This article (http://www.local6.com/education/4090001/detail.html) was recently posted on /., and some of the comments have disheartened me a bit. Have we become so politically correct that to state that men may have a genetic predisposition to one thing automatically makes the speaker a misogynist? The fact that there are differences between males and females is indisputable.

Looking at the article I linked, it states that, essentially, women seem to have, on average, less ability than men in the fields of mathematics and science, and that more study is needed in this field. He is not stating that all women are idiots when it comes no math, nor is he saying that women are incapable of being good at math. Indeed, my Calc teacher is a women, and she is (as far as I can tell) brilliant mathematically. But Jane Schmoe is less likely to be a good mathematician than Joe Schmoe, according to the data collected so far. And I agree that more study is needed so that we can know definitively whether or not these preliminary results are true. And, as you all surely know, I am not exactly a misogynist.

Thoughts?

I think the article also shows that men are less able to figure out when they're about to say something that's going to get them in trouble.

But as to your question, I don't think we're at that point in society as a whole, but there are certain places where it's unacceptable to state opinions or ask questions about such issues. And universities would have to be first on that list. I'm pretty convinced that people on the far left and far right don't care that much about facts or evidence, but rather only care about expressing undying support for their own beliefs.

I'm warning you, if this drives you nuts now, wait until you're in college.

I think you're right Borg when you say that it is indisputable that there are differences between men and women.

The male and female brains are wired in fundamentally different ways. The trouble begins when you start making value judgements about those differences. When "different" becomes "superior", people understandably get nervous.

i found a really interesting article on this in the New York Times. here's an excerpt:

"Nor is the masculine edge in math unique to the United States. In an international standardized test administered in 2003 by the international research group Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development to 250,000 15-year-olds in 41 countries, boys did moderately better on the math portion in just over half the nations. For nearly all the other countries, there were no significant sex differences.

But average scores varied wildly from place to place and from one subcategory of math to the next. Japanese girls, for example, were on par with Japanese boys on every math section save that of "uncertainty," which measures probabilistic skills, and Japanese girls scored higher over all than did the boys of many other nations, including the United States.

In Iceland, girls broke the mold completely and outshone Icelandic boys by a significant margin on all parts of the test, as they habitually do on their national math exams. "We have no idea why this should be so," said Almar Midvik Halldorsson, project manager for the Educational Testing Institute in Iceland."

whole thing: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/24/science/24women.html?pagewanted=1&oref=login

if it turns out that registration is required or something, tell me and i'll post the whole thing, it's just kinda long or i would have posted it all.

I believe it has to do with social attitudes and teacher attitudes. It wasn't that long ago when women were frowned upon if they were interested in math and science (at least in this country). I remember when men were expected to be the bread winners and tough and not cry, etc. Women were expected to be homemakers and if they did work they were expected to be or teachers or nurses or secretaries. It takes many, many decades for social attitudes to change. It is hard to break out of expectations.

I don't think people realize how influencial others attidudes can be on an individual.

I feel as if a majority of women still feel as if they need to do better than the men in order to succeed and thus put more time and effort in and get the grades.

I went to a boys school (or prison as i termed it) and the girls school to whom we affiliated ( :) ) got better grades overall than us across the board.

Apparently that was an increasing trend thus motivating them to predict it would only get worse for the boys and the gap between us and them grow wider.

I say fairplay, would be really something to see a female priminister. Hell look how much respect we have for Margaret Thatcher, Its a shame she got power hungry and made it out as if she WAS the party.

Originally posted by Echo2
I believe it has to do with social attitudes and teacher attitudes. It wasn't that long ago when women were frowned upon if they were interested in math and science (at least in this country). I remember when men were expected to be the bread winners and tough and not cry, etc. Women were expected to be homemakers and if they did work they were expected to be or teachers or nurses or secretaries. It takes many, many decades for social attitudes to change. It is hard to break out of expectations.

I don't think people realize how influencial others attidudes can be on an individual.
I don't know. It has been demonstrated that women's and men's brains are wired a tad differently, and they approach problems differently as well.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
and they approach problems differently as well.

They read the manual, we dont.

Women are fucked up. I dont mean this in an offensive way but what i mean is women dont think straight. Most women dont have much commen sense and take offence to everything men do or say. If a man says somthing to a woman and she can take it in a way that he ment it as a nice thing or a bad thing she will take it as a bad thing. Its what you do, You also moan too much and in generol do my head in.

But that aside i love ya, cant live with you lot and cant live without!!

I think it's a man's world but without a women it would be nothing!!

Originally posted by English_Pride
If a man says somthing to a woman

...such as "you are fucked up?"


and she can take it in a way that he ment it as a nice thing or a bad thing she will take it as a bad thing. Its what you do, You also moan too much and in generol do my head in.

yes, but at least we know how to spell.

and thank you for all your hard evidence, specific examples and intelligent arguments. i'm sure that attitude will really help you get laid.

Originally posted by English_Pride
Women are fucked up. I dont mean this in an offensive way but what i mean is women dont think straight.
Wow, talk about unfounded generalizations...

In fairness it was meant as a joke, Well most of it!! lol

ok, back to the original discussion...

from what i can see, boys are usually better at math than girls because of a cultural thing, not because of a genetic thing. in iceland, girls scored much better at math than boys, despite the negative attitude they hold towards it. and in many countries, girls and boys had roughly equal scores on math SAT's. so if men's superiority at math isn't universal, how could it be genetic?

i'll post more on this later.

Originally posted by sputnik
ok, back to the original discussion...

from what i can see, boys are usually better at math than girls because of a cultural thing, not because of a genetic thing. in iceland, girls scored much better at math than boys, despite the negative attitude they hold towards it. and in many countries, girls and boys had roughly equal scores on math SAT's. so if men's superiority at math isn't universal, how could it be genetic?

i'll post more on this later.
Maybe the way they teach math in Iceland works better for the female version of the brain than the male version? I have no evidence for this at all: I'm merely throwing out hypotheses.

Or maybe centuries of Icelandic inbreeding has made women men!

is that biologically possible?

Women and Men's brains are different but they actually have the same intelectual capabilities. Men's brains are bigger but Women's brains have more grey cells. That's also another conclusion of the experiment.

It is funny how nature works! Women have smaller brains but more cells to compensate...amazing!

English-Pride...I bet you are single

:p lol

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Maybe the way they teach math in Iceland works better for the female version of the brain than the male version? I have no evidence for this at all: I'm merely throwing out hypotheses.

probably true. i do think that many women's brains work one way and many men's brains work another. i'm going to do more research on this.