I guess there's truth to the old saying that goes "The more things change, the more they stay the same. Here, read this:


Soccer Racism Taints Spain's Reputation

By STEPHEN WADE, AP Sports Writer

SEVILLE, Spain - Spaniards used to say they lived in one of Europe's most racially tolerant countries. Soccer has shattered that myth. In Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu stadium — the Yankee Stadium of soccer — Spanish fans bellowed out monkey noises last week each time a black English player touched the ball in a match between England and Spain.


A month earlier, Spanish national coach Luis Aragones was caught by a TV crew using racist language about France's star striker Thierry Henry. He kept his job with little protest at home.


"I was shocked and I am still shocked at what happened," said Sepp Blatter, president of soccer's world governing body, FIFA. "I am sad at this new expression of racism in a stadium that has been a temple of football."


Spain isn't the only European country where racism leaves its stain on soccer:


_ Four days after the abuse in Madrid, black striker Dwight Yorke said he was subjected to racist gestures and noises in Birmingham City's game at Blackburn. Police opened an investigation.


_ French club Paris St. Germain has an area where only white fans are welcome; another section is open to Paris' many Arab and black immigrants.


_ Fans of the Czech team Sparta Prague still shout "Slavia Jude" (Slavia Jew) against local rivals Slavia Prague. The chant dates from the pre-World War II era, when Slavia fans included many Jewish businessmen.


_ Fans of Greek club Panathinaikos are under investigation for racial taunts last month against black players from English club Arsenal.


_ Two black players for the French club Bastia were roughed up and insulted by 30 fans after a match earlier this month.


Baseball broke its color line in 1947 when Jackie Robinson joined the Brooklyn Dodgers. Robinson was taunted for years, and it wasn't until the 1960s that civil rights laws and anti-racism campaigns allowed blacks to move easily into most major pro and college sports.


Countries such as Spain traditionally have sent citizens abroad, and only began to experience widespread immigration in the past two decades. Spaniards often say they entered the 20th century in 1975 — the year dictator Francisco Franco (news - web sites) died.


"It took immigrants coming to this country for us to realize that we can be racist like any other country, like anybody else," said Tomas Calvo Buezas, director of the Center for Studies of Migration and Racism at Complutense University in Madrid.


About 7.5 percent of Spain's 40 million citizens are immigrants. The figure is higher in Madrid, where 13 percent are foreign born, Calvo Buezas said.


"Soccer stirs up raw emotions," said Isabel Torrado, working at Dehesa Santa Maria, a cafe-bar just 100 yards from the Ramon Sanchez-Pizjuan stadium — home of the Sevilla soccer team. Several black men sat outside on benches, with overstuffed athletic bags at their feet.


"We have poor people coming around looking for work, and 70 percent of Spaniards barely have a cent saved in the bank," she said.


After France won the 1998 World Cup and the 2000 European championship with a team dominated by black and North African immigrants, 39 percent in a French survey said there were too many foreign-born players on the team.


Fans at Italian clubs Lazio and Verona have been warned about racist goading.


Known as Europe's most tolerant country, even the Netherlands has seen repeated racial incidents and violence at The Hague (news - web sites)-based club Ado Den Haag. Dutch powers Ajax and Feyenoord also have notorious fans.

Former Yugoslav national coach Ivica Osim said soccer racism in his almost entirely white region stems from a deep-seated "inferiority complex against larger, richer clubs or countries."

"The racism in football is all about national identity," said Stefan Szymanski, economics professor at Tanaka Business School in London. "It's a way of cementing your identity and singling out people who are not like you."

Soccer racism also is a problem in Israel, where 20 percent of the population is Arab.

"Today there is no game where they don't curse Arabs, even if there aren't any on the field," said Rifat Turk, an Arab who played for the Israeli national team in the 1980s. "People yell `Death to the Arabs' like it's going out of style."

Despite anti-racism campaigns by UEFA, the governing body of European soccer, and denunciations of racial abuse by FIFA, the message often goes unheeded.

Spain and much of Europe have laws against racism, but Calvo Buezas said they are not enforced.

"People are not used to the fact that being racist in public is reprehensible," he said. "Here, nobody will touch the coach (Aragones)."

UEFA last week boosted fines for racial incidents by Sevilla and Sparta Prague. Sparta must pay $51,200 and Sevilla $21,300, small amounts in a sport where top players earn millions.

Two days after the England game in Madrid, the Spanish Coalition against Racism in Football set up a telephone hot line to report racist incidents and sent an apology letter to British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites).

The incidents certainly tarnished Madrid's image as it bids to host the 2012 Olympics. The city is competing against Paris, London, New York and Moscow.

FIFA says it could be several months before Spain is punished, with a fine the most likely penalty.

That doesn't satisfy Piara Powar, who heads an anti-racism program for England's Football Association. He wants Spain suspended from all European soccer.

"This is not a cycle of events to be dealt with simply by a fine and a slap on the wrist," Powar said.

"The only way to stop it is to take points away in World Cup qualification," said Eduardo Torrico, assistant sports editor at the Spanish sports daily AS. "Only something stern will make people wake up." <end>

Here's the link: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041127/ap_on_sp_so_ne/soc_soccer_racism


For those of you that remember the 60's, get ready...Here we go again :(

I remember when blacks didn't play basketball.

I saw the Harlem Globe trotters and was amazed how those guys could play. It just didn't make sense that they could do what they did.

old reb

My first real learning experience about racism was in high school. My high school had an AFS student from Ethiopia. The suburb of Milwaukee I grew up in was all white, and he was the only minority student in our high school, but the problem didn't happen in school. He was well liked in high school.
At the time, there were civil rights protests going on in favor of an open housing ordinance that would ban discrimination in housing on the basis of race. The protests resulted in many arrests, and there was considerable racial tension. The judge who was handling the cases from the protests lived in my suburb, and three houses down the street lived the family the AFS student was staying with.
One night, as he was returning home after a high school basketball game, he was stopped by police providing extra security for the judges home. One of the asked him, "Where are you from, boy?"
He responded, "Ethiopia".
The police then beat him senseless, and arrested him. They dropped the charges a few hours later when his host parents arrived at the police station. He returned to Ethiopia the next day, and the police officers were suspended for a few days. The high school paper tried to report on the incident, but the principal censored the paper, and demanded the article be removed because it was critical of the police.
Yes, I remember the 60's.

Started out as just another decade in obscurity, like the '50's. Things picked up for a while - cars started getting more exiciting, there was a Catholic POTUS,-- it all changed as JFK died in Nov '63, then the following Feb when Ed Sullivan brought the British Music invasion to the USA, the middle 60's were back to back riots, LBJ escalated the Viet Nam war, in '68 MLK & RFK were gunned down, mid '69 brought Woodstock, yours truly to Viet Nam, and Trikky Dick became POTUS. Suddenly it was 1970.

Yes, I remember the 60's. I went to all white schools all the way thru high school. Graduated 66'. Raised in South Georgia.
I can remember when every business had 2 water fountains, one marked colored and one marked white. Most places had 3 bathrooms one marked colored, one marked men, one marked women. A walk up and be served store had a side window marked colored, this window was served when all whites at the front windows were served first. I remember the barber shop that I went to had a "shoe shine boy", called shine. He was an elderly black man that shined shoes, swept up the barber shop and did odd jobs. I was about 12 it was 1960. I was there with my step-father who was a brutal sort of fellow. I thought a lot of shine, he was always friendly and talked to me. He offered to shine my shoes and did a good job. He had said something to me that I did not understand and I said "sir", "what did you say?"
I was so imbarrassed at what happened next. My step-father said boy if I ever hear you say sir to that N_____ again I will beat the hell out of you. I remember the old man hanging his head and I felt so sorry for him. Everyone laughed in the barber shop.

I tell these thing so that people will know that these things are real. People endured them. It still happens and is not limited to black and white. It can be national orgin, religion, a physical disability, fat or skinny. People can be cruel to one another. Thank goodness not everyone, but still plenty of people are that way today. Something in the human nature tends to seperate or gather people. I am sure it will always be that way. All each of us can do is set our particular example, one at a time.

Growing up in a tiny dot of a town in western NY state was a very white experience. The 'negros' were only a short drive away into the great city of Buffalo, but that may as well have been another planet. There were no blacks in my school until Sept '66, - my junior year - and then we got a young lady [she a jr] & her brother[a sr]. They endured quite a bit from the local knuckle draggers, but they survived & stayed. My father worked in a steel plant, and had a slang name for each & every ethnic group he dealt with daily. Micks, spics, wops, polaks, & jigaboos were the very words he used, among others. It wasn't until after I'd joined the military that I began to see, first hand, racism & prejudice in action.

You would've thought that after the holocaust, that people would've finally learned the consequences of racism and hatred.

Those who engage in the shenanigans that dukirk posted should think, is this the legacy I really want for mankind?

Ugh, that post was kinda corny, but I hope you guys can figure its true intent.

In Jr high school, we were completely segerated and knew no blacks personaly but we knew we were superior physically and mentally. Billy the news paper boy who was a good scrapper, was delivering papers when a black youth stole one of his papers. Billy chased him down and proceded to kick his butt but it was Billy that came back with a black eye.

We marveled at what happened. Billy was on the side of good and of superior race while the black was on the side of evil and of an inferior race but yet he had won the fight. Billy says don't fight a n---r when he is scared because he will whip u @ss.

old reb

Originally posted by Dunkirk101
Countries such as Spain traditionally have sent citizens abroad, and only began to experience widespread immigration in the past two decades. Spaniards often say they entered the 20th century in 1975 — the year dictator Francisco Franco (news - web sites) died.


"People are not used to the fact that being racist in public is reprehensible," he said. "Here, nobody will touch the coach (Aragones)."


I am Spaniard...sadly after what happened, I guess the explanation of the incident lies on the two above statements.

In Spain, we have no "history"of racism. The first time, I saw a black person (I guess an inmigrant or a black American soldier from the military base in Madrid), I was 14 yo and the first Asian when I was 17 yo (the first Asian family who settled down at my home town). And the first Indian Southamerican when I was 18. In my case, it actually means that I don't "see"race differences, I don't care which race is one person, that subject was not even there when I grew up because we were all (really all) from the same "race" (mix of Southern and Nothern Europeans) and when I saw for the first time a person of a different race for me was just exotic but I didn't have any preconception about their actual capabilities.
However for others it meant that their idea of the old Spain was changing and they were/are not very happy about it. It is not much about the race than about the culture, in fact. There, we (I might include myself) have a problem. We have been so uniform, culturally speaking, that it is difficult for us to accept the inmigrants traditions (specially non Westerners)

About the soccer game, I think they did it to piss the Brits off and sadly they succeed on it. Sometimes soccer fans can be pretty brutal. I remenber once when Figo (a former Barcelona player) played in Barcelona for the Real Madrid. The Barcelona fans hitted him with a pig head :eek: and nobody was really punished (only a fine to the club)...

Talking about races, for my social security number I was asked which ethnic group I was. A dilemma. I've always thought I was white but after looking at the dictionary it seems I am Hispanic (from Spanish, Portuguesse or Latinamerican origin who speaks Spanish or Portuguesse). I am affraid some pure Indian-Southamericans might feel offended (because in fact I am white). I still have no idea which ethnicity I am (before I had no problem because in Europe we don't talk about it and it is not mentioned in any official paper).