religion is a system of belief in society. A ritual is main part of religion that builds citizens of the society to trust, respect the ideology of the society. Each religion has its own inscription for its group. When number of followers grew and opted to join the group that resulted to expansion of particular religion. On the other hand in many cases conversion method by force or temptation was/ is also adopted to expand its wings. :comphit:

What is religion and how did it exist (http://www.sadashivan.com/freephotos4ursocialstudy/id24.html)

religion- a belief in, and worship of ,God or gods; a system of faith and worship.

What is religion?

Some bullshit :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sadashivan
[B]religion is a system of belief in society. A ritual is main part of religion that builds citizens of the society to trust, respect the ideology of the society.

Yes, as long as the ideology of all members of the society are the same. But, those of different Ideology are considered a type of outcast or not-belonging causing hard feelings or internal wars.

A crutch for people who need it.
A tool to control followers actions and beliefs.
A place to turn for those who are in psychological pain.

The basic guidlines for humanity are spelled out very simply in all the great religions. That being The golden rule. For example the christians have the ten comandments.

Unfortunately interpretation of scripture tends to cause factions to break away from the basic guidelines and add a myraid of other rules and laws to their belief system. These factions are most often radical or fanatical and can cause great harm if left to their own devices. Radical Muslims become terrorists and want everyone to live by their idea of morality. Fanatical Christians become fundamentalists and want everyone to live by their morality.

Religion can be a good thing if applied to ones own personal life. It becomes a bad thing when forced upon others personal lifes.

Deep within the soul of each human being is the knowledge that there is a god, that we are accountable to him, and that we have fallen short of his expectations for us.

Religion is man's attempt to reconcile himself with God.

Some religions try to do this by following a certain set of rules of rituals.

Some people try to reconcile themselves to God by trying to live what they personally define as a "good life".

Christians are reconciled to God by realizing that there is no way that humans can meet God's expectations and relying on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Some people try to reconcile themselves to God by trying to convince themselves that he doesn't even exist.

And some people try to reconcile themselfs to their god by insisting that deap down inside everyone believes in their sky fairy.

Originally posted by Echo2

Fanatical Christians become fundamentalists and want everyone to live by their morality.

Sin is what has made this world into such a mess. The world is in such shambles because of many people are living in wickedness. If people lived right, this world wouldn't be in such the mess that it is in now.

Much of the morality in the bible in which we are to follow is just common sense. Treating people right, honesty and integrity, helping others out when in need, being faithful in marriage, understanding to others, being fair and just to others, keeping yourself from profanity and cursing.

What's do many find so bad about that?

Religion can be a good thing if applied to ones own personal life. It becomes a bad thing when forced upon others personal lifes. [/B]

Gid gave us a freewill. He won't force His will on anyone, neither should we. All of us however, will be accountable unto Him for how we live our lives. We are required to live rigtheously according to what we know to be right.

Of course Echo has to use a thread attempting to define religion as an opportunity to bash it.

If you don't mind I would like to open this thread up a little Please do not feel I am starting a pi**ing match.

Originally posted by the J Man
]Sin is what has made this world into such a mess.

Sin? who sets the standard, and which sin is worse then the other?

The world is in such shambles because of many people are living in wickedness. If people lived right, this world wouldn't be in such the mess that it is in now.

Please explain what you mean by wickedness?

Much of the morality in the bible in which we are to follow is just common sense. Treating people right, honesty and integrity, helping others out when in need,

I agree with these

being faithful in marriage, understanding to others, being fair and just to others, keeping yourself from profanity and cursing.

{1}You should be faithfull when you have stepped into marriage, but should people stay together when they no longer have the love for each other?

{2}we should try to understand others so why does a non-christian go to hell? Why is one religion wrong and the other one right?

{3}so we should not turn the other cheek when a violent crime as been done to us? eye for an eye?

{4}Profanity and cursing, cursing is just slang what harm does it really cause?

profanity between consenting adults should be their business? Why is {adult}profanity a bad thing?


Gid gave us a freewill. He won't force His will on anyone, neither should we.

Once again then why did Christian's kill those that did not believe the way they did? I understand that today is somewhat different but lets face it there are still those out there that threaten folks with hell if they don't believe.

All of us however, will be accountable unto Him for how we live our lives.

maybe, maybe not, this was a teaching invented by man where is the proof?

We are required to live rigtheously according to what we know to be right.

One mans right may be another mans wrong, so the question is who is living righteously?

Carefull maddog. If you say anything against their religion they will call you a christian basher. Dave is especially suseptable to jumping on the hate wagon when his religios beliefs are threatened. You will be called names and insulted. I can only assume that this is typical christian like behavior as they have been doing it consistantly over the last year.

Certainly doesn't make christianity look attractive.

Where's the love. The kindness, the forgiving, the helping hand, and all the other stuff they SAY they stand for? With the exception of Jerejere all I have seen from the christians on this board is hatred and fear of anything different or non conforming.

Once again then why did Christian's kill those that did not believe the way they did? I understand that today is somewhat different but lets face it there are still those out there that threaten folks with hell if they don't believe.
What point are you trying to make with this? That Christians sin too? I think we all knew that.

all I have seen from the christians on this board is hatred and fear of anything different or non conforming.

Sort of sounds like you, Echo.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
What point are you trying to make with this? That Christians sin too? I think we all knew that.

Most of my friends are Christian, a very good friend of mine and I were talking about beliefs. I listened to him, but when it came to my turn he more or less said well I don't know if we'll be able to be friends anymore. He said he would pray for me etc... Now somewhere it was said to be more understanding, so my question is when does it start? When you talk to another{non-christian} are you really listening and trying to understand or are you thinking "boy does this person need to be prayed for"? Understanding is not just sitting infront of the other it is also trying to see their point of view{which I've learned from some folks here}.

yes I relize Christians feel they sin. Sinning is a personal thing even between Christians, so what is a real sin and how many are there?

Originally posted by Echo2
Where's the love. The kindness, the forgiving, the helping hand, and all the other stuff they SAY they stand for? With the exception of Jerejere all I have seen from the christians on this board is hatred and fear of anything different or non conforming.

It's all out there in the real world. Go out and actually meet a few Christians. We're really not all that scary, and many of us are quite different from the guys you see on TV.

Originally posted by mad dog
a very good friend of mine and I were talking about beliefs. I listened to him, but when it came to my turn he more or less said well I don't know if we'll be able to be friends anymore. He said he would pray for me etc
I was really sorry to read that. I suspect your friend does feel a little bit insecure when confronted by other beliefs. I don't think it's right to end a friendship just because someone disagrees with me. Christains aren't perfect. We make mistakes at pretty much the same rate as everyone else.

so what is a real sin and how many are there?

From a Christian point of view? Anything God says is a sin.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
From a Christian point of view? Anything God says is a sin.

What ur conscious does not accept is sin.

Originally posted by mad dog
religion- a belief in, and worship of ,God or gods; a system of faith and worship.

What you say is spirituality. Religion and spirituality r two different. There are many religions in this world but there is only one ultimate that we call spiritual.:flowers:

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
It's all out there in the real world. Go out and actually meet a few Christians. We're really not all that scary, and many of us are quite different from the guys you see on TV.

I do agree there are MANY good Christians.


I was really sorry to read that. I suspect your friend does feel a little bit insecure when confronted by other beliefs.

This brought another question to mind, If a person believes the way they do then why feel threaten when questioned? Why not share their thoughts and ideas?

I don't think it's right to end a friendship just because someone disagrees with me.

If we did then NO one would have a friend. The other point I would also like to make is that I don't really disagree with anyones religion I just try to understand. I believe religion has to be a personal thing, not a book or what was taught, but more of a feeling.

Christains aren't perfect. We make mistakes at pretty much the same rate as everyone else.

The only mistake that was made is one of anger instead of trying to understand. As soon as I told him that I was not Christian he gave me a bad look and said "I'll have to pray for you because you are WRONG". I told him I didn't believe in the devil or hell and he almost fell over backwards. The one thing he would not do is let me explain my point of view.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
From a Christian point of view? Anything God says is a sin.

I have to ask this Dave, which Christian do I listen to? Who do we know that has been getting answers from God? There are many Christians in this world and they all have their own little version of what is right and what is not.

Originally posted by sadashivan
What you say is spirituality. Religion and spirituality r two different. There are many religions in this world but there is only one ultimate that we call spiritual.:flowers:

I wrote this straight out of a dictionary.

Who do we know that has been getting answers from God?

Well, we believe anyone can get answers from God by reading a Bible. As to why different Christians interpret things in the Bible differently, I don't know. To me it is pretty straightforward. I must point out however that most Christians by-and-large are on the same page. You make it sound like your two arverage Christians have wildly different ideas about Christianity.

Originally posted by mad dog
This brought another question to mind, If a person believes the way they do then why feel threaten when questioned? Why not share their thoughts and ideas?
There are a lot of people out there who say a lot of bad things against Christians. We're called stupid, bigots, hateful, and a variety of other things. Some people don't want to deal with this kind of activity. I don't know what the deal is in your friend's case.

only mistake that was made is one of anger instead of trying to understand. As soon as I told him that I was not Christian he gave me a bad look and said "I'll have to pray for you because you are WRONG". I told him I didn't believe in the devil or hell and he almost fell over backwards. The one thing he would not do is let me explain my point of view.
It sounds to me like he has some personal insecurities. As long as you were having a respectful conversation, I don't see any good reason for him to do this. I know a lot of people who just can't stand the fact that people disagree with them. They just can't deal with it. That's too bad, because I know I've learned a lot from people that I disagree with.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Well, we believe anyone can get answers from God by reading a Bible.

I get answers without a bible would this be wrong? Like I said I believe in a greater force, but I also believe that force is not my baby sitter. Things are what they are because we {humans} have made them that way, or nature needs a change.

As to why different Christians interpret things in the Bible differently, I don't know. To me it is pretty straightforward. I must point out however that most Christians by-and-large are on the same page.

I'm sorry but I can not agree with this. I was on another site awhile back and it was full of Christians. Things went smooth for awhile and then BAM everyone started fighting and saying their interpretation was correct. I will bet you can have 100 Christian read the Bible and they will all come away with something different.

You make it sound like your two arverage Christians have wildly different ideas about Christianity.

Maybe not the two that go to the same church but the two from each side of town will, I've seen it happen way to often.

UnCoolDuck;

one of the reasons some folks get mad at Christians is because of the little box in their house{TV}. They see SOME of these preachers acting like they are perfect and telling everyone how they've sinned and caused harm etc, etc, etc... I personally get a kick out of these guys, they are a form of entertainment kind of like the WWF. You now they are full of bull but it is funny to watch. Another reason is once in awhile you run into these holier-than-thou types. They start right off by telling you that your a heathen and causing evil, your ways are wrong etc.... Bad stories travel faster and farther then good ones.

You are also correct alot of people hate to be disagreed with, especially when they have been taught for so many years, one way of thinking. It would almost be like committing a horrible sin if they were even to question things. I like a peacefull disagreement otherwise how do we ever learn.

Originally posted by mad dog
UnCoolDuck;

one of the reasons some folks get mad at Christians is because of the little box in their house{TV}. They see SOME of these preachers acting like they are perfect and telling everyone how they've sinned and caused harm etc, etc, etc... I personally get a kick out of these guys, they are a form of entertainment kind of like the WWF. You now they are full of bull but it is funny to watch. Another reason is once in awhile you run into these holier-than-thou types. They start right off by telling you that your a heathen and causing evil, your ways are wrong etc.... Bad stories travel faster and farther then good ones.

You are also correct alot of people hate to be disagreed with, especially when they have been taught for so many years, one way of thinking. It would almost be like committing a horrible sin if they were even to question things. I like a peacefull disagreement otherwise how do we ever learn.

You know....there also a lot of Athiests that appear on TV that go to great leaps and bounds to publically make Athiests look like vile monsters.

Maryolyn Manson comes to mind right off the bat.

Originally posted by mad dog
UnCoolDuck;

one of the reasons some folks get mad at Christians is because of the little box in their house{TV}. They see SOME of these preachers acting like they are perfect and telling everyone how they've sinned and caused harm etc, etc, etc... I personally get a kick out of these guys, they are a form of entertainment kind of like the WWF. You now they are full of bull but it is funny to watch. Another reason is once in awhile you run into these holier-than-thou types. They start right off by telling you that your a heathen and causing evil, your ways are wrong etc.... Bad stories travel faster and farther then good ones.

Yep, this is all correct. Some of the TV preachers are charlatans. I can't stand them. Yes, it's interesting to watch their freak show, sometimes, but it angers me that they are doing damage to the cause of Christ. There are some good preachers as well on TV, but, of course, they're not as entertaining, and don't get nearly as much attention.

Religion is superstition.

It is a crutch for people who cannot deal with their own mortality.

But most of all it is a virus of the mind ....a meme.

It is perpetuated primarily because human beings have a hard time dealing with the fact that they will one day cease to exist.

Deep within the psyche of each human being is the knowledge that there are no "gods", that there are no supernatural omnipotent beings watching over us.....yet the vast majority have been brainwashed since childhood to believe thru "faith" [IOW, to keep reassuring themselves over and over that something they know to be impossible is true] that the nonsensical tale of the "Creator" is the truth.

And that cognitive dissonance ---many researchers have concluded--- is the underlying cause of such irrational behavior among fundamentalist believers.

humans have always searched for a meaning in life and they came up with religion. its for the weak minded people who cant get a grip that when you die, you die. nothing can change it. so enjoy your life and dont go live for some higher being. when i ask if zeus is real, catholis would laugh at me. zues is the same tihng as the catholic god. and im sick of them sticking their shit into everything we do (pledge, medicine)

ill let them deal with it

Originally posted by BWalach
its for the weak minded people who cant get a grip that when you die, you die. nothing can change it. so enjoy your life and dont go live for some higher being.
Are the two really mutually exclusive? I know a number of people who believe in God, heaven, etc. who do not do much about it. That is, they do not attend church, don't pray, and don't live in constant fear of a mythical higher power.

One thing I have noted among atheists is that many of us tend to look down rather snootily upon theists. And also, we tend to lump the crazy wacko fundie Christians in with the good, non-annoying Christians. There IS a difference between the two groups. And it's important to distinguish between them.

yea i agree im just saying for the most part christians live live for their god and not just to live it

Originally posted by BorgHunter
And also, we (atheists) tend to lump the crazy wacko fundie Christians in with the good, non-annoying Christians. There IS a difference between the two groups. And it's important to distinguish between them.

The reason that i lump the non-annoying Christians [and i agree with you that there are many religious people in that category] in with the wacko fundies is that the non-annoying Christians tend to simply go along with the wacko fundies......and the fundies are the ones trying with all their might to get their irrational superstitions, taboos and prejudices codified into law so that every American, whether they are religious or not, will be forced to live by their narrow and specific version of what is "right and wrong".

I guess i'll stop lumping them together when the day comes that the non-annoying "live and let live" Christians begin to resist the zealots and the fundamentalists and to oppose the fundies' attempts to get Christianity's taboos, prohibitions and prejudices codified into State and Federal law.

Freethinker;

You shouldn't lump people together just because they have a somewhat same idea. That would set humans back atleast a couple of hundred years.

Originally posted by mad dog
Freethinker;

You shouldn't lump people together just because they have a somewhat same idea.

I'll stop lumping them together when the day comes that they stop ---for all intents and purposes-- working together to pass laws forcing me to conform to their version of morality.

You do not see the atheist community in America petitioning the government to pass laws forcing the religionists to conform to our creed or our version of morality or set of beliefs.....the santimonious Religious Right needs to accord us the same freedom.

Originally posted by Freethinker
I'll stop lumping them together when the day comes that they stop ---for all intents and purposes-- working together to pass laws forcing me to conform to their version of morality.

What laws have they passed that effect your way of life?

You do not see the atheist community in America petitioning the government to pass laws forcing the religionists to conform to our creed or our version of morality or set of beliefs.....the santimonious Religious Right needs to accord us the same freedom.

What laws are being forced on us that come straight from a religion?

I relize Christians would like us all to believe the same way but as of right now I don't know of any law that forces you, or me into their belief? I get mad at those that call me a heathen or throw me into the same room as their made up devil, but that is their opion not a law. I can still think the way I want I do not have to be Christian to function in America.

Originally posted by mad dog
What laws have they passed that effect your way of life?


The fact that you have to swear under oath whilst touching a bible.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
The fact that you have to swear under oath whilst touching a bible.

that is a formality, it started when more people believed in God. The court figured they would not dare lie to God. I still can not see how this would hurt you, infact if you don't believe in their God it really is more of a waste of time for them then you. 2nd what did the person do that got them into the situation of swearing on a bible in the 1st place?

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
The fact that you have to swear under oath whilst touching a bible.
Do they force you to do so in the U.K? They do not here in the U.S. You can choose to take a secular oath if you want.

You probably have to ask specifically for the secular oath and since the majority dont know that option exists you sort of go along with it.

You probably have to ask specifically for the secular oath and since the majority dont know that option exists you sort of go along with it.
That is probably true, but the option exists, and ignorance of it is no excuse. I wouldn't defend somebody who never bothers to find out they have another option if they complain. The whole "But, they didn't tell me!... a hundred times, they only said it once" doesn't work. It may purposely be kept quiet, but I don't care.

I get answers without a bible would this be wrong?
Not neccessarily.

I'm sorry but I can not agree with this. I was on another site awhile back and it was full of Christians. Things went smooth for awhile and then BAM everyone started fighting and saying their interpretation was correct. I will bet you can have 100 Christian read the Bible and they will all come away with something different.
I didn't say that most Christians believed the EXACT same thing. The point I meant to make is that most Christians believe approximately the same thing. If you take two average practicing Christians they will by-and-large agree on most things. Most disagreements come about small details.

Maybe not the two that go to the same church but the two from each side of town will, I've seen it happen way to often.
You have got to be kidding me. You honestly think that if you randomly select two Christians that don't go to the same Church they will have WILDLY DIFFERENT ideas about what Christianity is? That is not true. Yeah, some people dunk and some people sprinkle. Some people pray to Saints, some people don't. Things like this don't make them wildly different.

Blibblob what you are spouting on about??

If they dont know it exists then there is no way for them to have chosen it??

In you world everyone has to know everything about everything else when they make a mistake, youll be there saying "No excuse you should have known how to do it properlly"

Shocking answer from you.

Originally posted by Lokideviluk
Blibblob what you are spouting on about??

If they dont know it exists then there is no way for them to have chosen it??

In you world everyone has to know everything about everything else when they make a mistake, youll be there saying "No excuse you should have known how to do it properlly"

Shocking answer from you.
"But officer...I thought that speed limit was in miles per second! See, I wasn't speeding!" :rolleyes: Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Fair enough then,

I know in my head what im trying to explain but clearly mis represented it, I could try but it would get ripped to pieces along with a bunch of sarcastic insults so i wont bother.

You won this.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I didn't say that most Christians believed the EXACT same thing. The point I meant to make is that most Christians believe approximately the same thing. If you take two average practicing Christians they will by-and-large agree on most things. Most disagreements come about small details.

depends on who brought a person up where they live etc....


You have got to be kidding me. You honestly think that if you randomly select two Christians that don't go to the same Church they will have WILDLY DIFFERENT ideas about what Christianity is?

here is what happened on the other site. The 3.... or one in the same, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. Some say God is the father seperate from Jesus, and the Spirit, some say they are one in the same, to me this is a wild difference. After this argument broke out on the site I thought I would ask some folks and quess what there is alot of difference of opinion. so yes not only do I think this but I have proven it to myself.

That is not true. Yeah, some people dunk and some people sprinkle. Some people pray to Saints, some people don't. Things like this don't make them wildly different.

when you start adding up the dunks and sprinkles you can come up with a wild difference in the end result. 60 min. had a show on last night about Christian rock some feel it is OK, some feel it is horrible and huge sin, others don't care either way. I'm sorry to disagree with you on this but their are wild differences in Christian religion, maybe not everywhere but they are there. If one Christian believes another is committing a sin{or thinks they are a heathen} then wouldn't this be a wild difference. the difference being between going to heaven or hell.

So basically it sounds like to me, that you think ANY difference of opinion is a wild difference. I can't believe that these little things make you think that Christians are not a group unified by the same basic belief set. Who cares if Christians disagree about how to baptize? Who cares how they interpret the Trinity? It really makes no difference in the end. These opinions are not essential to the Christian religion. If two Christians both accept Christ as their Lord and Savior, they will both go to heaven regardless of whether they were dunked or sprinkled, or how they interpret the Trinity, or whether they listent to Christian rock.

Dave;

Are you pulling my leg? :)

If A believe's God and Jesus are the same and B believe's they are seperate then isn't this a problem. They both can say yes I believe in Jesus but which Jesus is correct, infact Jesus would just be a name for 2 different beings. Now if A see's no problem with music but B feels this is a horrible sin, this is a difference that can cause battles{as it has in the past}. When a matter of difference can cause people to get mad and even hate then yes I would say these are very wild differences. When one person tells another they are a heathen, doing the work of the devil, a sinner, etc... I would say this is more then just a little problem{difference}

I consider sin more than a little problem too, MadDog.

I dont think there is anything wrong with a few doctrines of faith....(i.e. believing in trinity, believing in baptism by the holy spirit, eternal salvation, etc, etc.)

However, I think it is crucial that we try our best to live by what the Bible tells.