It's been discussed in two other threads on this board, but hasn't been directly addressed. The first two clauses of the First Amendment to the Constitution are:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Any discussion that we have on church and state in America hinges on that one sentence. So my question is, what specifically does that part of the First Amendment mean in your opinion?

That the government stays out of religion and that religion stays out of government. Although I don't think it in any way means that the government has to pretend that religion doesn't exist or that a large percentage of the population isn't religious.

Right. Another way you could say that is that it grants freedom OF religion to the people, and freedom FROM religion to the government.

So that brings me to another question: With regard to the First Amendment, are recent efforts to keep religion out of government (eg. school prayer, the Ten Commandments case in Alabama, the pledge, the LA County seal) encroachments on freedom of religion and religious expression?

Originally posted by Jester
Right. Another way you could say that is that it grants freedom OF religion to the people, and freedom FROM religion to the government.

So that brings me to another question: With regard to the First Amendment, are recent efforts to keep religion out of government (eg. school prayer, the Ten Commandments case in Alabama, the pledge, the LA County seal) encroachments on freedom of religion and religious expression?

NO. Religions can pretty much do and say anything they want anywhere they want (as long as the insitution they are preaching from is not supported by government or they are not using government money to do it. i.e.taxpayers money.

This was meant to keep people from having their tax dollors go to supporting a religion that they do not believe in. Also to keep tge government from endorsing any particular religion. The early migration to this country was for religious freedom that was uncontrolled by the government.

Originally posted by Echo2
This was meant to keep people from having their tax dollors go to supporting a religion that they do not believe in. Also to keep tge government from endorsing any particular religion. The early migration to this country was for religious freedom that was uncontrolled by the government.
I do want to throw in that another reason for the First Amendment was not just to keep religion from interfering with government, but to keep government from interfering with religion.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
That the government stays out of religion and that religion stays out of government. Although I don't think it in any way means that the government has to pretend that religion doesn't exist or that a large percentage of the population isn't religious.

I agree with that completely.

BTW.....that **government stays out of religion** means just that.

Government stays out of religion.

Completely.

That means that no governor and no president and NO elected official gets to pose in front of the Media and strut before the millions of adherants of ONE particular majority religion holding aloft an icon belonging to that ONE particular religion, grinning like someone who thinks he's just glimpsed Paradise.

So you think everyone who has a public job has to turn his/her back on religion? It doesnt work that way, and hopefully never will in my lifetime.

I think you all know this, but your post is just another example where you ladies want to bitch and moan about "seeing" religion.



My post is directed at Freethinker.

Originally posted by HaVoK
So you think everyone who has a public job has to turn his/her back on religion?

No.

I did not say or suggest anything remotely resembling that.

But you knew that.

Originally posted by Freethinker

I did not say or suggest anything remotely resembling that.


At the very least, your post resembled that. It's pretty hard for a politician who is followed around by the media at all times to avoid looking like they're endorsing the religion that they choose to participate in.

Folks: Need I point out that no part of our constitution has any control over religion, just over our government about religion. Religions and religious establishments can do what they want, y'know, within all laws; the first ammendment just tells the government not to interfere with or promote any religion. The sentence quoted above only regulates one lane on the church / state road.