What do you think is the one factor that unites a group of people the most? We have seen people unite from such causes as democracy, religion, retaliation, etc.
Also, do you think that a countries people could be stimulated into uniting for a common cause by ploys of a leader?

Peer pressure, stress and fear from the outside world ; possibly the rule of a charismatic leader.
Cults, terrorists groups, extremist political groups and even some companiesn all use these universal mind manipulation tools. North Korea is a good example of these used as the scale of a whole country, but the small terrorists cells that commited the 9-11 acts, or the Waco fanatics, all work the same way.

I see a competition between the Islamic and Christian religion for world domination approaching slowly.
Do you think that one day the radicals on both sides will resort to violence solely in the name of their religion?
I do not see these two religions eventually combining to become one. Therefore the stage is set for a type of struggle for a continuation of one and the elimination of the other. I do not see them co-existing over a long period of time.
The charismatic leaders you speak of could fuel this smoldering fire in a ploy for power and wealth.
In my lifetime I have seen an expansion of the Islamic religion in the world that has given Christianity a run for its money.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
I do not see them co-existing over a long period of time.

I don't see how one could be eliminated by the other. Through conversion ? No. Through destuction ? Neither. So they will HAVE to coexist, maybe with lots of trouble, but they have (we have) no other choice.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
[B]I see a competition between the Islamic and Christian religion for world domination approaching slowly.

Christians are not in competition with anyone. We desire to get the gospel out to people so they can be saved and make it into Heaven and they can know the Lord Jesus Christ as saviour. Extemist muslims desire to kill all the infidels and are against those who don't belive what they believe. Christians do not desire to kill those who don't believe as we belive and we are not against you for that either.


Do you think that one day the radicals on both sides will resort to violence solely in the name of their religion?

Extemist muslims already do so. Look at the terrorist acts that go on these days and you can see for yourself. Look at what's going on in Sudan or things that have happened in Indonesia. The muslims are fighting with the Jews in Isreal and fighting with the Hindu's in the Kashmir province of India.


I do not see these two religions eventually combining to become one.

Nope. You cannot combine christianity with anything else. We are not going to compromise our Lord that He is the way, the truth and the life. He is the way to Heaven. He is the bread of life and the hope of glory. There is none before Him and none after Him. He is the alpha and omega, the first and last is He.

Therefore the stage is set for a type of struggle for a continuation of one and the elimination of the other.

The gospel has always had resistance. There is always people who came against the gospel. When people are won to the Lord Jesus Christ and accept Him as saviour, many will not like it. Back in the early church days, the church was persicuted and is today. Just that in democratic countries, christians have the right to practice christianity as freedom of religion is a right. In some countries, christianity is severely persicuted. Because it is the truth and the truth sets people free.


The charismatic leaders you speak of could fuel this smoldering fire in a ploy for power and wealth.

Those who walk with Christ the way they are supposed to are not hungry for money and don't do what they do to get wealthy. They trust in the Lord for their proivsions.

Originally posted by astrapol2
I don't see how one could be eliminated by the other. Through conversion ? No. Through destuction ? Neither. So they will HAVE to coexist, maybe with lots of trouble, but they have (we have) no other choice.

I can co-exist with anyone as long as they can co-exist with me.

Good responses J-Man.

You make life so much easier to me, I just have to read and agree. lol.

Dont expect a big war to break out. We are commanded, Thou shall not kill. We love all, and only want them to make it to Heaven, just like us.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by the J Man
[B]Christians are not in competition with anyone. We desire to get the gospel out to people so they can be saved and make it into Heaven and they can know the Lord Jesus Christ as saviour. Extemist muslims desire to kill all the infidels and are against those who don't belive what they believe. Christians do not desire to kill those who don't believe as we belive and we are not against you for that either.
------------------------------------------

History tells a different side.

I will use the Crusades as example of what can happen.
The crusades were religious expeditions undertaken to deliver the Holy places from " Mohammedan tyranny" by soldiers of the church, 400 years worth.

Extermination of the Albigensian heresy by religious crusade.

The 13th Century pope preached crusades against John Lackland and Fredrick II.

The expedition of Heraclius against the Persians.

Charlemagne's conquest of Saxony.

Even in the old testament of the Bible Moses and his followers attacked and overthrew any in their path (with the help of God) that happened to have land they wanted to occupy if my memory serves me correctly.

The Christians have used the cross to kill and occupy and under the right circumstances might do it again.
Just like the Christian fanatics that killed Doctors or blew up abortion clinics. The potential is there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by the J Man
Extemist muslims already do so. Look at the terrorist acts that go on these days and you can see for yourself. Look at what's going on in Sudan or things that have happened in Indonesia. The muslims are fighting with the Jews in Isreal and fighting with the Hindu's in the Kashmir province of India.
----------------------------------------------------

Seven hundred years of Christian expansion on Northern Europe was mainly done by the sword.

Christianity, in short, was as much a religion of the sword as Islam.

These men werent living by Christ's teachings.

"Those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword."

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
These men werent living by Christ's teachings.

"Those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword."
I wish more Christians would learn to live by this one...

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Ooooh! Let's not forget this one too!

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I wish more Christians would learn to live by this one...

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Ooooh! Let's not forget this one too!

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."


Borg, if this is somekind of personal slander on your behalf to me, its really rather rediculous and without any merit.

I would not throw the first stone; I too am a sinner. I do not judge---atleast I try my very best not to--but when there is someone that needs the lord (as you are an admitted Athiest for example) it is part of my duty as a chritian to help, by spreading the love of Jesus.

No, you misunderstood me. It's not a slam against you; it's a slam against the Christian Right.

Well, then, I agree.

There are Christians out there who need to remember these verses as well.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
These men werent living by Christ's teachings.


The point is that they believed that they were. There are many Christians even today that believe war against muslims and others who don't believe in Jesus, is tantamount to doing God's work.

It is often true that Christians claim they believe in the Bible but ignore the teachings of the man who lent his name to their faith.

As an example Jere, you wrote in the thread discussing miracles, about an incident where you went to pick up some pews in another state for your church which was being rebuilt. In this story you wrote

"On the way there a Suburban, that one of the guys was driving began to act funny. We were well away from Kentucky at this point, and didnt know what to do. We pulled over, and prayed.".

You also wrote:

We finally found our way to this family's house, and what a family they where. You could not have met a better Christian family anywhere. We had a nice prayer meeting with them...

In Jesus' sermon on the mount, he had this to say about prayer:

Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

I'm not saying you are wrong in the way you pray, or that you aren't a "true" Christian. I'm saying that it is possible to call yourself a Christian even if you don't strictly follow the teachings of Jesus, so for you to dismiss the atrocities committed throughout history by Christians as the acts of people who weren't really Christians, is a bit unrealistic.

I'm not saying you are wrong in the way you pray, or that you aren't a "true" Christian. I'm saying that it is possible to call yourself a Christian even if you don't strictly follow the teachings of Jesus, so for you to dismiss the atrocities committed throughout history by Christians as the acts of people who weren't really Christians, is a bit unrealistic.

When Christ tells us not to be like the hyprocrits he is saying to not pray just so people will hear you and be impressed. When we pray, we are praying TO God. If we do choose to pray aloud, which I personally do not, than we shouldnt just be trying to master oratorers. We are talking with God.

And about where you said...

"so for you to dismiss the atrocities committed throughout history by Christians as the acts of people who weren't really Christians, is a bit unrealistic."


I did not say that they werent really Christians. I said they where Christians that werent living by Christ's teachings. One can be a Christian and not obey God's will. I do. My preacher does. The head of the Southern Baptist Convention does. The Pope does.

My point is we are all sinners...and that we may make mistakes. When I said these Christians need to realize that violence and anger are not what Christ intends, I am saying just that. Im not sayig that they arent Christians.