurry up and believe or risk going to hell if you get hit by a bus. Strangely enough - fear works really well - it seems to drown out the red sirens and alarm bells of reason.

I am with the ancient Druids, I don't really call myself religious I would say I am spiritual. Like Drew said I also believe in a force, I don't think God is a man with a white beard and long stick looking down at us. I believe every non-man made thing carrys a force of some sort. I believe in nature and Its course of action I find it hard to believe everything is here for man kind.

Originally posted by mad dog
I am with the ancient Druids, I don't really call myself religious I would say I am spiritual. Like Drew said I also believe in a force, I don't think God is a man with a white beard and long stick looking down at us. I believe every non-man made thing carrys a force of some sort. I believe in nature and Its course of action I find it hard to believe everything is here for man kind.

Thats what i believe Gaia is based upon

Gaia, native american indians, druids, and other ancient religions I think were all somewhat close. They may not have been exact in everything they did but I think they had a much better understanding then our modern day man made religions, of course this is just my opinion based on what I have learned through the years.

somewhat off the thread for a sec. example; Take modern hunting, alot of folks hunt more for a trophy then they do for food in today society. To me this is an abuse of our animals and food source, and the wrong reason to hunt another living thing. It is funny how the human race can twist and turn things to meet there emotions at a certain time, and how they forget the real reason behind something.

Yes. I may not buy into every little thing and there are a lot of things I'm unsure about, but Christianity has been so good to me, and has benefitted so many countless people that I can forgive some of the foibles

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
, but Christianity has been so good to me,

How so?

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
Yes. I may not buy into every little thing and there are a lot of things I'm unsure about, but Christianity has been so good to me, and has benefitted so many countless people that I can forgive some of the foibles

This approach makes sense. If Christianity works for you as a path then that's a good thing. Just because there are potentially many paths, all equally valid - doesn't mean that it's in any way wrong to go down one specific path.

Religion at it's best is a framework to help somebody toward something that they couldn't reach without said framework.

Originally posted by DrewM

Religion at it's best is a framework to help somebody toward something that they couldn't reach without said framework.

Id like to edit that slightly Drew and say that

Faith at it's best is a framework to help somebody toward something that they couldn't reach without said framework.

I disagree. I think faith is much miss-understood.

Care to offer your view of it?

Faith is presented as the requirement to simply believe in something. This is convenient for religions that have become a force unto themselves, as a way to coerce people into feeling guilty for having doubts.

If a person is honest with themselves, it's an impossibility to just believe in something for the sake of it.

I think faith is a function of experience in something. For example, we may not understand something but can have faith in it. I do know why the earth orbits the sun, but I have faith that the sun will rise and set.

For example, I have faith that the right things will happen in my life, even if they don't seem agreeable at the time - I have faith that whatever happens is the right thing. I only have that view because I have personal experience to back it up. In this instance it's a faith without full understanding.

Faith can move mountains.

In response to my statement that Christianity has been good to me, the following was posted.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
How so?

There are a lot of ways to answer this, but basically it has given me a good framework within which to live my life. We may argue and quibble over some of the more arcane aspects of the Bible, but the basic message of a loving God and our duty to serve him by helping others is widespread. I've seen this worked out time and time again within the context of Christianity.

I get to interact with some great people on a daily basis. People who have given much of themselves to help me. I also get the opportunity to do this in return and that makes me feel good.

Many of the rules of Christianity have helped me too: Refraining from drunkenness, taking one day off a week (I regularly exceed this requirement:D ) and being faithful to my wife, not stealing or murdering, etc. have all helped make my life more enjoyable and have prevented a lot of pain I may have otherwise experienced.

I realize that you can get a lot of these benefits in other places, and there's a lot more to it than what I've just mentioned, but those are some of the basic ways Christianity has been good to me.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
In response to my statement that Christianity has been good to me, the following was posted.



There are a lot of ways to answer this, but basically it has given me a good framework within which to live my life. We may argue and quibble over some of the more arcane aspects of the Bible, but the basic message of a loving God and our duty to serve him by helping others is widespread. I've seen this worked out time and time again within the context of Christianity.

I get to interact with some great people on a daily basis. People who have given much of themselves to help me. I also get the opportunity to do this in return and that makes me feel good.

Many of the rules of Christianity have helped me too: Refraining from drunkenness, taking one day off a week (I regularly exceed this requirement:D ) and being faithful to my wife, not stealing or murdering, etc. have all helped make my life more enjoyable and have prevented a lot of pain I may have otherwise experienced.

I realize that you can get a lot of these benefits in other places, and there's a lot more to it than what I've just mentioned, but those are some of the basic ways Christianity has been good to me.
-------------------------------------------------

I respect what you have to say in this post uncool, the problem I have is with those that say Christianity or any other one religion is the "only way." That no entry to heaven is allowed except thru their belief system. Eternal damnation is the penalty for not believing as they do.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Do you hate all white people? It seems you spend a lot of time blaming the white race for everything. You have freedom to do most anything you want to in this country, yet you choose to dwell in the past on the sins of dead men. Let it go.

I don't hate Europeans, I'm part European (about 4 generations ago). I actually admire them/you for their/your accomplishments.

There is, however, no letting "it" go. "It" has brought my folks waaay down. I feel free to speak on "it" whenever "it" comes up. "It" is completely relevant to the discussion of organized religion because most of my anscestors practiced a religion that I will never know because of "it".

I know it would be easier if all the people who get trampled by History would just be quiet and try to fit in.

Ed, surely all the African religions from the 17 and 1800's are still there.
Everyone was not taken away. As a suggestion you might research the available information.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Ed, surely all the African religions from the 17 and 1800's are still there.
Everyone was not taken away. As a suggestion you might research the available information.

I could, of course, research all available religions that ever existed on The Continent and pick my favorite one. But which region of Africa did my genes originate in? What religion did my particular forebearers practice?

If someone four hundred years from now found out their people had been Christians in America, which of the seven dozen denomonations would they pick? Catholicism and Southern Baptist have some of the same literature but that's about it.

I could try to guess, but most people in the world KNOW exactly who their ancestors were. Black people in America lack that and it can never be regained.

Originally posted by Ed Blank
Black people in America lack that and it can never be regained. [/B]
----------------------
Then Ed in that position, (speaking only for myself), I would not worry about that which can not be changed and look toward the future. That which is established today is the heritige that is available for others tomorrow.
A developed heritige today is better than handed-down regrets of the past that can not be recovered.

Originally posted by Ed Blank

There is, however, no letting "it" go. "It" has brought my folks waaay down. I feel free to speak on "it" whenever "it" comes up. "It" is completely relevant to the discussion of organized religion because most of my anscestors practiced a religion that I will never know because of "it".

I know it would be easier if all the people who get trampled by History would just be quiet and try to fit in. Your folks are my folks. Whether hate filled, stuck in the past people like you want to admit it or not. The only differences are skin pigmentations and mannerisms to a certain extent. (which are taught, I might add)

As far as the people trampled by history goes, who hasnt been trampled by someone in history? I have more american indian blood running through my veins than anything. Talk about people "trampled by history". Yet only the black people's poor history ever seems to count. Once again, get over it.

I was raised a Baptist, but at the age of nine or so , many things that the Church preached as the absolute and unalterable truth came into direct conflict with what i was learning about science, and the scientific view of the world.

I realized --in amazement-- that either

a) Evolution was a lie...

or

b) the Bible was a lie.

It seemed clearer and clearer to me that scientists just could NOT be wrong about the age of the Earth.

Carbon14 has NO agenda.

Pi equals 3.1416, NOT "3".

Snakes cannot speak.

If the Earth's mountains were covered by water, there would be no place FOR the water to drain away.

Water cannot be magically transformed into wine.

Human beings whose brain function has ceased can NOT be made to come back to life.

As these facts became clear to me, I slowly began to question what the Church was telling me.

And now, i despise the Church for it's lies. And it is ALL based on a lie; that the supernatural exists.

The Church, and religion, and religious PEOPLE do some wonderful things, and perform some selfless acts of kindness.......and if a person is unthinking enough, they can swallow all the nonsensical and irrational claims of religion and have --for them-- a wonderfully fullfilling life in devotion to their god.

But that person has to be UNable to see thru the myriad contradictions, and they have to be UNcritical in their thinking, and they have to DENY many things that science tell us are true in order to swallow religious claims.

I cannot do it.

I did not *lose my religion*.

I lost my ignorance of the way the world works, and the way human beings came into existence.

Originally posted by Freethinker


I did not *lose my religion*.

I lost my ignorance of the way the world works, and the way human beings came into existence.

Nicely posted :)

Originally posted by Ed Blank
I could try to guess, but most people in the world KNOW exactly who their ancestors were. Black people in America lack that and it can never be regained.

Do you really think most folks in the world can trace back many years? Most Americans are mutts and I think they would have a hard time going back many years JMO.

Your post also reminded me of something. I had a real good black friend while I was in the army{i'm a white mutt}. We did alot of sh** together had alot of fun we where allways laughing. One day he went off the handle and told all the "white slave owners" he would get us. He said that any ANY problem{sick, no job, accident etc...} he ever had or would get was the whites problem/fault. I tried to talk to him but never could. I also never really found out what made him go nutz except that he got with some type of hate group. My big question has allways been WHY? Maybe you can fill in the holes some for me? Is it worth it to bring up bad emotions about the past, or would it be better to learn from the past{remember it} , and make a better tomorrow?

Look's like I was right....and I'm not proud of it.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Look's like I was right....and I'm not proud of it.

Regarding what?

There being more non religious people on here than religious people.

you are right about all those things FT....but God works miracles...so anything is possible. Hell my brother's friend was cured of cancer overnight, God healed him. Miracles still happen every day.

I agree that miracles happen.

But, miracles are NOT EXCLUSIVE to christianity.

This is the main contention. Christians tend to believe they are the only group that receive valid miracles, answers to prayer etc.

The hard core christians on this group push their head into the sand and try to ignore this, whats more they refuse to even discuss it. Take Jere for example - faced with countless valid posts with truly valid points - he ignores them all and chooses instead to post worn out one liners, but never address the valid points - ever. Why? because he cannot face facts.

I get the definite impression that those who interpret the bible literally are afraid to question their faith or why God does things. Like all it takes is one tiny moment of weakness and your place in heaven is gone because you wondered if someone could actually make a ship large enough to hold two of every animal.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
There being more non religious people on here than religious people.
-----------------------------

Should not suprise you jere, there are some pretty good thinkers on this forum. People that weigh the pros and cons of a situation.
I personally see the statistic result are showing that more people here are leaders than followers. Folks capable of making their own decisions in life without depending on handed down information.

Originally posted by Freethinker
I realized --in amazement-- that either

a) Evolution was a lie...

or

b) the Bible was a lie.
This is an overly simplistic false dichotomy. Parts of the Bible could be a lie. Some parts are most certainly allegorical, and some parts are true. We know that people have lied to support evolutionary theories before, but this does not mean evolution is a lie, either. The truth is much more complex than that.

It seemed clearer and clearer to me that scientists just could NOT be wrong about the age of the Earth.
But this does not mean that the Bible is totally a lie. Only a small portion of it even addresses this issue.

Carbon14 has NO agenda.
True, but some of the people that use it to date fossils DO have an agenda.

Snakes cannot speak.

If the Earth's mountains were covered by water, there would be no place FOR the water to drain away.

Water cannot be magically transformed into wine.

Human beings whose brain function has ceased can NOT be made to come back to life.This could all be metaphorical, as I stated before. Some of it could also be ways that primitive people described things they did not fully understand.

And now, i despise the Church for it's lies. And it is ALL based on a lie; that the supernatural exists.
You have no way of knowing this. You've really allowed yourself to engage in this hatred because you are arrogant enough to think that if you can't understand something, it must not exist.

I lost my ignorance of the way the world works, and the way human beings came into existence. Since you don't know everything about how the world works or how human beings came into existence, this statement is untrue on it's face.

Originally posted by DrewM
I agree that miracles happen.

But, miracles are NOT EXCLUSIVE to christianity.

This is the main contention. Christians tend to believe they are the only group that receive valid miracles, answers to prayer etc.

The hard core christians on this group push their head into the sand and try to ignore this, whats more they refuse to even discuss it. Take Jere for example - faced with countless valid posts with truly valid points - he ignores them all and chooses instead to post worn out one liners, but never address the valid points - ever. Why? because he cannot face facts.


I'll tell you now.

Miracles arent reserved only for Christians. Answered Prayers are not reserved only for Christians. God' love is not reserved only for Christians.

I really wish you would actually make a point that has ligitimacy behind it when you are trying to insult me in your posts.

My worn out one liners? How about your worn out verbal attacks?

You are the biggest fence rider, I think I've ever met.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
-----------------------------

Should not suprise you jere, there are some pretty good thinkers on this forum. People that weigh the pros and cons of a situation.
I personally see the statistic result are showing that more people here are leaders than followers. Folks capable of making their own decisions in life without depending on handed down information.

I see it as the willingness to be led in the wrong direction by Satan.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I see it as the willingness to be led in the wrong direction by Satan.

Jere from my reading of the bible, im inclined to think that there isnt a Devil,

God simply takes humans gives them a task and watches how the figure out how to solve it. If they seem to be completeing that task he may sometimes make it harder, or move onto something different.

Also you are a massive massive bullshit contradiction, since you say in one post "O you cant take it literally" just to swap over and say "I take it all literally"

900 year old men? Any idea why were all dying out at 80?

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I see it as the willingness to be led in the wrong direction by Satan.
You, my friend, need to take a dose of reality and humility..."Reamility"...they sell a bottle of 50 pills of Ream-o at Walgreen's for about five bucks.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I see it as the willingness to be led in the wrong direction by Satan.

Perhaps you are the one being misled by Satan. How would you know?

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Jere from my reading of the bible, im inclined to think that there isnt a Devil,

God simply takes humans gives them a task and watches how the figure out how to solve it. If they seem to be completeing that task he may sometimes make it harder, or move onto something different.

Also you are a massive massive bullshit contradiction, since you say in one post "O you cant take it literally" just to swap over and say "I take it all literally"

900 year old men? Any idea why were all dying out at 80?

Didnt you just recentally say that you just started reading the Bible?

Read Revelation and Job. Satan is frequently talked about in the bible.

Why are we dying at the age of 80 rather then 900? Oh, hmmm, Idk. Look at out world. In the time of Moses and Adam our world was beautiful without pollution and scum. Now we live on a planet where man has destroyed and exploited this planet to a brink unknown.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
You, my friend, need to take a dose of reality and humility..."Reamility"...they sell a bottle of 50 pills of Ream-o at Walgreen's for about five bucks.

Perhaps youre the one that should be doing some reality checking.

Atleast I DO believe in something.

If I'm wrong.....so be it. Even if you are right...where does it get you?

900 year old men? Any idea why were all dying out at 80?

Okay, I have a faulty memory but... there is an explanation in the bible as to why we no longer have that kind of longevity and also when it happened... grrrrrrrrrrr.......... can't remember.... someone must remember????????????

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
If I'm wrong.....so be it. Even if you are right...where does it get you?

Ahh brilliant once more we come back to the "Well im wrong tough shit, but if im right i get to go to heaven".

Jere is it true you want to go to Heaven because you believe that those in Heaven are truly blissful and in total harmony and you want that?

(I agree with that by the way, one of the few things i will agree with)

I want to go to Heaven so I can fellowship my lord and savior Jesus Christ.

By Fellowship you mean "The companionship of individuals in a congenial atmosphere and on equal terms", See judging by what happened last time anyone tried to get on equal terms with God, i cant quite see that working for you.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I'll tell you now.

Miracles arent reserved only for Christians. Answered Prayers are not reserved only for Christians. God' love is not reserved only for Christians.

I really wish you would actually make a point that has ligitimacy behind it when you are trying to insult me in your posts.

My worn out one liners? How about your worn out verbal attacks?

You are the biggest fence rider, I think I've ever met.

Jere, Iit's hard to imagine what the fence is you say I am riding. My views are crystal clear.

My point has total legitimacy.

As you now agree, miracles, anwered prayer is not only reserved for Christians, so by default - Christianity is not the only way.

Jere - it's hard to really take anything you say too seriously because you have yet to disprove the logical conclusion that you are a 17 year old kid with no life experience, wrapped up in a bunch of stuff your friends told you to believe in.

Originally posted by DrewM
Jere, Iit's hard to imagine what the fence is you say I am riding. My views are crystal clear.

My point has total legitimacy.

As you now agree, miracles, anwered prayer is not only reserved for Christians, so by default - Christianity is not the only way.

Jere - it's hard to really take anything you say too seriously because you have yet to disprove the logical conclusion that you are a 17 year old kid with no life experience, wrapped up in a bunch of stuff your friends told you to believe in.

Christianity may not be the only way to gain a miracle...but its the only way to gain acceptance to Heaven. It's that simple.

I believe the word of God. I believe in the power of God. I believe in salvation through the death of Christ...and regardless of your comments, I'm proud of it!!!

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Christianity may not be the only way to gain a miracle...but its the only way to gain acceptance to Heaven.

Jere what about all the people that died before Christianity, did they not get into Heaven?

Its embaressing to hear you talk

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Christianity may not be the only way to gain a miracle...but its the only way to gain acceptance to Heaven. It's that simple.

I believe the word of God. I believe in the power of God. I believe in salvation through the death of Christ...and regardless of your comments, I'm proud of it!!!

Jere - I don't care what you believe - I'm just trying to get you to explain it. So - no need to keep on telling us that you believe this - we know that. Just explain why and address how you personally reconcile the issues. For example - the other thread where you refuse to explain how you reconcile saying on one hand God is unconditional and other hand explaining the conditions he imposes.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Jere what about all the people that died before Christianity, did they not get into Heaven?

Things were different before Christ's death, Loki. Christ came to Earth and died for our sins. Since then, its been this way.

[/QUOTE]Its embaressing to hear you talk [/B][/QUOTE]

Why?

How can you say something like that when you are just now reading the Bible? You have no way of knowing what you accept and dont accept. So dont judge my views when all you have is your own personal agenda.

Originally posted by DrewM
Jere - I don't care what you believe - I'm just trying to get you to explain it. So - no need to keep on telling us that you believe this - we know that. Just explain why and address how you personally reconcile the issues. For example - the other thread where you refuse to explain how you reconcile saying on one hand God is unconditional and other hand explaining the conditions he imposes.

I was addressing your stupid accusation of my beliefs being based on what my friends tell me.

Maybe you should listen to your own advice, and dont post unless you know what the crap youre talking about.

Well they came from what somebody told you. Maybe there were not your friends, but they came from people.

My beliefs come from many things. The Bible is the supreme authority in my life. I also enjoy listening to and reading the views of authors, preachers, fellow christians, and other members here on AFN.

Yes, it is the supreme authority now - but who told you to take it as the supreme authority?

It's God's word handed down to man.

I put it above all else.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
It's God's word handed down to man.

I put it above all else.

And who told you to believe that? Slowly we get to the bottom of it !

I have never been forced to believe. I have never been "churched" into personal beliefs. Other's thoughs have made me rethink some beliefs, even change some.

But this specific issue, was a complete individual decision.

It was an individual decision, after being presented with information by people. So you are saying you chose it. Where does God come into that equation?

It's his word! It's fellowship with him! Prayer! Meditation on his word!

Yes but that came after you made the choice. You know the moment of choice being the moment when you apperently suspended all ability to question anything.

I made a personal choice to not question God...because he is the leader and I am the servant. He is more than I. I dont have to be tought to respect my God.

You made a bad choice. To never question is to be a robot. God didn't create us to be mindless robots.

Quite frankly - I think the reason why you don't question is it is too risky. It could destroy the nice cozy world you have built for yourself. Way too risky.

The only risk that that would create is diobeying God.

I am quite comfortable and very happy with my choice.

If your happy with it then that's all that counts really.

But, you do keep bringing back to you ie stuff like "I made a personal choice to not question God..." - although it may seem like it - the intent is not to debate your choice, it's to dabate issues and rationalle that are behind your decisions. There is no intent on my part to make you change your mind.

Having said that, I think further discussion is pointless because what you are saying is there really is no critical thinking behind your reasons - it's just something you decided sounds good and you no longer question anything, and there isn't any real basis behind it to discuss. It's just something that makes you happy & nobody can argue with that.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I made a personal choice to not question God...

Do you ever wonder why God does what he does? Or is wondering about what he does the same as questioning what he does?

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Do you ever wonder why God does what he does? Or is wondering about what he does the same as questioning what he does?

I guess that depends on what you consider "wondering."

OK, for instance - do you ever find yourself thinking, I wonder why bad things happen to good people?

I think the Devil is the cause of Bad things. He is the father of evil and the tempter in our lives.

I also think we go through adversity for good reasons.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I think the Devil is the cause of Bad things. He is the father of evil and the tempter in our lives.
So Satan crashed his car into mine? Damn, I need to get his insurance information...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jerejerebinks
[B]I think the Devil is the cause of Bad things. He is the father of evil and the tempter in our lives.
----------------------------------------

Yeh, lets don't take any responsibility for our own actions.
"The Devil made me do it."

Dumb jokes aside....

I do believe the Devil causes bad things.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Dumb jokes aside....

I do believe the Devil causes bad things.

Well it saves you from actually taking responsibility for your actions.

You get angry and shout at someone, but dont worry its not your fault, its the Devil doing it.

i'm my own person. i'm what you would call an animist. i believe everything has some kind of a spirit that keeps it going and is released after death. i believe there in NO god. and if there is who cares, and why should it give a flyin fook about me? i do not believe a prescribed place after death. i believe it is all up to you. just as we have choices in life, why not after death? just don't get fooled by that damn light thing when you die. that's the birth canal and ytou are headed back here. me? i'm gonna turn around and look for a door to elsewhere.

I'm a hardline atheist. Hope to enjoy some posting here.

Welcome Blob, I hope your views and arguments will further expand on the information shared already.

I'm a hardline atheist. Hope to enjoy some posting here.
I hope that doesn't mean what I think it means...

I am fully Christian, as most of you already know.
Blibblob, i think you got that hood icon from Eye of the Beholder, no?

"I'm a hardline atheist. Hope to enjoy some posting here.
I hope that doesn't mean what I think it means..."

And what do you think it means?

And what do you think it means?
Usually "hardline atheist" is a synonym for "asshole". Example: "Free""thinker".

Blibblob, i think you got that hood icon from Eye of the Beholder, no?
No, it was a kind of random find that I thought was interesting.

Or 'me' on a number of religion hating episodes ive had

Originally posted by Blibblob
[b]And what do you think it means?
Usually "hardline atheist" is a synonym for "asshole". Example: "Free""thinker".[B]

Thanks for the welcome. Nice to come on a religious forum, state my convictions openly in the appropriate thread and then have a member with > 2000 posts label me as probably an asshole.

lol yeh its kinda of the warm fuzzy atmosphere we have here. Grab a cup of coco and let the freethought fly.

Originally posted by Blob
Thanks for the welcome. Nice to come on a religious forum, state my convictions openly in the appropriate thread and then have a member with > 2000 posts label me as probably an asshole.
I think that if you're not willing to admit that you could be wrong, you're an asshole. Isn't that what "hardline atheist" means?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I think that if you're not willing to admit that you could be wrong, you're an asshole. Isn't that what "hardline atheist" means?

I understand your apprehension if that is your take on my use of 'hardline'.

In fact I am willing to admit I'm wrong and already have stated my willingness in the thread "What proof would you need?" (http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9858&perpage=&pagenumber=2) :
Originally posted by Blob
If asked the opposite, whether I would believe in god if I had proof, then the answer is yes.
I don't recall many of the other posts in that thread being quite as forthcoming as mine.

I am a atheist because I am unconvinced by those who claim there is a god. I used 'hardline' because despite having heard many theists make their case I remain utterly unconvinced to this day. I do not use it meaning "I intend to remain utterly unconvinced to the end of my days come what may!" and I think the post I quoted above illustrates this.

Hope that's reassuring.

Originally posted by Blob
I am a atheist because I am unconvinced by those who claim there is a god. I used 'hardline' because despite having heard many theists make their case I remain utterly unconvinced to this day. I do not use it meaning "I intend to remain utterly unconvinced to the end of my days come what may!" and I think the post I quoted above illustrates this.

Hope that's reassuring.
That's much better than what I (and Blib) originally took "hardline" to mean. Sorry for the confusion.