"FBI agents in the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, witnessed abuses of prisoners that included being left in their own feces, chained in ice-cold or super-hot cells and other interrogation techniques that caused one prisoner to pull his hair from his head, documents released Monday show.

The agents' accounts, contained in e-mails to their superiors to distance the FBI from the behavior, are the first by U.S. officials confirming Guantanamo prisoners' complaints of sleep deprivation, temperature manipulations, strobe lights and loud music.

An example: Ibrahim al-Qosi of Sudan, accused of being an Al Qaeda accountant, claimed in a civil lawsuit last month that prisoners were subjected to mind-numbing music and humiliated by being wrapped with an Israeli flag -- an allegation that military spokesmen denied at the time.

"We have no evidence to suggest that this ever happened here," Navy Cmdr. Robert Mulac, a Guantanamo spokesman, said Nov. 6. "We do not treat the detainees inhumanely or with disdain or humiliation."

Yet on July 30, in one of the e-mails the American Civil Liberties Union made available Monday, an FBI agent wrote that he had seen an almost identical event at the prison (http://www.freep.com/news/nw/gitmo21e_20041221.htm) , describing, among other things, a prisoner draped in an Israeli flag."

*
Maybe this is considered Hearts & Minds (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,930084,00.html) II.........and, will probably work as well.

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
"[b] sleep deprivation, temperature manipulations, strobe lights and loud music.

An example: Ibrahim al-Qosi of Sudan, accused of being an Al Qaeda accountant, claimed in a civil lawsuit last month that prisoners were subjected to mind-numbing music and humiliated by being wrapped with an Israeli flag -- an allegation that military spokesmen denied at the time.

[/i].

Without getting caught up in all the ACLU BS, just your opinion. Is this really that horrible compared to what all sides have done in past wars?

Brooks, one could ask : is it really what you expect from the US army ?

Doesn't one in the military take an oath to protect and promote the constitution?

Without getting caught up in all the ACLU BS, just your opinion. Is this really that horrible compared to what all sides have done in past wars?
How does that make it acceptable?

I suppose Shaman wants us to ask the al qeada scum nicely to tell us what we need to know to protect his silly ass. tell us shman, how do you get a man who is not afraid of death to tell you what you need to know? somehow I think the magic word wont quite work.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Brooks, one could ask : is it really what you expect from the US army ?

Not only does it seem that many Reichwingers in this country expect exactly that from our military (i.e., from the people in Washington who give the military its direction), a large number of them actively APPROVE of such actions.

I have heard them saying it in person.

Sickening, isn't it?

Originally posted by astrapol2
Brooks, one could ask : is it really what you expect from the US army ?

Jack Nicholson as Col. Jessup:

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall -- you need me on that wall. We use words like "honor," "code," "loyalty." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

Sadly, our troops are being used to do the dirty work of the Israeli Likud which now runs our military from within the pentagon and dictates our foreign policy. We are no longer the united states of america.

It's particularily sad to see americans buying into this behaviour, considering it is designed only for the benefit of Israel.

Sick mofos

Dop

I am ashamed when I hear that some Americans actually approve of this. We are no better than the scum we fight when we lower ourselves to this type of thing. America no longer sets the moral example for the world.

Sadam allowed torture, bush allows torture.

Toturing is wrong. It is wrong on Tuesdays, it is wrong when the sun shines, it is wrong even when it will help us win a war.

Integrity is doing the right thing even when it is the difficult choice and makes things harder for you.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Sadly, our troops are being used to do the dirty work of the Israeli Likud which now runs our military from within the pentagon and dictates our foreign policy. We are no longer the united states of america.

It's particularily sad to see americans buying into this behaviour, considering it is designed only for the benefit of Israel.

Sick mofos

Dop

Dop, sadly, you have lost any and all respect and credibility you had from me. your wild beliefs just get crazier with each passing day. I am afraid by the time bushs term ends you will be in an institution

Originally posted by Travh20
Dop, sadly, you have lost any and all respect and credibility you had from me.

I had respect and credibility from you trav ???

Just when the was that again ???

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
I had respect and credibility from you trav ???

Just when the was that again ???

Dop
I was wondering exactly the same thing...

(Speaking of respect and credibility, I have now tied Trav for the Top Poster crown. :D)

It amazes me how compartmentalized our beliefs can be when it comes to war. If these POWs, or whatever they are, got a bullet in the head or stomach or femoral artery and bled to death in the desert, you would have no problem with that. But God forbid someone wraps the Israeli flag around them. From a human and common sense standpoint an enemy soldier dying should bother you more.

Dop, I had respect for you because of your age and your navy service, but all your left wing conspiracys and failed predictions about US troops mowing down American citizens in the streets have been chipping away at it, and now sadly it is all gone.

But on the other hand, Dop, I give you 5 Freethinker bonus points for invoking an Israel conspiracy.

No one that has 2 pieces of gray matter moving, leaves Israel out of the 9/11 equation.

Dop

Originally posted by Brooks
Without getting caught up in all the ACLU BS, just your opinion. Is this really that horrible compared to what all sides have done in past wars?
Ah, yes........let's (simply) disregard those college pranks, like "being left in their own feces, chained in ice-cold or super-hot cells and other interrogation techniques that caused one prisoner to pull his hair from his head", or "strangulation, beatings, placement of lit cigarettes into a detainee's ear openings and unauthorized interrogations", right??? :@@:

Originally posted by Travh20
I suppose Shaman wants us to ask the al qeada scum nicely to tell us what we need to know to protect his silly ass. tell us shman, how do you get a man who is not afraid of death to tell you what you need to know? somehow I think the magic word wont quite work.
So.......what you're saying is, it's O.K. when the other side does it, to our troops, huh?

Yeah........it's lookin' like Reagan dodged that bullet!! (http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html) :@@:

"On February 4, 1985, the Convention was opened for signature at United Nations Headquarters in New York. At that time, representatives of the following countries signed it: Afghanistan, Argentina, Belgium, Bolivia, Costa Rica, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Finland, France, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Senegal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and Uruguay. Subsequently, signatures were received from Venezuela on February 15, from Luxembourg and Panama on February 22, from Austria on March 14, and from the United Kingdom on March 15, 1985."

Originally posted by Echo2
I am ashamed when I hear that some Americans actually approve of this. We are no better than the scum we fight when we lower ourselves to this type of thing.
I guess this is one o' the benefits that Travh20 approves-of. :mad:

they do that and worse to our side shaman, most times they just put a bullet in thier heads. It doesnt matter how we treat al qeada terrorists shaman, we could put them up in 5 star hotels, it wouldnt change anything. if you actually believe they caare about how ther captured terrorists are treated think again. most of these people are used as suicide terrorists anyway.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
No one that has 2 pieces of gray matter moving, leaves Israel out of the 9/11 equation.

Maybe that's the problem - your gray matter is moving around. Mine stays where it's supposed to.

I think you'd find out it really is moving Lionel.

ROTF

Dop

Originally posted by Travh20
most of these people are used as suicide terrorists anyway.
Yeah........why don't they wear red-uniforms, line up, and fight like real men (in their Revolutionary War), like the British did, huh??

Originally posted by Travh20
It doesnt matter how we treat al qeada terrorists shaman, we could put them up in 5 star hotels, it wouldnt change anything.
Yeah.......so, instead.......we go with Option 2!!!!! (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17216&c=206)

"A document released for the first time today by the American Civil Liberties Union suggests that President Bush issued an Executive Order authorizing the use of inhumane interrogation methods against detainees in Iraq. Also released by the ACLU today are a slew of other records including a December 2003 FBI e-mail that characterizes methods used by the Defense Department as "torture" and a June 2004 "Urgent Report" to the Director of the FBI that raises concerns that abuse of detainees is being covered up.

"These documents raise grave questions about where the blame for widespread detainee abuse ultimately rests," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero. "Top government officials can no longer hide from public scrutiny by pointing the finger at a few low-ranking soldiers."

I guess old-habits die hard. ;)

http://rushlimbaughtomy.blogspot.com/bushsuckerpunch.gif

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
Ah, yes........let's (simply) disregard those college pranks, like "being left in their own feces, chained in ice-cold or super-hot cells and other interrogation techniques that caused one prisoner to pull his hair from his head", or "strangulation, beatings, placement of lit cigarettes into a detainee's ear openings and unauthorized interrogations", right??? :@@:

Besides Dop, Shaman, et al., has anyone else forgotten what happened to the rest of Jessica Lynch's unit. A photo was released showing a pile of them in a room, each with a single, neat gunshot to the head. That doesn't happen in open combat.

Is it bad that prisoners sit in hot or cold cells? Of course it is. But how do you want to fight these people? And as much as you'd like to think otherwise, these incidents are the exception to the way the prisoners have been treated.

The Jessica Lynch story was a total hoax right up there with the Cardiff Giant.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
The Jessica Lynch story was a total hoax right up there with the Cardiff Giant.

Dop

Her heroics in the tale were. What happened to her comrades wasn't. But I appreciate you making my point about you and Shaman forgetting. Thanks!

Were you there to see it brooks or are you just repeating Rush, Sean and FOX?

Dop

were you there to see it not happen, or are you just repeating Dan "the memos are fake but still true" Rather?

OK trav -- I have it figured out why your post aren't making a whole lot of sense this morning ... in fact few are making any sense at all ... LOL

You're worried about losing the posting lead .... ROTF.

Dop

Originally posted by Travh20
......Dan "the memos are fake but still true" Rather?
Ah!!

You (finally) CONCUR!!!!!!!!! (http://www.axisoflogic.com/cgi-bin/exec/view.pl?archive=42&num=5089)

Well done!!!!!

Originally posted by Brooks
And as much as you'd like to think otherwise, these incidents are the exception to the way the prisoners have been treated.
That's what They say, huh???? :rolleyes:

"The Bush administration refused to release these records (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20986-2004Dec22.html) to the human rights groups under the Freedom of Information Act until it was ordered to do so by a judge. Now it has responded to their publication with bland promises by spokesmen that any wrongdoing will be investigated. The record of the past few months suggests that the administration will neither hold any senior official accountable nor change the policies that have produced this shameful record. Congress, too, has abdicated its responsibility under its Republican leadership: It has been nearly four months since the last hearing on prisoner abuse. Perhaps intervention by the courts will eventually stem the violations of human rights that appear to be ongoing in Guantanamo, Iraq and Afghanistan. For now the appalling truth is that there has been no remedy for the documented torture and killing of foreign prisoners by this American government."

*
Ya' wanna RESTATE your opinion??????????? :@@:

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman


Ya' wanna RESTATE your opinion??????????? :@@:

Based on.....?

sorry shaman, in the real world fake documents are not taken seriously. I know a crayon drawing of bush burning a cross would be proof enough for you to believe he actually did it, but thats not how the real world operates.

WTF???

President 'Tomas de Torquemada' Bush ordered the prisoner torture???

And there's email to prove it???

Let the inquisitions begin.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11765305%255E2703,00.html

Dop

dop, your free to apply the post right above yours to yourself too

And I suppose that the person with the emails I mentioned, testifying to a federal panel under oath would still not satisfy you trav.

Dop