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Idioteque
12-09-2004, 06:38 PM
It's a great day for civil rights. I can only hope America will follow her neighbor's example.


TORONTO - Canada's Supreme Court ruled Thursday that gay marriage was constitutional, a landmark opinion allowing the federal government to call on Parliament to legalize same-sex unions nationwide.



If approved by a majority of the House of Commons, as widely expected, Canada would become the third country to embrace marriage by homosexuals and lesbians. Belgium and the Netherlands are the other two.

However, the court added that religious officials cannot be forced to perform unions against their beliefs. It also declined to answer a contentious question about whether traditional marriage between men and women also was constitutional.

Prime Minister Paul Martin said after the court's ruling that since judges in six Canadian provinces and one of its territories already allow gay marriages, it should be approved nationwide. He said his government would introduce a bill shortly after Christmas.

He noted that members of Parliament would be free to vote their conscience, but his Cabinet ministers would have to support his bill.

"For many Canadians and many parliamentarians, this is a difficult issue involving personal and religious convictions and it represents a very significant change to a long-standing institution," Martin said.

The court's decision brings to the final stages a long, bitter fight over whether gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry in Canada. Public opinion is evenly divided on the matter, and advocates for both sides are preparing for the final phase of the battle.

"This is a victory for Canadian values," said Alex Munter of Canadians for Equal Marriage.

He said that while public opinion may be split on the subject, Canadians endorse the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the constitution's bill of rights.

"One area of overwhelming consensus is that the charter is a document that Canadians cherish," Munter said.

In the United States, gay marriage is opposed by a majority of Americans, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll taken in November, shortly after constitutional amendments in 11 states to ban same-sex marriage were approved.

"I think it's a tremendously historic day that will help not just families in Canada, but people across the border who are wrestling with this question, of how the denial of marriage harms gay people and their loved ones," said Evan Wolfson, executive director of Freedom to Marry, a gay-rights coalition based in New York.

"Canada is setting a standard for inclusion and fairness, and offering the real proof that ending discrimination helps families and hurts no one."

Wolfson said of Canadians: "We now have the benefit of your wind in our sails, and we are charting the same course."

In California, the Campaign for Children and Families called the Supreme Court opinion "shabby." California's state legislature last week began reconsidering a bill legalizing marriage licenses for gay couples.

To pass in the House of Commons, the legislation needs the approval of about 44 of the 95 Liberal backbench members of Parliament to obtain a 155-vote majority in the 308-seat House.

One top Liberal predicted the legislation should pass easily after its introduction, likely early next year. It already has the support of the 38-member Liberal cabinet and virtually all the 54 Bloc Quebecois and 19 New Democrat lawmakers.



However, some Liberal members of Parliament are opposed.

"I do personally have a problem with redefining marriage and I'm sure some of my colleagues do as well," said Roy Cullen of the Liberal Party.

Gordon Young, pastor of the First Assembly of God Church in St. John's, Newfoundland, was disappointed by the ruling.

"It's a sad day for our country," Young told CBC television news. "God is in the DNA of this nation. We believe that changing the definition of marriage is changing the divine institution that God put in place for the order of our society."

In its ruling, the Supreme Court said the legal definition of marriage should change with public opinion over time.

"Several centuries ago, it would have been understood that marriage be available only to opposite-sex couples," the court said. "The recognition of same-sex marriage in several Canadian jurisdictions as well as two European countries belies the assertion that the same is true today."

The opinion is not legally binding and it now is up to the federal government to make gay marriage protected by law nationwide.

The high court opinion comes 18 months after former Prime Minister Jean Chretien abandoned his government's fight against same-sex marriage by refusing to appeal provincial court rulings in Ontario, British Columbia and Quebec, which declared traditional marriage laws unconstitutional.

His government then drafted legislation that would allow gay and lesbian weddings in city halls, courthouses and in religious institutions that choose to perform them. To ensure the bill would be passed, the Liberal government asked the Supreme Court three questions:

_ Does the federal government have exclusive authority to define marriage?

_ Does the charter protect religious groups from having to perform gay weddings against their beliefs?

_ Is the proposed same-sex marriage law constitutional?

Martin added a fourth question after he was sworn in a year ago: Is the traditional definition of marriage — between one man and one woman — also constitutional? This was aimed at clarifying whether the century-old definition of marriage was flawed.

The Supreme Court answered in the affirmative to the first three questions but declined to address Martin's query.



link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041209/ap_on_re_ca/canada_same_sex_marriage_12)

Overdose
12-09-2004, 06:39 PM
God Bless Canada!

HaVoK
12-09-2004, 08:28 PM
Yay!!! Now all you liberals have absolutely no reason not to become a Canadian citizen. It's a good day for America.

DaveTooner
12-09-2004, 09:27 PM
OD, in your opinion would you say Canada is a superior country to the US?

WhammyBar
12-09-2004, 10:35 PM
i onder what it is abour canada that makes it so muhc more reasonably run then our country. i think it may have something to do with the parliamentry democracy, and that [erhpas we should take a good hard look at their systme and wonder if it isn't any better than ours.

Overdose
12-09-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by DaveTooner
OD, in your opinion would you say Canada is a superior country to the US?
Why would I think Canada is a superior country? I will always love America more then any other country. Although, I agree more with what Canada is doing...but does that mean they are superior? Hell no. We've helped so many countries, and although we have our bad stuff about us (Iraq War etc.) we still have more good to out-weigh the bad. Canada really, has nothing. Except they are extremely liberal...but they don't do much to help the world community.

Overall, I also find this question offensive. I don’t really like that you imply I hate this country. I love this country dearly, and I know it’s hard for you conservatives to grasp.

Dio Seijuro
12-10-2004, 03:34 AM
It's not about the government. It's about the people and culture. America has a large population of conservative people and today a curious divided culture. Although many countries have similar divide in people's political/moral philosophy, most are becoming less conservative. I'm surprised at how America is becoming more conservative than a lot of countries too. 20~30 years ago (of coure I'm not old enough to really tell, only by reading) it seemed so much more liberal than other countries.

Again, I am not making any judgment on what's right and wrong, although I have my preferances. All I am saying is whatever the American government does these days will most likely satisfy and upset 50% of its people.

DanF
12-10-2004, 08:59 AM
Well, I guess a lot of Americans will be packing up now to go to Canada. Read a while back how Canada needed more immigrants. Could be that they are changing their laws to attract people.

Are abortions legal up there?

Is the pledge allowed in schools up there?

Is prayer allowed in schools up there?

They have socialized medicine.

Wow, a new train of thought. People can get the laws changed in Canada to suit them and move up there. First could be all the people that are against the war in Iraq. I don't think they have any troops there.

There probably will be no draft ever up there. Cowards welcome.

Will be cold as heck! Take your longhandles.

Rolader
12-10-2004, 11:30 AM
All i can say is Canada has made a huge mistake.

Blibblob
12-10-2004, 05:05 PM
Well, I guess a lot of Americans will be packing up now to go to Canada. Read a while back how Canada needed more immigrants. Could be that they are changing their laws to attract people.
After the election results were in, Canada's immigration website crashed from too many visitors.

Travh20
12-10-2004, 05:22 PM
maybe there can be a forced march of libs to canada like the Trail of Tears, only it will be the Trail of Queers, LMAO, sorry, I couldnt reisist. no offense to our gay members

Overdose
12-10-2004, 06:25 PM
Funny? Except I want to stay here and shove my agenda down everyone's throat. Sorry. I <3 Canada though.

Blibblob
12-10-2004, 09:14 PM
maybe there can be a forced march of libs to canada like the Trail of Tears, only it will be the Trail of Queers, LMAO, sorry, I couldnt reisist. no offense to our gay members
Oh come on. If you want that, why not just follow splitting the north and the south. United States of Canada and Jesusland?

DanF
12-10-2004, 11:02 PM
Trav :)

creetwins
12-11-2004, 09:21 AM
Canada really, has nothing. Except they are extremely liberal...but they don't do much to help the world community.

Overdose you had me right up until this dumb comment.

If it wasn't for a Canadian, Millions of diabetic Americans would be dead now, because they wouldn't have their insulin.

The telephone, only a minor contribution to modern communications.....

don't make me go on, please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself any further.

When 911 happened, whose airports took all your mid flight planes because your country was suffering a major attack.....

ocloren
12-11-2004, 02:09 PM
My response: Gay

Overdose
12-11-2004, 02:12 PM
;) cute

philosophytara
12-12-2004, 01:20 AM
well I think that perhaps our country is becomming more Conservative then liberal these days is because we have become a "Super Power" and sometimes with great power and status one most do less then honorable things to insure the future of this great country. (and no that was not a quote from George W. Bush )

on an ending note.

Michael Moore Rocks!

Travh20
12-12-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Blibblob
maybe there can be a forced march of libs to canada like the Trail of Tears, only it will be the Trail of Queers, LMAO, sorry, I couldnt reisist. no offense to our gay members
Oh come on. If you want that, why not just follow splitting the north and the south. United States of Canada and Jesusland?

if you want to leave you are no longer united sates of anything, your canadian

revenG_DeSire
12-13-2004, 10:33 PM
Hey here's another question. What makes the states of america *united?* Is it just the fact that they're next to each other or something else?