What Turkey wants on Dec 17


After 41 years on the fringes of the European Union, Turkey hopes to achieve a major step towards full membership at an EU summit on Dec. 16-17 by securing a date to start negotiations next year.

Turkey wants:

- Full membership as the ultimate goal: Turkey strongly rejects any alternative to full membership and says the objective of the negotiations should be accession. It says any alternative to full membership will be nothing less than trying to avoid marriage after a 40-year or so engagement and offering Turkey the role of Europe's mistress instead.
- A clear date and no more delay: Turkey says EU leaders should spell out a date to start talks unconditionally and without delay as decided by the 2002 Copenhagen Council.
- Equal treatment: Turkey says conditions for its entry negotiations should be no different from that previously applied to candidate countries.

Turkey does not want:

- Recognition of the Greek Cypriot side of the island as the "government of Cyprus:" Turkey has said it will not move towards recognizing the Greek Cypriot half as the "government of Cyprus," formally or de facto, prior to the summit. It says the Greek Cypriots, who rejected a United Nations peace plan in April, are responsible for the absence of a solution to the division of the island.
- Permanent safeguards: Turkey says any reference to permanent safeguards restricting the free movement of its workers and its access to EU regional funds and farm subsidies in the summit statement or during the negotiations would be discriminatory, violate EU law and leave it with less than full membership.
- New conditions for opening and concluding negotiations: Turkey is irked by proposals to make it attain new benchmarks just to start talks on some policy areas. It fears this will extend the period of talks that are expected to last at least 10 years.

As far as I'm concerned, Turkey shouldn't be a part of the EU for one simply reason - Turkey is NOT in Europe.

A bit simplistic. I guess the right question is : "Is it good for EU to include Turkey as a member". I guess it is.
Turkey is a modern, 70 millions inhabitants country, fairly westernized, which has a long tradition of being involved in Europen policy.
From the economic point of view, the EU would benefit from this big market with a high growth rate and a fairly efficient industry.
From a political point of view, Turkey, if member of the EU, would have to stick to its rules, which would oblige it to go further in the democratisation process it has already started. It would make it a stable, democratic, pro-european country in the middle east. On the opposite, if rejected by EU, it would run the risk of becoming instable and turning to fundamentalism.

The real matter is : are European people ready to accept among them a muslim country ? Personnally I believe it could be a good thing, but it depends on what one believes is the nature of Europe.

I see two problems with Turkey joining the EU, one is that Turkey wants to steal Cyprus.

The second problem is with Turkey having an Islamic population and having free access to the EU. Muslims don't intergrate into our brand of freedom. The EU needs people who respect freedom. Germans were shocked when moderate Turkish Muslims in Germany said that Van Gogh should be killed for insulting Islam. Van Gogh only told the truth, is that an insult to be killed for? What other group will kill you if you make public their way of life. Muslims are a minority and already they are taking away freedom of expression.

It is very tempting to allow Turkey into the EU but it will end the EU as we now know it. Ataturk knew that if turkey was to move forward then he had to take islam out of the government. A dictatorship was his only choice. When Muslims vote they vote for Islamic government that takes away freedom.

Have you ever seen a muslim population vote in a democratic government that gives freedom to all?

old reb

Originally posted by old-reb
I see two problems with Turkey joining the EU, one is that Turkey wants to steal Cyprus.old reb

This will be much easier to settle when Turkey is part of the UN. There is much less room for conflict when you're part of the same team.

Originally posted by old-reb

The second problem is with Turkey having an Islamic population and having free access to the EU. Muslims don't intergrate into our brand of freedom. old reb

That's your point of view. You constantly refer to Van Gogh's murder to support it bu that just shows some extermists exist in Islam - big news.
I believe democracy is possible in many countries once a few conditions are respected - education level being a crucial one.
What's the point of fighting for democracy if you then deny other people the ability to achieve it ?

Originally posted by old-reb

Have you ever seen a muslim population vote in a democratic government that gives freedom to all?old reb

Turkey is a good example. Even if the human rights have been abused and still could be improved, it has made tremendous efforts, and has truly democratics institutions. In some aspects it even was more democratic than many european countries - allowing women to vote decades before France, for example.
Indonesia is another example, now that the CIA-supported dictatorship has fallen apart. Remember it's the biggest muslim country on earth.

I would like to add that my personal experience of Turkish people allows me to confirm they are ready for integration in the EU. This is a very westernized country.

Turkey should have no problem getting unanimous approval from EU's member states. One cheerleader for Turkey includes their traditional enemy, Greece.

Turkey has come a long way to Democracy. it was founding member of the UN, member of NATO since 1952, Council of Europe since 1949, OECD since 1961 and Western European Union since 1992.

Turkey has a secular democracy closely aligned with the West.
In fact, the U.S. is one of Turkey's backers, gaining from it a close ally in the Muslim world. the most sensitive argument against Turkey would be centered in religious and cultural differences because of their predominantly Muslim population.

Originally posted by Rolader
Turkey should have no problem getting unanimous approval from EU's member states.
Not so sure. In France, where this question could be the object of a referendum, the majority is against it.

I saw on the news last night that after 24 hours of non-stop negotiations, the EU agreed to let Turkey in but that didn't mean that they would really get in. Turkey agreeded to accept Cyprus but that didn't mean they really accepted Cyprus.

It was all hailed a great success. Lets do it again in 10 years.

old reb

The EU agreed to open negociations. If they are successful, Turkey could become a member in 10 or 20 years. But many things still have to be settled - Cyprus, the Armenian Genocide, and many economical issues too.