Do people have any good reason or evidence to bash religion the way they do, does anyone ever research anything before just saying I must be right other people think the same way. For people who have no belief in god all I can say is the proof is every where your just not looking, "for I was blind and can now see", that actually means something when you do start believing and turn your life over to god you can really see and feel his spirit on you, God performs miracles daily and people ignore them. Bible prophecy comes true all the time and has most people do not even know anything about, all I can say is I pray for you lost people out there that think this is all there is because you will probably never see the truth because you look for it being blind.
My prayers are with everyone....www.sinnerschurchofchrist.com (http://www.sinnerschurchofchrist.com)

yes, but there is some historical evidence of a guy named Jesus. Believing that a Jesus figure existed doesn't make you a christian and it certainly doesn't make you think heaven is a place paved with gold.

Also, an acceptance of a higher power and the existance of miracles also doesn't make you a christian.

I believe Jesus was a real person, but the son of God...I don't know. Seems unlikely.

For people who have no belief in god all I can say is the proof is every where your just not looking,

Where is the proof? Is it just things you call miracles? There are many examples of other events that would cancel out any "miracles"...for instance, this weekend's earthquake/tsunami.

The title of this thread asks about the "basis of anti-religion"...just look to your original post. Calling people "lost" because they don't believe what you believe? I consider myself an agnostic because there is not proof that we were created by God or by evolution or by a Big Bang...its all possible, but the ones I would call "blind" are the ones who believe any of those are absolutely true without knowing for sure.

To believe nothing in spite of God is only the worst thing you can do, and if you knew scripture of any kind or had done any research before taking the easy way out and believing nothing, you would know why things like the tsunami and other horrible events happen, it's just gonna get worse just as predicted by the bible, read up you'll learn something

Originally posted by minister
To believe nothing in spite of God is only the worst thing you can do, and if you knew scripture of any kind or had done any research before taking the easy way out and believing nothing, you would know why things like the tsunami and other horrible events happen, it's just gonna get worse just as predicted by the bible, read up you'll learn something
Ha, it's funny how you presume that anyone who is not Christian is ignorant. Believe me, I'm not, and neither is DNA.

As for "the easy way out". You think it was easy telling myself that, in all likelihood, after I die I just...die? Nothing more? It's a disturbing thought, but I have since managed to come to terms with it.

I'm sad to hear that you feel that way, that is a terrible thing to have to come to grips with.....The bible says that there are some people who hearts are so hardened that even if god himself said I'm here, they wouldn't listen.....I will pray for you. for God would like to see none perish but all be saved.....

Originally posted by minister
I'm sad to hear that you feel that way, that is a terrible thing to have to come to grips with.....The bible says that there are some people who hearts are so hardened that even if god himself said I'm here, they wouldn't listen.....I will pray for you. for God would like to see none perish but all be saved.....
I'm agnostic. If God came down and did something supernatural, I'd likely be skeptical that it was some charlatan. But if sufficient evidence existed, yes, I would believe in a deity.

Sounds like you would have doubts no mattered what happened to you and for that I am sad for you, people think for some reason christians just believe with no basis for fact in history, when that is far from the truth, I pray that you and everyone finds that relationship with god that we all need and were born to have...

Originally posted by minister
Sounds like you would have doubts no mattered what happened to you
Of course. Blind belief is inherently bad.

I believe Jesus lived. Just a damn shame Christians screwed up his messages to mankind by omitting or altering that which did not fit their "religion." He was far ahead of his time. Wish I could read his entire life and sayings without the religion crap.

No one has any proof that I am wrong in the above statements.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
I believe Jesus lived. Just a damn shame Christians screwed up his messages to mankind by omitting or altering that which did not fit their "religion." He was far ahead of his time. Wish I could read his entire life and sayings without the religion crap.

No one has any proof that I am wrong in the above statements. Thats right. Just as you have absolutely no proof you are right. You just choose to condemn all Christians for the acts of some. Congratulations on your prejudice.

Originally posted by minister
.. if you knew scripture of any kind or had done any research before taking the easy way out and believing nothing, you would know why things like the tsunami and other horrible events happen, it's just gonna get worse just as predicted by the bible, read up you'll learn something

Newsflash - the earth's crust is made of tectonic plates - they move and cause earthquakes. Have done so for the past millions of years and will do for millions of years to come.

You expect people to "see the light" with your typical religious nut-case condescending holier than thou bullshit. How about working on getting people to take you seriously before working up to the heady business of saving souls?

It is possible there was a man{Jesus} that walked this earth, about the rest I doubt it, but I'm open to any proof out there.

Originally posted by minister
Bible prophecy comes true all the time

NO IT DOESN'T People's interpertations come true in their minds. The Bible may have a message and good stories but it is not a fortune cookie.

HavVok, How did I condemn anyone to anything.
I started out with "I believe." I assumed that everyone knew that anyone writting the bible is now long dead and that I did not have to point this fact out. Present Christians are merely followers, to various degrees, of much older writtings.

Hard for me to believe that a man as knowledgeable as Jesus only had a few lines of reference in a book filled with many wasted words of who begat who, how old everyone was, etc.

Yes, I know all about tectonic plates, and I think I am holier than no one.......

quarter of the way through the bible and still its not at any moment made me want to switch sides.
I believe pretty much in the power of mans ability to pursue personal power and because of that im hoping we should see some pretty amazing technological leaps, and when we do and when we all leave this planet it will be interesting to see the little christians visit the other planets and for the more intellegent beings out there to pat them on the head and smile.

Still, for the moment God does offer those whom seek it, purpose in an otherwise unfulfilled life and allows them to feel part of something.

I find the idea of handing yourself over to god quite funny though, as if when we converted you would simply hand over your soul and say "Right off ya go, start directing me since i wont be making my own choices from now on"

taking the easy way out and believing nothing

See, there you go again...just because I don't believe what you believe does not mean I "believe nothing". Just because you believe what you read in the Bible to be "proof" does not make it so.

Its like UFOs. Apparently, you would believe UFOs & aliens exist...there are too many accounts of sightings and abductions, so to "believe nothing in spite of this would be taking the easy way out". I believe its possible they exist but without proof I'm not going to blindly assume.

You keep vaguely mentioning proof...what is your proof? And don't tell me that you read the Bible and were convinced...tell me specifically what YOU read in the Bible that would prove it to ME.

I don't believe anything would prove it to you, I will pray for you though.

I don't believe anything would prove it to you, I will pray for you though.

Typical avoidance of someone who really has no proof. Good thing you're not a lawyer...if you had an arguement you knew to be true but one the jury would find unbelievable you would probably say "why bother telling them the truth, they won't believe it anyway".

If you really believe and you really think you have proof, and you are really worried and praying for all of us who are so lost because we don't believe, then you would be willing to share your proof whether you thought we would believe you or not. Did Jesus only preach to the believers?

You listen but you don't hear. No amount of proof will change mind sets like yours, Jesus preached to all but only believers understood the meaning of his parables. Nothing I can say will satisfy your desire to be right and keep a closed mind, prayer is the only option We have.

Originally posted by minister
You listen but you don't hear. No amount of proof will change mind sets like yours, Jesus preached to all but only believers understood the meaning of his parables. Nothing I can say will satisfy your desire to be right and keep a closed mind, prayer is the only option We have.
The only reason any nontheists on this board don't believe in God is because there is no evidence. You seem to be dancing around the topic, and the only conclusion I can come to is that you have none.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by minister
To believe nothing in spite of God is only the worst thing you can do, and if you knew scripture of any kind or had done any research before taking the easy way out and believing nothing, you would know why things like the tsunami and other horrible events happen, it's just gonna get worse just as predicted by the bible, read up you'll learn something

Get a grip. Most of the etheists and agnostic people I know have more knowledge of the bible than the average person who calls themself a christian. I spent 18 years in parochial school and studied theology in college. I am no stranger to the bible.

Do not fall into the trap of believing that anyone that denies god - is ignorant of christian scripture. The majority of them have done much reserach and soul searching before coming to their decision.

Denying god when one grows up christian and lives in a christian society is not a lightly made decision. Logic must prevail over a very well founded and ingrained superstition.

I agree with you that there are many "christians" that know little or nothing about the bible. You would think more people would research a topic of such importance. When and what made you decide there was no God. What did it for you.....Interested.....

You listen but you don't hear.

I listened and many times heard you avoid answering the question.

No amount of proof will change mind sets like yours

I also hear you being wrong. I can be persuaded to believe in something given some substantial proof or reason. That is how I have come to believe in all the things I believe in.

Jesus preached to all but only believers understood the meaning of his parables

Exactly! That was my point about Jesus. He even preached to the non-believers...you only want to preach to who you think are the believers.

Nothing I can say will satisfy your desire to be right and keep a closed mind

Right about what??? I haven't come to a conclusion that God exists or doesn't exist, I've admited I don't know...so what is my "desire to be right"? I'm open to all options, if you have proof that God exists, I'm listening...if you have proof he doesn't exist, I'm listening. So, I'm listening....

prayer is the only option We have.

I'm confused about why you keep praying for us. I am a good person and people like you always tell me that in spite of being good I won't get into heaven because I don't acknowledge God's existence. So, isn't it a waste of time to pray for us "non-believers"? Instead of trying to save us with prayer, shouldn't you save us by convincing us to believe in God by using some of that proof you have? In fact, if I don't get into heaven because I have not acknowledged God's existence, you will be partly to blame for not revealing that proof you have...won't God be made at you?

God says the only way to change a non believers heart is by prayer and not by our own accord. It's not like, I don't wish just being a good person could get you into heaven. That would be great, I have family who would be better that way, but that is not how it is. I don't just want to talk to believers, I would rather talk to non-believers that's why I keep responding. I was not raised Christian, there was no talk of God in my house. When I grew up I started looking into it, after many years and much research and reading both sides, my eyes were opened. The reason we pray for you is so all may go to heaven as God has said. People always wonder why christians try to talk to other people about it, and it is because Jesus tell us to continue his work in the name of god til he returns to rapture his church.

Originally posted by minister
God says the only way to change a non believers heart is by prayer and not by our own accord.
Trust me, that will get you nowhere with me. You have been incapable of providing any evidence to support your side so far; why should I believe a word you say?

You refuse to see evidence you dismiss everything, don't believe my words believe the word of God. Read the words of Jesus...

The only way what you say could be credible is if you said God was trying to build an army of missfits. That's pretty much the only group that's going to feel a connection with your brand of the gospel.

I have no brand. The gospel is the word and the word is god. I believe the bible is to be taken literal as do millions of christians. I believe the Bible to be God's word therefore being total truth.

You speak of misfits, I would rather be in with the misfits in the presence of God then considered normal and enjoy eternal damnation.

I have no gospel, I follow the word of God as written in the Bible and you say misfit. Everything I have said is in the Bible it's not mine it is gods.

Originally posted by minister
You refuse to see evidence you dismiss everything, don't believe my words believe the word of God. Read the words of Jesus...
Okay, look. I have read the Bible, and I see no reason to believe it's true. You say that it is, but you give no reason to believe so. You say I refuse to see evidence, but that's impossible because I keep asking you for it and you never give it to me. I get the distinct feeling that you have none and you refuse to admit it. Is this the case?

Borg - it's one of those convenient circular proofs - the Bible says it is the word of God so the Bible is proof unto itself. Makes complete sense when you are insane.

I have found much evidence for the existence of God , but the greatest evidence for me is God's Spirit itself which makes itself manifest to me. I know that God exists because He works and dwells in me. The Spirit of God is available to all who will turn to and cease to resist Him. The Spirit will work in you and change you into the person that God would have you to be.

"no man has seen God" (I Jn. 4: 12). God is invisible and intangible (Rom. 1: 20, Jn. 4: 24). Hence, we approach God "by faith" (Heb. 11: 6, Gen. 1: 1). However, there is scientific proof that God exists (not to exclude faith): a case in point being creation implies a Creator. Let us now notice some revealing truths about God from science itself.

Biogenesis – attests to life begets life. This may sound shocking to some but true science rejects the hypothesis that "life came from nothingness." The scientific law of biogenesis requires life begetting life. According to the Genesis’ account of creation, God was the present and active force behind all creation (Gen. 1: 3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24, 26, 29). Notice the repeated occurrence of "and God said…." The particulars and sequence of the Genesis’ account agrees with established science. Thus, all who subscribe to the tenets of Darwinian evolution (life came from nothingness) are not scientific.

Paleontology – witnesses the validity of the Genesis’ account. When we refer to paleontology we are alluding to the fossil record. If some were not so closed minded, they would appreciate that the biblical account of creation and the science of paleontology are in harmony. For instance, there is a mixture of the simple and the complex (Gen. 1: 1, 2 "without form," 3-25, and earth with all the complexities, consummating in man, vss. 21, 27).

In the account of creation, life suddenly appears, fully formed (Gen. 1: 20, 21, 24, 27, 28). Paleontology also teaches the sudden introduction of mature life. There is no intimation of gradation, either in Genesis or the fossil record. Life was created mature and ready to reproduce (ibid.).

In this same vein, the record in Genesis explains why there are no transitional forms (a tadpole developing into man, i.e., all the progressive developmental stages...). The fossil record also presents evidence consistent with Genesis – no transitional forms.

Just think how the Genesis’ flood would have and did impact the fossil record (Gen. 7; 8). You would have universal fossil evidence of life forms being suddenly fossilized, often in stratum of dense mud, rock, and/or ice. Paleontology reveals fossil facts that are consistent and corresponding to the effects of the Genesis’ flood. Indeed, there is undeniable paleontological evidence of severe geological, atmospheric, and hydrological changes to the earth – just as would have been produced by such a great catastrophe as the flood described in Genesis chapters seven and eight.

Thermodynamics – a running down process. In common parlance, science indicates the universe did not evolve and continue to improve, but rather the converse. To advance organic evolution is to contradict this scientific second law of thermodynamics. The truth of the Bible is that there is a "running down" of the universe (Heb. 1: 10-12).

The law of genetics – informs us of order. There is order and perpetuity of life in the biblical account of creation. Notice how each was to produce "after their own kind" (Gen. 1: 11, 21, 25). Science does not identify God, but it does necessarily imply God. A man, any man, or group of men, would have been totally beyond known contemporary science, irreconcilably beyond, I might add, (contemporary to the writing of Genesis) in setting forth all the creation information resident in the Genesis’ account. To believe that fallible man could have been responsible for the Genesis’ record is unimaginably ludicrous!

Intelligent reader, biogenesis tells us life begets life, paleontology confirms the account in Genesis, thermodynamics points to creation rather than organic evolution, and the science of genetics reveals some of the complexities and order of the introduction of life and its propagation.

True science reveals the reality of God, but the Bible alone reveals the "person" of God the Creator and his will (see "The Godhead" in Great Truths and also "The Truth About Man," in Archives).

But - the "spirit of God" is not exclusive to Christianity. There are billions of non christians feeling the "spirit of God".

I see nothing wrong with 99% of christian beliefs - it's just when you say "believe what I believe or you are screwed" then it goes off the rails.

In essense there is practically no difference between you and those guys with the addidas sneakers & purple cloths on their heads.

It's not like we just decided, lets make it this way or no way. The rules were not set by man, so who are we to say the rules are wrong.

Matthew 13:47-50 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and
gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the
good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: The angels shall
come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire:
There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a
physician, but they that are sick.

John 10:36-38 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou
blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me
not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
Father is in me, and I in him.

Luke 13:23-24 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said
unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and
shall not be able.

Yep - and there are other religious books saying stuff also.

You have let your mind drift into some kind of brainwash zone where all reason is rejected.

What's the point in even arguing about religion??? I mean, is anyone here really going to change their minds because of something some schmuck 1000 miles away says?
I sure as hell won't...
Maybe instead of arguing, you could go on a walk, or read a book or something. Ya know?

The scientific law of biogenesis requires life begetting life. According to the Genesis’ account of creation, God was the present and active force behind all creation

Then someone or something had to create God as well. If life can't come from nothingness, then where did God come from? The existence of a God wouldn't explain how life or the world began because it would have to have started before God in order for him to exist...its a never-ending question, like the chicken or the egg. And why just one God and not many Gods like the Greeks believe?

Because God Says there is only one true God, You can not describe God as needed to be created. We can not even fathom the totality of God, you can't hold God to normal life standards, saying he would need to be created. An all powerful ever existing God would be the starting point for all things, not needing to have a creator himself.

Originally posted by minister
Because God Says there is only one true God, You can not describe God as needed to be created. We can not even fathom the totality of God, you can't hold God to normal life standards, saying he would need to be created.

Obviously, the concept of **circular reasoning** is entirely unknown to you.

Many religionists, although having no capacity for critical thinking, are at least aware that they have no capacity for critical thinking and are aware that they can formulate no coherant argument to support their claims.....

...you, OTOH, are so steeped in dogma and irrationality that you don't even KNOW that you are unable to formulate an argument.

It's incredible.

Oh ye of little faith

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death"
Luke 16:23 "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments"
Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 10:13 "For Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

I pray more read and can understand. You listen but yet you don't hear, you look but you don't see, you will try to enter but will be denied.

Because God Says there is only one true God

But the multiple Gods in other religions said there are many true Gods. Your response did not answer my question...why do you believe in THIS one God? (and don't say "because he told me to").

you can't hold God to normal life standards, saying he would need to be created. An all powerful ever existing God would be the starting point for all things, not needing to have a creator himself.

Now you are arguing with yourself. You're the one who said "true science rejects the hypothesis that 'life came from nothingness.' "...and that "The scientific law of biogenesis requires life begetting life"...and that "all who subscribe to the tenets of evolution (life came from nothingness) are not scientific."

Therefore, to say God just appeared and came from nothing "is not scientific" and goes against YOUR arguments.

He did not tell me to, he told the prophets through the ages till Jesus Christ who then told all of us "I am the way and the light no man come unto the father but by me." The historical documentation of his life and miracles he performed, just because something is old does not mean it ceases to be true.

READ.......Then open your ears and try READING again.....The thoughts that you can up with our of man which can not compare to the thoughts of God....

just because something is old does not mean it ceases to be true.

I never said it was untrue or ture. But just because something is old does not mean it is true either, and the older it is the harder it is to verify. Again, why do you believe this historical documentation over others, and what makes you believe it holds more truth than the others and is not just some people's stories about how they think the world was created?

And how do you explain the existence of God if "The scientific law of biogenesis requires life begetting life"?

Clearly he believes this because when he was little, his parents forced the christian religion upon him. He most likely lived in a christian heavy society and went to church every sunday.

It wasnt untill college or maybe Uni did the other side of story get told in its fullest, but by then the ideal of God was hardwired and nothing would change it whatever the evidence.

Way off base, I was raised in household that did not speak of religion. To this day my father has never stepped foot in a church and my mother even though she is a great woman has no interest as of this date. This was not anything that was forced upon me, I came to my own decsions as did my wife. It wasn't something that I just thought sounded good, cause believe me if that was the case there are many other religions that require less out of you, with the same reward. If you research all the books of the bible and there origins (dates), and corresponding texts they are overwhelming. I am not some nut job who was raised in a religious family, Up until I really looked into it I was a big supporter of Macro-evolution, the big bang, it all sounded great. Then I looked into it, thats all I would have anyone do...

Me and my wife did get a kick out of your profile of me, thanks...

Interesting Thread...and nice poll question.

I, of course, voted yes.

I believe that Christ came to this earth over 2000 years ago. I believe that he was the son of God. I believe he died for our sins. I believe he was resurrected on the third day, and went to Heaven to prepare it for us.

Nice to hear from you.......

I am not some nut job who was raised in a religious family

Ok, well he got the relgious family part wrong.

As much as I disagree with you, just for the record - I don't think your views make you a bad person, quite the opposite - I am sure you are a very good person if you are following christian teachings. There is afterall no particular harm done to others by being so closed minded - it is your life afterall.

You start out so nice, my friend I am not closed minded. I am a very open minded person as my wife, without a open mind I could have never seen the truth that had been staring me in the face for so long, and here I am...

How can you say you are open minded? Your mind is closed off to anything other than your belief set.

You might have been open minded at some point, but you are not anymore.

I am very open minded, I hope one day more people are...

Your mind is as open as a bolted door.

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Okely Dokely