I just read that a US, Virginia-based missionary group said that it has airlifted 300 "tsunami orphans" from the Muslim province of Banda Aceh to Jakarta, the Indonesian capital, where it plans to raise them in a Christian children's home.
The missionary group, WorldHelp, has a web site at :
http://www.worldhelp.net/home/default.asp
Is the Indonesian nation in such bad shape that it would allow this strange church to kidnap over 300 children and physically move them hundreds of miles by air to a secretive enclave in Jakarta in order to raise them in a religion other than that of their birth?
What exactly is that government doing to provide health, happiness and security to its citizens if it cannot even protect children from being removed forcefully from their homeland after a vicious and terrible calamity like the tsunami?
What would be the result if after a hurricane in Florida, Mississippi or Texas 300 children were airlifted to Saudi Arabia in order to be raised in a Muslim children’s home?
The perversion of faith through cash is being played out in front of us. These children have been removed from family and homeland in order to satisfy the needs of kidnappers.
How many of these children will be ‘adopted’ or sold for cash to American, English and Australian parents looking for a child?
It is a disgusting result of the tragedy and is, indeed, a tragedy in itself when a Christian society normally engaged in selling bibles turns instead to selling children.

If the story is true as presented - then it's a disgrace & the organizers should go to jail for abduction.

Do you have any documentation to back up these claims? The link you gave is just World Help's website. I see no evidence that they intend to sell any of these children to foreigners.

And if these children are indeed orphans, do you really think that it would be better to leave them amongst the rubble in Banda Aceh to starve to death, die of disease, or be sold as sex slaves by atheists?

I know if my parents were killed in a natural disaster, I would prefer three squares, clothes, a bed, and a roof over my head than the alternative.

But that's just me........

1st off this has nothing to do with being atheist or Christian. IF this story is being told in truth then I would expect our law to step in. Maybe the Christians are trying to give homeless kids a place to live? There is alot of charity that comes from the Christian people it does not mean they are trying to convert anyone. Alot of the kids over there have lost everything including parents and loved ones. Those that are left can hardly take care of their own muchless another stranger. Instead of bashing a group for possibly helping maybe you should give evidence of a kidnapping and abuse?????? Just a thought

Personally,

I think God has made it possible for these Children to be brought to him.

Tragedy struck them. He can get them out.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Personally,

I think God has made it possible for these Children to be brought to him.

Tragedy struck them. He can get them out.

Sanctimonious rubbish.

Didn't he put them there in the first place?

You speak of a God that has no responsibility for what he created and then gets a pat on the back for fixing his own mistakes.

Originally posted by cranston36
I just read that a US, Virginia-based missionary group said that it has airlifted 300 "tsunami orphans" from the Muslim province of Banda Aceh to Jakarta, the Indonesian capital, where it plans to raise them in a Christian children's home.
The missionary group, WorldHelp, has a web site at :
http://www.worldhelp.net/home/default.asp
Is the Indonesian nation in such bad shape that it would allow this strange church to kidnap over 300 children and physically move them hundreds of miles by air to a secretive enclave in Jakarta in order to raise them in a religion other than that of their birth?

Rather than allow thse kids to starve and die of disease, at least you commend this miisionary group of providing for these kids needs. They didn't just kidnap the, You just mentioned that they are orphaned. How do you call that kidnapping if these kids have no home and no security? If a child had no place to live and was on the streets in America, wouldn't the authorities have that child palced in a home? Would you call that kidnapping then?


What exactly is that government doing to provide health, happiness and security to its citizens if it cannot even protect children from being removed forcefully from their homeland after a vicious and terrible calamity like the tsunami?

It's quite obvious that the government doesn't do much to help it's needy citizens, us who are christians have a responsibility to help those who are less fotrunate. By posting what you just posted, your saying that we should just leave these people alone to starve and die of disease. And when we do something to help others out, we get accused of being kidnappers?



How many of these children will be ‘adopted’ or sold for cash to American, English and Australian parents looking for a child?

None of them are going to be sold off. Maybe adopted into a good caring home, but not sold off. Of course, anti-christian people will try to make us christians look as if we are doing wicked stuff that we are not.


It is a disgusting result of the tragedy and is, indeed, a tragedy in itself when a Christian society normally engaged in selling bibles turns instead to selling children.

If you are going to accuse christians of doing that, please provide legitimate evidence, or otherwise what you just said is pure slander.

Okay, here's an actual article on the topic, if anyone's interested:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050114/ap_on_re_us/tsunami_orphans

Originally posted by mad dog
Maybe the Christians are trying to give homeless kids a place to live? There is alot of charity that comes from the Christian people it does not mean they are trying to convert anyone.

Riiiiight.

The Christian missionary group that took the kids to a Christian children's home probably won't ever think to instruct the kids on how wunnerful their Christian religion is.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Freethinker
[B]Riiiiight.

The Christian missionary group that took the kids to a Christian children's home probably won't ever think to instruct the kids on how wunnerful their Christian religion is.



It's not our christian religion that is wonderful, but the Lord we serve that is wonderful.

Originally posted by the J Man
It's not our christian religion that is wonderful, but the Lord we serve that is wonderful.

If that's true, then the Lord's servants should behave wonderfully as well.

It seems to me that if the religious groups in question really wanted to help, and had no ulterior motives, they would hand out food and clothing without including a bible.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
If that's true, then the Lord's servants should behave wonderfully as well.

There are some sincere christians out there. We are not all a bunch of hypocrites as many like to label us. Even so, there is no perfect person in this world. Only God is perfect.

It seems to me that if the religious groups in question really wanted to help, and had no ulterior motives, they would hand out food and clothing without including a bible.

What about having a place to live? And what are the going to have to do, go out and feed them daily? They don't have an ulterior motive. There are many christians that do want to help others. Also, by them in and finding homes for them, they can get education so that they can take care of themselves when they get older.

Originally posted by the J Man
They don't have an ulterior motive. There are many christians that do want to help others.

I'm sure that there are many christians who help others out of a sense of duty to help the needy.

I'll put the question more plainly.

Why does christian charity have to include the christian "message"?

Why not give them food, clothing, shelter and whatever, and if you must educate them, can't you hire some locals who've lost everything to teach the children about how to be a good Muslim? It seems to me to be the right thing to do, and has the benefit of leaving behind muslim children who actually might like christians in the future.

Originally posted by Freethinker--------
Riiiiight. The Christian missionary group that took the kids to a Christian children's home probably won't ever think to instruct the kids on how wunnerful their Christian religion is.

Originally posted by the J Man
It's not our christian religion that is wonderful, but the Lord we serve that is wonderful.

Your OPINION is that your "Lord" and the Christian religion is "wonderful".

My opinion is that it's anti-human, irrational and detestable.

"""The creationists have this creator who is evil, who is small-minded, who is malevolent, and who is not very bright and can't even get his science right. Creationists have made their creator in their own image."
--------------- Ian Plimer

No where did I see 300 children kidnapped by Christians.

This thread title is hysterical propaganda against Christians.

old reb

Originally posted by old-reb
No where did I see 300 children kidnapped by Christians.

This thread title is hysterical propaganda against Christians.

old reb
It never actually happened. They were trying, though. See Uncool's link.

Christian organizations are always giving and in this case they were wanting to place orphans (with no support system) in a holding area so they could be adopted. The article becomes propaganda because it is framed as kidnapping of Muslims by Christians AND the event never even happened. The Christians would have done the same for Christians.

Liberals and Muslims care more about religion than placing homeless children in homes in the US, where they could grow up with good education and jobs. A lady friend of mine gave her baby up to adoption and the baby was the first in her whole family to get a college education and a professional job now the baby has two familys that love her.

Where are the Muslim organizations to help the children? I see some terrorist groups are there to see keep a watch on Westerners, helping their helpless.

RICHMOND, Va. - A Virginia evangelical aid group said Thursday it has stopped raising money to place 300 Muslim orphans from tsunami-stricken Indonesia in a Christian orphanage due to a broad government crackdown on Western relief organizations.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Riiiiight.

The Christian missionary group that took the kids to a Christian children's home probably won't ever think to instruct the kids on how wunnerful their Christian religion is.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Freethinker; try to pull your head out of the sand for just a sec. Just maybe these folks are trying to help{could it be possible?} This is one of those deals where they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. People like you will find fault with them for helping, then turn around and get pissed because they could have helped but didn't. Which is better.... for them to sit over there in sh** with no food or shelter or be brought to a place where they can atleast get a meal and a place to sleep. How many of these kids have you brought into your house???

Originally posted by Freethinker




Your OPINION is that your "Lord" and the Christian religion is "wonderful".

My opinion is that it's anti-human, irrational and detestable.

"""The creationists have this creator who is evil, who is small-minded, who is malevolent, and who is not very bright and can't even get his science right. Creationists have made their creator in their own image."
--------------- Ian Plimer [/B]

Too bad you feel that way. I just wish that you could know how much the Lord loves you. Then you wouldn't be saying what you just said.

Originally posted by the J Man
Too bad you feel that way. I just wish that you could know how much the Lord loves you. Then you wouldn't be saying what you just said.
I just wish that you could know how little he (or I) care. Then you wouldn't be saying what you just said.

We don't, but would it not be great if we could have a world where people just helped people to be helping. No religion, prejudice, political groups, etc.
We will never see that in the near future.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with removing homeless children from a dangerous devastated area and putting them in a safe environment where they will receive food, clothing and shelter.


OMG, somebody might give them a Bible
:eek:

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
Okay, here's an actual article on the topic, if anyone's interested:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050114/ap_on_re_us/tsunami_orphans

Interesting link: "Our faith compels us to share our faith. But in this time of disaster, it's not a time for Christian evangelism. It's a time to meet basic survival needs of human beings who've lost all hope," he said. "If that earns us the right to be heard as Christians, then so be it.

Personally, I was raised as a Christian but if my child was left in those circumstances and they were rescued by a Muslim or adopted by a loving Muslim couple... I would feel grateful.

There's lots of time to examine our belief structure and shake off the indoctrination is we so chose.... of course we have to be alive to do that.

Good post, Sal, I agree wholeheartedly

And, welcome to Allforums!

Originally posted by ~Sal~
Personally, I was raised as a Christian but if my child was left in those circumstances and they were rescued by a Muslim or adopted by a loving Muslim couple... I would feel grateful.


That's fine as far as it goes, but would you feel better if they were raised in the faith they had already chosen, or been brought up in?

First of all, it was the Indonesian government that objected to what was going on, or allegedly going on, not the people that have been devastated by the tsunami. Secondly, It seems a bit premature to be talking about relocating orphans. Every effort should be made to keep these kids in Indonesia, either by placing them with Indonesian families, or by establishing orphanages there. Why should these orphanages be christian institutions?

And welcome to allforums Sal. :)

That's fine as far as it goes, but would you feel better if they were raised in the faith they had already chosen, or been brought up in?

Honestly in light of just how horrific this disaster is I personally would not care if they were raised in my chosen faith. But then my personal belief system is fairly strange.;)

First of all, it was the Indonesian government that objected to what was going on, or allegedly going on, not the people that have been devastated by the tsunami. Secondly, It seems a bit premature to be talking about relocating orphans. Every effort should be made to keep these kids in Indonesia, either by placing them with Indonesian families, or by establishing orphanages there. Why should these orphanages be christian institutions?

Yeah it's those wretched governments getting in the way again. !just kidding! ~sort of~ Yes truly every effort should be made to keep the kids in Indonesia and to raise them as Muslim. Yet I can understand and respect those who regardless of religion only see a child in need and wish to reach out. Everyone has a belief system so there is going to be spill over.

It's just so horrendous to know that many of those kids if they remain there will be used and abused in the sex trade industry. They will never again experiece a parents protection, and interest and love. I would rather some right wing religious group take them. And trust me...I lean to the left.

Thanks also to you and UnCoolDuck for the welcome. Things look lively around here.

Originally posted by Vilepagan That's fine as far as it goes, but would you feel better if they were raised in the faith they had already chosen, or been brought up in?

If the parents and family are dead does faith have anything to do with it? I would rather see a child raised to have food clothing and shelter instead of making an issue of who is worshiping what. Lets say it was a gay group that was going to help the 300 hundred kids? Should we not let the gay group help afterall they're gay, Maybe the parents don't believe in being gay??? If a group wants to take the time to help then let them.

First of all, it was the Indonesian government that objected to what was going on, or allegedly going on, not the people that have been devastated by the tsunami.

Government allways knows best :D :D :D

Secondly, It seems a bit premature to be talking about relocating orphans.

When would be a good time to help children that have nothing including loved ones and a place to stay? After they have fell victim to some of the scum? If they have a good place to stay that will help them then fine but if not what next?

Every effort should be made to keep these kids in Indonesia, either by placing them with Indonesian families, or by establishing orphanages there.

I do agree they should have a chance to be on their home turf, but in some cases there is no home turf left.

Why should these orphanages be christian institutions?


Why shouldn't they? I don't see the gay groups jumping to help I don't see hollywood jumping to help. If a certain groups wants to help why shouldn't they as long as they have good intentions? No one has a problem with sending money thats all fine and dandy. The problem with all of these money org. is they take a cut so is it helping? yes and no some of the money goes to help while some goes to line the pockets of the group taking the money. Even red cross gets a cut something like 4% of what is raised. So if they raise 10,000,000 they get 2,500,000, but if they raise 100,000,000 they get 25,000,000. so even if they work the same man hours etc... they don't give more. I would rather see some of these small groups make an impact instead of seeing CBS, MTV, UW, etc... line there pockets.

If a group {anygroup} with good intentions wants to help then I think we should atleast find out what their plan is.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Why should these orphanages be christian institutions?



Perhaps because the people running these orphages are christians?

No doubt the people wanting to snatch these kids had good intent, even if the intent was Christian - christian intent is not a bad thing so long as the "lets convert these people intent" doesn't begin - which is always does. With some, they believe they are doing the "lords" work no matter what - the ends justify the means when its the "lords" work.

Muslims believe in their religion with equal passion as christians. They certainly believe that kids taken by Christians are going to hell.

They have every right to be pissed.

Originally posted by DrewM


Muslims believe in their religion with equal passion as christians. They certainly believe that kids taken by Christians are going to hell.



Very true, with the hard liners, this life on earth is not nearly as important as what happens after death.

So the souls of the little children are more important than health and welfare on this simple earth.

old reb