I mean, come on. A variety of people dissapear all of a sudden. It would be sort of like:

Jane: Oh hi Jill! How are you?

Jill: Fine and Dandy? How was the Church Camp?

Jane: SUPER! Did you know that -

*Jane suddenly dissapears.*

That would be sort of ackward, wouldn't it? Here's another one for your enjoyment:

Danny: Hi girlfriend!

Eric: Um, hi Danny.

Danny: Can I tell you something?

Eric: Sure. Fire away.

Danny: Well...I...

*Eric Dissapears*

Danny: ERIC? WHAT??????? NOOOOOOOOOOOO

I don't think people would go " Oooooo the rapture just happened! We're doomed!!!"

And if this post is wrong, I'm sorry. But oh well...you'll live...hopefully...

Not a "wrong post", revenG. Fits in with any Grimm's Fairytale.
A story to frighten children into submitting to another one of Man's religions for controlling the masses.
From the same (story book) which also included sending 10% of your income to the leaders of the group in return for favoritism and personal gain. Kind of like a modern day pyramid scheme.

Yep the rapture has got to be one of the most silliest ideas out there.

What a joke.

Sad thing is people really believe that crap.

Ever seen one of those "In case of Rapture, this car will be unoccupied" bumper stickers? They seem awfully sure of themselves.

lol here's a good one


Osama: Then we shall attack the Pentagon!

Followers: Yes!

*Army guys outside*

Army 1: There he is. Aim the bazooka at his head.

Army 2: Ready sir!

Army 1: FIRE!

*The bazooka ZOOMS at Osama. When it is 10 feet away, he dissapears.*


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. lol

Wouldn't it be ironic if God only took all the gays?

What would the Christians think about that? :D

Maybe they will feel betrayed by god. Then they may get REALLY REALLY pissed off.

Maybe they will think this is *still* part of god's plan. It looks like anything that's not supposed to happen but which did happen can be interpreted as "part of god's plan". It's like a catch-22. It's logically fool-proof. Unbreachable.

Amazing is the human ability to rationalize each's own ideals.

Heh I know for a fact I'd probably be left down here...too many years of video games....right revenG?

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Wouldn't it be ironic if God only took all the gays?

What would the Christians think about that? :D
God will take those who've truly and genuinely accepted Him into their hearts.

Originally posted by revenG_DeSire
lol here's a good one


Osama: Then we shall attack the Pentagon!

Followers: Yes!

*Army guys outside*

Army 1: There he is. Aim the bazooka at his head.

Army 2: Ready sir!

Army 1: FIRE!

*The bazooka ZOOMS at Osama. When it is 10 feet away, he dissapears.*


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. lol

That would be a good one. accept one thing. Osama must have repented if He is going to make the rapture. He would no longer be apart of those terrorism and Al-Quaida. He then might not have to wait until the rapture because if he accpeted Christ, he'd then be considered a traitor to Islam. They'd be the ones firing the bazooka at him.

lol Shadow. Yeah....and too many times fantazing about Tidus, Yuna, and Wakka!...Yum! lol...

anyways, maybe if God DOES rapture all the gay people, the Christians will believe that he's just delivering them to hell as a *Good Luck* thingy with the Devil. You know, how the devil and god are supposed to fight a war or something? Blah...

Regarding Osama: Hey, JMAn you never know. God *supposedly* works in mysterious ways remember?

Hey Shadowdid you post during school or what?

YOUR pic is hot...send it to me through email!

Originally posted by the J Man
God will take those who've truly and genuinely accepted Him into their hearts.

In theory perhaps, but in reality - this will never happen because it's nothing but a fairy tale.

I also heard that during the rapture jack, jill and ba ba black sheep will turn into eggs and fall off a wall - so watch out!

If I get to heaven I am going to melt the gold off the streets and sell it.

Anyway - Fox owns all rights to the rapture

"Fox news executives are saying they own all the rights to The Rapture — book rights, movie rights, rights to the name, and all product tie-ins — because they are "upright, decent, liberal-bashing Christians" and the other TV networks aren't. ..more (http://www.last-laugh.net/rapture.htm)

You all seem to have a limited knowledge on the rapture.

Its going to be God's church getting raptured. (Not Osama duing a war. [not to say Osama could not be raptured if he repents])

And its not a silly idea. What is so hard to fathom about a God that is greater than us? He is not confined to our weaknesses. He is perfect and can do all things.

Good Omens, best armagedon book ever! I suggest you all read it! ADAM, the Anti-Christ, has a dog named Dog, the Satanical hell hound and cat worrier. Don't forget Azphirale, the angel and part time rare book salesman, and his best friend Crowly, the angel who didn't so much fall as saunter vaguely downward.

If you want an actual good fiction based on the biblical description of the rapture and tribulation, I suggest reading the Left Behind series, or even watching the adaptaion movies of the book.

You really don't catch things very well do you? It's a comedy. Very funny, almost as funny as the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, they even said it was a direct descendent on the book!

Im sorry, the rapture isnt a joke to me. I take my salvation very serious.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Im sorry, the rapture isnt a joke to me. I take my salvation very serious.
Lighten up! Jesus...

I cant imagine you know how offensive it is to me, so expect me to lighten up on blasphemy.

Originally posted by Blibblob
You really don't catch things very well do you? It's a comedy. Very funny, almost as funny as the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, they even said it was a direct descendent on the book!

This subject isn't funny at all. You can laugh and mock all you like, but when this happens, you will be left in a world that will be worse than Earth has ever been. All that is going on today is just the tip of the iceberg for what is up ahead.

I am not going to keep on debating about this subject for you have what is written in the Word of God. You either will accept it or reject it. That is up to you. As a christian, it is my job to get the gospel of salvation out to people. I can't worry about whether or not they will accept it.

Originally posted by the J Man
This subject isn't funny at all. You can laugh and mock all you like, but when this happens, you will be left in a world that will be worse than Earth has ever been. All that is going on today is just the tip of the iceberg for what is up ahead.

I am not going to keep on debating about this subject for you have what is written in the Word of God. You either will accept it or reject it. That is up to you. As a christian, it is my job to get the gospel of salvation out to people. I can't worry about whether or not they will accept it.

Getting out the Gospel is one thing - but promoting fairy tales is another.

People have been waiting for the rapture for 2000 years so far & in 2000 years they will still be waiting and 2000 years after that - because it isn't going to happen - period.

Originally posted by the J Man

I am not going to keep on debating about this subject for you have what is written in the Word of God. You either will accept it or reject it. That is up to you. As a christian, it is my job to get the gospel of salvation out to people. I can't worry about whether or not they will accept it.

Exactly.:thumbs:

Originally posted by the J Man
This subject isn't funny at all. You can laugh and mock all you like, but when this happens, you will be left in a world that will be worse than Earth has ever been. All that is going on today is just the tip of the iceberg for what is up ahead.

I am not going to keep on debating about this subject for you have what is written in the Word of God. You either will accept it or reject it. That is up to you. As a christian, it is my job to get the gospel of salvation out to people. I can't worry about whether or not they will accept it.
---------------------------------------------------
First of all I do not believe that "what is written" is the "word of God" in the Bible. I believe it is the words of Men.
As a non-christian it is my job to get the gospel of commonsense out to people. I can't worry about whether or not they will accept it.
My gosh, I remember not many years ago when a religious group thought that they would ride a comet to see God. When it came close to earth they committed suicide enmass to "catch the comet"and ride it to heaven.
This religious stuff and ardent "believers" grasping at some sort of utopia upon death is brainwashing at its best.

Disclaimer: I do not insinuate that any forum member is brainwashed. I would be speaking of someone in another forum.

The idea of a rapture was probably to keep the peasants working in the fields under terrible conditions, awaiting their ride out of there.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
You all seem to have a limited knowledge on the rapture.

Its going to be God's church getting raptured. (Not Osama duing a war. [not to say Osama could not be raptured if he repents])

And its not a silly idea. What is so hard to fathom about a God that is greater than us? He is not confined to our weaknesses. He is perfect and can do all things.

Speaking of people who are too sure of themselves....

)Originally posted by the J Man
This subject isn't funny at all. You can laugh and mock all you like, but when this happens, you will be left in a world that will be worse than Earth has ever been. All that is going on today is just the tip of the iceberg for what is up ahead.

I am not going to keep on debating about this subject for you have what is written in the Word of God. You either will accept it or reject it. That is up to you. As a christian, it is my job to get the gospel of salvation out to people. I can't worry about whether or not they will accept it.

Why will it be worse than now? Will Bush rule the WHOLE world? EEEKKK! (:D) (No offense to Bushie People)

Originally posted by revenG_DeSire
Speaking of people who are too sure of themselves....

I admit, I am confident in my Christianity, because I know that Jesus promised that he is the only way to Heaven. And I have Jesus in my heart.

Originally posted by DrewM
Getting out the Gospel is one thing - but promoting fairy tales is another.

Now, you know this is a fairy tale?
How do you know this?
Wait, Drew, could it be that your powers exceed this forum? Maybe you've "evolved" into an incredible mutant with the power of complete knowledge.
Hey, with evolution, everything is possible. Actually everything is not only possible, but probably happened already.

Ahh evolution, the fairy tale that gives the masses permission to do what ever they want to anyone else. Didn't Hitler use evolution to help his social cause?

Come to think of it Australia, used evolution as an excuse to try and wipe out the Aborigines, the United States used evolution as the authority to mistreat the Indians.

I bet we could come up with a lot of examples of Man suppressing and oppressing Man using the grim fairy tale of evolution as their authority.

Now, what was it Darwin said about the people of Africa and the level of their evolution...it wasn't let's say... politically correct.

It's easy to determine what a fairy tale is, one does not need any special powers.

But setting that aside, and using the cop out assumption that everything in the Bible is supposed to be literal. The word Rapture is not in the Bible, in fact the doctrine of the rapture is not even mentioned in any christian writings until the early early 19th century - not a single Christian scholar in the previous 1700 years made any mention of it. Strange huh?

What we have here is, even for Christians who take Christianity seriously, is a crack pot fairy tale promoted in christian movies and books and sensationalized (such as in the left behind series). The brainwashed masses suck up this crap like it is going out of style, especially the kids. When people have ceased to think for themselves they will believe anything no matter how crazy it is and there isn't a damn thing anybody can say that will make them realise how screwed up it all is.

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thes. 4: 13-18.

Which means what?

Which means the rapture is mentioned in the Bible. Its not called, "The Rapture," but it is described right there in Black and white.

It doesn't say anything of the sort - it's Bible-ese language that could mean just about anything ! To say it's there in Black and white is beyond belief!

Don't you think it strange that for 1700 years Christian scholars didn't even once mention the rapture? and strange that it wasn't until 1830 when the rapture became a concept.

Open your eyes!!! Take off your dark glasses, put out the fire on the dollar, and read.

How can you say that bible verses clearly stating that we will be in the air with Christ upon his return (along with all the other Christians that have went before us) is not exactly what our concept of the Rapture is?!?!?

I would rather you explain to me how you get that it could mean something else.

In the air could mean many things

- you will be floating 5 feet off the ground
- you will be floating at 30,000 feet
etc etc

Don't see any mention of heaven

Plus - the Bible wasn;t written in English, it was written in Greek. The Greek probably is something totally different.

It could be symbolic - remember it was written for a wide audience 2000 years ago.

Why do you stbbornly persist in have a closed mind? Even when the facts are against you.:confused: Brainwashing perhaps?

I have an open mind. I understand that not every single detail that we percieve about things such as details concerning the Rapture may be correct.

I do know that God's church will not be here for the Tribulation, and it doesnt matter if we lloat into Heaven, if we disappear, if a big finger flicks me into the clouds or what, as long as I am with the lord, I am in the right spot.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I have an open mind. I understand that not every single detail that we percieve about things such as details concerning the Rapture may be correct.


Well perhaps if not every single detail is correct (given that your details are very specific) - then maybe none of them are correct.

I believe that the God, the Bible, and God's teachings through the bible are infalliable.

There is nothing in the bible that isnt the truth.

Yes but you just admitted some details may be incorrect

And, the Bible is written in Hebrew & Greek. What you read is an English translation - some things don't translate well. Plus man is not infallable & Man did the interpretation

I hate to stick my nose in your discussion…Okay, I look forward to sticking my nose in your discussion, but I’ll pretend to hate it…anyway here’s what I have for you; that word your looking for in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 is found in verse 17, it’s the Greek word pronounced harpazo, and it’s Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance # 726 the definition reads: to seize, catch away, or catch up, pluck, pull, take (by force).
Christians have taken to calling this event, where God “harpazo” His people and takes them away, the rapture. Call it what you will “caught up,” “surfing to heaven with God,” “flying away,“ or “the rapture,” the doctrine is still the same and is spoken of in 1Thessalonians chapter 4.

Originally posted by DrewM
Getting out the Gospel is one thing - but promoting fairy tales is another.

So what according to you is promoting fairy tales? What would you consider the difference between getting the gospel out and fairy tales? The rapture of the church is biblical. So how do yuo figure this is a fairy tale if it is biblical?

People have been waiting for the rapture for 2000 years so far & in 2000 years they will still be waiting and 2000 years after that - because it isn't going to happen - period.

The Word of God says "No man knoweth the day nor the hour." We do not know when but by what is going on in the world today, it is obvious that it isn't too far away.

In religions of thousands of years ago, when men did not know what was above the clouds, it was not uncommon for men to envision going up(towards the sun) to meet their God. I believe that this rapture stuff originated in just such a manner. Men were pretty ignorant as to what lay outside the earths atmosphere. Imaginations ran rampant. God above the earth, devil beneith.

Although I have a problem believing that a book written by man is infallable - suspending that and assuming it is infallable and all that.

What I cannot accept is how one can take a book written 2000 years ago in language pertinant to understanding 2000 years ago and take every single thing literally.

The rapture is a case in point. This is taken very literally, yet minor points are hardly ever taken literally - its cherry picking of parts to take in a literal sense and worse still it's somewhat mindless in being accepted.

stark - thanks for the Greek background to the Bible passage.

Originally posted by DrewM
Yes but you just admitted some details may be incorrect


No, thats not what I said. I said we may percieve incorrectly.

In other words, our human minds are no where what God's are, so there are times when we can not understand the greatness and power of God.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
No, thats not what I said. I said we may percieve incorrectly.

In other words, our human minds are no where what God's are, so there are times when we can not understand the greatness and power of God.

I agree entirely, although in most instances you have everything figured out down to the fine details, even how lush the grass will be in heaven. So your statements now don't comply with everything else you have said. Confusing huh? You should be confused because what you believe is pretty much all simplicity wrapped in a big red bow, but upon close examination it's as leaky as a old bucket.

When the Bible tells us something, you can put it in the bank.

It is the supreme truth, above all else. When man takes verses and tries to twist them into something else, than we are then messing up. If there is ever a problem with the word of God, it was the readers fault, not the inspirer.

Originally posted by the J Man
The Word of God says "No man knoweth the day nor the hour." We do not know when but by what is going on in the world today, it is obvious that it isn't too far away.

People have been saying this since the Bible was written. What makes you think your estimation that the end of the world is approaching is any more accurate than those who believed the world was going to end in the year 1000?

Vile,

There is one thing very different between our time and thiers.

There are things happening in the world now, that are fulfilling prophecies left and right, and setting the table for the Anti-Christ.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
When the Bible tells us something, you can put it in the bank.

It is the supreme truth, above all else. When man takes verses and tries to twist them into something else, than we are then messing up. If there is ever a problem with the word of God, it was the readers fought, not the inspirer.


1 Kings 7
23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

Would this statement be an accurate one that I can "put in the bank", or just an approximation that needs some refinement?

Can you say that if I realize that the value of pi is actually not "3" but rather 3.14159..., this is a "fault" of mine?

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Vile,

There is one thing very different between our time and thiers.

There are things happening in the world now, that are fulfilling prophecies left and right, and setting the table for the Anti-Christ.

People have said the same thing countless times throughout history. What makes you think that they are right about it now?

Give me one prophecy from the Bible that unambiguously indicates that the end is approaching now.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Vile,

There is one thing very different between our time and thiers.

There are things happening in the world now, that are fulfilling prophecies left and right, and setting the table for the Anti-Christ.

The world has always been in turmoil. Today is no different than in the past & people have been predicting the end of the world for the past 2000 years. Guess what - they were all dissapointed.

jere - my guess is that you are hoping that the end of the world is close.

This stuff is no different than Star Trek is to geeks.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Give me one prophecy from the Bible that unambiguously indicates that the end is approaching now.

Consider the signs that Jesus said would be the prelude to His return and notice how they've begun to occur in our time:

False Christs: The past few decades have witnessed a huge upsurge in charismatic leaders claiming to be Christ or the Jewish Messiah, including the Moonies' Rev. Sun Moon, the Buddhist Dalai Lama, the Hindu Krishnamurti, and the Bahais' Baha Ullah, to name a few. Collectively, their followers number in the u millions. . Jesus replied to them, "See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5


War: War in the original Greek of Matthew 24 is ethnos, meaning ethnic or racial war. A recent editorial in Time magazine reported there are presently 67 wars being fought around the planet and most of them are ethnic wars, including recent' years' slaughter in Rwanda and Bosnia along with the middle east conflict. According to the National Defense Council Foundation, conflicts around the globe have doubled since 1989. "... you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars..." Matt. 24:6,7

Famine: The LA Times reported recently that more than one billion people suffer from serious malnutrition. More than 35 million people living mostly in the southern states of Africa suffer from acute hunger and are threatened with imminent death. "There will be famines..." Matt. 24:7. 3

Pestilence The rate of infectious diseases has increased 58% since 1980, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Diseases once considered conquered are now reappearing, sometimes in drug-resistant forms. AIDS has become a worldwide scourge, and viral diseases such as Ebola pose an international threat because of transcontinental flight. "There will be pestilences." Matt. 24:7.

Earthquakes The number of dangerous earthquakes measuring 6.0 or greater on the Richter scale has been steadily increasing since the 1950s when there were nine. In the 1960s, there were 13. In the 1970s, 51. In the 1980s, 86. In the 1990s more than100 such serious earthquakes where recorded, according to the LA Herald Examiner. "There will be...earthquakes in various places." Matt. 24:7.

The Seas and Waves Roaring: The hurricanes in Florida easily come to mind. "There will be bewilderment at the roaring of the sea and waves." Luke 21:25.

Great Signs in the Heavens: The 1994 comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, a string of 21 space rocks that slammed into Jupiter with the power of thousands of nuclear explosions, could be a heavenly sign. Jupiter is the mythological king of the planets and in Christian symbolism it is a representation of Christ. The 21 explosions are reminiscent of the 21 judgments that will befall Earth during the seven-year period that ushers in the coming of the Messiah, according to the Book of Revelation. The comet Hyakutake lit up the night sky, and then the spectacular comet Hale-Bopp, first sighted in 1995, came nearest to our sun in the spring of 1997. "Great signs shall there be from heaven." Luke 21:11.

Violence: Since 1960 violent crime has increased in the U.S. by 560%, according to FBI statistics, and the number of reported cases of child abuse in the U.S. has risen from 670,000 in 1976 to nearly 3 million in the 1990s. Other nations are experiencing similar dramatic increases in violent crime, reports the San Francisco Chronicle. "...as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mt. 24:37. ("And God said unto Noah, '...the earth is filled with violence...'" Gen. 6:13.)


Gospel Preached to the Whole World Pope John Paul II has traveled to 70-plus nations during his pontificate, preaching the gospel to millions. The Rev. Billy Graham recently conducted a week-long crusade from Costa Rica translated into every language on the planet and broadcast via satellite around the globe. With Communism's collapse, Christian radio and TV began reaching into almost every nook and cranny of planet Earth. "...and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world and then the end shall come." Mt. 24:14.

I bet the Pope disagrees with 99% of what you believe

Israel reborn as a nation in 1948 (Ezek. 4:3-6, Lev. 26:18)
Israel surrounded by hostile Arab countries (Psalm 83:4-8)
Jerusalem inhabited by the Jews (Luke 21:24)
Israel negotiates a peace treaty with her enemies (Daniel 9:27)
Doomsday weapons threaten earth (Joel 2:3)
Ecological devastation occurs (Rev. 11:18)
The Roman Empire revives as the European Union (Daniel 2:40-44)
Heresies become widespread (II Thess. 2:3)
Russia rises as a military power (Ezek. 38:1-12)
A hole in the ozone layer develops (Rev. 16:8.9)
TV communications are global (Revelation 11:9,10)
Satanic and cultic activity arises (I Tim. 4:1)
Sub-dermal microchips for identification purposes proposed by the U.S. military (Rev. 13:16,17)
Massive increases in wealth occur (Jas. 5:3)
GATT and World Trade Organization become possible forerunners of a world government (Rev. 13:7)
Asia possesses resources for a 200-million-man army (Rev. 9:14-16)
The Euphrates River can be dried up (Rev. 16:12-v 14) and a military highway linking Asia to the Middle East is being completed (Rev. 9:14)
Knowledge vastly increases (Dan. 12:4)
Russian and Ethiopian Jews return to Israel (Jer. 23:7,8; Zeph. 3:10)
The Hebrew language is recovered (Zeph. 3:9)
Jerusalem is rebuilt in nine specific directions (Jer. 31:38-40)
Levites and priests train for Temple service (Ezek. 43:14,15)
Israel's rainfall increases dramatically (Joel 2:23) and the country becomes fertile and blossoms (Isa. 27:6)
Men become more selfish, arrogant, abusive, ungrateful, fierce and treacherous (II Tim. 3:2,3)

False Christs - this has been going on forever the only difference in the past 50 years is the media

War - http://www.warscholar.com/Timeline.html - nothing special about this period in history

Famine - nothing new there

Earthquakes - The past 50 years is no yardstick

Pestilence - At the current time the level of infectious diseases being fatal is at an all time low for the history of the planet

Signs in the heavens - well if you want to look at a comet & say it's a sign of the 2nd coming of Christ then ok...

Violence - Crime Index has been steadily falling since 1992 and was relatively steady between 1976 and 1992

Gospel Preached to the whole world - The power of TV

My point is - if you want to believe something you can find any facts you want - even if they are miss-leading like yours were

Explain the exact Bible verses and how they say these exact things

The Roman Empire revives as the European Union (Daniel 2:40-44)
Russia rises as a military power (Ezek. 38:1-12)
A hole in the ozone layer develops (Rev. 16:8.9)
TV communications are global (Revelation 11:9,10)
Sub-dermal microchips for identification purposes proposed by the U.S. military (Rev. 13:16,17)
Asia possesses resources for a 200-million-man army (Rev. 9:14-16)
The Euphrates River can be dried up (Rev. 16:12-v 14) and a military highway linking Asia to the Middle East is being completed (Rev. 9:14)

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Consider the signs that Jesus said would be the prelude to His return and notice how they've begun to occur in our time:

False Christs: The past few decades have witnessed a huge upsurge in charismatic leaders claiming to be Christ or the Jewish Messiah, including the Moonies' Rev. Sun Moon, the Buddhist Dalai Lama, the Hindu Krishnamurti, and the Bahais' Baha Ullah, to name a few. Collectively, their followers number in the u millions. . Jesus replied to them, "See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5

I think your history, and your conclusions are faulty. The Dalai Lama has never claimed to be Christ, or the Jewsih messiah, and there have been Dalai Lama's since the early 1400's. Hardly "our time". Why didn't the world end 600 years ago?

Here is a list of the prophecies you cite:

"See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5

"... you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars..." Matt. 24:6,7

"There will be famines..." Matt. 24:7. 3

"There will be pestilences." Matt. 24:7.

"There will be...earthquakes in various places." Matt. 24:7.

"There will be bewilderment at the roaring of the sea and waves." Luke 21:25.

"Great signs shall there be from heaven." Luke 21:11.

("And God said unto Noah, '...the earth is filled with violence...'" Gen. 6:13.)

"...and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world and then the end shall come." Mt. 24:14.

Which of these do you consider to be unambiguous?

Why would you two ask for examples, and then just say you can use anything as an example?

Is that really the only defense you can use....ask and then when an answer is presented just say anyone or anything could have done the same?

I think the point was that your examples are not very good.

Trust me - the moment you come up with something that actually makes sense - I will be the first to agree with you.

Everything so far - you are just repeating what somebody told you to say.

What do you mean, I am repeating what somebody told me to say?

And, when someone has a lack of faith, evidence that supports those who do, seem crazy and "child like." There is no evidence that a man can give you that is going to change anything, is there?

And if there is, give me an example of something that would do the trick.

To be honest I wouldn't call what you have faith, but I could be wrong.

Along with the question of how do you figure that I dont have faith, I would like to bring back up another question I asked you...

What would it take, evidence wise, to make you believe in the teachings of Christ and the bible.

There are 2 different things

It would be far easier for me to become a Christian than it would be for me to become a fundamentalist christian with wacko beliefs based on literal interpretation of Bible passages. I think the latter is impossible for me because even if Jesus Christ appeared to me in the room I would still reject it because fundentally I cannot agree with it. A God that sentances billions of Muslims / hindus etc to hell is not a God I would follow - ever & I could burn in hell knowning that I made the right choice.

But - what would it take for me to believe in basic Christianity. Well to some extent I already do believe & live many Christian teachings, but to become a practicing Christian - not sure there is really anything.

When you said if Christ came to you in your room, you still couldnt agree with it, why is that?

Re-read my post - I explained it

I understand that, but wouldnt the site of Jesus, tell you, your logic was wrong?

No it wouldn't

If Jesus appeared and said that all non-christians in the world were automatically doomed then I would have to say that I cannot agree with that - so count me out.

How could one accept something if they had zero respect for it?

Now, I suspect that if Jesus did appear to me - he would confirm that these people are not doomed.

Jesus does not have a zero tolerance. Its nothing too complicated. He died on the cross for our sins, and wants to come into our hearts. He is the only way to Heaven.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Jesus does not have a zero tolerance. Its nothing too complicated. He died on the cross for our sins, and wants to come into our hearts. He is the only way to Heaven.

Well this is quite a change in your story.

First you say that the only way into heaven is what you believe and all those muslims etc are condemmed to hell.

...now you say Jesus does not have a zero tolerance policy

Which is it?

Ive not changed my story on anything.

Jesus IS THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN. You have got to believe in him, and be saved by his grace in order to get to Heaven.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Ive not changed my story on anything.

Jesus IS THE ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN. You have got to believe in him, and be saved by his grace in order to get to Heaven.

That sounds like zero tolerance - you just said he doesn't have a zero tolerance :confused:

So, by that thinking - all the billions of non Christians are dammed to an eternity in hell. Like I said - that is a terrible view - I would reject that - even if Jesus appeared in the room and told me it was in fact true - I would say no thanks, I have no repect for that - I'd rather choose hell than be in heaven with somebody like that.

Drew!

He is our creator! He died for our sins! He made and owns us! He laid down his life for you? And you think him wanting to save your soul from an eternity of torture is a bad thing?

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Drew!

He is our creator! He died for our sins! He made and owns us! He laid down his life for you? And you think him wanting to save your soul from an eternity of torture is a bad thing?
No, you completely missed the point. He was saying that billions of people are going to be in that eternity of torture simply because they did not believe in Jesus is horrible. And it is a horrible, disgusting idea. If that's really what God is like...I'd prefer Hell. God, if he does what you say he does, is an evil, sadistic, vile creature.

No, I didnt miss the point, and its not sick.

HE IS OUR CREATOR!!!!!!! HE GAVE US LIFE!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE HIS TO DO WHAT HE WILL!!!!!!!

But he has gave us all the chance to be with him in eternal paradise, by SIMPLY BEING SAVED, AND WELCOMING JESUS INTO YOUR HEART.

Why would you want to go to Hell? A place where's leader has you around the throad as we speak. Where you will be tortured and agonized for millions upon millions upon more millions of years.

It is sick. If he is our creator, we have been created in the image of a monster who throws billions of people in Hell purely out of spite. Even Hitler never did such a horrible thing.

Jere - your concept of hell is wishy washy - I can't comprehend what that would be like - I have no fear of that.

But, your description of heaven is much more clear & it sounds like hell to me. No pain, no suffering sounds like no living. No pain, no suffering, no sin sounds like no free will. Overall it just sounds more boring than interesting.

You'd have to define hell a bit better & make heaven one hell of a lot more interesting before you can close the sale.

It's quite simple what Drew said, Jere.

If god shows his face Drew would not deny god's existance. However, just because god is the ultimate authority, the creator...whathaveyou, and he exists, Drew will only follow god if he thinks god is worth following. He is saying he does not accept god unconditionally. It's perfectly normal. Most people in this world believe in their religion conditionally. If there is something about it they don't like, they don't follow it. No religion has proved to be the single "true" one anyway, so in my opinion most people follow their religion based on preferance, not from being shown the truth.

Think about it eh?

Originally posted by DrewM


It would be far easier for me to become a Christian than it would be for me to become a fundamentalist christian with wacko beliefs based on literal interpretation of Bible passages.


Drew, Jesus accepts you as you are. He doesn't expect perfection out of you, but He does want your heart to be right with Him. Christianity is also a growth process. I did not become what I am today over night. People just have to want to grow in the Lord.

When it comes to interpreting scripture, it is important to have the Holy Spirit who gives you revelation of the Word of God.


I think the latter is impossible for me because even if Jesus Christ appeared to me in the room I would still reject it because fundentally I cannot agree with it. A God that sentances billions of Muslims / hindus etc to hell is not a God I would follow - ever & I could burn in hell knowning that I made the right choice.

Drew, if Jesus appeared to you in a room, you'd have a different perspective on God really is. You would be able to ask Him all the questions you want and He'd give you answers so you would have better understanding of Him. In His infinite wisdom, He'd know exactly what to say to you and how to answer your questions. Belive me Drew, for some time, I had questions that I wanted answers to as well. There is nothing wrong with that.

But - what would it take for me to believe in basic Christianity. Well to some extent I already do believe & live many Christian teachings, but to become a practicing Christian - not sure there is really anything. [/B]

Christianity has to start with the basics of it first.

Originally posted by Dio Seijuro
It's quite simple what Drew said, Jere.

If god shows his face Drew would not deny god's existance. However, just because god is the ultimate authority, the creator...whathaveyou, and he exists, Drew will only follow god if he thinks god is worth following.

God is worth following if you give Him a chance to be.

He is saying he does not accept god unconditionally. It's perfectly normal. Most people in this world believe in their religion conditionally. If there is something about it they don't like, they don't follow it. No religion has proved to be the single "true" one anyway, so in my opinion most people follow their religion based on preferance, not from being shown the truth.

Think about it eh?

God still loves you unconditionally.

Originally posted by the J Man
Drew, if Jesus appeared to you in a room, you'd have a different perspective on God really is. You would be able to ask Him all the questions you want and He'd give you answers so you would have better understanding of Him. In His infinite wisdom, He'd know exactly what to say to you and how to answer your questions.

Well given this is hypothetical - sure. I mean if God actually did appear in the room it would be a major situation & no doubt he would be able to answer any questions I had. And to follow that hypothesis - I am sure the answers would be different than the ones I have read posted here.

Believe me Drew, for some time, I had questions that I wanted answers to as well. There is nothing wrong with that.
Christianity has to start with the basics of it first.

I believe you, but don't miss-understand the origin of my questions. Any questions I have are not coming from a desire to learn more as steps toward conversion. My questions are to highlight the flawed nature of fundamental beliefs. I already know what you believe and I reject it absolutely & never will accept the injustice of fundamental christian beliefs.

Here's another one for the fun of it:

Man: Congratulations! You have just won the lottery!

Lady: YAY!

Man: In order to get your money, all I have to do is sign this check!

Lady: DO IT!

Ccrowd: Do it! Do it! Do it!

Man: Here goes....Jason Alexan *BOOP! He dissapears*

These are fun to make :D

Originally posted by revenG_DeSire
Here's another one for the fun of it:

Man: Congratulations! You have just won the lottery!

Lady: YAY!

Man: In order to get your money, all I have to do is sign this check!

Lady: DO IT!

Ccrowd: Do it! Do it! Do it!

Man: Here goes....Jason Alexan *BOOP! He dissapears*

These are fun to make :D

:rolleyes:

Will it be so fun for you when it happens?

Um...nope.

Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers (emphasis mine) -Psalm 1:1

Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Vil, that was the best post you've ever made. Thank you.

By far the greatest post youve ever made. If you always made sense like that, youd be ok.

Aw come on. What's life without a bit of sin?