Pearl Harbour, the world wars, Iraq, the Civil War, are but a few of the historical reminders of the waste of lives and assets because of the ambitions of a few. Countless miseries inflicted upon countless people.
A world that could achieve peace would be a world that could turn efforts and financies to the betterment of man-kind and nature. So many assets are extended to maintain defenses and war machines that programs such as medical research become step-children to the fears and desires of certain individuals. Children which go un-nurished in lands of plenty.
Let us hope that one day men can put aside greed and ambition and we can turn to those things that heal and nuture.
Some how we must take the profit of war away from those that encourage its substance.
Just think of the unlimited number of advancements possible if all resources were turned away from the worlds war machines.
Medical research, space exploration, environmental cleanup, and world hunger elimination are just a few of the things that could be fully explored.
What can each of us do to help? or is it hopeless?

In your lifetime its hopeless, i honestly wouldnt even bother thinking of it.

I would love a utopia and because of that im trying to move to Japan where i consider it to be the closest i can get to such a world.

Live in a small totally Christian village and im pretty sure youll have the same effect, life will be beautiful there wont be muggings, etc etc, everyone looks out for each other.

You will obviouslly have to stop certain things to allign with the whole faith but if your really wanting a Utopia it seems the best alternative.

In your lifetime its hopeless, i honestly wouldnt even bother thinking of it.

That's just cold. Poor Dan! There ARE ways to help... join in demonstrations, give money to charity, recycle, and get other people to do the same. How do you know the next generation isn't going to think exactly like you, Loki? All together now: "Heal the world, make it a better place..." Shoot me now, please.

The solution to the problems you describe is for the world to stop thinking of themselves as us an them. Us and them thinking begins early in childhood. If you get three children together, two of them, more than likely will align themselves against the other.
You mentioned the civil war. That was when the united States became the United states. Once we stopped thinking of ourselves as citizens of our states, and became citizens of our country, the danger of civil war receded.
This is the true danger of the red state - blue state phenomena. If carried to it's possible end, it could lead to civil war. Oh were not really close to that yet, except for a few on this forum who like to post in Politics. But moving in that direction seems foolish.
In order to end war in the world, we must come to think of ourselves as citizens of the world. We must all become us. Unfortunately, the only way I can think of for that to happen is an invasion of space aliens. Let that happen and the differences between humans would become petty and irrelevant.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lokideviluk
[B]In your lifetime its hopeless, i honestly wouldnt even bother thinking of it.

I would love a utopia and because of that im trying to move to Japan where i consider it to be the closest i can get to such a world
-------------------------------------

I am logical enough to not consider these things happening in my lifetime. But, if I can plant a few seeds in my lifetime that may take root, I have been a success.

Why would you move to Japan? Why not try to start changes where you are?

Dan mate, no offense but if you were going to change the world it might have helped to start a little earlier.

Because i find the surroundings of Japan peaceful.

Good luck though :)

*sigh*

In the first place war also provides innovation. The computer, radar, sonar, GPS, the jet engine, airports, nuclear power, the ballistic missle, nylon, the submarine, the internet either started as govenment projects during war or were vastly impoved upon as a result of war. War changes everything, sometimes for the better.

Also, there IS an us versus them, though most don't realize it. There is the Free World, the countries were its citizens enjoy the rights, priviledges, dignities, wealth and oppurtunities and there is the other half. The countries ran by tyrants, communists, Radical Islamists and others. These countries are the main exporters of terrorism, WMDs, and just make life miserable to all they come in contact with.

You want a world truly at peace, the first step has to, and I mean really has to first start with eliminating those elements in the world that hold people oppressed. And to be honest, I'm not too picky about the methods. Dammit!

Victory first, then peace. I mean it.

I agree Darth, that tyrants in charge must be removed from power. The people must first want this to be done. Various fears hamper this action.

In the first place war also provides innovation. The computer, radar, sonar, GPS, the jet engine, airports, nuclear power, the ballistic missle, nylon, the submarine, the internet either started as govenment projects during war or were vastly impoved upon as a result of war. War changes everything, sometimes for the better.
Ends justify the means? Killing a million innocents is acceptable to creating something that makes life more comfortable for billions of others? All of those inventions were discovered by scientists. By happenchance the military decided that the first possible use of it was for them. Scientists are not known to be very good at figuring out what is so damn important and useful about what they do. Most research is for, frankly, "scientific purposes", which means that the scientist just decided to do something some day and has no bloody clue what the hell else to do with that information. The military may fund things, but they also funded the creation of the internet, which had nothing to do with military uses. We don't need to kill millions of people for some kind of stupid advancement which never needed war to be created in the first place. Science doesn't need that kind of push.

There is the Free World, the countries were its citizens enjoy the rights, priviledges, dignities, wealth and oppurtunities and there is the other half. The countries ran by tyrants, communists, Radical Islamists and others
So you think that you can state with full seriousness that you think that we are so perfect to judge others... and kill on that decision?

You want a world truly at peace, the first step has to, and I mean really has to first start with eliminating those elements in the world that hold people oppressed. And to be honest, I'm not too picky about the methods. Dammit!
War has lead to war, to pain, punishment, death, destruction, evil.
Quote that every respectable proponent of peace should know by heart: “What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or in the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
"The true democrat is he who with purely nonviolent means defends his liberty and, therefore, his country's and ultimately that of the whole of mankind"
Mahatma Gandhi

Good quote Blib.

Originally posted by Blibblob
[b]
"The true democrat is he who with purely nonviolent means defends his liberty and, therefore, his country's and ultimately that of the whole of mankind"
Mahatma Gandhi

But name three and what they accomplished long-term (and though I admire MLK, he anticipated the violence he would catalyze and was aware of the usefullness of the images, so he didn't use "purely nonviolent means").

But name three and what they accomplished long-term (and though I admire MLK, he anticipated the violence he would catalyze and was aware of the usefullness of the images, so he didn't use "purely nonviolent means").
A) "True Democrat"
B) People are stupid
C) "Defends his liberty"
D) People are stupid

Now examples of nonviolent people and what they catalyzed:
Gandhi ended the British control of India, brought it into the modern world and helped put in place a Democracy.
The Monk who set himself on fire(that is the most moving picture I have ever seen in my life). His action "led to the overthrow of the Diem regime in South Vietnam in November of 1963."(Source (http://www.uwec.edu/greider/BMRB/culture/student.work/hicksr/))
Finally, I'll use Jimmy Carter. Carter's list of world assistance is long and we know full well how well he's done after his presidency. Negotiations often go well, and he founded the Carter Center working towards peace and welfare of the world. How much longer will Carter make an impression? We don't know, but I can assure you wit will be well past his death.

http://www.uwec.edu/greider/BMRB/culture/student%2Ework/hicksr/images/thqudc.jpg

Originally posted by Blibblob
[b]
A) "True Democrat"
B) People are stupid
C) "Defends his liberty"
D) People are stupid



I don't know what you meant by these four statements.

The self-immolating monk wouldn't fit Mahatma's definition of "purely non-violent".

And let's not exaggerate Jimmy Carter's role in anything. Even the accord he negotiated for the Koreas, that was cited by the Nobel Committee, has fallen apart. The Nobel Committee as much as stated that the award was given to Carter as a poke at President Bush. So even the Nobel Committee didn't agree that he had done anything on his own to merit the prize.

(("Mr Berge said the award to Mr Carter "should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken".
"It's a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States," he said.))
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2321295.stm

Building some houses has been for the long term good of a few families (if long term means 40 or so years)

Blibobb,

This is the thing about not being able to post for a while, someone always sneaks up behind your back with garbage, and you just can't respond to it.

In the first place, wars are not fought so new things are invented. Things are invented, and growth is stimulated as wars are fought. People sure as hell don't go to war so new things can be invented. There is no end to justify the means, millions do not die in order for scientific advancement. Where the hell did you come up with that idea?

Also, you are dead wrong about the internet. The idea of the arpanet (forerunner of the internet) was to allow for computer communication in the event a nuclear bomb were to wipe out a city and it's infrastructure.


Also, I do think we are the ones who have the right to decide the actions of others. Or would you rather have the communists, fascists, dictators, thugs and the taliban do it? Historically, they have had zero problem decided who should live and who should die, and raping their wealth off the misery of others. We, the United States and a few other free world countries spread freedom, democracy, free speech, end slavery. The list goes on. The United States helps its enemies, after victory is won, to become a free and better society. Historically, that has never happened before.

Your quote:

"War has lead to war, to pain, punishment, death, destruction, evil.
Quote that every respectable proponent of peace should know by heart: “What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or in the holy name of liberty and democracy?"

So we should sit back and do nothing should we? Let tyrants have their way with their people and do nothing because some of the innocent may die with the rest? Maybe get a good oil deal from the tyrant while the people are placed in mass graves, the way the French and the Russians did with Saddam? We should do nothing in Rwanda, should we? That 's a real bullshit way of looking at the world.

I'm not at all impressed at your quote by Ghandi. There was a school teacher in India who was quoted as saying "If Hitler had been ruling India, Ghandi would've been a lampshade." The non violent protest shtick only works on free and MORAL societies, which was Britain. Do you honestly believe Ghandi would've succeeded in his non-violent protest against Joeseph Stalin? How about the Mongel Hordes? Are you honestly that damn naive?

One Planet, One People
Idealistic maybe..used to see it on bumper stickers..

It would be nice if some of that Christmas spirit was shared all year..
IE..Peace on earth, good will towards men.
Might make things seem a little less hopeless if we could make some changes and embrace our differences from continent to continent, from country to country, from one religious belief to another and from man to man.

We changed after the 9/11 attacks. Around the world attitudes changed the way people viewed others different then themselves. We began profiling trying to get a handle on the thinking that drives the radical Muslim factions.



"The best thing to give to your enemy is forgiveness; to an opponent, tolerance; to a friend, your heart; to your child, a good example; to a father, deference; to your mother, conduct that will make her proud of you; to yourself, respect; to all men, charity."
Francis Maitland Balfour

Jim,

First off, the radical islamists have zero interest in "embracing differences" with any other culture. To them, it's either you ebrace their brand of Islam, or you get your head sawed off with a knife. Believe it.

Also, I take a very dim view of this "different cultures" crap people seem to spew from time to time. The core of America, the core culture, is the right to choose you want to be. To follow a certain way of life, or not follow it as one wishes. There is also always the idea, promise really, that one can better themselves here. Those two ideas I've outlined are UNIVERSAL, which is why Irish Catholic, English protestant, buddhist, muslims, jews, chinese, japanese, koreans and blacks can all live in one place (such as New York) without being at one another's throat. Those people are to busy deciding what they want to be, and trying to make a better life for themselves to give one rat's rear end about what the other guy's views or skin color is. This is something America is very good at doing, and something the Taliban can't seem to grasp.

Dammit.

Radical religious extremists make some of the most devistating chapters in history.
All in the name of God(one name or another). Must be what it feels like to consider yourself "righteous".
It would be a noble concept for the Iraqis and or Muslims to take responsibility and police their own people. That wouldn't be a bad idea for any religion and their radical factions..
>The Catholics take responsibility for the priests..
>Christian Identity for Eric Rudolph..
>The Protestants for the KKK..
>the Baptists for Jerry Falwell..
>The Christian Right for Bush..
etc..etc..

If you Zealots embrace the notion that your religion and beliefs are righteous with out err,
then step up take charge; police your people and keep your house in order.
If not then don't be surprised by a visit from the world police.:mad:

Jim,

I've read a bit of history and have a jump on you there. The West had the benefits of the Renaisance, the Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution, those have passed the Islamic world by. Also, the West embraced commerce and stopped looking down on merchants as the scum of the earth. Something many cultures failed to grasp, and some still fail to grasp. To put it bluntly, the West believed in trade, rather than conquest, the act of going out and taking someone ELSE'S stuff. With science, democracy and capitalism and the driving force of the West, we have grown strong, and wealthy. Most of the Middle East still flounders about impoverished. Oil is the only real source of income, and if there is ever discovered a new and better source of energy, the Mid East can literally sink into the ocean and no one will notice. Have you ever heard of any scientific invention done by those living in the Middle East? Medical discoveries? New and better cars, phones, computers? You haven't and for good reason.

There are now two schools of thought in the Mid East. There are those, the moderate Islamists, who believe that Islam must embrace the modern way of life, science democracy and capitalism. Then there is the Radical Islamists, who want fourteenth century Islam, the entire Middle East ruled by Allah, only then, the Bin Ladens believe, will the glory that was once the Middle East will return.

What this war on terror is really about is trying to bring the Modern World to the Middle East, and there are those who bitterly oppose it. That is why the 9/11 attacks happened, why Bin Laden was incensed that U.S. troops were stationed in Saudi Arabia. And why there are so many terrorist attacks in Iraq.

The West simply can't pull out of the Middle East. Our ideas, our culture is spreading, and those opposed to it will stop at nothing to try and destroy the West.

It isn't about policing western religions that you have mentioned, catholics, protestants and others don't rule entire countries, the actions of the KKK and Catholic priests are not condoned.

The only way to have peace in the Middle East is to have democracy there. No other way, which is why the U.S. must win this war on terror.