While I have no problem at all disussing the existence of God and the salvation of Christ and why non believers need both....

I really wish that this religion forum dealt with other matters of Christianity. Scripture, Confession, The Lord's Supper, etc etc.

If anyone is interested in any topic at all dealing with Christianity (and most denominations thats falls under that) I would love the opportunity to discuss them.

Thanks. That's all.

I would be open to discuss anything concerning God, Heaven, hell, Jesus, Rapture, etc.....

You are free to discuss what you wish.

The Rapture is a good topic. This is an example of taking the Bible literally. Given that you have now admitted finally that common sense should be used - I assume you have decided that the Rapture is not going to happen ?

That reminds me, I saw a good bumper sticker the other day. "In case of Rapture, can I have your car?"

Yes Rapture, the time when all good Christians go to Heaven.
Chosen above all people on the earth that did not worship as a Christian. The old believe as I do or die forever.
How vain, and vanity being one of their sins.
The Heavens will open up(heaven being the Arabic word for sky) and Jesus will appear and take up all those that are his sheep.
You would think that they are awaiting a flying saucer.
These are grown people that think these things.

I know the Christians are shaking their heads at this point, but you do not realize just how strange this sounds to a rational person. It's in the catagory of the 70 virgin thing.

If I had to pick one of man's religions to go with it probably would be the one offering 70 women vs. one promising eternal worship of a Supreme Being. I think the women would be a lot more fun.

I believe the rapture will happen as told in the bible.....

Originally posted by minister
I believe the rapture will happen as told in the bible.....
----------------

I guess you would have to, as far as I know it is the only place mentioned.

Jere, I admire your optimism, but I doubt that a serious discussion of Christianity can be had on this forum beyond defending it against attack. I hope I'm wrong, but I think a discussion would be something like this:

JEREJEREBINKS: Okay, today, let's discuss the rapture. Pre-trib? Post-trib?

DAN FASSEL: Not gonna happen. I've figured out God all by myself and I know best. I don't agree with man-made religions, so I made up my own.

BORGHUNTER: There is no God. I created a website that proves it.

BLIBBLOB: God is dead. I read it on Borg's website.

OVERDOSE: God is dead? Yaaaaay!! Grab your binky and let's go clubbin'!!

ECHO2: I've copied an article in the next seven posts that explains why God doesn't exist. I don't know the author and have no idea what he's talking about, but he hates Christians, so he must be right.

FREETHINKER: Some Christians voted for Bush. I hate them all.

DREWM: You can discuss whatever you like, as long as you realize that it's only your opinion, and that your opinion is wrong.

TRAVH2O: All you commie god-haters should go to Iraq and search for land mines.

LIONEL HUTZ: Hey, let's just everyone keep this God-talk to themselves and watch Aquateens.

CREETWINS: Hey, maybe god is just a big oreo cookie. You know, kind of hard and crunchy on the outside, but soft and sweet on the inside. My daughter eats oreos so I think this is a good idea.

MINISTER: I don't think God approves of the Aquateens. Lemme check my Bible. I think there's a verse in here somewhere.........

VILEPAGAN: I'd like to come in here and prove you all wrong,(And you know I could) but I'm too busy actually earning a living.

UNCOOLDUCK: Rapture? What's that? Wait. Don't tell me. Sounds painful.....

UnCoolDuck - :) Funny post - I like it.

I do think it's unfair to say that no serious discussion can be made. There is a lot serious discussion here - as serious as it could be under the circumstances.

I believe the rapture will happen as told in the bible.....

Minister - I think I will invoke your "use common sense" on this one. This is one of those sections you have cherry picked. The Bible doesn't say anything as fanciful as the sensationalized rapture stories you guys bandy about.

Either use common sense or don't be a hypocrite, or alternatively believe it all literally but make sure your kids don;t back chat you otherwise you know what you have to do.....You can't have it all ways. Pick a way and be true to it.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
Jere, I admire your optimism, but I doubt that a serious discussion of Christianity can be had on this forum beyond defending it against attack. I hope I'm wrong, but I think a discussion would be something like this:

JEREJEREBINKS: Okay, today, let's discuss the rapture. Pre-trib? Post-trib?

DAN FASSEL: Not gonna happen. I've figured out God all by myself and I know best. I don't agree with man-made religions, so I made up my own.

BORGHUNTER: There is no God. I created a website that proves it.

BLIBBLOB: God is dead. I read it on Borg's website.

OVERDOSE: God is dead? Yaaaaay!! Grab your binky and let's go clubbin'!!

ECHO2: I've copied an article in the next seven posts that explains why God doesn't exist. I don't know the author and have no idea what he's talking about, but he hates Christians, so he must be right.

FREETHINKER: Some Christians voted for Bush. I hate them all.

DREWM: You can discuss whatever you like, as long as you realize that it's only your opinion, and that your opinion is wrong.

TRAVH2O: All you commie god-haters should go to Iraq and search for land mines.

LIONEL HUTZ: Hey, let's just everyone keep this God-talk to themselves and watch Aquateens.

CREETWINS: Hey, maybe god is just a big oreo cookie. You know, kind of hard and crunchy on the outside, but soft and sweet on the inside. My daughter eats oreos so I think this is a good idea.

MINISTER: I don't think God approves of the Aquateens. Lemme check my Bible. I think there's a verse in here somewhere.........

VILEPAGAN: I'd like to come in here and prove you all wrong,(And you know I could) but I'm too busy actually earning a living.

UNCOOLDUCK: Rapture? What's that? Wait. Don't tell me. Sounds painful.....
Best. Post. Evar.

Uncoolduck: your post was great I really enjoyed it, thanks...


And yes I believe as it is said that Jesus will come to rapture his church (pre-trib). I believe what will come to follow with the 7 years of tribulation, the 144,000 witnesses and the two prophets from God preaching his word.

The stories of the bible are not that hard to believe when you know that God is doing these things, not mere men.

My children do not back talk me much, but at age 3 and 5 they can be kids, the bible does not tell me to kill them for it. I will expose them to Christ's teaching as well as many other things.

When does the Bible say rapture will happen?

Forgive me, I am new and haven't read all the posts yet if it has already been covered.

It does not give an exact date just descriptions of things that will happen before.

Originally posted by minister
It does not give an exact date just descriptions of things that will happen before.


Oh. Is it a short list or does it seem like it is years to come?

It does not seem like years in the sense of hundreds or thousands of years, according to the bible there are many things that could be said is talked of happening before the end. But Jesus said, he would come upon us like a thief in the night. There will be no big warning, it will just happen...

www.sinnerschurchofchrist.com

Originally posted by minister
It does not seem like years in the sense of hundreds or thousands of years, according to the bible there are many things that could be said is talked of happening before the end. But Jesus said, he would come upon us like a thief in the night. There will be no big warning, it will just happen...

www.sinnerschurchofchrist.com


Is it 12 signs? Trying to research a bit.

Do you want signs of the rapture or signs of the end of life as we know now, which is Christ's reign on earth for 1000 years.

Originally posted by minister
Do you want signs of the rapture or signs of the end of life as we know now, which is Christ's reign on earth for 1000 years.


Sorry, switched topics on you. lol

I came across some info on the end of the world while researching and got curious.

After Jesus comes back and raptures the church, there will be seven years of tribulation. During this time the prophecies from revelations are to be fulfilled, a third of the world will die, also the anti-christ will be in power. If your interested I can go down the prophecies before and after the rapture.......

UnCool, enjoyed your post.

Originally posted by minister
After Jesus comes back and raptures the church, there will be seven years of tribulation. During this time the prophecies from revelations are to be fulfilled, a third of the world will die, also the anti-christ will be in power. If your interested I can go down the prophecies before and after the rapture.......
Sounds like it's going to be a fun time. I'm still running my Borg for Anti-Christ campaign. I hope you'll vote for me come the Rapture. :)

Gee, thanks for your compliments on my last post guys. It only took me 8 months and 492 attempts to get one right:D

Originally posted by minister
After Jesus comes back and raptures the church, there will be seven years of tribulation. During this time the prophecies from revelations are to be fulfilled, a third of the world will die, also the anti-christ will be in power. If your interested I can go down the prophecies before and after the rapture.......

I'm interested, minister, in knowing when Mithra is going to return to save the world.......got any info on that??????

Jesus had already come to save the world. Next is rapture, tribulation and then judgement you and borg will enjoy that portion I am sure.

I find it hard to believe that any sane person can seriously believe in the rapture. To be honest it blows my mind.

Jesus had already come to save the world. Next is rapture, tribulation and then judgement you and borg will enjoy that portion I am sure.

I am sure they are, as I am, shaking in their boots.

God did not create only Christians. It must feel good to you to think your choice is right above anyone else's.

Originally posted by minister
Jesus had already come to save the world. Next is rapture, tribulation and then judgement you and borg will enjoy that portion I am sure.
Yup. Especially if Jesus will serve punch'n'pie. :) He will, won't he?!

Originally posted by creetwins
It must feel good to you to think your choice is right above anyone else's.

It gives them that warm fuzzy moral superiority complex that only religion can provide.

Oh how lucky lucky they are.

It's not a complex, I feel I am no better than anyone else or any more deserving of heaven. If any feeling comes to mind it is regret that more people do not come to god.

Yeah but seats on the rapture bus are limited to the chosen few.

Originally posted by minister
Jesus had already come to save the world. Next is rapture, tribulation and then judgement you and borg will enjoy that portion I am sure.

Do you get all giddy, imagining evil sinners like me being thrown ---by your wonderfully loving god-- into the fiery lake to suffer unimaginable torment forever?.......'cause, you know, it seems like you're inserting that sarcastic remark about how we'll **like that judgment part** for a reason.

But wait!......let me guess.....you don't feel *superior* to anyone or nuttin.......you'se just saying...............right?

It gives them that warm fuzzy moral superiority complex that only religion can provide.



It's not a complex, I feel I am no better than anyone else or any more deserving of heaven. If any feeling comes to mind it is regret that more people do not come to god.



Yeah but seats on the rapture bus are limited to the chosen few.

ROFL



Do you get all giddy, imagining evil sinners like me being thrown ---by your wonderfully loving god-- into the fiery lake to suffer unimaginable torment forever?.......'cause, you know, it seems like you're inserting that sarcastic remark about how we'll **like that judgment part** for a reason.


I am truly enjoying myself watching this thread......you guys are a blast!!!

God wishes for none to perish, and no it does not make me happy to see so many people making a joke of God. I pray for everyone to find God but I don't believe you can get there by good works, it is clear on that.

Originally posted by minister
God wishes for none to perish, and no it does not make me happy to see so many people making a joke of God. I pray for everyone to find God but I don't believe you can get there by good works, it is clear on that.
---------------------------------------
But Minister, I disagree with your last statement and I am no Christian, yet I believe good works are most necessary to find the Supreme Being. Even your Bible says to do only good works.
You say that the Biblical God wishes for none to parish. Yet, the Bible speaks of numerous people he either killed or had killed.
Are you sure we are reading from the same book?

Or was I not to take these things literaly from the Bible?

He didnt say to not do good works, only that just doing them wont find God.

You can be a wondeful nice caring person and still not know God. Right off the top of my head, Borg, Vile, Echo, etc, are all great people, and yet dont know God.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
He didnt say to not do good works, only that just doing them wont find God.

You can be a wondeful nice caring person and still not know God. Right off the top of my head, Borg, Vile, Echo, etc, are all great people, and yet dont know God.
--------------------------------------------------------

How do you know they do not know God! The truth may be that to be a great person is to know God.
Again, you use one book to speak against good people.

If your reading the bible we are reading the same book.....this book says God wishes that none should perish, that all shall be saved. If you truly know God you will do good works but thats not what gets you into heaven.

Here we go with that "...gets you into heaven" thing again.

This seems to be by far your #1 purpose. You talk of not much else.

Getting to heaven is definately a big purpose.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
OVERDOSE: God is dead? Yaaaaay!! Grab your binky and let's go clubbin'!!


HELLZ YES!!!!!! :):)

Again, my strong points are not religious debates. but yes, that sounds like me!

I can't stop laughing...HAHAHA yay! So funny! hehehe

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
---------------------------------------
But Minister, I disagree with your last statement and I am no Christian, yet I believe good works are most necessary to find the Supreme Being. Even your Bible says to do only good works.
You say that the Biblical God wishes for none to parish. Yet, the Bible speaks of numerous people he either killed or had killed.
Are you sure we are reading from the same book?

Or was I not to take these things literaly from the Bible?

I'd say what business is it of ours in how God conducts himself? He has no "explaining" to do to us. We aren't even worthy of being saved, anything we receive from God is out of sheer Grace. Man will NEVER be able to comprehend or understand how God thinks or is....to believe so is foolish

Originally posted by Decka
I'd say what business is it of ours in how God conducts himself? He has no "explaining" to do to us. We aren't even worthy of being saved, anything we receive from God is out of sheer Grace. Man will NEVER be able to comprehend or understand how God thinks or is....to believe so is foolish

That's like saying parents have absolutely no responsibility their kids. I for one don't have such a low opinion of human worth as you appear to do, so your idea sounds a bit strange to me.

But it does sound like a line directly from brainwashing 101 - Chapter3 - "Effective ways of thinking to remove all traces of free thought in under 30 days."

Bravo - you got the diploma !

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Revelation 3:3

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Revelation 22:12

Originally posted by minister


And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Revelation 22:12

This quote kind of rules out good people going to hell.

Originally posted by Overdose
HELLZ YES!!!!!! :):)

Again, my strong points are not religious debates. but yes, that sounds like me!

I can't stop laughing...HAHAHA yay! So funny! hehehe

Glad you liked it. I come here primarily to entertain myself, and if someone else is entertained along the way, that's an extra added bonus.:D

Originally posted by Decka
I'd say what business is it of ours in how God conducts himself? He has no "explaining" to do to us. We aren't even worthy of being saved, anything we receive from God is out of sheer Grace. Man will NEVER be able to comprehend or understand how God thinks or is....to believe so is foolish
---------------

I question men, not God.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
Glad you liked it. I come here primarily to entertain myself, and if someone else is entertained along the way, that's an extra added bonus.:D
------------------------------------------

Uncool, I like you attitude. I also enjoy it.

Originally posted by DrewM
Here we go with that "...gets you into heaven" thing again.

This seems to be by far your #1 purpose. You talk of not much else.

Maybe because reaching Heaven IS everything. It's above all else.

Oh, and in regard to your comment about the self worth of people....I think humblness is an excellent measure of a man. One who is afraid to be humble, especially at the feet of the one who created and offers savior to him, is not a man in my book.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Maybe because reaching Heaven IS everything. It's above all else.

Oh, and in regard to your comment about the self worth of people....I think humblness is an excellent measure of a man. One who is afraid to be humble, especially at the feet of the one who created and offers savior to him, is not a man in my book.

Well thats an opinion I guess. Desire for something you cannot be 100% certain of (whatever you might say to the contrary) vs a real life you have now with actual real priorities.

I agree with you about humility - but humility is not the same thing as saying we are not worthy. That is lack of worth, humility is being humble about worth you know you have. Not the same thing.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
------------------------------------------

Uncool, I like you attitude. I also enjoy it.

You'd better quit saying stuff like that. People will start to question your sanity ;)

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Maybe because reaching Heaven IS everything. It's above all else.

wow jerejere, how are you ever going to enjoy life if all you can think about is what's going to happen to you after you're dead? and if your only motivation for doing things is to reach heaven...doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose? you're just working for the reward after all.

Originally posted by sputnik
wow jerejere, how are you ever going to enjoy life if all you can think about is what's going to happen to you after you're dead? and if your only motivation for doing things is to reach heaven...doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose? you're just working for the reward after all.

Sputnik...

It charms me that you come out of nowhere and begin to suppose as though you know my purpose in Christianity. If you know me, I always say Heaven should never be a fire escape.

I am not only a Christian so that I can be in Heaven, I also enjoy doing work for Christ. I have so much to thank him for. So much to praise him for.

Originally posted by DrewM
Well thats an opinion I guess. Desire for something you cannot be 100% certain of (whatever you might say to the contrary) vs a real life you have now with actual real priorities.

I agree with you about humility - but humility is not the same thing as saying we are not worthy. That is lack of worth, humility is being humble about worth you know you have. Not the same thing.

Lets do a hypothetical scenario. Let's pretend we were passing each other on the street. I see someone out of my eye about to shoot you. I jump in front of you and take the bullet.

Would you have deserved such a thing? Would you be thankful beyond "belief."?

Uncool - that was a great post about how we all would respond. Thank you for making me chuckle.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Maybe because reaching Heaven IS everything. It's above all else.

Finally the truth comes out. Christians don't do good for the mere sake of doing it. They do it to get to heaven. Sure glad I don't have to be threatened with fire and brimstone to act like a decent human being. Mayby this whole religious suoperstition is actually doing some good. Keeping the crazy's and phycho's that don't have a conscience from doing bad things. They just gota get to heaven above all else. They could care less about what they are doing, it's the reason they are doing it that concerns them i.e. getting to heaven.

How awfull it must be to not have an internal conscience and have to go by an external source to determin right from wrong. Consider the lack of connection to your humanity it must take to have to do that.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I am not only a Christian so that I can be in Heaven, I also enjoy doing work for Christ. I have so much to thank him for. So much to praise him for.

This is a great point. Let's say that Christian doctrine stated that after death you went to the grave and that was it. I would still be a Christian because I think the Christian life is so great.

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 15:18-19


But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.


John 15:21

Originally posted by Echo2
Finally the truth comes out. Christians don't do good for the mere sake of doing it. They do it to get to heaven. Sure glad I don't have to be threatened with fire and brimstone to act like a decent human being. Mayby this whole religious suoperstition is actually doing some good. Keeping the crazy's and phycho's that don't have a conscience from doing bad things. They just gota get to heaven above all else. They could care less about what they are doing, it's the reason they are doing it that concerns them i.e. getting to heaven.

How awfull it must be to not have an internal conscience and have to go by an external source to determin right from wrong. Consider the lack of connection to your humanity it must take to have to do that.

Echo, You should really learn to quit trying to make points after theyve already been made.:rolleyes:....and answered.