Should the topic of Supreme Being (God) really be considered scientific research or religion?
Religions being mans means of worship.
Science being more investigative.
Religions are closed loops.
Science is open to possibilities.

Would an appropriate heading for those on a quest for knowledge of, or proof of, a supreme being something like
"The Science of God!"

I personally believe that contact with a Supreme Being takes investigative work of the individual in the relms of personal mental awareness.

At the same time others feel that merely following the rules of an established religion (method of worship) is sufficient.

Some people wrongly seem to get the idea that anyone speaking negatively about their personal religion is automatically saying there is no God.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Should the topic of Supreme Being (God) really be considered scientific research or religion?

Religion is NOT science. There is nothing scientific about it. It is founded in faith.

Religions being mans means of worship.
Science being more investigative.
Religions are closed loops.
Science is open to possibilities.

Would an appropriate heading for those on a quest for knowledge of, or proof of, a supreme being something like
"The Science of God!"

How about the search for god?

I personally believe that contact with a Supreme Being takes investigative work of the individual in the relms of personal mental awareness.

YES! A connection must be made to ones humanity and conscience.

At the same time others feel that merely following the rules of an established religion (method of worship) is sufficient.

Some people wrongly seem to get the idea that anyone speaking negatively about their personal religion is automatically saying there is no God.

Very religious people are threatened by others putting down their religion because they have based their entire life and suposed afterlife on that one ideal. When that ideal is dis'd by others it is very threatening to them and they lash out.

Echo, I am not saying religion is a science.
I am asking if the search for God should be a science.
Done by scientific methods.

To me Religions are not a search for the Supreme Being but a method of worshiping a God(s) in a particular manner.

I totally seperate Religion and the Supreme being.

The existance of a Supreme being would not require a religion.

I think niether.

Science is about cause and effect in the phsyical realm.

Religion is spiritual truth turned into robot like Dogma. Like a God 101 for idiots.

My view tends to be that the supreme being falls under the self actualization line of study.

Not to change the subject here, but with Islam religion = science, in nothing so far has Islam ever contradicted science.

I can give proof if you want.

Fire away with the proof then, but if it even gets slightly like your going to quote the bible/Koran then dont bother, Minister doesnt win his arguments like that, and i doubt you will either.

The above sounds hostile, it isnt, just not sure how to rephrase to make it sound nicer

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Should the topic of Supreme Being (God) really be considered scientific research or religion?

I would think God and science would be the same. If science can prove things to us, then I would say this would allready be the higher powers proof.


Science being more investigative.

Investigative to us, but not to a higher power that would have all the answers.


Religions are closed loops.
Science is open to possibilities.

Mans teachings are closed loops usually caused by the narrow mind. Religion and science are really one in the same.

Would an appropriate heading for those on a quest for knowledge of, or proof of, a supreme being something like
"The Science of God!"

Wouldn't God allready be science?

I personally believe that contact with a Supreme Being takes investigative work of the individual in the relms of personal mental awareness.

I also believe this way

At the same time others feel that merely following the rules of an established religion (method of worship) is sufficient.

They are trying to fill a void in their life, it makes things alot easier if you have others with you then traveling alone.

Some people wrongly seem to get the idea that anyone speaking negatively about their personal religion is automatically saying there is no God.

People are taught all through their life to believe a certain thing then bang, they find out others want proof or can show false teachings in (some of)what they where taught, so of course they get offended. It makes them question what thier religion has taught and most big religions will not take questioning lightly. So instead of questions it is easier just to except because no one wants to be shunned by their religion or those that think somewhat like them.

Originally posted by mad dog

People are taught all through their life to believe a certain thing then bang, they find out others want proof or can show false teachings in (some of)what they where taught, so of course they get offended. It makes them question what thier religion has taught and most big religions will not take questioning lightly. So instead of questions it is easier just to except because no one wants to be shunned by their religion or those that think somewhat like them.
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Then it is a possibility that people many times merely accept the local religion to "fit in" or be accepted by the people around them.
To question would be inviting the shunning you speak of.
Yes, many may merely go thru the motions of religion while harboring silent doubts.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Then it is a possibility that people many times merely accept the local religion to "fit in" or be accepted by the people around them.

Yes, just take a look at where one lives as to how they believe. There are those that truely believe in Christ, and there are those that are scared into believing in Christ, then there are those that just go with the flow because that is what mom, pop, grandma, grandpa, friends, neighbors etc.. do. I am only using Christianity as an example because that is the most common {big} religion in the states.


To question would be inviting the shunning you speak of.
Yes, many may merely go thru the motions of religion while harboring silent doubts.

This is what I believe, because I have talked to many folks that have flat out told me.

In the West Science and Religion are different but any true Religion is scientific.

If God is truly out there then Science cannot oppose Religion. they should both be a quest for truth. Only if your religious ideas are a farce can Science differ from what you believe.

Scientific religions include Hinduism (in particular Yoga), Zen Bhuddism, and Quantum Physics.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Fire away with the proof then, but if it even gets slightly like your going to quote the bible/Koran then dont bother, Minister doesnt win his arguments like that, and i doubt you will either.

How else do you propose I show you the proof? If I want to prove something that has to do with Islam then I have to link the proof with it.
On any level, here:

http://www.islamonline.com/cgi-bin/news_service/spot_full_story.asp?service_id=647

(and btw, it's not a case of winning arguments I have no interest in that I don't treat religious matters as some sort of competition, this is just to show you)

Originally posted by Ed Blank
any true Religion is scientific.

If God is truly out there then Science cannot oppose Religion.

I absolutely agree.

Science is the result of experiments and test down on the dirt level. Man follows science to build buildings, cars, airplanes and societies. Man who follows science prospers and that is his motivation to follow science. Mohammand could not tell you how to build a watch. Mohammand didn't know the earth revolved around the Sun. Mohammand didn't know about sperm and ovaries. Why didn't God tell Jesus or Mohammand about science?

Religions are the result of Philosophy from a men sitting on mountains and coming up with rules for mankind to follow.
These rules are often enforced by the sword and by known science.

We have need for both science but both can be benefical or dangerous. Fire can warm our homes and move our cars and aircraft but all these things are killers if misused. Religion can give us peace of mind, social togetherness and sturcture in life but carried to extreme it becomes tyranny.

old reb

Originally posted by old-reb
Science is the result of experiments and test down on the dirt level. Man follows science to build buildings, cars, airplanes and societies. Man who follows science prospers and that is his motivation to follow science. Mohammand could not tell you how to build a watch. Mohammand didn't know the earth revolved around the Sun. Mohammand didn't know about sperm and ovaries. Why didn't God tell Jesus or Mohammand about science?

Religions are the result of Philosophy from a men sitting on mountains and coming up with rules for mankind to follow.
These rules are often enforced by the sword and by known science.

We have need for both science but both can be benefical or dangerous. Fire can warm our homes and move our cars and aircraft but all these things are killers if misused. Religion can give us peace of mind, social togetherness and sturcture in life but carried to extreme it becomes tyranny.

old reb

"IN THE WEST" Science and Religion are different. All Abrahamic religions (Judiaism, Christianity, and Islam) are Western religions.

Look at the Zen Bhuddist monks who developed different styles of martial arts. That is their religion. They can actually learn to break bricks, walk up walls (Jackie Chan does it in every other movie), and kill with one blow. Yogis can stop their hearts from beating and survive subzero temperatures for days.

Ancient Hindu literature DOES talk about planets, atoms, and flying machines WAAAAYY before Gallileo "invented" the telescope. This is these people's religion. Because their sprituality is intertwined with science, they can do seemingly incredible things with their bodies and minds.

Ed, it seems that the religions you mention using the science of the mind to further the abilities of man accomplish much more that the religions that are what I call closed loop. The closed loop religions depend on a God to handle all their problems and reward or repremand in the here-after according to a set of rules lived by when alive.

True Eastern religions teach a closeness with all that is to fully magnify man's abilities here and now.

Jesus was clearly Eastern in his approach to religion. Some say he was teaching Bhuddism after goig east from age 13 to 30 something.

Originally posted by Ed Blank
"IN THE WEST" Science and Religion are different. All Abrahamic religions (Judiaism, Christianity, and Islam) are Western religions.

Look at the Zen Bhuddist monks who developed different styles of martial arts. That is their religion. They can actually learn to break bricks, walk up walls (Jackie Chan does it in every other movie), and kill with one blow. Yogis can stop their hearts from beating and survive subzero temperatures for days.

Ancient Hindu literature DOES talk about planets, atoms, and flying machines WAAAAYY before Gallileo "invented" the telescope. This is these people's religion. Because their sprituality is intertwined with science, they can do seemingly incredible things with their bodies and minds.

That is a good point that I had over looked all my life.

Eastern religion: I have a friend with arthritis so bad that no medical doctor could help but he went for acupuncture and was cured in a few weeks. He has to go back about twice a year. But then is acupuncture from religion of science?

old reb

Originally posted by old-reb
That is a good point that I had over looked all my life.

Eastern religion: I have a friend with arthritis so bad that no medical doctor could help but he went for acupuncture and was cured in a few weeks. He has to go back about twice a year. But then is acupuncture from religion of science?

old reb

Accupuncture is a medical treatment but it is based on spritual beliefs about chakras (energy vortexes in the body) and chi (life energy).

Originally posted by old-reb
Mohammand could not tell you how to build a watch. Mohammand didn't know the earth revolved around the Sun. Mohammand didn't know about sperm and ovaries.

(b4 i start, it's Muhammad not Mohammand ;) )

old-reb
I beg to differ, I can get proof from the quran for you if you want. The Quran has everything.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
I am not saying religion is a science.
I am asking if the search for God should be a science.
Done by scientific methods.

Using science to initiate a search for a "God" is akin to using science to attempt to prove the existence of the Tooth Fairy.

IOW, pointless.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Using science to initiate a search for a "God" is akin to using science to attempt to prove the existence of the Tooth Fairy.

IOW, pointless.
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Freethinker, interesting name you have chosen to be so closed minded. :)

A scientific search for the Tooth Fairy would find that an adult was placing money under the pillow in exchange for the tooth. A child retelling the story would be proven to be telling a truthful story in which he had placed a tooth under the pillow and it had been replaced with money. The method explained by the scientific investigation.

What we call the actions of a God may one day be understood by man kind. What we see as a myth may be a perfectly explainable phenomena. We, as a species, are in our infant stage of awareness. Certain individuals are more aware than others.
Certain individuals are atune to something that many are not.
Many wear the blinders of handed down beliefs and do not expand themselves in the direction of total awareness of the resourses that can be tapped for personal expansion.

The key is there, few find it, few seek it.
The proper investigation could find the scientific explaination.

The bilble has this science, it states the earth was round and hung unsupported in space. It also states that man and woman had the seed of life, there are so many statements that were proven true through science in the bible.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Using science to initiate a search for a "God" is akin to using science to attempt to prove the existence of the Tooth Fairy.

IOW, pointless.

People have been doing it for thousands of years (seeking God, not the Tooth Fairy). I have already mentioned Zen Monks and Yogis preforming fantastic feats by tuning in.

Ask God to reveal something to you and see if the answer falls into your lap (it may not be the answer you are looking for!).

One last question Mr SmartyButt:

How did the dirt learn to walk?

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
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Freethinker, interesting name you have chosen to be so closed minded. :)

Au contraire. I am extremely open minded. Go search for omnipotent deities all you like. It is simply my opinion that using scientific methods of experimentation and observation to seek a metaphysical deity would be counter-productive and fruitless.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
A scientific search for the Tooth Fairy would find that an adult was placing money under the pillow in exchange for the tooth. A child retelling the story would be proven to be telling a truthful story in which he had placed a tooth under the pillow and it had been replaced with money. The method explained by the scientific investigation.

True......in similar fashion, a scientific search for invisible deities would find their existence unfalsifiable and thus not a candidate for proof by the scientific method. A person infected with the religious meme (i.e, a mind virus) would be proven to be making a fantastic claim for which not a shred of empirical proof exists......similar to the unshakeable belief by many of the young that an entity named *Santa Claus* exists.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Many... do not expand themselves in the direction of total awareness of the resourses that can be tapped for personal expansion.

Tapping into one's personal awarensss does not prove the existence of a metaphysical deity.


Originally posted by Dan Fussell
The proper investigation could find the scientific explaination.

The belief in supernatural deities can indeed be explained by science.

Science refers to it as *superstition*.

\Su`per*sti"tion\, n. [F. superstition, L.
superstitio, fr. superstare to stand over; super over +
stare to stand.
1.[n] an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear.

2. An ignorant or irrational worship of a Supreme Deity.

Originally posted by Ed Blank
They can actually learn to break bricks, walk up walls (Jackie Chan does it in every other movie), and kill with one blow. Yogis can stop their hearts from beating and survive subzero temperatures for days.]

Any healthy person can do these tricks, the problem is that most won't learn, have fear, think it's crazy, etc.... It takes alot of concentration, and focus. I have broken foundation blocks with one blow of the hand once a person learns how to control the strength it actually becomes easy. The biggest thing to do is become one with mind body and what ever you are trying to break.... bricks, wood, etc.... Now just because a person can break a block does not mean they will be able to break a 4" thick piece of steal, everything has its limits. We all have the ability to do the {somewhat}same things it just depends on how a person excepts if they except at all.

Originally posted by mad dog
Any healthy person can do these tricks, the problem is that most won't learn, have fear, think it's crazy, etc.... It takes alot of concentration, and focus. I have broken foundation blocks with one blow of the hand once a person learns how to control the strength it actually becomes easy. The biggest thing to do is become one with mind body and what ever you are trying to break.... bricks, wood, etc.... Now just because a person can break a block does not mean they will be able to break a 4" thick piece of steal, everything has its limits. We all have the ability to do the {somewhat}same things it just depends on how a person excepts if they except at all.

This focusing of the mind, the brick, and the body: did it involve any sort of established method (Zen, Yoga etc...) ?

(In my estimation becoming one with a brick is entirely spiritual.)

Ed Blank;

I have never taken a class, training, etc... of any type of Zen, Yoga, etc.... I did have some understanding of the fighting arts but that is it. The biggest thing is concentration, you have to believe that the object will break, you can not have fear. If you doubt yourself in the least then expect a broken hand. I started with boards, you have to hit through the board not the board itself. You have to see the board breaking and have belief in yourself. If you ever get a chance to try this with the help of someone that knows what they are doing you should try, you might just amaze yourself. I would not do this unless you have some idea of what you are doing. If a person can not connect with everything then they will get hurt.