Ok... lets start out with the fact that it is a Seed bearing plant and God said make use of all seed bearing plants.

Originally posted by philosophytara
Ok... lets start out with the fact that it is a Seed bearing plant and God said make use of all seed bearing plants. Im a christian and if God said that, I must be sinning each day I havent been toking up. I have to fix that. :)

And any and every use of a seed bearing plant is good? Give me a break.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
And any and every use of a seed bearing plant is good? Give me a break.

Well yeah! they use Pot for cancer patients, and eye problems. And opium is a plant too that we use in hospitals as well...

Anyway I think the Government makes too much money off of Weed to legalize it anyway... How about we all buy some CIA crack?

Well, if you're asking me for my personal opinion on marijuana use, I think it's no more harmful than drinking a few beers. Certainly not as potent as downing a fifth of SoCo. And the government should mind their own business about what drugs people put into their bodies willingly.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Well, if you're asking me for my personal opinion on marijuana use, I think it's no more harmful than drinking a few beers. Certainly not as potent as downing a fifth of SoCo. And the government should mind their own business about what drugs people put into their bodies willingly.
Yes, indeed. The government has no business telling people what they can do with their bodies. And in fact, legalized marijuana could be a boon for the economy...think of the tax income!

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Yes, indeed. The government has no business telling people what they can do with their bodies. And in fact, legalized marijuana could be a boon for the economy...think of the tax income!

But they do... I mean Drug tests should also be unconstitutional. I mean someone can do Crack and have it out of their system faster then Pot. I mean come on People drink and drive all the time and they kill people, they get angry on alachol and want to kill people... Do you see a Pot head wanting to beat someone else up? NO.... they are like "man I would kick your ass but I'm too stoned to do it.

Originally posted by philosophytara
But they do... I mean Drug tests should also be unconstitutional. I mean someone can do Crack and have it out of their system faster then Pot. I mean come on People drink and drive all the time and they kill people, they get angry on alachol and want to kill people... Do you see a Pot head wanting to beat someone else up? NO.... they are like "man I would kick your ass but I'm too stoned to do it.
I completely agree. I also think that driving under the influence of marijuana should remain an offense, of course...

If you want me and other Americans to fork over our hard earned money so you can have free health care, you can bet we want some say on what you do with your body.

I try to eat right, rarely drink, do not smoke, and I jog three times a week. Why should I subsidize your bad habbits with free health care for you?

Drop the free health care and I'll be for legalizing all kinds of bad behavior.

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
If you want me and other Americans to fork over our hard earned money so you can have free health care, you can bet we want some say on what you do with your body.

I try to eat right, rarely drink, do not smoke, and I jog three times a week. Why should I subsidize your bad habbits with free health care for you?

Drop the free health care and I'll be for legalizing all kinds of bad behavior. Free health care? WTF? Why am i paying for health insurance if I can get free health care?

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
If you want me and other Americans to fork over our hard earned money so you can have free health care, you can bet we want some say on what you do with your body.

I try to eat right, rarely drink, do not smoke, and I jog three times a week. Why should I subsidize your bad habbits with free health care for you?

Drop the free health care and I'll be for legalizing all kinds of bad behavior.
Free health care? Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

Free health care? Well my son gets it... but I have yet to see it and I am considered "poverty level" It's not about the health care and yes I agree with Borg... people should get the same treatment if they are driving stoned, as they would driving drunk, but on a whole Stoners drive slower then other people and are hesitant to change lanes.

For far to many years this country has created criminals out of tax paying, gainfully employed, voting & otherwise contributing members of society through the continued criminalization of marijuana. By comparison, almost daily, one can pick up their daily newspaper and learn about some miscreant who has received yet another DUI/DWI and received probation. Were alcohol discovered today, it would be classified as a narcotic in the same vein as heroin or cocaine. We have centuries of documentation referencing what happens to individuals and societies when alcohol is abused, yet, it remains a legal recreational substance. Get yourself a bottle of Jack, drink your fill, go out driving & run over a Suburban full of nuns, you'll probably get probation. Get caught with a few ounces of merrywanna, & find yourself learning that ever popular tune: "My cellmate thinks I'm sexy".

It's just plain wrong.

now what do you potheads think about other harder drugs? Cocaine, heroin - legalize? Sell 'em at the corner drug store alongside the cigarretes?

"My cellmate thinks I'm sexy", that was FUNNY!

Anyway, I'm surprised no one here saw that "Penn & Teller Bullshit!" show they had on marijuana.

There was this guy, and he is one of 11 people who are on a government program that allows for the experimental use of medical marijuana. He gets marijuana from the Government for free. The Federal Weed. The guy Penn and Teller featured had a bone disease and he smokes marijuana to keep him alive. This guy doesn't take just one or two joints a day. This guy was smoking enough dope to make the Grateful Dead weep with envy! Yet, he worked in the investment field (very successfully) drove a car and got to smoke dope in front of the Capital Building. Must be nice to be on the Federal Weed.

Anyway, the point is that marijuana simply isn't toxic enough to deserve the repuation that weed is the short path to a ruined life. Plus, it does seem to help those who undergo chemo therapy, and other diseases. Marijuana should be legalized.

Take my advice, watch that particular episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit! In fact, catch every episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit! It can be eye opening.

Yeah, socialized medicine is free health care for people who use it more, i.e. smokers, overeaters, drug users, people who are more sexually active and get disease, etc.

In other words, I pay money so your health care is cheaper. You're getting free health care to the extent you require more surgeries, drugs, etc.

I'm forced to subsidize your lifestyle. So yeah, I want a say in what you do with your body.

"now what do you potheads think about other harder drugs? Cocaine, heroin - legalize? Sell 'em at the corner drug store alongside the cigarretes?"

Only in your neighborhood.

Cocaine & heroin are highly addictive narcotics ... not recreational intoxicants, as is alcohol. Placing marijuana in the same category is wrong, plain & simple.

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
I'm forced to subsidize your lifestyle. So yeah, I want a say in what you do with your body.

Great - let's start off by putting a GPS beacon in your car so I can be sure that you drive exactly the speed limit and don't partake in any risky driving. Oh yeah, and you'll need to go see a dietician so that your food intake is strictly monitored.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
now what do you potheads think about other harder drugs? Cocaine, heroin - legalize? Sell 'em at the corner drug store alongside the cigarretes?

Errr.... just because I advocate the legalization of Pot does not mean I am a pot head. And by the way I think Pot should be availabe for purchase in Bars just like Alachol. Cocain, and heroin is used widely in the medical field, and for good reason they are not legal... they are extreamly addictive... Pot on the other hand is not addicting.

It's not something that children should be smoking - it could have quite serious impacts on their future. Making it legal will increase the amount of child pot smokers.

So, I am not for all out legalization - but certainly decriminalizing it. Our jails should not be filled with pot smokers.

There was a time in my life when I smoked pot every day for years & held down a very successful career - did me no harm, in fact it certainly did me a lot of good in terms of my view of life. Maybe not the same for everybody - but certainly it's no heroin or crack.

haven't smoked any for several years - got bored with it. If only I could stop smoking ciggarettes so easy !

Originally posted by DaveTooner
now what do you potheads think about other harder drugs? Cocaine, heroin - legalize? Sell 'em at the corner drug store alongside the cigarretes?

Definitely...we should sell them all to school children. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
Yeah, socialized medicine is free health care for people who use it more, i.e. smokers, overeaters, drug users, people who are more sexually active and get disease, etc.

In other words, I pay money so your health care is cheaper. You're getting free health care to the extent you require more surgeries, drugs, etc.

I'm forced to subsidize your lifestyle. So yeah, I want a say in what you do with your body. Oh sorry. I guess I was under the mistaken impression that only one man in the history of the world was created perfect. You seem to believe you're the second.

Originally posted by DrewM
It's not something that children should be smoking - it could have quite serious impacts on their future. Making it legal will increase the amount of child pot smokers.

So, I am not for all out legalization - but certainly decriminalizing it. Our jails should not be filled with pot smokers.

There was a time in my life when I smoked pot every day for years & held down a very successful career - did me no harm, in fact it certainly did me a lot of good in terms of my view of life. Maybe not the same for everybody - but certainly it's no heroin or crack.

haven't smoked any for several years - got bored with it. If only I could stop smoking ciggarettes so easy !
Not to mention your unfortunate addiction to burning $100-bills...

Originally posted by es347fan
"now what do you potheads think about other harder drugs? Cocaine, heroin - legalize? Sell 'em at the corner drug store alongside the cigarretes?"

Only in your neighborhood.


:lolhit:

Oh my. I just got cold chills. I realized im kinda liberal minded on this issue when two of the people who agree with me are vile and borg. :D

" ... I'm forced to subsidize your lifestyle ... "

That's right, you are. Ain't life great??? You certainly have my appreciation. In fact, each & every U.S. taxpayer contributes to my lifestyle, as I draw a nice fat military pension after spending over 20 years on active duty helping to protect your chosen lifestyle. Keep paying your taxes, bubba.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Oh my. I just got cold chills. I realized im kinda liberal minded on this issue when two of the people who agree with me are vile and borg. :D

::hands HaVok a joint:: Shut-up and light that...:D

Originally posted by es347fan
" ... I'm forced to subsidize your lifestyle ... "

That's right, you are. Ain't life great??? You certainly have my appreciation. In fact, each & every U.S. taxpayer contributes to my lifestyle, as I draw a nice fat military pension after spending over 20 years on active duty helping to protect your chosen lifestyle. Keep paying your taxes, bubba. I gladly support your lifestyle ES and hope you live many more years at taxpayers expense. Thank you for your service.

Cocaine & heroin are highly addictive narcotics ... not recreational intoxicants, as is alcohol. Placing marijuana in the same category is wrong, plain & simple.

I didn't put it in the same category, in fact I clearly made the distiction. But you potheads keep saying the government has no right to tell us what we can't put into our bodies. Statements like this seem (to me) to insinuate that the government wouldn't have the right to tell you you couldn't put heroin into your body.

Marijuanna will never be legalized in the way you dope smokers want. Not if it is put to a vote by the people.

By the way - ever wonder why they call it "dope" and not "smart?"

Originally posted by Vilepagan
::hands HaVok a joint:: Shut-up and light that...:D LMAO.....i get confused....is it puff, puff, puff? Hmmm...i may have to work on that.

Originally posted by es347fan
" ... I'm forced to subsidize your lifestyle ... "

That's right, you are. Ain't life great??? You certainly have my appreciation. In fact, each & every U.S. taxpayer contributes to my lifestyle, as I draw a nice fat military pension after spending over 20 years on active duty helping to protect your chosen lifestyle. Keep paying your taxes, bubba.

::applauds::

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I didn't put it in the same category, in fact I clearly made the distiction. But you potheads keep saying the government has no right to tell us what we can't put into our bodies. Statements like this seem (to me) to insinuate that the government wouldn't have the right to tell you you couldn't put heroin into your body.

Marijuanna will never be legalized in the way you dope smokers want. Not if it is put to a vote by the people.

By the way - ever wonder why they call it "dope" and not "smart?" Have you ever tried marijuana Dave? Felt its effects?

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Marijuanna will never be legalized in the way you dope smokers want. Not if it is put to a vote by the people.

You just hang around the wrong people.

By the way - ever wonder why they call it "dope" and not "smart?"

If they called it "smart", no one would want to smoke it.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Have you ever tried marijuana Dave? Felt its effects?

Oh lord, I knew this one was coming. I've debated this with enough potheads in my life to know this one would pop up pretty soon. Hell no I haven't smoked pot and I never will either. Let me guess: don't knock it until you try it? My opinion doesn't matter because I've never been high? Give me a break. People are flat out DOPES while they are high on pot. I don't have to smoke it to know this.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I didn't put it in the same category, in fact I clearly made the distiction. But you potheads keep saying the government has no right to tell us what we can't put into our bodies. Statements like this seem (to me) to insinuate that the government wouldn't have the right to tell you you couldn't put heroin into your body.

Marijuanna will never be legalized in the way you dope smokers want. Not if it is put to a vote by the people.

By the way - ever wonder why they call it "dope" and not "smart?"
Dave, I have never even smoked so much as a cigarette, much less marijuana. I don't plan on smoking anything, either, as putting smoke into one's lungs seems like a bad idea period. However, it's not my place, nor is it the government's, to say that you can't smoke marijuana. Marijuana as a recreational substance is comparable to alcohol, and I don't see why it's illegal.

You just hang around the wrong people.

No. If you think there is popular support for legalizing marijuanna for recreational purposes, you are mistaken. By the way, I have plenty of friends who are dopey pot smokers.

Marijuana as a recreational substance is comparable to alcohol

Bingo. We already have enough intoxicants on the market.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Bingo. We already have enough intoxicants on the market.
Well then, let's outlaw any food item other than bread, as we already have enough food on the market, and people are getting too fat!

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Oh lord, I knew this one was coming. I've debated this with enough potheads in my life to know this one would pop up pretty soon. Hell no I haven't smoked pot and I never will either. Let me guess: don't knock it until you try it? My opinion doesn't matter because I've never been high? Give me a break. People are flat out DOPES while they are high on pot. I don't have to smoke it to know this. I was just wondering, dumbass. It's been years since i've smoked weed. But at least I know what the fuck im debating about. Not living in some sort of anal retentive fear of the unknown.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
But you potheads keep saying the government has no right to tell us what we can't put into our bodies.

Marijuanna will never be legalized in the way you dope smokers want. Not if it is put to a vote by the people.

By the way - ever wonder why they call it "dope" and not "smart?"


Grrrr.... Why do you keep refeering..*refering to us as Pot heads! You sound like a drill sargeant teaching Dare. LMAO ::waits for someone to bring up the fact that our body is God's holy temple (blah, blah).

I was just wondering, dumbass. It's been years since i've smoked weed. But at least I know what the fuck im debating about. Not living in some sort of anal retentive fear of the unknown.

I knew it. Only potheads and former potheads can have a valid opinion.

Well then, let's outlaw any food item other than bread, as we already have enough food on the market, and people are getting too fat!

You're comparing useless intoxicants to fatty foods?

Originally posted by DaveTooner
You're comparing useless intoxicants to fatty foods?
You're comparing a recreational drug to a highly addictive narcotic...

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Well then, let's outlaw any food item other than bread, as we already have enough food on the market, and people are getting too fat!


Yeah! You are correct people are getting too fat lets subsidize their lifestyle even more. LOL how about no more salt... that is bad for you.... ::is remembering demolition man:: Cursing was outlawed too, they could give us tickets for having foul language.

that could probably help alliviate the national debt.... LMAO.

You're comparing a recreational drug to a highly addictive narcotic...

No, Borg, I clearly distinguished the two. I brought those drugs up because a few of you pro-pot people said the government shouldn't tell us what to put in our bodies and I just wanted to know if that applied to hard drugs too.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I brought those drugs up because a few of you pro-pot people said the government shouldn't tell us what to put in our bodies and I just wanted to know if that applied to hard drugs too.

I believe that it should apply to anything a person wants to do with their bodies. I mean I feel with the exception of pregnant women, I believe that they shouldn't be allowed to put drugs into their bodies that would adversly effect her baby. It's about Freedom and choice, if someone wants to do something with their own body it shouldn't be anyone else's business.

This is my body... I will do with it as I please.

So you don't think that hard drug addicts are a drain on society?

Originally posted by DaveTooner
So you don't think that hard drug addicts are a drain on society?

I never said that but I am curious how you would explain that to me. Aren't all criminals a drain on society?

Originally posted by philosophytara
I never said that but I am curious how you would explain that to me. Aren't all criminals a drain on society?

Yes, but if you made all drugs legal, these people would no longer be criminals... yet the effect on society would be similar if not exactly the same. Drug addictions lead to serious health problems, they cause you to not be able to function productivly in society. When you can't funtion productivly in society, you don't make money. A hard drug addict without money turns to crime to feed his addiction. I would be willing to bet you that most burglaries in the United States are drug related. Now some will say "if drugs were legal, they would be cheaper and that would eliminate the crime problem." I'm not buying it. Useless drug addicts eventually will not be able to afford even cheap drugs.

Now, before the weed lovers attack me, I am not talking about pot here. Okay? I'm really not that concerned about pot (utterly stupid though it may be) and I would be okay with decriminalization.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
By the way - ever wonder why they call it "dope" and not "smart?"

Dave given that your windows are very dirty and in need of a real clean - you should skip pot and move straight to LSD for the best therapetic benefit.

Originally posted by DaveTooner


Now, before the weed lovers attack me, I am not talking about pot here. Okay? I'm really not that concerned about pot (utterly stupid though it may be) and I would be okay with decriminalization.

Pot is already pretty much decrimilized, I mean my brother got pulled over on his "bike" don't laugh... he was 15. And the cops searched him and found a pipe and some pot. They took the pot, and made him break his pipe and they went there separate ways. My sister smoked Pot throughout her whole pregnancy and tested positive for pot when her baby did not. She had to see a social worker, and they let her go home with her baby.


As for Hard Drug Addicts being a drain on the economy... WEll hell so is WAR, and I believe a hard drug adddicts estimated life span would probably be about as long as the soldiers in Iraq.

now what do you potheads think about other harder drugs? Cocaine, heroin - legalize? Sell 'em at the corner drug store alongside the cigarretes?

Whats up with you calling everyone a "pothead" for having the opinion that pot should be at least as legal as some other legal drugs? I'm 33 years old and I've never smoked pot in my life and never plan to, but I've known people who did and they also drank and while the pot obviously had some negative effects on their lives, their lives were much more harmed when they were drunk, not to mention those of us who had to live with their drunk ass. This is not a defense of marijuana, but just to point out the hypocrasy of one drug being illegal when a worse one is legal.

I am in favor of at least decriminalizing pot, not because pot is good, but because the war against it does not work. I am not in favor of alcohol being legal, or "harder drugs" for that matter, because of the harm it does to others, but I know making it illegal does not work. So, as for your claim that we want the government to allow everyone to do what they want to their bodies, that only applies if that activity is not harming others. If pot, alcohol, cocaine, etc, only harmed the person taking it then I'd say legalize them all, but they all have some level of harm to society.

There is a big difference between pyschedelic drugs and addictive drugs

Drugs like
Pot, mushrooms, LSD, MDMA- are all non addictive and can be enlightening - changing one's perspective on life. Of course anything can be abused.

Drugs like
Heroin, nicotine, caffeine, cocaine, meth amphetamine and to an extent alcohol are all addictive, provide euphoria but not much enlightenment. There's not much benefit to these drugs.

Any damage to society is caused by the black market tied to criminal activities.

Pot, mushrooms, LSD, MDMA- ... can be enlightening -

:rolleyes: Oh yeah, people are so much smarter when they are high on dope.

Any damage to society is caused by the black market tied to criminal activities.

Sorry, but the effects that drugs like heroin have on people are also problematic for society.

I think the best solution would be to legalize pot, and decriminalize other drugs. Tax the hell out of marijuana and use that money, and the money you save by decriminalizing the other drugs, and use it to fund treatment programs to treat the addicts of the more dangerous drugs.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I think the best solution would be to legalize pot, and decriminalize other drugs. Tax the hell out of marijuana and use that money, and the money you save by decriminalizing the other drugs, and use it to fund treatment programs to treat the addicts of the more dangerous drugs. Sounds like a good plan to me. But it makes too much sense for any politicians to actually understand it that way.:(

Originally posted by DaveTooner
:rolleyes: Oh yeah, people are so much smarter when they are high on dope.

Dave, you are talking about something you know nothing about. That statement shows that you are not even close to understanding what was said.

Some MDMA might help you get beyond being so uptight. They used to use it in therapy sessions in the 70's

Once again, my point of view is marginalized because I've never been "enlightened" by pot. How predictable. :rolleyes:

Would you guys think our government could get more accomplished and make better decisions if our congressmen were high on pot during their meetings? I mean it would make them more enlightened and all, right?

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Would you guys think our government could get more accomplished and make better decisions if our congressmen were high on pot during their meetings? I mean it would make them more enlightened and all, right?

No of course not.

You miss the point Dave, because you have no frame of reference (ie have no clue what you are talking about). Any benefit is not while you are smoking pot et al and it's not the kind of benefit that would help you make better decisions as a congressman.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Would you guys think our government could get more accomplished and make better decisions if our congressmen were high on pot during their meetings? I mean it would make them more enlightened and all, right?

I don't know why this is making me laugh so much. (it must be the drugs or else I would want to kick your ass for being so ignorant)

Just because a "drug" is legalized does not mean that someone does not have the personal responsibility to control their intake and to live within their means. Nicotine is a drug, liquor is a drug, Caffeine is a drug. With cigarettes and liquor we have age restrictions, but there is also the moral obligation to oneself to control and maintain their addiction, or intake of said substances.


Do you see Congressmen going to work Drunk... : thinks for a second: Well possibly there may have been cases, but I am sure that the same consideration would be taken with Pot, as we do with Liquor restrictions.

D.A.R.E. Dealers Against Rehab Efforts is a sister organization to D.A.M.M., which is of course, Drunks Against Mad Mothers.

When you look at the numbers, the multitude of problems brought about through the abuse of alcohol is much more of a drain on society.

I don't know why this is making me laugh so much. (it must be the drugs or else I would want to kick your ass for being so ignorant)


I was being sarcastic.

Any benefit is not while you are smoking pot et al and it's not the kind of benefit that would help you make better decisions as a congressman.

So enlightenment doesn't help you make better decisions?

When you look at the numbers, the multitude of problems brought about through the abuse of alcohol is much more of a drain on society.

Yeah, because it's legal and is an equally stupid substance to indulge in.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Yeah, because it's legal and is an equally stupid substance to indulge in.

We tried eliminating the alcohol "problem" through prohibition. The effect was to drive the production, sale, and distribution of alcohol into the hands of organized crime. Sound familiar?

We discovered after a few short years that this policy created more problems for society than it solved, so we decided to legalize it again, and control it's use through regulation, taxation, and education. Can you tell me why this approach won't also work well with drugs?

Taking a legal drug and making it illegal, then legal again is not the same thing as taking an illegal drug and making it legal.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Taking a legal drug and making it illegal, then legal again is not the same thing as taking an illegal drug and making it legal.

You state the obvious. And the irrelevant.

Exactly how is it irrelevant?

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol...why do you think it will work, or has worked to control drug use?

Like I said, they are different situations. With ending prohibition you were restoring legalization. With heroin, cocaine, and the like you are not restoring legalization. Prohibition of alcohol was a completely different situation than our current one with drugs because we aren't taking something away that people once had.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Like I said, they are different situations. With ending prohibition you were restoring legalization. With heroin, cocaine, and the like you are not restoring legalization. Prohibition of alcohol was a completely different situation than our current one with drugs because we aren't taking something away that people once had.

So the reason you think prohibition will work with drugs is because they were always illegal?

First of all, they weren't always illegal. Marijuana, cocaine, and opium were once perfectly legal in this country.

Secondly, there is absolutely no evidence that prohibition has worked to curb "illegal" drug use in this country, and this failing policy costs hundreds of millions of dollars every year to implement.

First of all, they weren't always illegal. Marijuana, cocaine, and opium were once perfectly legal in this country.

I was wondering how long it would take for this to come up, as I've debated this topic many times. It is still not the same as alcohol because these drugs were never widely used for recreational purposes like alcohol was.

Secondly, there is absolutely no evidence that prohibition has worked to curb "illegal" drug use in this country, and this failing policy costs hundreds of millions of dollars every year to implement.

Let me get this straight. You're telling me that making a drug legal - eliminating any legal ramifications of using it such as fines or jail time, taking away some of it's social stigma, and making it more affordable - is not going to cause an increase in use? I'm not buying that.

Originally posted by philosophytara
But they do... I mean Drug tests should also be unconstitutional. I mean someone can do Crack and have it out of their system faster then Pot. I mean come on People drink and drive all the time and they kill people, they get angry on alachol and want to kill people... Do you see a Pot head wanting to beat someone else up? NO.... they are like "man I would kick your ass but I'm too stoned to do it. lmao......rotflmao.....you are soooo right man, i remember my get high days, all i wanted to do was eat and laugh.....and...........what the hell was i talking about ?...lol.......remember those days ?....lmao

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Let me get this straight. You're telling me that making a drug legal - eliminating any legal ramifications of using it such as fines or jail time, taking away some of it's social stigma, and making it more affordable - is not going to cause an increase in use? I'm not buying that.

Dave, if marijuana was legalized would you smoke it? Your argument doesn't hold water.

When alcohol was legalized, people who didn't drink did not run out and start drinking.

People who don't smoke mj do so because they don't want to smoke it, not because it's illegal or frowned upon by society or expensive. Marijuana is so easy to find, and many people only smoke it in the privacy of their own home so they don't have to worry about so called "social stigma". In fact mj is easier to get than liquer here in Oregon. I can go to my grocery store and find someone to sell me mj. But I have to go to a specialized government run store to get hard liquer. In addition mj isn't taxed, liquer is. That in itself is an inducement for some people to use it rather than liquer. The less money the government gets the better.

I do agree with Dave that by making drugs legal - their use will increase significantly.

Once something is legal and companies start making profits - they start sponsoring, advertising etc etc - all these things lead to an increased use.

Drugs are illegal for good reason, just like driving at 100 mph on the highway is illegal. But unlike speeding on the highway - a drug bust can lead to severe and unjust sentancing.

In Alabama for instance, one can get 99 years in jail for being busted with Pot.

Dave, if marijuana was legalized would you smoke it? Your argument doesn't hold water.

No. Since when do I represent all non-drug users.

a drug bust can lead to severe and unjust sentancing.

Sometimes, yes, but not always. I would throw bigtime hard drug dealers behind bars for a long time.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I was wondering how long it would take for this to come up, as I've debated this topic many times. It is still not the same as alcohol because these drugs were never widely used for recreational purposes like alcohol was.

So wide use should be the criteria for making a substance legal? Marijuana is very widely used.

Let me get this straight. You're telling me that making a drug legal - eliminating any legal ramifications of using it such as fines or jail time, taking away some of it's social stigma, and making it more affordable - is not going to cause an increase in use? I'm not buying that.

I didn't say that. You have a habit of dodging points by pretending someone made a point that they did not.

My post:

There is absolutely no evidence that prohibition has worked to curb "illegal" drug use in this country, and this failing policy costs hundreds of millions of dollars every year to implement.

Note I didn't address the issue of increased drug use resulting from legalization. My only point was that the current policy of prohibition does nothing to stop, or even hinder, drug use. Care to dispute that point?

Originally posted by DrewM
I do agree with Dave that by making drugs legal - their use will increase significantly.

I would take issue with the "significantly" part.

Once something is legal and companies start making profits - they start sponsoring, advertising etc etc - all these things lead to an increased use.

There is no reason to assume that legalizing drugs requires that we turn over the business of sale and distribution to private companies. As Echo pointed out, in Oregon you must buy hard liquor at state-run liquor stores. We severely restrict cigarette advertising. There is no reason not to use the same restrictions on the sale and advertising of drugs. In addition, if the government controls the sale of drugs, it can regulate the price, and quality of the available product. Taxes can be levied to offset the costs on society, and to discourage the use of drugs by making it expensive to do so, and the money is taken out of the hands of organized crime.

Dave:

Your debating position obviously will be significantly helped if you have experienced it. Like everyone's been saying, anyone who has tried it (myself included) can tell you have no idea what you are talking about. It is the same way with alcohol. It is the same way with just about everything. Now, since marijuana is not addictive, goes away after couple hours, and you can easily smoke some from your friends, I really wonder why you insist on not trying it.

I would rather my tax dollors went twords rehabilitation for addicts rather than locking them up. But that is moot in this discussion because mj is not addictive.

How much money does the government spend chasing these evil pot smokers? How much police time is wasted chasing and arresting and booking these so called criminals. How much money is spent to take them to court, convict and then house them for their dasterdly smoke inhalation. Are they truly so evil that we must lock them up with the murderers and rapists and then pay to support their life behind bars?

Why not legalize it for adults (over 21) sell it only in liquer stores and tax the hell out of it like they do liquer and cigs.

So wide use should be the criteria for making a substance legal? Marijuana is very widely used.

You misunderstand. I'm saying that WHEN marijuana was made illegal it was not used like alcohol was used when IT was made illegal. I'm saying because of this they are different situations.


I didn't say that. You have a habit of dodging points by pretending someone made a point that they did not.

You said having drugs be illegal was doing nothing to stop anyone from using them. I was just taking the next logical step based on this statement. If laws and law enforcement are having no effect on drug use, then legalizing it would not increase use.

Your debating position obviously will be significantly helped if you have experienced it. Like everyone's been saying, anyone who has tried it (myself included) can tell you have no idea what you are talking about. It is the same way with alcohol. It is the same way with just about everything.

Bull. We sit around on this forum and debate everything under the sun. People who have never been president debate issues that presidents deal with. People who have no military experience debate military matters. Don't give me that.

and you can easily smoke some from your friends, I really wonder why you insist on not trying it.

Because I don't want to be intoxicated. Is that so ridiculous of me? I've seen drunk people and I've seen high people. They act like complete DOPES.

Without trying to sound too "cleche'ish", they should legalize it. No real reason not to, other than the fact that the government makes booku cash subsidizing their bullshit programs to keep it illegal. I wouldn't be so paranoid about getting high if they'd step into reality. I always think I hear shit that doesn't exist, and usually, it's a knock at my front door. Most of the time, no one's there, but when there is, 80% of the time, it's a goddamned cop, asking me to turn down my stereo, TV, etc...(Neurotic upstairs neighbor - long story)

Of those encounters, 75% of the time - I'm totally blazed. Not cool...
I have a veritable arsenal of legal, but unregistered guns, not to mention a copious quantity of ganja that I use medicinally, and two freakish neighbors I wish would meet with an "accident". All good things, for sure...

I've seen drunk people and I've seen high people. They act like complete DOPES.
Well, I guess that really depends on the value of conversation the stoned character can provide you with, Dave. Completely drunk people tend to be far more retarded than those that are just high. If they're morons to boot, then of course they'll resort to being a "dope" - it's only natural. Get high with cool people, for they tend to make conversation incredibly funny, or incredibly stupid, and if they resort to providing you with the latter, then you can make fun of them. It's hilarious, you should try it...

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Once again, my point of view is marginalized because I've never been "enlightened" by pot. How predictable. :rolleyes:

Your view is marginalized because you foolishly try to equate *enlightenment* with increased I.Q.

Two very different things.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Would you guys think our government could get more accomplished and make better decisions if our congressmen were high on pot during their meetings?

Yes.

I think they'd tend to be far more caring about the People's real needs, instead of continually focusing on how they could further enrich the Corporate fat-cats who paid to have them elected.

And I think there'd be a sizeable DECREASE in the urge to wage war.

_____________________________

How can we fail to see the callousness in the spectacle of privileged old men calling for a "little sacrifice" from the comfort of their Conservative perches? Whose sacrifice? Not theirs, that's for certain. The Bushies would rather cut down veterans' benefits (a $21 billion reduction over 10 years) than give up their cherished tax cuts for the wealthy.

Like I said, they are different situations. With ending prohibition you were restoring legalization. With heroin, cocaine, and the like you are not restoring legalization. Prohibition of alcohol was a completely different situation than our current one with drugs because we aren't taking something away that people once had.

But MJ is something that people once had (or currently have) and it being illegal is an attempt to "take something away" from people who had it. The reason the comparison to prohibition IS valid is because both are an attempt to prevent people from doing something and most of the people who want to do it can still do it. Thats not to say that because people are doing it then it should be legal...you have to take into account the amount of harm it does to others.

dna, very true. Marijuana was illegalized at about the same time as alchohol. Only about a decade earlier. The early 20th century was met with countless attempts at prohibition, opium became illegal around that time too. Banning opium counteracted the huge workforce arriving from Asia, and banning marijuana counteracted the slightly smaller workforce arriving from southern America(Those dirty mexicans). Levi Jeans were made out of hemp, it was grown in many homes and used for rope. Some smoked it, though not as many as tobacco, because that drug wouldn't make you feel weird and was much better for smoking with friends. However, speculation guesses that even the founding fathers of the country grew marijuana and possibly smoked it. The entire world had it, it became a standard thing, some smoked it, but nobody really cared. Then the early twentieth century rolls along, and for practically no reason, it's banned.


And I think there'd be a sizeable DECREASE in the urge to wage war.
And even more so if they were on LSD! The very thought may send them into a bad trip and they may start having seizures.

Originally posted by Blibblob
Posted by Freethinker:
And I think there'd be a sizeable DECREASE in the urge to wage war.
And even more so if they were on LSD! The very thought may send them into a bad trip and they may start having seizures.
Pretty funny, Blib. :)

If there are any parents on this forum worried about their kids and drugs ... well your worries are over.

Seems the U.S. Government will be drugging your kids for you -- with or without your permissions.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/1234

Pass the Soma and start the feelies ~ Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)

ROTFLMAO

Dop

When all is said and done, using or not using, legal or illicit, What people do or do not do cannot be regulated. One decides what one will do and does it. Personally I'm going to pop the cork on a good Merlot, toke on my pipe a time or two, and read some other posts.

you call that stress releif poluting your body commiting eventual suicide if i had the choice of hig health care or slow death give me high health care costs smoking pot dosnt solve your issues or take the pain of life away it just makes you numb and kills you slow it dosnt help it dosnt put a brand new car in your drive way or a good women or man in your life you do that and you dont need a plant to do it i personally have seen the effects of this plague you call pot its not pretty its not pretty at all and i only wish you people can eventually see this because if you dont it will kill you all i supose you could say in defense that ciggretes and or alchohol is just as dangerous and deadly you know what your right i say ban it all its all bad it will all kill you adiction is all you get i know alot of people who smoke and drink and smoke pot and i have sufford losss of many people i care about so i say nay on legalizing pot and i say yes to ban it all

A new car in the driveway is as dangerous as your ill thought message, even all those folks who works so hard to care for themselves have to breathe that exhaust you failed to mention or that new dvd player in the car that takes your attention off your driving and results in maiming or death, not to mention another pile of scrap in our overflowing dumps. I'll say it again, it's not what a person does in life but how responsible he is in what he does

Originally posted by CaptainMdarpino
you call that stress releif poluting your body commiting eventual suicide if i had the choice of hig health care or slow death give me high health care costs smoking pot dosnt solve your issues or take the pain of life away it just makes you numb and kills you slow it dosnt help it dosnt put a brand new car in your drive way or a good women or man in your life you do that and you dont need a plant to do it i personally have seen the effects of this plague you call pot its not pretty its not pretty at all and i only wish you people can eventually see this because if you dont it will kill you all i supose you could say in defense that ciggretes and or alchohol is just as dangerous and deadly you know what your right i say ban it all its all bad it will all kill you adiction is all you get i know alot of people who smoke and drink and smoke pot and i have sufford losss of many people i care about so i say nay on legalizing pot and i say yes to ban it all
FUCKING USE SENTENCES!!! Nobody can understand what the hell you meant!

Originally posted by CaptainMdarpino (Rough translation by Borg)
You call that stress relief, polluting your body, committing eventual suicide? If I had the choice of high health care or slow death, give me high health care costs. Smoking pot doesn't solve your issues or take the pain of life away, it just makes you numb and kills you slowly. It doesn't help; it doesn't put a brand-new car in your driveway or a good women or man in your life. YOU do that, and you don't need a plant to do it. I personally have seen the effects of this plague you call pot. They're not pretty. I only wish you people can eventually see this, because if you don't it will kill you all. I suppose you could say in defense that cigarettes and alchohol are just as dangerous and deadly. You know what, you're right, I say ban them all. They're all bad; they will all kill you. Addiction is all you get. I know a lot of people who smoke and drink and I have suffered losses of many people I care about. So I say nay on legalizing pot and I say yes on banning it all.
First of all, you patronizing, holier-than-thou jackass, you don't have to smoke the stuff to want to legalize it. Second of all, have you even HEARD of the concept of individual rights? Let me spell it out for you: IT'S NOT YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS, NOR IS IT THE GOVERNMENT'S, WHAT I DO TO KILL MYSELF. Tobacco is extremely addictive and gives you a myriad of diseases. That's why I do not smoke. However, if you or anyone else wants to kill yourself slowly and painfully, well, more power to you, it's your choice. Fatty foods kill people as well, as do cars. Shall we outlaw those?

And while we're at it, neither alcohol nor marijuana is physically addictive. Mentally, yes, but only for certain people. Alcoholics have no physical addiction and only remain alcoholics due to a mental problem. Same with pothead stoners.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
First of all, you patronizing, holier-than-thou jackass, you don't have to smoke the stuff to want to legalize it. Second of all, have you even HEARD of the concept of individual rights? Let me spell it out for you: IT'S NOT YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS, NOR IS IT THE GOVERNMENT'S, WHAT I DO TO KILL MYSELF. Tobacco is extremely addictive and gives you a myriad of diseases. That's why I do not smoke. However, if you or anyone else wants to kill yourself slowly and painfully, well, more power to you, it's your choice. Fatty foods kill people as well, as do cars. Shall we outlaw those?

And while we're at it, neither alcohol nor marijuana is physically addictive. Mentally, yes, but only for certain people. Alcoholics have no physical addiction and only remain alcoholics due to a mental problem. Same with pothead stoners.

But alcohol AND marajunana are extremely addictive, nonetheless.
Also, when I have to pay your medical bills (through higher insurance premiums or taxes) because of any adverse effect your drug use causes, it damn sure becomes my business.

They hadn't better legalize reefer.

One of my retirement dreams (on the horizon and closing in) is to ride the Siberian Express, smoke a joint and singing nationalistic russian songs with the other passengers while I'm wearing a t-shirt that says "I couldn't do this in my country."

If reefer is legalized it would take all the fun out of it just knowing I could be sitting home on the porch twisting a fatty and it's perfectly legal.

ROTFLMAO

Dop

Also, when I have to pay your medical bills (through higher insurance premiums or taxes) because of any adverse effect your drug use causes, it damn sure becomes my business.

Then that would make most things that other people do your business...smoking, drinking, sex, any athletic activity that could injur the person, unhealthy food. So should I ask your permission before I do any of these things since its your business?

Gatsby, it looks like me and you are the only ones against intoxicants.

Oh, and Cap'n M too

Gatsby, it looks like me and you are the only ones against intoxicants.

What do you mean by "against" intoxicants? Do you mean you don't like them or are you in favor of them ALL being illegal?

I think most intoxicants do more harm than good, and depending on the level of negative effect they have, society would be better off if most intoxicants did not exist...but that doesn't mean making them illegal is always going to make things better.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Gatsby, it looks like me and you are the only ones against intoxicants.

Oh, and Cap'n M too


I.m neither for, nor against intoxicants. What I stand for is, first and foremost Individual Rights, secondly State's Rights and finally the Feds weigh in at the bottom just like the anchor they are.

It's useful to look at what the Dutch have been doing since 1976. Soft drugs (pot and hashish) were decriminalized and even allowed in certain "coffee shops." Good quote from this site (http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/11/7/17557/6451): "One intent of legalizing marijuana was to separate its sale from that of hard narcotics, especially heroin, so dealers pushing the first wouldn't try to lure young customers to the second. The new laws also treated heroin and cocaine users as patients rather than criminals, offering rehabilitation instead of punishment. The policies on marijuana and heroin seem to have been duly successful. Not only does cannabis use in the Netherlands rank lower than the United States, according to the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs, the Netherlands now ranks lower in the proportionate number of heroin users than many other Western European nations it paralleled when the new policies were enacted."

Compare the numbers of HARD drug use in the Netherlands and US here: (http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/national.nlusa.html)

Net result, less drug use overall, less money spent prosecuting small time users, and organized crime kept out of distribution.
Pragmatic approach works better than dogmatic in this case.

Me? Makes me fall asleep. I'd rather suck down a good frozen margarita any time.