Brother strangles sister in 'honor killing'
AFP
Published November 17, 2004

AMMAN -- A Jordanian man has turned himself in to police after admitting he strangled to death his 27-year-old sister for reasons of "family honor," the Jordan Times reported on Wednesday.
The victim had gone missing from the family home in Ramtha, northern Jordan, on November 6 and was found a week later by police in the company of a man in the southern port city of Aqaba, officials told the English-language paper.
She was returned to her family on Saturday and one of her brothers strangled her to death using "a piece of cloth... to cleanse the family's honor," before turning himself in, the paper said.
Last week a Jordanian man shot dead his 17-year-old married daughter after being told that she was allegedly involved in an "immoral relationship" out of wedlock, the newspaper said.
At least 19 women have been killed in so-called "honor crimes" in the conservative Muslim kingdom since the start of 2004, according to a Jordan Times count.

http://198.65.148.235/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20041117-080348-3693r

Reb,

To me it's one of those things, Muslims do claim to be more moral, but it's morality at the point of a gun (or the strangling cloth in this instance) not the morality of the heart, where true morality lies.

Where's that guy who has defended Muslims? I wonder what he has to say about that.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Reb,

To me it's one of those things, Muslims do claim to be more moral, but it's morality at the point of a gun (or the strangling cloth in this instance) not the morality of the heart, where true morality lies.

Where's that guy who has defended Muslims? I wonder what he has to say about that.

I saw this article and wanted to comment on it but could not come up with anything. I like your comment. Excellent.

The guy who defends Isalm, Maybe Astropole2 from France.

Ok - I'll try to do my "job" once more ! :)

What could I say ? This is of course revolting.

But this has not much do do with Islam, it's rather one of these stupid macho traditions of many countries with poor education and "traditional" lifestyle. This kind of behaviour could have happened in some "christian" areas of Europe 100 years ago.

My point is absolutely not to defend Islam or muslims in every occasion - as an atheist I consider this religion is as wrong as the others, and as a human-rights activist I am perfectly aware of the many human rights issues in some arab countries.

I just would like to say that these kind of tragedies, although very preoccupying, are by far not the only face of Islam, and that any generalization is dangerous (as in many issues).

What about :p the girl who defends Islam?

astrapol2 is right, this has nothing to do with Islam. It's just one of those macho arab men things.
It's actually a sin to kill someone for your own reasons even if you did have the right. Unless a proper judge says that the person is to be killed, then there's no reason to do otherwise.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Ok - I'll try to do my "job" once more ! :)

What could I say ? This is of course revolting.

But this has not much do do with Islam, it's rather one of these stupid macho traditions of many countries with poor education and "traditional" lifestyle. This kind of behaviour could have happened in some "christian" areas of Europe 100 years ago.

It could have happened? It could have happened on Mars.


I just would like to say that these kind of tragedies, although very preoccupying, are by far not the only face of Islam, and that any generalization is dangerous (as in many issues).

Not the only face if Islam? Hmmm can Muslims accept part of Islam and skip over part of it?

I think it would be better to be a Muslim man than woman.

Iran is an Islamic government so this next article would be the work of the Islamic government.





Tehran, Oct. 30 - Zhila Izadyar, the 13-year-old schoolgirl from the Iranian town of Marivan (north-western Iran) who is sentenced to be stoned to death is reported to be in poor health after she was lashed 55 times in prison.

Zamani has managed to visit Zhila although under close supervision of the Iranian regime’s agents. Zamani stated that Zhila said, “I am scared; I want to go home; I want to be able to go back to school like other kids”.

Lot of names starting with z. I never knew anyone whose name started with Z.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=634

Originally posted by Innocent Sweety
What about :p the girl who defends Islam?

astrapol2 is right, this has nothing to do with Islam. It's just one of those macho arab men things.
It's actually a sin to kill someone for your own reasons even if you did have the right. Unless a proper judge says that the person is to be killed, then there's no reason to do otherwise.

Sweety says, "unless a judge says that the person is to be killed"
My post before this one links to a case where a judge orders a girls death because she is accused of having sex with her brother.

Sweety
I see the girl who defends Islam as a knowledgable person who is honest and up right. I am offended online by Muslims who lie. Like the ones who say they are the religion of peace and that it is against the Koran to kill innocent women and children. But, the same guy says it is ok to kill Jewish women and children because they are not innocent because they aid and or bring comfort to IDF soldiers.
I have never had occasion to read lies or propaganda from sweety. She tells it like it is, but she is learning from Astrapol.

old reb

Omigod EWW! What a perv!!!

Maybe the judge's sentence was right then, I'm not sure about the shari'a law regarding this. Personally, I think they need to be taken to a center to have their brains screwed back on.

Originally posted by old-reb
Sweety says, "unless a judge says that the person is to be killed"
My post before this one links to a case where a judge orders a girls death because she is accused of having sex with her brother.

Sweety
I see the girl who defends Islam as a knowledgable person who is honest and up right. I am offended online by Muslims who lie. Like the ones who say they are the religion of peace and that it is against the Koran to kill innocent women and children. But, the same guy says it is ok to kill Jewish women and children because they are not innocent because they aid and or bring comfort to IDF soldiers.
I have never had occasion to read lies or propaganda from sweety. She tells it like it is, but she is learning from Astrapol.

old reb

In all my 63 years I have never seen a single male interested in having sex with his sister but I have known dozens of cases where the father had sex with his daughter. The daughter has no choice but to yeild to the father. When a baby results, something must be done.

Personally I suspect the father or uncle or some favored friend but the brother gets the blame. Did the 13 year old girl rape her borther?

Why would the girl rape her brother?!!
Eww, either way it's still disgusting.

Sweety
I see the girl who defends Islam as a knowledgable person who is honest and up right. I am offended online by Muslims who lie. Like the ones who say they are the religion of peace and that it is against the Koran to kill innocent women and children. But, the same guy says it is ok to kill Jewish women and children because they are not innocent because they aid and or bring comfort to IDF soldiers.
I have never had occasion to read lies or propaganda from sweety. She tells it like it is, but she is learning from Astrapol.

Thank you! :D I try..
And astrapol is not the only person I've been learning from, you too have taught me some things. A fair number of other members as well...

Hello sweety,

I hate to bother you with another tale of a girl gone bad but here it is.

Palestinian woman kills daughter to restore family's `honor'

By Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson

Knight Ridder Newspapers

ABU QASH, West Bank - Rofayda Qaoud - raped by her brothers and impregnated - refused to commit suicide, her mother recalls, even after she bought the unwed teenager a razor with which to slit her wrists. So Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud says she did what she believes any good Palestinian parent would: restored her family's "honor" through murder.

Armed with a plastic bag, razor and wooden stick, Qaoud entered her sleeping daughter's room last Jan. 27. "Tonight you die, Rofayda," she told the girl, before wrapping the bag tightly around her head. Next, Qaoud sliced Rofayda's wrists, ignoring her muffled pleas of "No, mother, no!" After her daughter went limp, Qaoud struck her in the head with the stick.

Killing her sixth-born child took 20 minutes, Qaoud tells a visitor through a stream of tears and cigarettes that she smokes in rapid succession. "She killed me before I killed her," says the 43-year-old mother of nine. "I had to protect my children. This is the only way I could protect my family's honor."

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/7255549.htm

honor killings are a very serious problem worldwide. they really don't have anything to do with islam, the koran says nothing about them. they are used by males to explit women and gain more power for themselves. it's not a somethin is brought up much, but its very true that women have still not achieved equality to men, most especially in parts of the world still lviing in traiditonal societies.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
honor killings are a very serious problem worldwide. they really don't have anything to do with islam, the koran says nothing about them. they are used by males to explit women and gain more power for themselves. it's not a somethin is brought up much, but its very true that women have still not achieved equality to men, most especially in parts of the world still lviing in traiditonal societies. Did you even read the post right before yours? It was a mother murdering her daughter. How is that males "exploiting" women to gain more power for themselves?

Originally posted by WhammyBar
honor killings are a very serious problem worldwide. they really don't have anything to do with islam, the koran says nothing about them..

The answer is that it does have to do with Islam and it doesn't have to do with Islam. A little knowledge about anything can be dangerous and so it is with the Koran. It all depends on how you interpert the koran(quran).

Quote from the article above:
every man who thinks he knows a little bit of the Quran … thinks honor issues are supposed to be resolved by killing," says Shalhoub-Kevorkian, who adds that leading Muslim clerics in Jerusalem and Jordan have denounced such killings.

old reb

Old Reb,

Thank you for the kind words. It does feel good to know that one's work is appreciated.

I got that position on Islamic Morality from a book titled "What's So Great About America" by Dinesh D'Souza. Do yourself a favor, buy the God-Damned book and do some reading. You will be a thousand percent better prepared to rebutt many of the positions professed by Liberals, MultiCulturalists and so on. Very, very worthwhile reading. Read Larry Elder's "The Ten Things You Can't Say in America" while you are about it.

Innocent Sweety,

It was you I was referring to in my original post. I was interested in what you had to say. Dammit.

Old reb
What are you trying to prove anyway with these posts ? What attitude towards muslim people do you think is right ? I would like to understand what you really mean and stand for.

^ ditto

Old reb
1) What are you trying to prove anyway with these posts ?
2) What attitude towards muslim people do you think is right ?
3) I would like to understand what you really mean and stand for.

1) There is 9/11, Van Gogh, Palestine wars, so many things that point to a problem with Islam but not a word against Islam is allowed or a death thread is made and sometimes carried out. In the cyper world there is the banning threat. Every post that indicates some problem with Islam, has Astrapole white washes and removes any trace of Islam.

2) They should be treated as equals individually but their leaders must be closely observed for terrorist tendencys.

3) What I stand for is peace. There has been an Islamic war declared against us and we must keep our eyes open to threats and attacks. That is being handled by the governments of the world who want to protect their citizens. France has taken the extra precaution of playing dihimitude.

1- Banning threat ? Where did you get that ? Have you ever been censored here whan talking about islam ?

2- I agree. And many other leaders too : Chirac, berlusconi, Sharon, Bush, Putin, all could be prosecuted for at least corruption and in many cases war crimes.

3- Nice to see you stand for peace.
I don't underestimate the threat of international terrorism, but calling it " an islamic war against us" is wrong in two ways.
- First, even if tragedies like 9-11 or the madrid bombings are spectacular, most terrorist casualties are muslims. Muslims are the first victims of fundamentalists, either as dead or injured, or as tortured or imprisoned in their own countries. And people like OBL don't want to overthrow western govts - they want power in the Arab world. Westerners are collateral damage.

Second, fundamentalist terrorists are not strong enough to succeed militarily - that's whay they resort to terrorism, and that's why they need us to buy their propaganda. Who advocates the idea of the "muslim world" at war with the "christian world" ? Precisely terrorists. By adopting the same rhetorics and overreacting, by buying the whole "war against terror" propaganda, we just make them a big favor. The only way they can win is by getting us to react militarily, thus gaining a growing support of the arab street. Every time an iraqi kid dies under an american bomb, every time a palestinian house is destroyed by israeli bulldozers, Ben Laden scores.

At least, at home, let's try to keep in mind that muslim does not equal terrorist, not even potential terrorist. Because otherwise that could become a self-fulfilling prediction.