I agree with Drew, this is an excellent place to start.

You should be able to see from my sig, that I do indeed believe in the Rapture of the Church.

The Bible fortells it in the book of Thesolonians.

The Rapture will create two very different things. For the children of Christ, we will all meet Christ in the air and be with him for eternity. For those others, it will be the time of Tribulation. By far, the worst 7 years ever seen by this Earth.

I could go into very extensive notes on this event, but it would probably be pages on top of pages of information.

If there is anything specific, I'll address it that way.

I wouldn't sweat it - it won't happen in your lifetime, or anybodies lifetime.

The rapture is like believing in UFO's

Jere - how many Jack Van Impe video's do you have on the shelf?

Originally posted by jerejerebinks


The Rapture will create two very different things. For the children of Christ, we will all meet Christ in the air and be with him for eternity. For those others, it will be the time of Tribulation. By far, the worst 7 years ever seen by this Earth.



You'll meet Christ in the air at the beginning of the rapture? So you're going to float around in the air for 7 years? Wow.

As of now, I don't know what to believe. Maybe I should start reading the 'ol Bible again. 'ol Deuteronomy is probably PISSED that I never finished it...

I believe in the rapture, but there is much speculation about it and the exact nature of it is unclear. I lean toward the classic reformed post-trib view, but I'm not that dogmatic about it.

The thing I focus on is this: Unless Christ comes first, everyone in this forum will die, most likely in 100 years or less. So, in effect, the end is near. We're all going to find out sooner than we may think. The question we must ask ourselves is: Am I living the right kind of life right now?

People have been expecting the rapture to come in the next 100 years for the past 2000 years - nothing new there.

I think I live the "right kind of life" I am not in jail. My family loves me and I them. I do no harm to others intentionally. I help another when I can. We have a roof over our head, plenty to eat.
Believe in allowing other people the freedom of choice.
Have had good times, have had sad times. Have laughed, have cried. Have won, have lost.
If I do not fly in the air, after death, with you guys so be it.
For I have flown on earth during my life and I think it was worth it.

Dan I hope you are right and it is that easy.....Jere, I believe in the rapture, then the seven years of triblulation then followed by the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.

By the way we don't hover in the air waiting, and dan to say that a life on this earth for 70-80 years is worth more than eternity with God is strange to say the least.

What Dan is saying is his experience is rooted in reality. Yours is in many ways (the Rapture being a prime example) is rooted in mere fantasy.

The rapture, little green men from mars, whatever - it's all the same.

There isn't a single cell in my body that believes in the rapture.

Who are you to say mine is fantasy, you have admitted to knowing nothing for certain. Your just a board administrator but you speak as if you are all knowing. I understand the concept of debate but most of the time you are just rude and not much of a administrator.

You have to admit, it is a little far-fetched.

When i think of the Rapture, i think of those dead cult members under the purple shrouds.

So after the Rapture, does that mean heaven is then closed off, with a facy velvet rope forever?

It is a fanciful thought, based on no fact or reality. Just like any other mythological story.

Sorry if my opinion is rude.

Drew is not "just a board administrator" he is a human being just like you and I. He has lived a life outside this board.
See, you classify people wrongly. You do not have all the answers either. All you do is quote from a 2000 years old book.
You are closed minded. Only dealing in handed down thoughts of others.
I'll put my money on a man that shows earthly wisdom anytime.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
The question we must ask ourselves is: Am I living the right kind of life right now?
The funny thing is, even though I'm certainly not a Christian, I think I lead a very good life. I don't steal, I try to do well to others. I would give to charity if I had enough spare cash. I've never been to jail; never even gotten so much as a speeding ticket. I think that I am a good person. That a god could send someone like me or any other decently moral person to hell is absurd.

Originally posted by minister
Who are you to say mine is fantasy, you have admitted to knowing nothing for certain. Your just a board administrator but you speak as if you are all knowing. I understand the concept of debate but most of the time you are just rude and not much of a administrator.

If I said the moon was made of green cheese & you said it was fantasy - would that make you all knowing?

The only thing Board administrator means is I pay for this site - it doesn't mean I am barred from laughing at your men from mars stories.

As for debate, you hardly debate - you just tell people how they are going to hell if they don't believe.

I know for a fact the moon is not made of cheese so no bad analogy. For the other question, no heaven will not be closed off, after the rapture there will be 7 years of tribulation, where people can choose to come to god. So if one day a bunch of people just dissapear, check into it.

Well maybe the rapture is real and maybe it's not, but what I don't understand is the bible's explenation of it.

It states that "Faster than a blink of an eye" people are going to disappear. Thus, the rapture has occured. I don't understand how a sh*tload of people are going to disappear all of a sudden. Will the people that are left behind know about it? Maybe it's already happened (and yes Jere maybe if it did happen you stayed behind.)?

and what about the ministers? ;)

Originally posted by minister
I know for a fact the moon is not made of cheese so no bad analogy. For the other question, no heaven will not be closed off, after the rapture there will be 7 years of tribulation, where people can choose to come to god. So if one day a bunch of people just dissapear, check into it.

How do you know for a fact the moon is not made of green cheese - have you ever been there?

The moon being made of green cheese is exactly as plausible as one day a bunch of "chosen ones" being spirited away.

Originally posted by minister
Who are you to say mine is fantasy, you have admitted to knowing nothing for certain.


I think that is the point.

No one knows for certain, even someone with as much faith as you. Sometimes I wonder when someone has that much faith if it entails some brainwashing.

I believe in "something" but, I will never believe I need a go between, whether it be a church or priest or Jesus. If there is a higher power and we are considered his children, I believe very strongly we would have direct access.

Think of it this way... who are you to tell people they will burn in hell if they don't believe.

Originally posted by DrewM
How do you know for a fact the moon is not made of green cheese - have you ever been there?

The moon being made of green cheese is exactly as plausible as one day a bunch of "chosen ones" being spirited away.

Oh oh don't forget the fact that they might float around in the air for 7 years!!!

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
I believe in the rapture, but there is much speculation about it and the exact nature of it is unclear.

Yes, it certainly IS unclear.

Gee....too bad your omniscient god didn't think to put down a lucid, unambiguous description of it in a book somewhere.

Must have slipped his mind.

I know for a fact the moon is not made of cheese so no bad analogy. For the other question, no heaven will not be closed off, after the rapture there will be 7 years of tribulation, where people can choose to come to god. So if one day a bunch of people just dissapear, check into it.

But people do. All the time! Group Kool Aid parties, bring the whole family.

God just took 100 something thousand in a day. Check into that. There's your rapture, you missed the boat.

Originally posted by creetwins
God just took 100 something thousand in a day. Check into that. There's your rapture, you missed the boat.

Couldn't have been them - they were poor, uneducated, non christian types. You know the type God has no time for...They are all in eternal hell now according to Minister.

The rapture is reserved for white, educated, slightly neurotic, christian types - don't you know anything! :)

Originally posted by creetwins

God just took 100 something thousand in a day. Check into that. There's your rapture, you missed the boat.

Well he/she/it must like kids alot cuz like 300 kids dissapear each day in this state alone...I think...

The rapture thing.

Dang, if so many people disapear, that means only the bad ones remains. I'm going to have a hell of a time finding a good mechanic.

Oh please girlfriend...

Originally posted by Freethinker
Yes, it certainly IS unclear.

Gee....too bad your omniscient god didn't think to put down a lucid, unambiguous description of it in a book somewhere.

Must have slipped his mind.

That may be too bad for you, but it doesn't bother me a whole lot. You may feel a desperate need to know all the answers, and you may even think you do, but I don't have that need. There are some things I don't know and never will and that's fine with me.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
The funny thing is, even though I'm certainly not a Christian, I think I lead a very good life. I don't steal, I try to do well to others. I would give to charity if I had enough spare cash. I've never been to jail; never even gotten so much as a speeding ticket. I think that I am a good person. That a god could send someone like me or any other decently moral person to hell is absurd.
That's fine with me. If you're comfortable with that, then go with it. I'm not your judge and I wish you the best.

Personally, I haven't lived such a moral life. I think I'm gonna need a little help. So, I'm turning to Christ for it. If it turns out I'm wrong and all you atheists are right, fine. I won't have lost anything.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
Personally, I haven't lived such a moral life. I think I'm gonna need a little help. So, I'm turning to Christ for it. If it turns out I'm wrong and all you atheists are right, fine. I won't have lost anything.

So christianity is like an insurance policy for you?

Originally posted by DrewM
So christianity is like an insurance policy for you?

No. I believe it, regardless, but I acknowledge that I cannot be absolutely certain. My faith wavers and I might as well be honest about that.

I believe it because I think it's true, regardless of the benefit/cost to me. I do admit, however, that in a comparison between atheism and Christianity, there is no risk to me if I'm wrong, but that's not the reason I'm a Christian.

uncool, at least you admit occasional doubts, I think that is a normal thing of any belief.
But, I am sure that Minister will come up with some kind of "he who doubts will burn in Hell" type saying.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
No. I believe it, regardless, but I acknowledge that I cannot be absolutely certain. My faith wavers and I might as well be honest about that.

I believe it because I think it's true, regardless of the benefit/cost to me. I do admit, however, that in a comparison between atheism and Christianity, there is no risk to me if I'm wrong, but that's not the reason I'm a Christian.



Sounds like something else I have heard, "would it hurt you to believe in Jesus?".

My answer is no but, that isn't being realistic.

Why do you need blind faith to be a good person? As in, you believe it because it helps you be a better person. Are you that awful that you feel you need help through a possible fantasy?

It has not happened yet, everyone will know it has happened. Millions of people gone at once. Then the bible states what will happen in the seven years following the rapture. and Just because you are a minister does not get you into heaven, believing through Jesus Christ gets you there.

Everyones faith can waiver from time to time and no you will not burn in hell for it.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
No. I believe it, regardless, but I acknowledge that I cannot be absolutely certain. My faith wavers and I might as well be honest about that.

I believe it because I think it's true, regardless of the benefit/cost to me. I do admit, however, that in a comparison between atheism and Christianity, there is no risk to me if I'm wrong, but that's not the reason I'm a Christian.

I certainly can respect that you admit to doubts. There is nothing wrong with what you believe - that is up to you & it harms nobody.

Conversely - it's hard for me to have any respect for a position where somebody says they are right and they have zero doubt.

Originally posted by DrewM
I wouldn't sweat it - it won't happen in your lifetime, or anybodies lifetime.

The rapture is like believing in UFO's

Jere - how many Jack Van Impe video's do you have on the shelf?

I'm not a big Jack Van Impe fan myself....and as far as the other section of your post. I dont know. Maybe it will happen in my lifetime, maybe it wont.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I'm not a big Jack Van Impe fan myself....and as far as the other section of your post. I dont know. Maybe it will happen in my lifetime, maybe it wont.
-----------------------------------------------------
Jere, what happens to those that it did not happen in their lifetime? The already dead.

Dan,

Those who are raptured are not the only people allowed into Heaven. Those that have went before us, are already there.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Dan,

Those who are raptured are not the only people allowed into Heaven. Those that have went before us, are already there.

As opposed to 90% of the innocent tsunami victims - who are all burning in hell right now because they happened to grow up in a non Christian country. Class act God !

"No offence Apu, but when they were handing out religions, you musta been out taking a whizz." Homer Simpson.

Originally posted by just me
Why do you need blind faith to be a good person?
I didn't know you needed blind faith to be a good person, so I really can't answer this.

Are you that awful that you feel you need help through a possible fantasy?
Yes

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like:

He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it; for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Luke 6:47-49

If in doubt just go back to quoting Bible verses. It always impresses and makes your point so effectively.

When you know the answer go back to God's Word..

And when you don't know the answer? Let me guess....Back to Bible verses also?

Jere, the reason I asked you about the past dead is while reading Revelation 20 vs.5 speaks of the first resurrection of the dead.

Then in vs.12 the dead is judged from the book of life "according to their works."
Then in vs.13 the sea and Hell gives up its dead and they were judged every man "by his works." Only THEN in vs.14 death and hell are cast into the lake of fire.

This stuff occurs toward the end of times that Revelation covers in the Bible.

Interesting to me that people were judged by their "works" which I suppose a prudent person would interpret to mean that if they were a good person they would be allowed into heaven.
By a good person I mean treated others well.

Originally posted by DrewM
If in doubt just go back to quoting Bible verses. It always impresses and makes your point so effectively.

It's a lot better than Simpsons verses Drew.:rolleyes:

Dan,

The bible makes it very clear that we are to be judged by our works. It never says that that is what gets us into heaven. In fact it tells us that it is by faith not works that we are saved.

Our eternal reward is based on works.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Our eternal reward is based on works.

So your works earn you points? and you get a nicer house in heaven?

Seems simplistic beyond belief.

I'll take Simpsons quotes over Bible quotes any day of the week. Bible quotes are just plain...yawn. Simpsons quotes are funny funny!

Originally posted by DrewM
I'll take Simpsons quotes over Bible quotes any day of the week. Bible quotes are just plain...yawn. Simpsons quotes are funny funny!
You can't put me on hold! I'll put YOU on hold! ::sings:: I am a lineman for the county...::speaks::...Your call is important to us. Please continue to hold...::sings::...And I drive the main roads...::speaks::...There are...EIGHT...calls ahead of you...::sings::...And the Wichita lineman is still on the LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALIIIIIIINE! ::hangs up::

Originally posted by DrewM
So your works earn you points? and you get a nicer house in heaven?

Seems simplistic beyond belief.

So you think those who obeyed God and did his work always should be treated worse than those than didnt?

COMMUNIST!:D

[QUOUTE]I'll take Simpsons quotes over Bible quotes any day of the week. Bible quotes are just plain...yawn. Simpsons quotes are funny funny! [/QUOTE]

Ive seen Borg use Bible quotes as jokes lots of times.:p