10/20/2004 Absentee ballots (error) OH Cuyahoga County. Arrows on absentee ballots don't line up with the correct punch hole. "If absentee voters cast their vote by trying to line up the arrow with the punch card, they could punch the wrong number."
Story
11/2/2004 Absentee ballots (late) OH A woman sued elections officials Tuesday on behalf of Ohio voters who claim they did not receive their absentee ballots on time, seeking permission for them to be able to cast provisional ballots at the polls. SoS office said state law says that if a board of elections sent someone an absentee ballot, that person cannot try to vote at a polling place. Story Archive
10/30/2004 Animosity at polls OH In Cleveland, the police were called when members of a community group tried to deliver a letter to the Cuyahoga County Republican headquarters asking the party to withdraw challenges against voters. Punches were thrown at the front door and each side accused the other of assault, but the police could not determine who was at fault. Story Archive
11/2/2004 Animosity at polls OH In Cleveland, a Democratic official was thrown out by a screaming poll judge before another told him he could return to the church basement. Story
10/19/2004 Ballot printing error OH Hamilton County. At least two absentee ballots did not include Kerry's name. Workers accidentally removed Kerry when removing Ralph Nader's name.
Story
11/18/2004 Canvass anomalies OH Montgomery County. Two precincts had 25% presidential undervotes. This means no presidential vote was recorded on 1/4 of the ballots. The overall undervote rate for the county was 2%. The undercount amounted to 2.8 percent of the ballots in the 231 precincts that supported Kerry, but only 1.6 percent of those cast in the 354 precincts that supported President Bush. Story Archive
11/25/2004 Canvass anomalies OH Sandusky County. What appeared to be an overcount resulted when a computer disk containing votes was accidentally backed up into the voting machines twice by an election worker. Story Archive
11/29/2004 Canvass anomalies OH Sufficient problems have surfaced in Ohio that the Rev. Jesse Jackson said Sunday that the Ohio Supreme Court should consider setting aside Bush's win in Ohio and that Congress should investigate how Ohioans voted. Story Archive
11/30/2004 Canvass anomalies OH Cuyahoga County. In precinct 4F, located in a predominantly black precinct, at Benedictine High School on Martin Luther King Jr. Drive, Kerry received 290 votes, Bush 21 and Michael Peroutka, candidate of the ultra-conservative anti-immigrant Constitutional Party, received 215 votes. In precinct 4N, also at Benedictine High School, the tally was Kerry 318, Bush 21, and Libertarian Party candidate Michael Badnarik 163. Story
12/2/2004 Canvass anomalies OH U.S. House Judiciary Democrats write a letter to Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, detailing anomalies and allegations of fraud, and asking for a response. Story
10/30/2004 Election law OH Under election law, boards of elections cannot even begin counting provisional ballots until Nov. 13. Because that's a Saturday, many boards may wait until Nov. 15, the following Monday, to begin counting. Story
10/22/2004 Fraud (misc) OH Franklin County. Reports of about a dozen voters contacted by someone claiming to be from the county Board of Elections, telling them their voting location was changed. Story
11/3/2004 Fraud (other) OH In Trumbull County, a voter in Warren Township precinct D arrived at the polls to discover that someone had already voted in her name. The person who used her name apparently forged her signature and wrote that she lived at a different address. Board of Elections allowed her to cast a ballot. Story Archive
11/14/2004 Fraud (other) OH Summit County. 29 voters voted absentee and then again on provisional ballots. Story Archive
11/4/2004 Long lines OH Knox County. Kenyon College student Maggie Hill appeared on the "Today Show" Wednesday morning. She was one of hundreds of students and other Gambier residents who waited for up to 10 hours to cast their votes. Observers in the Gambier precinct said there were only two voting machines for 1,300 voters. Each machine, they said, is designed to handle 20 voters per hour. Story
11/2/2004 Machine malfunction OH Cincinnati. Problems with punch card voting machines delayed the start of voting for up to an hour Tuesday morning at a suburban precinct. Voters were unable to slide their punch-card ballots all the way into any of the six voting machines that had ALL evidently been damaged in transit. Story Archive
11/2/2004 Machine malfunction OH In Columbus, Ohio, overcharged batteries on Danaher Controls ELECTronic 1242 systems kept machines from booting up properly at the beginning of the day. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction OH Mahoning County. The glass on top of one ES&S iVotronic electronic screen was too far from the screen, making it difficult for people to use their fingers to cast ballots. A screen went blank on a Youngstown voter while he cast his ballot. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction OH Mahoning County. 20 to 30 ES&S iVotronic machines that needed to be recalibrated during the voting process because some votes for a candidate were being counted for that candidate's opponent. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction OH Mahoning County. About a dozen ES&S iVotronic machines needed to be reset because they essentially froze. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction OH Toledo. At the Birmingham polling site in East Toledo, the sole machine broke down around 7 a.m. An hour later, when Ohio House Rep. Peter Ujvagi tried to cast his ballot, the poll worker told him to place his ballot in a secure slot so that it could be scanned in later. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction OH Toledo. Throughout the city, polling places reported an assortment of problems, ranging from technical trouble with Lucas County's leased optical-scan voting machines to confusion about precinct boundaries and questions over provisional balloting. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction OH Lucas County (Toledo). Technical problems snarled the process throughout the day. Jammed or inoperable voting machines were reported throughout the city. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Machine malfunction OH Knox County. Due to an equipment malfunction the wait was at least 1 1/2 hours long. Story
11/5/2004 Machine malfunction OH Columbus. A Danaher ELECTronic 1242 computer error with a voting machine cartridge gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in a Gahanna precinct. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. A cartridge from one of three voting machines at the polling place generated a faulty number at a computerized reading station. Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections said the cartridge was retested Thursday and there were no problems. He couldn't explain why the computer reader malfunctioned. Story1 Story2Archive1
11/6/2004 Machine malfunction OH Mercer County. One voting machine showed that 289 people cast (punch card) ballots, but only 51 votes were recorded for president. The county's Web site appeared to show a similar conflict, reporting that 51,818 people cast ballots but 47,768 ballots were recorded in the presidential race, including 61 write-ins. It would appear that about 4,000 votes (nearly 7%) could be unaccounted for. Story Archive
11/9/2004 Machine malfunction OH Mahoning County. One precinct in Youngstown, Ohio, recorded a negative 25 million votes, which was discarded from official results. [ES&S iVotronic voting machines] Story Archive
11/16/2004 Machine malfunction OH Sandusky County elections officials discovered some ballots in nine precincts were counted twice. [ES&S optical scan] The county doesn't yet know how it happened. Story Archive
11/2/2004 Malfeasance OH State J. Kenneth Blackwell said voters could not cast provisional ballots despite not receiving their absentee ballots in time. A judge overruled him, calling his statement a "failure to do his duty" and saying that the federal Help America Vote Act requires that people who claim to be eligible voters must be allowed to cast provisionals regardless of the reason they are not on the rolls or are challenged. Story1 Archive1 Story2
11/2/2004 Malfeasance OH Officials in Warren County, Ohio locked down its administration building to prevent anybody from observing the vote count there. County Commissioners confirmed that they were acting on the advice of their Emergency Services Director, Frank Young. Mr. Young had explained that he had been advised by the federal government to implement the measures for the sake of Homeland Security. Story Archive
11/5/2004 Malfeasance OH Warren County. Citing concerns about potential terrorism, officials locked down the county administration building on election night and blocked anyone from observing the vote count as the nation awaited Ohio's returns. The Warren results were part of the last tallies that helped clinch President Bush's re-election. James Lee, spokesman with the Ohio Secretary of State's Office in Columbus, said Thursday he hasn't heard of any situations similar to Warren County's building restrictions. Story
11/6/2004 Malfeasance OH Auglaize County In a letter dated Oct. 21, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of ES&S, the company that provides the voting system in Auglaize County, was on the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results, which would go against election protocol. Nuss was suspended and then resigned. Story Archive
11/18/2004 Malfeasance OH Hearings in Ohio reveal a host of problems of many types. Story
11/19/2004 Malfeasance OH Lawyers who have been documenting voting day problems in Ohio say they'll challenge the results of the presidential election as soon as the vote is official. The lawyers say documented cases of long lines, a shortage of machines and a pattern of problems in predominantly black neighborhoods are enough evidence to bring such a challenge. Story Archive
11/24/2004 Malfeasance OH Testimony of dozens of Ohio citizens revealed that, by depriving precincts of adequate numbers of functioning voting machines, Blackwell created waits of three to 11 hours, driving tens of thousands of likely Democratic voters away from the polls. Story
12/4/2004 Malfeasance OH Lucas County. An extensive housecleaning in the Lucas County elections office was announced yesterday with Elections Director Paula Hicks-Hudson resigning and four other officials suspended pending investigation into problems with the official count of the Nov. 2 election. Story Archive
12/11/2004 Malfeasance OH Cuyahoga County. In Cleveland, poll workers failed to instruct voters to use the correct punch card machines for their precinct Since the candidates were in different order in different precincts, voters using the ballot for one precinct and the machine for a different one cast votes for candidates they didn't mean to select. Story Archive
12/12/2004 Malfeasance OH Franklin County. (Columbus.) 39 voting machines, earmarked for inner-city precincts remained unused on election day. Officials have no explanation. Archive
11/11/2004 Provisional ballots OH Cuyahoga County. A new ruling about counting provisional ballots was instituted on November 9 at 2:30 pm. The new ruling in Cuyahoga County mandates that provisional ballots in yellow packets must be Rejected if there is no date of birth on the packet. The Free Press obtained copies of the original "Provisional Verification Procedure" from Cuyahoga County which stated "Date of birth is not mandatory and should not reject a provisional ballot." The original procedure required the voter’s name, address and a signature that matched the signature in the county’s database. One of the clerks said, "This is new. This just came down. They just changed it in the last thirty minutes." Story
11/12 -- Counties that were confused about whether to validate provisional ballots that don't have voters' dates of birth on them were told Friday by the secretary of state's office in a conference call to allow those ballots. Story
11/16/2004 Provisional ballots OH Of the 11 counties that have completed checking ballots, 81 percent, or 4,277 out of 5,310 ballots, are valid, according to a survey Monday by The Associated Press. Most of the counties are in rural areas. Story
11/20/2004 Provisional ballots OH Stark County (Canton). The Election Board reluctantly followed the law and rejected provisional ballots cast at the wrong precinct in the right polling place. Up until this year, they remade a ballot that was cast in the wrong precinct, meaning that the person’s vote would be put toward the appropriate races in the correct precinct. Story Archive
11/24/2004 Provisional ballots OH Cuhoga County. 8,099 provisional ballots (about 1/3 of those cast) have been ruled invalid because the voter wasn't registered or was registered in the wrong precinct. In 2000, about 17% were ruled invalid. Story
10/26/2004 Registration delays OH Cuyahoga County. The Cuyahoga County Board of Elections has botched the registrations of more than 10,000 voters, preventing them from heading to the ballot box next week, according to a lawsuit filed late Monday. Story
10/8/2004 Registration fraud OH Hamilton County is investigating 19 registrations that may be for non-existent people. Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) turned in cards with similar handwriting and false addresses. Story
11/3/2004 Testing problem OH Lucas County Election Director Paula Hicks-Hudson said the Diebold optical scan machines jammed during testing last week. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Too few ballots OH In Toledo, "a lot of people just walked away, saying they had to go to work," said voter Anthony Bumphis, who said he waited for more than an hour at Gesu School on Parkside Boulevard in West Toledo when it temporarily ran out of ballots. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Too few machines OH In Franklin and Knox counties, where voters use touch-screen units, long lines developed and voters turned to a federal judge for help as the time grew near for polls to close. To speed the voting, some of those voters were given paper ballots. Story Archive
11/14/2004 Too few machines OH Polling places in Northeast Ohio had half the number of voting machines that were needed. This caused a bottleneck at polling stations, and many people left without voting. Story Archive
10/14/2004 Vote suppression OH Knox County. Long lines caused by 989 registered voters and only two machines. Story
10/31/2004 Vote suppression OH Lake County. Some voters received a memo on bogus Board of Elections letterhead informing voters who registered through Democratic and NACCP drives that they could not vote. Election officials referred the matter to the sheriff. Story Archive
10/31/2004 Vote suppression OH Cleveland, unknown volunteers began showing up at voters' doors illegally offering to collect and deliver completed absentee ballots to the election office. Story Archive
10/31/2004 Vote suppression OH Cleveland. Voters have been receiving phone calls incorrectly informing them that their polling place had changed. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Vote suppression OH Cincinnati. "We've had reports that poll workers aren't doing a very good job putting people in the right lines for their precincts," said Molly Lombardi, a spokeswoman for the Election Protection Coalition. "People stood in line for over an hour in the rain in some places only to find they were in the wrong line. A lot of them gave up and went home." Story Archive
11/13/2004 Vote suppression OH Columbus. Carol Shelton was the presiding judge at a Columbus precinct with three machines for 1,500 registered voters. At her home precinct in Clintonville, she said there were three machines for 730 voters. "I called to get more machines and got connected to Matt Damschroder, and after lots of hassle he sent a fourth machine," she said. "It did not put a dent in the long lines." Story Archive
11/24/2004 Vote suppression OH Columbus. Sworn testimony shows a disparity between the number of voting machines provided to different precincts. With record turnouts, some precincts had fewer machines than in the past. Story
12/11/2004 Vote suppression OH Summit County. In response to a mandate from Blackwell ... or to save the tax payers' money ... or in anticipation of new voting equipment -- the county elections board members don't agree -- but whatever the reason, the county reduced it's polling places by about one-quarter, causing long lines on Nov. 2, especially in the city's predominantly African-American wards. Story1 Archive1 Story2 Archive2
10/23/2004 Voter challenges OH The Republican party took formal steps to place thousands of recruits inside polling places on Election Day to challenge the qualifications of voters they suspect are not eligible to cast ballots. Story Archive
10/24/2004 Voter challenges OH GOP files excessive registration challenges. Story1 Story2 Archive1
10/30/2004 Voter challenges OH Thousands of Republican challengers will be stationed at precincts around the state, carrying lists of recent deaths and of absentee ballot voters, to ensure that no one votes twice. They plan to challenge many of the 23,000 voters on their list, as is allowed under Ohio law. Story Archive
10/30/2004 Voter challenges OH Erie County. Voters challenged by the Republican party prove to the election board that they are legitimate. Story
10/31/2004 Voter challenges OH Civil rights lawyers for the Bush administration's Justice Department have notified a federal judge that they see no conflict with Republican plans to post thousands of partisan challengers in Ohio polling places on Election Day. Republicans plan to put about 3,600 challengers in the polls across the state; Democrats plan slightly more than 2,000. Story Archive
11/1/2004 Voter challenges OH Jefferson County. Some challenged voters have not been notified that their registration has been challenged and their right to vote is in question. Names were merely published in a nearly unreadable list in the local paper. Story
11/3/2004 Voter intimidation OH Cincinnati. Long lines and some confusion met many Hamilton County voters at the polls early this morning, with polls suddenly crowded with hundreds of vote challengers and poll monitors, most of them in heavily Democratic and overwhelmingly African-American precincts. Story Archive
11/3/2004 Voter intimidation OH Cincinnati. Voters and vote monitors complained that the GOP precinct judge was questioning every voter about his or her address and "being a jerk about it." Story Archive

Why not?

please, do the recount now so these libs can shut up and go away

lol. does it really offend republicans so much that we want to make sure every vote is counted? Isn't that what makes us so great of a country? That we try to make sure EVERY vote was counted?

no, but it offends us when a guy wins by over 100,000 votes and you still want a recount, and then I am sure if you dont win the recount you will want another one. It reminds me of a fotball team who doesnt make game winning field goal and wantsto keep kicking it until they make it. so, go ahead, do the recount, recount the whole country for all I care, all I ask is in the end, when you lose again, dont bring it up anymore.

The media is on total lockdown on this one ... that's why it isn't hitting the main streem but you can tune in to cspan and watch the Conyers hearings in the house and you'll have no doubt why they should toss out all the votes and make the state vote all over again ... this is way beyond a recount ... it's outright criminal and people need to go to jail.

Screw a recount -- vote again.

Dop

ya Dop, keep kicking that football until you make it through the uprights for the big win. I am sure with enough revotes and recounts you will get the desired results.

you know, its pretty sad. here we thought 100,000 + votes in Ohio and a clear win in the popular vote would be enough to make these librul Dems happy. it is now clear that they will only be happy when their guy wins. until then, they will continue to try and deligitamize George Bush and say the vote was stolen.

Dealing with the recount demands is very similar to dealing with small children. they kick and scream until they get their way. As parents we are not supposed to give them what they want to stop their tantrum as it will only lead to more tantrums. So do we give them the recount to shut the crybabys up up, or do we stand firm and tell them no, its over, move on to something else.

It's obvious trav that you have no idea what's going on in Ohio at this very moment, nor do you have a clue about the Conyers hearing or the whistleblowers that came forward, nor the witnesses that are testifying (under oath) or the Triad company issue of tampering with the recount machinery (and was caught with witnesses coming forward) nor the probabilities of 83 out of 85 machines tested flipping votes to bush nor the 1:11,000,000,000,000 (1:11 billion) odds that 11 of the 16 battleground states that used Diebold/ESS machines would vary by 5-7 points from the exit polls when none of the others did ... nor do you know who Cobb is nor do you know who Curtis is (and what happened to his dog) .....

Brush up and get back to me -- then we'll talk.

ROTFLMAO

Dop

You all need to get over yourselves. You lost. The only thing recounting votes and taking issue to court would do is be wasting tax dollars that could be spent on more meaningful things. Its over, John Kerry says its over, the DNC says it's over. Jesse Jackson is the one starting a fuss about it, not the Democratic party as a whole. All these things you bring up are just bogus reports b/c some losers out there can't deal with losing. Get over the election already.

If the Dems want to spend the $1.5 million on a recount (I think that was the cost) - I say let them. The state government could use the income. Mind you it's a waste of money that could be better spent on winning some other election, but again, that's their business.

It's the government that would also have to spend money on the recount (from our tax dollars).

No one says it's about a recount and no one is saying it's about Kerry claiming the white house.

It's about election fraud ... no more no less.

Apparently you're alright with election fraud.

And -- kerry did not say it's over ... his lawyers are in court as we speak and the DNC (or DLC) doesn't speak for the dems as individuals ... at least not this dem.

Welcome to the forums.

Dop

There might be some instances of voter fraud, but not enough to deter the outcome this time. It's one thing if the count was closer and another if people are just making a fuss b/c they lost. I have faith in the system and believe this is being blown out of proportion. And I don't want to spend my tax dollars on a recount.

If this really is an issue, let's get is solved by getting newer machines in there for voting. I agree some of those machines are way too old.

The only thing that ticks me off though is how people use election fraud as an excuse as to why Kerry lost, when in reality he lost by a large enough margin that would not change with a recount.

-Smithers

This is truly pathetic. Congratulations to all you liberal crybabies, for nothing affirms that belief any better than a bunch of grown men using a loose theory to waste tax dollars while collectively pouting over a substantial loss. First, it was the idiots that couldn't figure out how to vote, and now, there's a movement headed up by Jesse Jackson to recount them based on alleged impropriety. Really...what's next???

Dop, with all the evil in the world, why don't you take your sidekick, Scott Bakula, and use your super powers to leap into a parallel universe to alter the 2008 election results? One can only assume that if your "special" abilities are good enough to find prime parking at the in-out burger, then they're certainly good enough to oust Bush...

If there was a revote Kerry would lose by twice as much because people would be pissed at the idiot liberals who cryed until they got their way. Like everything else these genius libs try, it would backfire on them bigtime

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Dop, with all the evil in the world, why don't you take your sidekick, Scott Bakula, and use your super powers to leap into a parallel universe to alter the 2008 election results? One can only assume that if your "special" abilities are good enough to find prime parking at the in-out burger, then they're certainly good enough to oust Bush...

Don't need to alter '08 elections -- Triad corp. will take care of that same as they did with the '04 election (and got caught) ROTFLMAO at these amateurs.

And now I'm really confused ... I always knew you were uninformed but never realized you were clueless. Bone up on the Ohio haps and c'mon back and talk.

LOL

Dop

you need to bone up on reality dop.

It's not an issue of being clueless Dop; it's one of being realistic. What would the recounting of votes accomplish, if nothing other than wasting the taxpayer's money while making you look like a bunch of collective fools in the process? You know, Trav’s right…why don’t you try testing the resolve of people in this country by demanding a new election? If that actually happened, and you know the odds are against it, then Kerry would get his ass handed to him worse than he did in November, and that’s an immutable fact.

flyerES

It's not ***VOTER*** fraud -- it's ***ELECTION*** fraud. Big difference.

Dop

that's what I meant (election fraud)... you should still be able to get the point I'm trying to make

here, I'll change it for you..... happy now?!!

Why can't you just confront the fact that people are making this issue an excuse as to why Kerry lost??

I find it very interesting that the republicans on this board don't give a shit about election fraud. I wonder if they would feel the same way about it if it had been Kerry who had cheated and won rather than bush. Hell no. They would be screaming bloody murder. Every wealthy republican lawyer would be chomping at the bit to take something to court to show what happened. But alas, because it was bush that cheated the liberal lawyers are just being crybabies.

Get a grip on reality you guys. If election fraud is allowed to start happening, there will be no stopping it. And you can pretty much garantee that it won't be just the one side doing it for long.

Fraud is wrong. No matter who is doing it.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
flyerES

It's not ***VOTER*** fraud -- it's ***ELECTION*** fraud. Big difference.

Dop

And how was this fraud perpetrated exactly? Not only would the two Republicans on the election board in each Ohio county have to be in on it, but so would the two democrats on each board. But I guess suggestions and inuendo and some rhymes from Rev. Jesse are an OK substitute for proof.

Originally posted by Echo2
I find it very interesting that the republicans on this board don't give a shit about election fraud. I wonder if they would feel the same way about it if it had been Kerry who had cheated and won rather than bush. Hell no. They would be screaming bloody murder. Every wealthy republican lawyer would be chomping at the bit to take something to court to show what happened. But alas, because it was bush that cheated the liberal lawyers are just being crybabies.

Get a grip on reality you guys. If election fraud is allowed to start happening, there will be no stopping it. And you can pretty much garantee that it won't be just the one side doing it for long.

Fraud is wrong. No matter who is doing it.

I'm going to take this reply as a "no I can't" to answering my simple question which was:

"Why can't you just confront the fact that people are making this issue an excuse as to why Kerry lost??"


-Smithers

"Why can't you just confront the fact that people are making this issue an excuse as to why Kerry lost??"

Bla. Bla. Bla. Okay answer me this hot shot. Nader got hardly any votes this election. Why? Because the Nader supporters rushed to get Bush out, by voting for Kerry. Nader was down in the 1% area, while he was much, much higher last election. So if all the Nader people typically voted Kerry this time, why did Bush get EVEN MORE of the popular vote? I mean, it would only seem fitting Kerry would get the popular vote since all the Nader people switched this time around.

Originally posted by Overdose
"Why can't you just confront the fact that people are making this issue an excuse as to why Kerry lost??"

Bla. Bla. Bla. Okay answer me this hot shot. Nader got hardly any votes this election. Why? Because the Nader supporters rushed to get Bush out, by voting for Kerry. Nader was down in the 1% area, while he was much, much higher last election. So if all the Nader people typically voted Kerry this time, why did Bush get EVEN MORE of the popular vote? I mean, it would only seem fitting Kerry would get the popular vote since all the Nader people switched this time around.

Hot shot, eh? I don't know if I'd say that, but ok, here ya go:

How can you even compare two different elections that had two different Democratic candidates?!! (Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004) You can't just say all the people that voted for Gore would automatically vote for Kerry b/c he was also a Democrat.

Some of the moderate Democrats could have likely voted for Bush this time around b/c they didn't like Kerry as a candidate for the job.
OR
Gore could have received more votes b/c he had the experience of VP for two terms.
OR
There wasn't an incumbent president running in the 2000 election so more votes went to a moderate party.
OR
Maybe not all the Nader votes you talk about went to Kerry.

You see, there are too many possibilities for you to generalize about the small margin of the popular vote.

You have to use logic here. This isn't a very logical conclusion you have come to.


-Smithers

Originally posted by flyerES
How can you even compare two different elections that had two different Democratic candidates?!! (Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004) You can't just say all the people that voted for Gore would automatically vote for Kerry b/c he was also a Democrat.
Yes, I can. My mother worked for the Kerry/Edwards campaign and Democrats turned out in record numbers for John Kerry…and we had the highest registration ever.

Originally posted by flyerES
Maybe not all the Nader votes you talk about went to Kerry.
How do you know? It’s very likely that they would vote for Kerry over George Bush. Don’t you think?

Originally posted by flyerES
You see, there are too many possibilities for you to generalize about the small margin of the popular vote.

You have to use logic here. This isn't a very logical conclusion you have come to.

Wrong. It seems highly ironic that Nader would get less of the percent, but then Kerry would get less of the percent.

Ok, my point was that you are just making random assumptions as in this last post.

How about you quit making random assumptions about the election and get some facts first. Before you post again, ask yourself if you can undeniably prove your point.

And about you're mom telling you Democrats turned out in record #s, so did the Republicans in Ohio baby!! I did my share to get the vote out since I live here in the swing state and all.


-Smithers

it is incomprehensible to the liberal dems that people would intentionally not vote for their superior platform. how could anyone vote against all the good things they say they want to do!? its insane!! its got to be fraud, no other explanation.

1) There are eye witnesses that testified to Triad corp. changing the numbers in the 3%-precinct-machines to make them tally with the reported results. This is a violation of the federal election laws. Should this be investigated?

Yes___ No___

2) A programmer for one of the election machine manufacturers was asked by Feeny (rep - Florida) to write and embed code in the Florida machines that would guarantee a republican win in his state. This is a violation of several federal laws. Should this be investigated?

Yes___ No___

3) An Ohio county intentionally destroyed all their voting records so a recount would be impossible. The federal elections laws states all records must be kept for 2 years. Should this be investigated?

Yes___ No___

4) An Ohio county has locked down all it's voting records so a recount will be impossible. This is a violation of both state and federal laws that prohibit this action. Should this be investigated?

Yes___ No___

5) Kenneth Blackwell, who controls the elections in Ohio, has his office in a private building and paying for it with tax payers money. Last week, a team of democrats entered the building to see him about the elections. He refused to face them and had them arrested. Should this be investigated?

Yes___ No___



6) Of the random machines that were tested in Ohio after the election, 83 of 85 machines flipped Kerry's votes to Bush. Should this be investigated?

Yes___ No___

7) Actual vote count differed from the exit polls by an average of 6% in 11 battleground states where they were well within the .5% as expected in nearly every other state. Statisticians put the odds of this happening at 11 billion to 1. Should this be investigated?

Yes___ No___

Dop

Dop, calm down. there is no massive conspiracy to steal the election from John Kerry. He lost on his own accord. He was a bad candidate. the Democrats do not have a god given right to win presidential elections, thats why we count the votes and not the exit polls.

One more time just for you trav -- t's not about kerry in the white house nor is it about a recount.

Let me shout it

IT's ABOUT ELECTION FRAUD AND THE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO VOTE IN OUR GREAT COUNTRY

If you deny there is a problem and nothing needs to change then you are truly unamerican.

Dop

Originally posted by Overdose
How do you know? It’s very likely that they would vote for Kerry over George Bush. Don’t you think?

They would probably vote for Kerry over Bush, but given that they don't have any problem with third party candidates, it seems just as likely that they would vote for a different third party candidate.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
One more time just for you trav -- t's not about kerry in the white house nor is it about a recount.

Let me shout it

IT's ABOUT ELECTION FRAUD AND THE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO VOTE IN OUR GREAT COUNTRY

If you deny there is a problem and nothing needs to change then you are truly unamerican.

Dop

sorry dop, i dont believe you. I have a hard time believing you would be just as outraged if Kerry had won under the same circumstances, seems more like you would be throwing a party. I guess I am a bit jaded by years of left wing partisan attacks and goofy off the wall conspiracy theorys, not to mention all the wrong predictions. It reminds me of the story I tell my little boy, its called The Boy Who Cried Wolf. So if its unamerican for me to swallow everything you say hook line and sinker, whatever.

Trav -- these witnesses testified in person at the Conyers hearing (House of Representatives) just this week and they were all under oath and it was shown live on CSPAN...

Yet you say you don't believe these things happened and apparently you feel these people were not real.

WOW! -- You've crossed the bridge from denial to cognitive dissonance.

Dop

Dop, republicans and democrats get equally screwed in every election. If you think the dems are sqeaky clean when it comes to manipulation you are the one who has crossed the bridge. Storys of giving out crack cocaine and cartons of cigarettes to inner city welfare recipiants to vote democrat spring to mind. I am not buing hte giant conspiracy about tampering with the election machines. somewhere along the line a democrat would have to have been involved, and problaby a lot more then one democrat too.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you george bush worshipers would still be calling the democrats crybabies and poor losers if/when the evidence of election tampering comes out in court and is proven?

Would he still be your hero? Would you justify his cheating because his political views match yours? Would you still want him to be president?

Please be honest.

George bush worshippers? So if we don't loathe the guy we worship him? whatever echo. I dont believe anyone really believes all this crap. if thre were that many there would be giant demostrations and civil unrest. If it was proven Bush cheated the entire system I would be in the demonstrations agaisnt him.

You didn't answer the question. And OK, I'll play along...how about instead of worshipers I say "suporters". I just am interested - if it came out that this really did happen and it was proven in a court of law....

Would he still be someone you want running our nation? Would you justify his cheating because his political views match yours? Would you still support him?

What the hell do you mean he "didn't answer the question"??? He answered it perfectly...

I guess the line

"If it was proven Bush cheated the entire system I would be in the demonstrations agaisnt him. "

wasnt clear enough.

No. It was clear enough. I got distracted here at work while reading your response and apparantly didn't finish. I appologize. And thank you for an honest answer.

Originally posted by Echo2
No. It was clear enough. I got distracted here at work while reading your response and apparantly didn't finish. I appologize. And thank you for an honest answer.

Looks like someone's an iddiott!!!

just kidding... sorry, i couldn't help it.

LOL. I deserved that.

The real iddiott (spelled wrong on purpose) is the guy paying me big bucks for a job that takes up about four hours of my time everyday so I sit at this computer and play for the other four hours.

Good, clean fun here??? We can't have that...

Originally posted by Echo2
The real iddiott (spelled wrong on purpose) is the guy paying me big bucks for a job that takes up about four hours of my time everyday so I sit at this computer and play for the other four hours.
That's pretty sad. Maybe you should find something to do instead of bilking the employment fund at a nonprofit organization. Real noble of you...

yea....i dont support anyone who messes up the electoral system....but its common knowledge that BOTH sides have extremists that will try EVERY four years. I doubt George W. Bush was tearing apart election machines, rewriting votes for himself in person.....and i doubt he would ever order such an action. Its just the extremist people who claim to represent him. And Kerry had the same kind of nut jobs as well.....

This just in from Ms. X in Greene County, Oh. ....

snip<--------------- cut here ---------------->snip

3 precincts have been counted in Greene County (442, 224, and 31). The machine counts did not match the hand counts in 2 of these precincts. Yet, BOE Officials are refusing to conduct the mandatory hand recounts as prescribed by Ohio law.

Ms. X confirms that the 3 precincts chosen were not at random and that Triad visited each of these precincts prior to the recount.

snip<--------------- cut here ---------------->snip


ROTFLMAO -- I'm not even a lawyer and can come up with at least 3 violations of the federal election laws just based on these 2 paragraphs....

Dop