my heart says god is real but my brain doesnt...

What your heart is telling you is right, that is the holy spirit of God trying to call back one of his lost children. The worse thing you can do is deny gods calling....Did you know that in many other religions they talked of Jesus and his miracles, have you ever heard of any one else raising people from the dead, and then let people kill him.....as foretold by the prophets for years before his birth...

I want to help....

Don't listen to this minister guy, he's a twit. You're going to have to work out among your heart and your brain what you are going to believe...it's okay to be unsure. Skepticism, agnosticism are all good, or you could research Buddhism. Your choice, and your choice alone. Again, no one can tell you what religion you should be except you.

God should tell you how, the bible describes people like you borg as leading his children astray and it is men like you that will cause a lot of people to be seperated from god, The answers are there and they have been for years in writing...

Originally posted by minister
God should tell you how, the bible describes people like you borg as leading his children astray and it is men like you that will cause a lot of people to be seperated from god, The answers are there and they have been for years in writing...
It's funny, when your type talks about evolution they say you can't prove it, thus it's an invalid theory. But you can't prove that the Bible is true or even that there is a god any more than I can prove that the Bible is false or that there is not a god. And furthermore, what makes you think I'm leading anyone astray? I am telling Shelby that whatever religion he/she chooses is absolutely fine, and that it's no one else's choice to make. How is that "leading people astray"?

If you knew anything about the bible you could easily see that Jesus Christ is the messiah, he fulfilled all biblical prophecy. Which means when he said the only way to the father(God) is thru me...I am the way.....

Did you hear they found the temple of solomon like the bible talks of.....So if Jesus was God's son, study the text....just because it is old does not mean it is not true.....IF you wrote your lifes story then in 2,000 years someone read it would it be any less true...

Originally posted by minister
If you knew anything about the bible you could easily see that Jesus Christ is the messiah, he fulfilled all biblical prophecy. Which means when he said the only way to the father(God) is thru me...I am the way.....
Oh believe me, I know plenty about the Bible. I have no more reason to believe it than I do the Lord of the Rings series.

Don't you love it when quotes from a book are used to back up the same book.

Pretty easy to fullfill a prophesy later in a book that you wrote in the first part of it.

In the beginning of " Moby Dick" Ahab for- saw that he would see a great white whale and sure enough, later in the book,he saw him.

By the way minister, I believe in a Supreme Force, I just am not a Christian. I pray and try to live without doing wrong to another. I help others when I can. I am responsible for my own actions-I blame no devils for human nature.

I just have no use for mans made up religions.

Originally posted by ShelbyIsKewl
my heart says god is real but my brain doesnt...

Your heart pumps blood :)

If you feel there is a god/higher power/gods/etc... then you have proven to yourself that there is. Now you need to explore even deeper, how do you feel your God works? Do not take this lightly it could mean the difference between believing and falling into someone elses belief. Watch out for people like the minister even though his intentions may be good it is still a type of brain wash. If you feel Jesus is the answer then go with the Bible, but explore your options before someone brain washes you into their way of thinking. There are many ways to be spiritual choose what is correct for you

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Don't you love it when quotes from a book are used to back up the same book.

Pretty easy to fullfill a prophesy later in a book that you wrote in the first part of it.

In the beginning of " Moby Dick" Ahab for- saw that he would see a great white whale and sure enough, later in the book,he saw him.

By the way minister, I believe in a Supreme Force, I just am not a Christian. I pray and try to live without doing wrong to another. I help others when I can. I am responsible for my own actions-I blame no devils for human nature.

I just have no use for mans made up religions.

I like this... alot

Organised religion is a great way to make money. Don't let the misguided ramblings of some preacher w/a pulpit and a bad combover pollute the perception of sprituallity.

Others have commented to look w/in yourself.
You may question your own perception of self. To be aware is good.

Old topic; in kind of a ying/yang way.
Do you know good from evil or right from wrong ? Again being aware.
Some say money is the root of all evil and then they pass the plate.
Money can be used for good or evil and so can knowledge.

Don't confuse religion with sprituallity.
Faith brings people together..
Religion can tear them apart..

the way you talk of the prophecies of the old testament it's like you think they were written by the same person and in the same time period, they were not.. They hed different authors and were written thousands of years apart, so fulfilling the old testament by the new testament is not using the same book to justify the other.

Originally posted by minister
the way you talk of the prophecies of the old testament it's like you think they were written by the same person and in the same time period, they were not.. They hed different authors and were written thousands of years apart, so fulfilling the old testament by the new testament is not using the same book to justify the other.
Somebody had to compile all these books. And they did so with some creative editing, to try and make sure everything meshed. They actually failed at that task, too; there are plenty of inaccuracies and contradictions in the Bible.

Well if there are lots of contradictories (spelled that wrong huh?) then point some out...

I would ask you to name one inaccuracy, you will find none...They still have the original to all the books of the bible and the torrah, so no they haven't been changed.

Believing in a higher power can be very helpfull for some people and it can also be very harmfull. Explore your options. Research the various religions, look to yourself. What makes sense to you and gives you the most inner peace? Which beliefs align with the how you feel? You may determine to practice your own personal religion. Whatever you choose to believe, it should reflect the values that you believe will make this a better world.

Try to stay away from religions that tell you that theirs is the only right one. God is many different things to many different people. Religion shouldn't be about HOW you worship, rather it should be about giving you support, gudence, and peace of mind.

On a personal note, I would suggest staying away from religions that talk about love and exceptance yet practice hate and descrimination.

I'm a Taoist. There is not higher power in Taoist beliefs. It is about making the world a better place and striving to be the best we can.

Good luck in your search for inner peace.

Originally posted by minister
I would ask you to name one inaccuracy, you will find none...They still have the original to all the books of the bible and the torrah, so no they haven't been changed.
You just said that the Bible was written over thousands of years by many authors; how is there an "original"?

Contradictions: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html There are 329 of them on that page.

Originally posted by Echo2
On a personal note, I would suggest staying away from religions that talk about love and exceptance yet practice hate and descrimination.

I'm a Taoist.

In other words, she's telling you to stay away from Taoism.

I see someone trotted out the old Skeptic's Annotated Bible again. If you go to the page and look at those "contradictions" you will see that they are not really contradictions at all. Most of them are a demonstration of the webmaster's misunderstanding of hermeneutics.

There are many places where these are easily explained. For starters : Apologetics Press (http://www.apologeticspress.org/modules.php?name=Read&cat=2)

Furthermore, Shelby, if you are on a serious spiritual quest, I'd recommend that you take your time and take everything you read/see on the internet, and especially in forums like this, with a grain of salt. Everyone is trying to promote their agenda, and you rarely find an objective presentation of the evidence.

How are there originals? They have kept these scripts down through the generations, it's funny to hear people talk about topics that they have no idea about. The only words added to the texts of the bible, are words to make the english flow without changing meaning. In the original Hebrew language that the torrah was wriitten in had no vowels.

Originally posted by minister
The only words added to the texts of the bible, are words to make the english flow without changing meaning.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaaa...my, that's a good laugh...haven't had one quite like that in a while, I must say. It's well-documented that the Bible has been altered through the ages to fit the political agendas of various rulers, and a prime example of one of the Bible translations still in use today which has been edited for a political agenda is none other than the King James Version. Similarly, some modern translations have a problem in that their translators also had an agenda in mind. The New International Version comes to mind. It's a shame there are so many versions out there, actually, because the Bible is a great work of literature.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
It's well-documented that the Bible has been altered through the ages to fit the political agendas of various rulers, and a prime example of one of the Bible translations still in use today which has been edited for a political agenda is none other than the King James Version. Similarly, some modern translations have a problem in that their translators also had an agenda in mind. The New International Version comes to mind. It's a shame there are so many versions out there, actually, because the Bible is a great work of literature.

I would be interested to know what the agenda of the NIV translators was, and how they altered the text to fit that agenda.

Originally posted by mad dog

If you feel there is a god/higher power/gods/etc... then you have proven to yourself that there is.

Proven?!?!?!?!

BWAAAAHAHAhahahahahaha.......

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
I would be interested to know what the agenda of the NIV translators was, and how they altered the text to fit that agenda.
There are a lot of fundie sites about this, and surprisingly, a number of them make some cogent arguments against the NIV. Do a Google search, I'm sure you will get some decent sites with minimum difficulty.

Yeah, it's all right here on the internet:rolleyes:

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Don't listen to this minister guy, he's a twit. You're going to have to work out among your heart and your brain what you are going to believe...it's okay to be unsure. Skepticism, agnosticism are all good, or you could research Buddhism. Your choice, and your choice alone. Again, no one can tell you what religion you should be except you.

And NO ONE should be telling her that someone giving her the facts of another choice is a twit.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
And NO ONE should be telling her that someone giving her the facts of another choice is a twit.
The "facts" he presents are unsupported rhetoric presented in an effort to scare people into believing. I find his method of "saving" people highly unethical. I have no problem with you believing in God. I do have a problem when you insist that others do so as well, or else burn in Hell. And if the Christian God (as presented literally in the Bible as a hate-spewing, jealous, egotistical little worm who can't stand people who think for themselves) did indeed exist, I would have a major problem with him as well. In fact, I would find it more moral to stand up to such a God than to bow and scrape at his feet. Your God is worse than Saddam Hussein, worse even than a certain German leader whose name shall not be mentioned. They merely killed people, however, your God casts people into eternal torment because he feels like it while at the same time saying that he loves them. It's incredibly despicable. Eternal torment and the knowledge I was wrong would be worth standing up to the evil bully who is neither loving nor fair, but rather a sinister figure who does not love his creations. All in all, Jere, your God is not worth worshipping, even in the off chance he does exist.

/end unexpected rant

Christianity is the biggest joke... Preaching that God only loves you if you believe in him and do everything the way he wants it done... If God were like that, he would just bbe a human, not a supreme higher being who deserved worship! Organized religion is pretty much a sham. Everyone should find their own special relationship with God, or whatever they want to call him/her/it/they. For all anyone really knows though, we could all be controlled subconciously by aliens from outer space.

Originally posted by DarkFantasy96
Christianity is the biggest joke... Preaching that God only loves you if you believe in him and do everything the way he wants it done... If God were like that, he would just bbe a human, not a supreme higher being who deserved worship! Organized religion is pretty much a sham. Everyone should find their own special relationship with God, or whatever they want to call him/her/it/they. For all anyone really knows though, we could all be controlled subconciously by aliens from outer space.

You just demonstrated a very minimal knowledge of what Christianity is. No one that is a Christian thinks that God only loves them....God loves us all unconditionally.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
You just demonstrated a very minimal knowledge of what Christianity is. No one that is a Christian thinks that God only loves them....God loves us all unconditionally.

Not really - I think your post demonstrates a minimal acceptance of some very valid points that DarkFantasy made.

His/her points

Preaching that God only loves you if you believe in him and do everything the way he wants it done... If God were like that, he would just bbe a human, not a supreme higher being who deserved worship!

I agree with this 100%. You would retort that God loves you if you accept him or not - but he doesn't love you enough to save you from eternal damnation if you do not believe in him. Especially when, God made these rules, heaven & hell and could have determined a better rule. This is a very selfish concept and unworth of a supreme higher being. It's very normal for a rational person to reject this christian tenent of the nature of God.

Everyone should find their own special relationship with God, or whatever they want to call him/her/it/they.

This makes perfect sense to me. Relationship with God can only come from a personal experience and not be determined by proxy by a book written by some people 2000 years ago and translated into many different versions as suits.

For all anyone really knows though, we could all be controlled subconciously by aliens from outer space.

This is true. It's just as feasible as the heaven is paved with Gold story, eternal hell and all that. The point is - we don't know, we can only go on what we observe. To assume absolutes is to be certain to be wrong.

To say God is evil and to compare him to Hitler is not only disgusting but shows a down right ignorance of any concept of who or what god is. To hear you spew these uneducated thoughts out of your mouth is vile, and don't worry you will get your chance to come face to face with your Judge and I pray he shows you more love than you show him....

Who said God was evil & who compared God to Hitler?

The point is - your description of God is a God that is selfish, manipulative, unfair. I'm not sure why you cannot understand that your description of God paints a very negative picture.

It's unlikely that God is any of these things.

Originally posted by DrewM
Who said God was evil & who compared God to Hitler?
I did, with the qualifier "as presented literally in the Bible."