It seeems as if today, eveyone who is anyone, all know of the Holicaust and all the Horrors that were released on the europeans back in WWII. A global UN discussion was just held in memory of all the victims who suffered through this terrible time.

Article reads as follows:


'UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Those who incite hatred and mass murder are not always extremists but men of culture, Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) told world leaders in opening the first-ever General Assembly commemoration of the World War II Holocaust.

The special memorial, at which survivors and the foreign ministers of Israel, Germany, France, Argentina, Armenia, Canada and Luxembourg are scheduled to speak, is a memorial to the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, the largest Nazi Germany death camp.

The session began with a minute of silent prayer.

"How could such evil happen in a cultured and highly sophisticated nation-state in the heart of Europe whose artists and thinkers had given the world so much," Annan asked. "Truly is has been said: "All that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

"The purveyors of hatred, were not always and may not be in the future, only marginalized extremists," he said.

Although the world rightly says "never again," action is harder. Since the Holocaust genocide has occurred in Cambodia, in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, he said.

And at this moment, "terrible things are happening today in Darfur, Sudan," Annan said. He asked the Security Council to take action once it received a report on Tuesday determining whether genocide has occurred and identifying gross violations of human rights.

During World War II, the word "concentration" camp was a euphemism for exterminating an entire people, including Roma or Gypsies, Poles, Soviet war prisoners, homosexuals and political opponents, Annan said.

A MILLION CHILDREN

But, he said the tragedy of the murder of 6 million Jews was unique, with two-thirds of European Jews including 1.5 million children murdered.

Jorge Semprun, a survivor of the Buchenwald concentration camp in Germany, addresses the session as the representative of Spain's Foreign Ministry, as will Nobel Laureate Elie Wiesel, a survivor.

Paul Wolfowitz, the U.S. deputy secretary of states, is leading the U.S. delegation. Italy sent its speaker of the senate and Russia, whose troops freed Auschwitz at the end of the war in 1945, is represented by its human rights commissioner.

The liberation of Auschwitz is to be observed this year as Holocaust Memorial Day, with world leaders attending ceremonies in Poland on Jan. 27.

The major powers knew of and discussed the Nazi mass murder of Jews but did not take measures against it, such as bombing the railways leading to the camps. Holocaust researchers have pressured the Vatican (news - web sites) to open its archives, hoping to learn whether such information reached the pope from priests in the field."

To accompany the assembly session, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom opens an exhibit of photos and sketches from the Auschwitz camp, called "The Depth of the Abyss," including some 60 sketches by Zinovii Tolkatchev, a private in the Soviet Red rmy who drew them at the time of the liberation of the Majdanek and Auschwitz camps.

They were donated to Yad Vashem, Israel's Holocaust remembrance, documentation, research center, by his daughter and son in Kiev, Anel and Ilya Tolkatchev.

At a breakfast for survivors New York's two U.S. senators, Hillary Clinton (news - web sites) and Charles Shumer attended, along with Henry Kissinger, a former secretary of state and a German refugee.

Also at the event was Congressman Tom Lantos, a California Democrat who was saved from death by Raoul Wallenberg, the Swedish diplomat who rescued tens of thousands of Jews in Hungary. Wallenberg is the uncle of Annan's wife, Nane.

The meeting was requested by U.S. Ambassador John Danforth in a letter on Dec. 9, and backed by Russia, the European Union (news - web sites), Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Annan polled member states and 138 nations in the 191-member assembly agreed. "<end>


Heres the link:http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050124/wl_nm/un_holocaust_dc_1

Althought the horrors that they victims of this nightmare suffered were beyond imagination, we all seem to forget one thing


THEY WERE NOT ALONE..


There were countless Asians that were slaughtered by the Japanese in ways that even more horrible than what the europeans suffered.. and for some unknown reason noboby seems to care as much. For instance "The Rape of Nanking' was one of the most brutal examples of Human Savagetry to ever be published, and the world doesn't seem to make any visible effort whatsoever to try to give it as much attention. Can anyone here explain to me why this is? There was even a book written about this very subject by a very intelligent woman named Iris Chang, who devoted her life toward making these horrors and atrcities her people suffered known to the world. During her life both she and all of her efforts were largely ignored. Because of this she became so distraught that she sunk into a pithole of depression and eventually was driven to comit suicide. I remember posting a topic on her death a while back and from what I can remember, it didn't get a single comment from anyone here in this forum, so sadly I moved on. :(


Here is her book on the subject. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140277447/102-0934633-6592926


For those that are unaware of the asian horrors, here is a brief description:

Click for Photo http://www.tribo.org/nanking/heads.jpg


"The Rape of Nanking: An Undeniable History in Photographs tells the story in words and more than 400 photographs of the Japanese invasion of China and the sacking of its capital city, Nanking, in 1937-38.

Between December 1937 and March 1938 at least 369,366 Chinese civilians and prisoners of war were slaughtered by the invading troops. An estimated 80,000 women and girls were raped; many of them were then mutilated or murdered.

THE SAVAGERY OF THE KILLING WAS AS APPALLING AS ITS SCALE.


Thousands of victims were beheaded, burned, bayoneted, buried alive, or disemboweled.

To this day the Japanese government has refused to apologize for these and other World War II atrocities, and a significant sector of Japanese society denies that they took place at all.

It is time to honor history." <end>


I agree.. It time we INCLUDE these issues right along with the european Holocaust and all of its victims!!

Don't You? :(

I am sorry, but any time I see the words UN and discussion, or summit I have to laugh.

Germany has declared that it will forever remember the holicaust. Why just Germany? How come the world hasn't forced Japan to do the same? :(


Germany Vows to Remember Nazi Crimes

By GEIR MOULSON, Associated Press Writer

BERLIN - Germany will live up to its "moral obligation" to keep alive the memory of the Nazis' crimes, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said Tuesday as he paid tribute to the victims of the Auschwitz death camp, liberated 60 years ago this week.

Between 1 million and 1.5 million prisoners — most of them Jews — perished in gas chambers or died of starvation and disease at Auschwitz. Overall, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.

"There can be no compensation for the scale of the horror, the torture and the suffering <end>


Here's the link: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050125/ap_on_re_eu/germany_auschwitz_1


My point is:

The Japanese did the same to the Chinese :(

The United States did the same to the Native Americans and Hawaains :(

The Soviets did the same to the Alaskans before they sold it to the U.S. :(


The above mentioned are just as giulty of crimes against humanity as Germany is. Why is it that Germany is the only one singled out and the rest ignored? :confused:

I think the reason that there's more focus on it is that it was an incredibly organized endevour. I have a book on WWII that shows the records they kept on how much gold they extracted from people's teeth and how much it was worth, etc. It was almost a business. The other incidents weren't so organized. Plus the holocaust was far more extensive than the other incidents. And finally, I suppose people relate better to Europeans than they do Native Americans or Chinese.

Originally posted by Dunkirk101
Germany has declared that it will forever remember the holicaust. Why just Germany? How come the world hasn't forced Japan to do the same? :(

My point is:

The Japanese did the same to the Chinese :(

The United States did the same to the Native Americans and Hawaains :(

The Soviets did the same to the Alaskans before they sold it to the U.S. :(


The above mentioned are just as giulty of crimes against humanity as Germany is. Why is it that Germany is the only one singled out and the rest ignored? :confused:

Good point! Likely because Germany lost the war. Had they won, things would be decidedly different. You know what they say: "history is written by the winners".

If truth be told, does not every country have it share of "war crimes"?

Post war Germany did a great job about memory and explanation of what happened. It's a rather unique case in history, and an example that should be followed by most other countries.

Meanwhile, Italy and Japan did not break as clearly as Germany with their former leaders. In Japan, the emperor stayed in place. In Italy, many former fascist leaders played a role in postwar politics - all this in the name of opposing communism.
As a result, in both countries, fascism and imperialism gain a wider support today. You can easily buy Mussolini T-shirts in souvenir shops in Iraly, and far-right leaders who publicly praised fascism a few years ago are now in the govt with Berlusconi.
In japan, far-right movements and thinkers are more popular than ever. Antisemistism is fashionable, and many revisionist books and mangas have been published during the last decade. The sufferings of Chinese and Korean people are still denied by japanese politicians.

I watched a documentary (a few actually) of reporters trying to uncover aspects of the Japanese Goverment and its obsessesion with keeping things under wraps.

As i remember he was very close to serving jail time, and they were following him everywhere. They arnt the nicest of Police either so i wouldnt want to piss them off.

The above mentioned are just as giulty of crimes against humanity as Germany is. Why is it that Germany is the only one singled out and the rest ignored? :confused:

maybe there was something about MASS MURDER of innocents? or maybe it was something about baby flambe?

Originally posted by ~Sal~
Good point! Likely because Germany lost the war. Had they won, things would be decidedly different. You know what they say: "history is written by the winners".

If truth be told, does not every country have it share of "war crimes"?


have to agree with that. it is funny how soooo many people in amerika know about the jewish holocaust, but know almost nothing of the holocaust ndns went through here in the western hemisphere.

Originally posted by Dunkirk101
Germany has declared that it will forever remember the holicaust. Why just Germany? How come the world hasn't forced Japan to do the same?

My point is:

The Japanese did the same to the Chinese

The United States did the same to the Native Americans and Hawaains

The Soviets did the same to the Alaskans before they sold it to the U.S.

The above mentioned are just as giulty of crimes against humanity as Germany is. Why is it that Germany is the only one singled out and the rest ignored?

Because the Jewish people have gone out of their way to make sure that we don't forget. Israel actually has a budget item in their national budget for holocost education and remembrance.

I hope we never forget these tragadies. But I have to admit I am sick of hearing about how picked on the poor Jewish people are and have been.

I am sick of your thinly veiled anti semitism and attacks on anyone who doesnt believe the same as you

Originally posted by Travh20
I am sick of your thinly veiled anti semitism and attacks on anyone who doesnt believe the same as you

This is the History forum, not Politics Trav...give it a rest.

I think the main reason we haven't heard so much about the terrible atrocities committed by Japan during WWII, is because of the political climate that followed the war. The main victim of Japanese atrocities was China, and after WWII they were/are a communist nation that we were at odds with. Japan on the other hand became our strongest ally in the region in our attempt to curb the spread of communism. In short, we didn't care about China, and we didn't want to piss off Japan.

While all countries are guilty of war crimes not all countries are guilty of genocide.

WW two prisoners of war were subjected to horrid conditions under the Japanese. They were masters at torture. But it was war.

The Jews on the other hand were subjected to genocide. That isn't even in the same league. I believe that one life lost is equal to another but genocide is the epitomy of evil intent and I believe places it differently.


Function: noun
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

As a percentage of their total population, the "Jewish" Holocaust was far greater in its scope than Nanking.

Compared to many of the other intentional civilian deaths, there was absolutely no reason for it other than hatred. Not only did the genocide not help Germany, but they actually diverted much of their war effort in order to carry it out.

Originally posted by Travh20
I am sick of your thinly veiled anti semitism and attacks on anyone who doesnt believe the same as you

You get more twisted everyday. I am not anti semetic. But I love the idea that you get sick thinking about it.

I am not a racist, but I am sick of hearing about slavery, why dont they just STFU about it?

While all countries are guilty of war crimes not all countries are guilty of genocide.
Ah, great how Germany still gets harrased by it, and pretty much all who did it are dead. For some reason the United States has another little voice yelling about attrocities, yet those who faced the brunt force of European and American racist tendencies and genocide, not one word. Nearly 100 million Native Americans were killed, part conventional warfare, part early biological warfare. Genocide still occurs in the world and we often turn a blind eye. The United States and the UN have decided that Sudan is not a genocide, when it clearly is, because declaring it a genocide would require under internation agreements to mediate the conflicts, Rwanda is also a genocide but is being disputed for the same reason as Sudan. Just the same as when Churchill in WW2 released information regarding concentration camps quite early in the war, and it was completely disregarded.

I am not a racist, but I am sick of hearing about slavery, why dont they just STFU about it?
One concept trav. Black History Month.

Originally posted by Echo2

Because the Jewish people have gone out of their way to make sure that we don't forget. Israel actually has a budget item in their national budget for holocost education and remembrance.

I hope we never forget these tragadies. But I have to admit I am sick of hearing about how picked on the poor Jewish people are and have been.

I'm a jew, and i have to agree. its important to remember the holocaust, but not the way e do. instead of continuing on with our victim complex, we should really make an effort to aide humanitarianism, and prevent the oppression of people across the world. for awhile israel was very much like that, but not really anymore. and unfortunately the great tradition of jewish radicalism seems to have faded.

maybe because there is still an awful lot of institutionalized racism in amerika and the blacks are having a inferiority complex reaction about it? both sides are still fucked up. whites and the blacks.


Originally posted by Travh20
I am not a racist, but I am sick of hearing about slavery, why dont they just STFU about it?

Originally posted by WhammyBar
1. I'm a jew, and i have to agree. its important to remember the holocaust, but not the way e do.

2. instead of continuing on with our victim complex, we should really make an effort to aide humanitarianism, and prevent the oppression of people across the world. for awhile israel was very much like that, but not really anymore.

3. and unfortunately the great tradition of jewish radicalism seems to have faded.


1. How is it being remembered currently, and how should it be remembered instead?

2. Remembering the holocaust doesn't preclude anyone from other humanitarian efforts. It is only through remembering just how evil people may become that we will realize how important our humanitarian efforts are.

3. What does this mean. Political lockstep?

Originally posted by Travh20
I am not a racist, but I am sick of hearing about slavery, why dont they just STFU about it?

You are a racist. Nobody even mentioned slavery, you just got sick of hearing about it all of a sudden.

Why would you be sitting around thinking about shit like that unless that's the type of shit you sit around thinking about?

It won't ever go away so you had better figure out a way to get used to it.

Ed, Echo had said she was sick of hearing about the Holocaust.

Trav said she was anti-Semitic.

She said she wasn't.

Trav said he was sick of hearing about slavery but wasn't racist (sort of a little parody of Echo)

I think your reaction to his statement proves his point about Echo.

thank you Mr. Brooks, i really didnt have the energy to respond to that post

You people scare me. You really do.

Wow, can anyone explain the difference between these two things.

I wrote: I hope we never forget these tragadies. (referring to the holocost). But I have to admit I am sick of hearing about how picked on the poor Jewish people are and have been.

Trav called me a racist for writting that.

On many strings in this forum I have heard christians claiming that they don't hate gays but they are sick of hearing about them and their rights. They say they don't hate gays but they hate what they do and how they do it.

If christians can make those statements with a straight face, how can they possibly think that what I wrote was racist?

One concept trav. Black History MonthBHM is a half-assed fix for the systematic lies and distortions taught the rest of the year.

somehow I knew you were going to say something like that

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
BHM is a half-assed fix for the systematic lies and distortions taught the rest of the year.

Plus it's the shortest month of the year!

Echo, If the holocaust only affected Orthodox Jews, should Reformed Jews say, "that's okay, that's not us." If it happened to Europeans, should Americans say, "that's okay, it's not us."

Don't look at it specifically as Jews being killed. Think of it as PEOPLE being killed which makes them part of your group and may evoke more sympathy.

I know it was a tragedy and I said in my statement that "I hope we never forget these tragadies." Trav took my statement out of context as he does to most of the things I post. I find it best to just ignore his selective reading and conclusion jumping. It happens so often it is hard to keep up with and one would spend most of their time trying to explain something to him that he has no desire to understand.:confused:

Originally posted by Brooks
1. How is it being remembered currently, and how should it be remembered instead?

2. Remembering the holocaust doesn't preclude anyone from other humanitarian efforts. It is only through remembering just how evil people may become that we will realize how important our humanitarian efforts are.

3. What does this mean. Political lockstep?

1. the holocaust is usually remembered as osmething ONLY jews suffered trhough, despite the fact that only half of the people killed in concentration camps were jewish. its part of what i see as a larger jewsih identity prblem. we always identify ourselves as the vicims, and though thats true about the holocaust, it isn;t true today. mnany people still whine about how oppressed we are, when in fact we are probably the most successful ethnic minority group in america.

2. remembwring is important, and we do plenty of it. but its only the beginning. one has to look at the atrocities of the past, and learn from them about how to prevent future ones. plenty of genocides have taken place since the holocaust, and nobody has done anything about them. this is a failing on the part of everyone, and one of the reasons i find so much fault in the jewsih commmutiy is because they often repeat "they didn't die in vain", yet there has never been an organized jewish effort to end the suffering of other peoples. we can organize and internationally reckongnized memorial day for the holocaust, but we can't seem to bring ourselves to campaign for the rights of other whose suffering we should be able to indentify with.

3. israeli politics have move to the right, the poltiics of the jewish community in america have also moved to the right. I'm not saying there aren't any jewish radicals left, because I'm obviosuly one of them, but the great jewish radicaly movement of the past have diminished in size and power. jewish culture has always been one focused on learning and cooperation. the jewish community i see today in america is paranoid, fractured, and materialistic and conservative.