Leading Dutch filmmaker and newspaper columnist Theo van Gogh was killed in Amsterdam on Tuesday morning.


Theo van Gogh (47), who directed television series, wrote columns and books, courted controversy during his entire career. One of his most recent productions dealt with violence against women in Islamic societies and prompted many death threats.

http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/dut041102.html

He has been killed by a morocan-origin man. Shot, stabbed and then shot again...:(

The Ducht are taking it pretty well (taking the circumstances as he received numerous death threats after realising his film Submmission from fundamentalist muslims). However, there has been some demostrations against muslims in the The Hague and the police has arrested some people. This is going to be pretty weird for a while...I mean in most European countries you can critized cristianism without any problem but when some public figure says something against islamic fundamentalism (not even against all muslims) then he/she automatically receives death threats and is harrased...Where is the free of speach in The Netherlands?

Originally posted by Teddy
He has been killed by a morocan-origin man. Shot, stabbed and then shot again...:(

The Ducht are taking it pretty well (taking the circumstances as he received numerous death threats after realising his film Submmission from fundamentalist muslims). However, there has been some demostrations against muslims in the The Hague and the police has arrested some people. This is going to be pretty weird for a while...I mean in most European countries you can critized cristianism without any problem but when some public figure says something against islamic fundamentalism (not even against all muslims) then he/she automatically receives death threats and is harrased...Where is the free of speach in The Netherlands?

There i


Hello Teddy,

I believe there is a projected truth about Islam and a real truth. One reason for their success is that they keep people from seeing the dark side of Islam and they will go to any length to keep quite anyone enlighting the public to the dark side of Islam.

I am going to look around for the DVD "Submission".



old reb

Originally posted by old-reb
There i


Hello Teddy,

I believe there is a projected truth about Islam and a real truth. One reason for their success is that they keep people from seeing the dark side of Islam and they will go to any length to keep quite anyone enlighting the public to the dark side of Islam.

I am going to look around for the DVD "Submission".



old reb

Hi old-reb.

I have contact with muslims, in parties, as room mates twice, I was even living for a while in a muslim neighbourhood (not much fun for a cristian although)...and yes, they try to "convert"very hard sometimes and they don't like when they realise that you have also read the Coran and you really know about the subject...but there is a thired generation of muslims who are starting to change...They want a different practice of their religion. The problem are the Imans and the new comers who try to keep Islam pure.

Originally posted by Teddy
Hi old-reb.

I have contact with muslims, in parties, as room mates twice, I was even living for a while in a muslim neighbourhood (not much fun for a cristian although)...and yes, they try to "convert"very hard sometimes and they don't like when they realise that you have also read the Coran and you really know about the subject...but there is a thired generation of muslims who are starting to change...They want a different practice of their religion. The problem are the Imans and the new comers who try to keep Islam pure.

I only met one Muslim and he was a very cool guy. I worked with him for several months but when I asked him what he would do if he saw Salmon Rushdie; -- well, he became excited and said he would kill him on the spot. I marveled that this normal guy would be so quick to take a life. He continued to be a cool guy as long as I knew him.

I can't seem to find the 10 min DVD called Submission. Please let me know if you know how to get it.


old reb

Hi,

Yeap the problem with some muslims is that they became very (humm how to say it), very intolerant when some of their dogmas are challenged. I have met muslims who stop talking to me because I challenged some of their laws, but other muslims agreed on the need to change their interpretation of the Coran to be able to live in a modern society. The problem is that the moderates are the minority and they cannot speak up (fundamentalists release a fatwa everytime they dare to)

About the film I could only find this:

http://www.pipp.nl/content/submissionpart1.avi

however at that website you might be able to find the rest.

Hello Teddy,

I contacted the author of an article about van Gogh and he sent this reply. Unfortunatly the site is in Dutch. Maybe you could help me find an english version of "submission" on the site. At least you know the language.

xxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello. Unfortunately, I don't know whether ``Submission'' is available on DVD.
May I suggest you contact the original broadcaster directly? The film was shown
on Aug. 29 by VPRO, in the Netherlands. The Web site of VPRO is:
http://www.vpro.nl. Kind Regards. Malcolm Fried. Bureau Chief. Bloomberg News.
Amsterdam.


old reb

Originally posted by old-reb
Hello Teddy,

I contacted the author of an article about van Gogh and he sent this reply. Unfortunatly the site is in Dutch. Maybe you could help me find an english version of "submission" on the site. At least you know the language.

xxxxxxxxxxxx
Hello. Unfortunately, I don't know whether ``Submission'' is available on DVD.
May I suggest you contact the original broadcaster directly? The film was shown
on Aug. 29 by VPRO, in the Netherlands. The Web site of VPRO is:
http://www.vpro.nl. Kind Regards. Malcolm Fried. Bureau Chief. Bloomberg News.
Amsterdam.


old reb

My Dutch is not very good :o ...I use English all the time at work and at home and some Spanish too, but I never practice my Dutch...luckely for you I can read it...
I have searched that website and they only have articles about the movie...
I guess as it has been aired so recently, the DVD wouldn't be available yet. But, knowing the business sense of the Dutch I bet it will be ready for sale during this Holidays.

I will talk with some Dutch friends about the DVD and I will let you know.

Latest news of death of Van gogh.



De Telegraaf said detectives have come across a "death list".

Top of the list was Van Gogh who made the movie Submission which criticised the treatment of women in Islamic communities.

The other five names on the list are Somali-born Liberal VVD MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, independent conservative MP Geert Wilders; Immigration and Integration Minister Rita Verdonk; and Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen and his deputy Ahmed Aboutaleb.

There are unconfirmed media reports that Hirsi Ali and Wilders have been moved to safe houses for their protection.

Ali — who wrote the script for Submission — has gone into hiding several times in the past following death threats, the most recent being levelled against her and Van Gogh when the short film was screened in August.

Previously, Hirsi Ali drew the ire of both moderate and more fundamentalist Muslims by her comment that the Islamic Prophet Mohammed was by modern standards a "perverted tyrant" for marrying a 12-year-old girl.

Separately on Thursday night, Donner said the letter left at Van Gogh's body was a five-page open letter to Hirsi Ali threatening her life. It also contained references to a holy war "as it is waged by Muslim extremists", the minister said.





Hi Teddy,

I wait for new info on "Submission" thanks

old reb

Deputy Prime Minister Gerrit Zalm agreed with comments by other politicians who called Van Gogh's murder a declaration of Islamic holy war.

"The jihad has come to the Netherlands and a small group of jihadist terrorists is attacking the principles of our country," he said. "I hope the Netherlands will now move beyond denial and do what is fitting in a democracy; take action."

"These people don't want to change our society, they want to destroy it," he said.

The threat left by Van Gogh's killer carries the ideology of a fundamentalist movement, Takfir wal Hijra or "Repentance and Flight," which advocates isolation from what it calls the sinful world, Dutch media reported.

The letter, in Dutch and Arabic, predicts the downfall of the "infidel enemies of Islam" in Europe, including the Netherlands, and the United States.

"I know definitely that you, Oh America, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Europe, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Netherlands, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Hirsi Ali, will go down," it said.

Chief prosecutor Leo de Wit said the suspected killer, identified only as Mohammed B., faces at least six terrorism-related counts, including charges of murder and "participating in a criminal organization with terrorist characteristics."

It was the first time authorities characterized the slaying as a terrorist act.

The suspect, wounded in the leg in a shootout with police, has refused to talk to investigators. He was arrested with a note in his pocket titled "Drenched in Blood."

http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~2518056,00.html

That is the real nature of muslims...they want to kill us coz we're infidel LOL

I found a site that shows Van Gogh's 11 minute video "submission" that was the cause of holy war against him. Warning! It shows see through clothings that makes the woman appear to be topless.

In the West we are used to having freedom of the press and art but it is not allowed by these people under threat of death.

Here is the show:

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2655656?htv=12