Whether you agree with this article or not, its still pretty interesting and worth a read.


"The Empty Cradle Will Rock"

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005277


-Smithers

So now you guys want to save all those fetus's so they can eventually vote democratic?

This is about the most rediculous article I have ever read. At least when the right to lifers used ethics as an argument they had a leg to stand on. This just falls flat.

If monkeys could read and write I wonder how they would vote :eek: Should've, would've, could've, is it really worth wondering about something that never did/could happen. Lets find out how many people are F'ed up on drugs or killed by drunk drivers how would they have voted? How many people this year died of cancer, aids, heart diease, etc... how would they have voted?

I think Abortion is a personal choice and a choice that the persons involved will have to live with for the rest of their life. There are better arguments against abortion then who would the non-existing person vote for.

I think the article is trying to say that 40 million lives have been lost (more from parents of Democratic voters) and the likelyhood of those parents raising their children democraticly is a good chance. And really the article was just an opinion, its not all Republicans saying this is happening, I just thought it was interesting.

As for living with abortion forever, that is not necessarily true. The decision of Roe V. Wade would have to get overturned in the Supreme Court. Right now there are 4 liberal leaning, 2 moderates, and 3 conservative leaning justices. Bush could have as many as 3 positions open up in the next four years where he will be able to fill with conservative justices. This could eventually lead to an appeal for Roe V. Wade to get it overturned. It just depends on the numbers of conservative leaning justices. It has been liberal leaning for awhile now b/c some of these justices have been around for a hell of a long time.

-Smithers

Well Fly, I think it was a very interesting article that says a lot about the effects of abortion on the population. Interesting indeed.

Goes to show what goes around comes around to kick ya in the butt !

Babies revenge !! hehe

Echo, Mellow out. The facts in the article were politically neutral. Just interesting, original thinking. Even if you don't like real life impact.

Originally posted by flyerES
I think the article is trying to say that 40 million lives have been lost (more from parents of Democratic voters) and the likelyhood of those parents raising their children democraticly is a good chance.

40 million???!

Hey!, why stop there?!?

I mean, if we're going to moan over all those *potential* lives, let's be sure to count every sperm cell too!!

Better multiply that 40 million figure by fifty or a hundred thousand.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(bullshit version)"We will not waver. We will not tire. We will not faulter. We will not fail. Peace and freedom will prevail."
- President George W. Bush

(truthful version) "We will not waver. We will not tire. I'll get my phony war, I don't care how many soldiers have to die! We will not faulter. We will not fail. Let's bomb them anti god Muzzlims and give them Hell! We will not give up. We will not quit. Me and my budddies will make billions in Iraq, even if the economy here DOES turn to shit!
- President George W. Bush

I wonder how many of the pro lifers cryed over the fifty thousand American lives that were lost in the vietnam war. Or the over 1200 American lifes killed in this war.

Funny how they care more about the unborn than they do the living.

Just for the record. Anyone that automatically votes for whatever party their parents raised them as is a iddiott. You are insinuating that all of those unborn fetus's are iddiotts.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Freethinker
[B]40 million???!

Hey!, why stop there?!?

I mean, if we're going to moan over all those *potential* lives, let's be sure to count every sperm cell too!!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sperm cells don't have a heart beat. 5 week old fetuses do however... http://www.preghelp.com/first_trimester.htm

Originally posted by Echo2
I wonder how many of the pro lifers cryed over the fifty thousand American lives that were lost in the vietnam war. Or the over 1200 American lifes killed in this war.

Funny how they care more about the unborn than they do the living.

Just for the record. Anyone that automatically votes for whatever party their parents raised them as is a iddiott. You are insinuating that all of those unborn fetus's are iddiotts.


For you to say that pro-lifers don't care about "the fifty thousand American lives that were lost in the vietnam war. Or the over 1200 American lifes killed in this war," is crazy!! Here you are using a small group of pro-life radicals and calling the whole pro-life movement radical such as that group.

I'll tell you this much, I know pro-life people who care about anyone that dies. Don't try to make the issue that pro-life people only care about unborn people b/c you don't like their stance on abortion.

By not coming up with facts to back your idea up you aren't making a very valid point here. If you're going to argue, please come up with something I can at least try and argue back with.

-Smithers

Originally posted by Echo2
Anyone that automatically votes for whatever party their parents raised them as is a iddiott. You are insinuating that all of those unborn fetus's are iddiotts.
And with that, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case. You know, Echo, if you're going to call someone an idiot, you should probably invest the time to spell the word correctly in an effort to AVOID making yourself look like one in the process.

Originally posted by Echo2
Just for the record. Anyone that automatically votes for whatever party their parents raised them as is a iddiott. You are insinuating that all of those unborn fetus's are iddiotts.


You are right. This whole idea is just an opinion.

You're also right that a child won't vote exactly the way their parents do, but isn't there something to say with the way a child is raised. A young child learns from a parent how to think, how to act. A parent most definitely does have influence on a child.

-Smithers

Originally posted by sandy73
Well Fly, I think it was a very interesting article that says a lot about the effects of abortion on the population. Interesting indeed.

Goes to show what goes around comes around to kick ya in the butt !

Babies revenge !! hehe
This is Allforums post #100,000! :woohoo: :banana:

Originally posted by Echo2
Anyone that automatically votes for whatever party their parents raised them as is a iddiott.

Folks, it doesn't get any better than this.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Echo2

Just for the record. Anyone that automatically votes for whatever party their parents raised them as is a iddiott. You are insinuating that all of those unborn fetus's are iddiotts. [/QUOTE


THANK YOU!! that's my contention. i vote for a candidate, not a party. all too often, votes have more to do with a voter's loyalty to their party than they do with a voter's stance on the issues.
to these people, i'd like to say this: grow some balls. stand up for what you believe in; don't hide behind a candidate. it's ok to consider the opposition's views.

Originally posted by jennygadling
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Echo2

Just for the record. Anyone that automatically votes for whatever party their parents raised them as is a iddiott. You are insinuating that all of those unborn fetus's are iddiotts. [/QUOTE


THANK YOU!! that's my contention. i vote for a candidate, not a party. all too often, votes have more to do with a voter's loyalty to their party than they do with a voter's stance on the issues.
to these people, i'd like to say this: grow some balls. stand up for what you believe in; don't hide behind a candidate. it's ok to consider the opposition's views.

Yes this is true, but there are 3 main issues that come into play that people really care about. They won't vote against these issues for any reason. This explains why people sometimes associate themselves with the party that agrees with the stance they have on these issues.
And these issues are:

1. the environment
2. gun control
3. abortion

(4. gay marriage - this one interestingly made a huge difference in this last election and could soon be included with these three other big issues.)


-Smithers

exactly. people feel so strongly about these things, they refuse to acknowledge the opposition's stance on the issue. there are some people who hear nothing else of a candidate's platform besides their shared belief. many people don't bother to examine the whole package.

I totally agree with you, but it's not going to change. Some people just can't live with an certain issue a certain way. People have very strong convictions about these. It's just how it works.

-Smithers

sad, but true.

1300 college kids died in 2004 from Alcohol Related Deaths!!!
Numbers right there with Americans killed in the Iraqi war. Who would they have voted for????

Not so much bitching and publicity about these kids killed here in the states and its every year.

I've got an idea. Let's let all the dead people vote. We can use Chicago as a model, and just let whoever controls the government cast their ballots. It pretty much assures incumbents win, but that happens anyway.

that's reaching. i agree that children are forced to believe and support what their parents support. but that's why i said that people need time to form their own beliefs. when these children are old enough to form their own beliefs, they should do just that. read up on issues; search for answers to questions that may not have been addressed, questions that may have been answered biasedly. once you're an adult, it's your responsibility to make your own choices. maybe, as children, we didn't have a choice. as adults, we must choose. many cary on the family tradition; grandparents, parents, etc always voted for "their" party, so they follow in their families' footsteps.
you're an adult now. take racism, for example. maybe you grew up having only your family's ignorance to base your views on. as adults, that's no longer acceptable. you're now able to think for yourself, make choices for yourself. you now have the oportunity to help us evolve as a people, rather than allowing yet another generation of hate and intolerance to be bred.

Actually I was trying to be sarcastic. Apparently I failed to make that clear. I think the hypothetical discussion of whom the dead would vote for is pretty ridiculous. It is entirely hypothetical, with no real basis. If everyone voted for the party their parents voted for, and had throughout our history, we would probably have a Federalist majority. Obviously, that is not the case. Even if we took it to a more recent time, The Democrats had a firm majority for decades in the mid - 1900's. That has changed. I doubt that the number of abortions caused the change, I suspect that religion and the growth of the charismatic Christian churches was a much bigger factor.

i feel ya

I don't think they would have voted at all they would have overthrown the Gov. and then ruled the world :eek:

Originally posted by jennygadling
i agree that children are forced to believe and support what their parents support. but that's why i said that people need time to form their own beliefs.

Chances are pretty good that if you didn't grow up resenting your parents or hating your lifestyle you will gravitate toward a similar neighborhood and/or lifestyle or even profession. With those similarities will come certain political beliefs. It doesn't mean you were forced or have no balls (as was previously mentioned) or are stupid or unthinking.

Getting back to the original article, it's just a statistical truth. The exception would be the 60's due to the fear of the draft.

Originally posted by Brooks
Chances are pretty good that if you didn't grow up resenting your parents or hating your lifestyle you will gravitate toward a similar neighborhood and/or lifestyle or even profession. With those similarities will come certain political beliefs. It doesn't mean you were forced or have no balls (as was previously mentioned) or are stupid or unthinking.

Getting back to the original article, it's just a statistical truth. The exception would be the 60's due to the fear of the draft.

when i said to grow some balls, i was aiming that towards adults who, no matter how they were raised and influenced as children, are now capable of evaluating the issues and developing ideas/beliefs of their own.

Originally posted by Echo2
I wonder how many of the pro lifers cryed over the fifty thousand American lives that were lost in the vietnam war. Or the over 1200 American lifes killed in this war.

Funny how they care more about the unborn than they do the living.

at least the people who died in iraq made the choice to serve their country....they signed their lives away Echo...they knew what they were getting into. Save me the sympathy...they deserve respect, and thats it. Abortions give the child NO chance of life...there's a big difference there echo..one that you obviously don't see. You're blind echo!!!! YOU'RE BLIND!!!! AHHAHAHAHA!!!