In honor of services to humanity - Pagan is now a mod

YAY! ;) ;) ;) ;) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Whoohoo!

*cheers*

Oh no! ;)

This is good news! Welcome to the ever-fun world of moderating this craphole, Vile. ;)

I wish to lodge a complaint

Originally posted by Travh20
I wish to lodge a complaint

If you really wish to lodge a complaint, I would recommend sending a PM or an e-mail to Drew.

Have fun, Vile!!

Originally posted by es347fan
Have fun, Vile!!

LOL, thanks ES...I suspect Trav wants to complain about all the moderators being "librul"...conveniently ignoring the fact that you are not...I hope it gets interesting :D

Originally posted by Travh20
I wish to lodge a complaint

Oh come on, whattya think he's gonna do, ban all the conservatives?

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Oh come on, whattya think he's gonna do, ban all the conservatives?
Yeah, come on now! If that were to happen, I would have done it a long time ago!

And believe me, I have thought about it a time or two. ;)

The role of a forum moderator is to facilitate passionate yet respectful debate. In order to do this, people with a variety of various viewpoints must be allowed to express their opinions, as long as they do so in a respectable manner.

You could, very easily, ban all the conservatives and make this an all liberal forum, but I don't think that is what you want. That would get old very quickly.

If you want to have a forum where people will want to participate on a regular basis, the moderators must respect all members who are participating in good faith.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
The role of a forum moderator is to facilitate passionate yet respectful debate. In order to do this, people with a variety of various viewpoints must be allowed to express their opinions, as long as they do so in a respectable manner.

You could, very easily, ban all the conservatives and make this an all liberal forum, but I don't think that is what you want. That would get old very quickly.

If you want to have a forum where people will want to participate on a regular basis, the moderators must respect all members who are participating in good faith.
I completely agree with you, Uncool. Perhaps the only time I ever shall. ;)

Help ! He's going to ban all heterosexual, normal-eyed, non-milwaukian (?) members !

COOL Vile

Originally posted by BorgHunter
This is good news! Welcome to the ever-fun world of moderating this craphole, Vile. ;) This sure is a lot different response than when someone nominated Travh for moderator a few weeks ago. You plainly said that in your opinion the forum was very well taken care of with the moderators they already had. Guess you just wanted someone more along the lines of the way you think to be a moderator. I understand. Typical.

Originally posted by HaVoK
This sure is a lot different response than when someone nominated Travh for moderator a few weeks ago. You plainly said that in your opinion the forum was very well taken care of with the moderators they already had. Guess you just wanted someone more along the lines of the way you think to be a moderator. I understand. Typical.

I don't think political affiliation is relevant. We need moderators that aren't going to haul off and start deleting threads from people they disagree with. I can't see Vile doing that.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
I don't think political affiliation is relevant. We need moderators that aren't going to haul off and start deleting threads from people they disagree with. I can't see Vile doing that. I dont see Vile doing that either. As a matter of fact, I think he is a great person to be a moderator. So I dont mean anything negative towards him with my previous post. I just find it strange that all of a sudden Borg is creamin his jeans over Vile when last week he seemed offended by the thought of even needing another moderator.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I dont see Vile doing that either. As a matter of fact, I think he is a great person to be a moderator. So I dont mean anything negative towards him with my previous post. I just find it strange that all of a sudden Borg is creamin his jeans over Vile when last week he seemed offended by the thought of even needing another moderator.
I changed my mind a bit after thinking about it, because I can't check the forum until 2 PM and then on Saturdays not until 7 PM. And Vile, luckily, is free all those times, for the most part.

He also cleaned up some crap already, and that eases the work on me. :D

And furthermore, in response to your previous post, I don't think political affiliation is relevant at all to being a mod. Did you know that way back when I was an admin, I was the one who promoted es to Moderator? I thought he was the best man for the job at the time, and he hasn't proven me wrong yet. He's been a great mod. And he certainly is no liberal. I also happen to believe that Lionel and UncoolDuck would make some great moderators as well, though the power to promote them is out of my hands now. And, were it not for your post accusing me of being a biased, partisan moderator, I would have thought you would be a good mod as well. But thank god you cleared up the fact that you wouldn't be by hastily jumping to a false conclusion, a quality that would be somewhat of a liability to a moderator of this forum.

Thats fine, never wanted the job in the first place. I just like a place to post my opinions. Seems you took a little offense to my opinion. Once again, must have hit close to home with my thoughts.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Thats fine, never wanted the job in the first place. I just like a place to post my opinions. Seems you took a little offense to my opinion. Once again, must have hit close to home with my thoughts.
Actually, I did indeed take offense to your opinion because A) it is not based in fact and B) it makes plainly incorrect assumptions about me which I find, frankly, repulsive. In my 6000 posts on this forum, one would think you'd know me better than to think I would be partisan in such nonpartisan things as forum moderation. I still say Trav would be a bad moderator because I think it's possible, if not likely, that he could have a hissy fit and delete posts by liberals that he didn't like, or possibly ban someone who didn't need to be banned. In fact, I don't support Trav because I'm partisan, I don't support Trav because he's partisan. I didn't state this opinion publicly because I didn't think it was something that needed to be said. In short, I lied about why I didn't like the idea of Trav as a mod so as not to insult him. Now, you have forced me to do so anyway in order to defend myself against your false accusations.

Trav, if you do read this: Sorry. It's simply my opinion and I certainly could be wrong about you.

whatever, i didnt plan on being a mod anyway.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I also happen to believe that Lionel and UncoolDuck would make some great moderators as well, though the power to promote them is out of my hands now.

I can agree with you 50% Borg. Lionel would make a great moderator!:D

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
I can agree with you 50% Borg. Lionel would make a great moderator!:D

:flowers:

If nominated, I will not run. If voted for, I will not serve. But I'm flattered.

P.S. How did this creepy avatar I posted get on the avatar list? LMAO! :flybyt: :flybyt: :flybyt:

Are all four mod's athiest?

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Are all four mod's athiest?
As far as I know, es and Leper are not atheists.

Dont know Leper, and I know ES has took light in the fact that I am a christiran so I wonder.

Vile asked to be a mod. I checked with Borg to get his agreement & he was ok with it so Vile is a mod.

I had no idea that Trav wanted to be a mod. Although I don't agree with Trav on a lot of things I would have no problem with him being a mod - no doubt he would be a very good mod.

There's lots of people here that would be fine mods - but we can't have everybody as a mod - this isn't a huge board afterall. But - obviously as time progresses if other people want to be a mod then that'll be fine.

I don't want to be a mod but I would like to be able to replace people's avatars by pictures of nice kittens and ducklings. Is it possible ?

Anything is possible.

congrats Pagan

To assume is to err, jere.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Are all four mod's athiest?

If you do a search of their posts, you will see that DrewM, VilePagan, BorgHunter, and es347fan have all made hateful comments directed against Christians.

I didn't find any from Leper, but I only looked back 4 months. Hope that helps you, Jere.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
If you do a search of their posts, you will see that DrewM, VilePagan, BorgHunter, and es347fan have all made hateful comments directed against Christians.

I didn't find any from Leper, but I only looked back 4 months. Hope that helps you, Jere.

I wouldn't say hateful comments - I would say accurate comments

I don't remember reading hateful comments on anyone from the mods (Drew has sometimes been quite rude against french people though, but he's forgiven !)

Originally posted by DrewM
I wouldn't say hateful comments - I would say accurate comments

Okay, you may amend my previous post to say, in your case in particular, "ignorant comments".

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
If you do a search of their posts, you will see that DrewM, VilePagan, BorgHunter, and es347fan have all made hateful comments directed against Christians.

I didn't find any from Leper, but I only looked back 4 months. Hope that helps you, Jere.

Since you obviously thoroughly researched your statement, please post two hateful comments I've made against Christians. If you can't, please apologize.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
Okay, you may amend my previous post to say, in your case in particular, "ignorant comments".

Ok I can accept that alteration because accuracy probably does seem ignorant to you. This I can't help you with.

Not an athiest by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
If you do a search of their posts, you will see that DrewM, VilePagan, BorgHunter, and es347fan have all made hateful comments directed against Christians.



Although none of these guys agree with christianity, at least they have allowed us to post here and get the gospel out. Borg even used to be a christian. He just doesn't belive anymore.

If we stand for the gospel, we will encounter opposition and even some people hating us. There were people who hated Jesus, and will also hate us.

Vile pagan had asked you to show 2 hateful comments he made towards christians. From what I see, I don't think he hates us, he just doesn't belive what we belive and doesn't agree with us.

There are a couple of people on here who despise christians, but these people that I am refering to are not moderators.

I don't hate christians - I just disagree. Plus Christians are 100% welcome to post here and try to convert as many people as they can.

The only people not allowed to post are the Irish. Just kidding.

Originally posted by DrewM
Ok I can accept that alteration because accuracy probably does seem ignorant to you. This I can't help you with.

I can accept the fact that, since you are unable to make an accurate comment, you are unable to help me with accuracy.

And don't get me wrong, JMan. I do appreciate the fact that Drew and the mods allow us to promote Biblical truth in this forum. However, it was my hunch that Drew, like Vil and Borg, accepted and actually enjoyed spirited discussion of the issues. Therefore, when I saw Drew make some remarkably inaccurate statements in another thread, I knew he wouldn't mind discussing it with me.

And as far as you are concerned, Vil, I submit the following:

1) You post, in your signature block, a website founded on the hatred of Christians. You've even bragged to me that you are a contributing author to that site. The title of this site, lovingly refers to Christians as "morons."

2) You also expressed your non-hatred of one Christian by stating "Jere is full of crap."

3) You also referred to the Genesis account of creation as a "fairy tale". You may disagree with the account. That's fine, but the term "fairy tale" is derogatory. If you merely disagreed with Christains, and didn't hate them, you would've said "account" or "story".

I don't care if you guys hate Christians. That's fine with me. Jere seemed to want to know the religious leanings of the mods, and I was just pointing that out to him. You all are to be applauded for not allowing your personal disagreements with us to interfere with your moderation duties.:thumbs:

Hate is a harsh word. Saying somebody hates Christians is like saying somebody hates a retard. Why all the talk of hate?

The world is filled with 1001 beliefs and dueling truths - take your pick - if one particular belief set makes you feel good then great, nothing wrong with that, but its no different a psychology than the millions of other people that think they have the ultimate truth also. The only common ground between groups that hold strong 'exclusive' beliefs is the human desire to affiliate.

I just prefer to look at the bigger picture - see the obvious pattern of people hanging onto multiple exclusive truths and reach the conclusion that whatever the real truth is - it aint found there. I don't feel the need to affiliate with a group of believers to feel right with the world and I don't have a burning desire to know a truth that I would probably have no better luck comprehending than a cat could understand wall street. Subscribing to one of the handy 101 belief sets would only server to complicate my life.

Lets face it - 99.99% of born again christians - if they were born in India would be Hindu with equal enthusiasm.

Originally posted by DrewM
Hate is a harsh word. Saying somebody hates Christians is like saying somebody hates a retard. Why all the talk of hate?
I told Vil this once, but I'll say it again for those who didn't see. I sometimes exaggerate to elicit a response. If I would've said "those mods disagree with Christians" it would've been met with a big "ho hum". Similarly, you called people with whom you disagree weak-brained. es called them a "bible thumping judge". Vil says they're "full of crap". And Borg says they're "living in a fantasy land."

I didn't think this would offend anyone. I've been called hateful, ignorant, a dumbass, and a bigot many times on this forum. I considered these an invitation for vigorous debate and was not offended by them.

Lets face it - 99.99% of born again christians - if they were born in India would be Hindu with equal enthusiasm.
This may be a topic for another place, but I do tend to agree and am somewhat bothered by this.

I didn't think this would offend anyone. I've been called hateful, ignorant, a dumbass, and a bigot many times on this forum. I considered these an invitation for vigorous debate and was not offended by them.

No worries - I wasn't offended, just questioning the use of hate as a description.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck


I didn't think this would offend anyone. I've been called hateful, ignorant, a dumbass, and a bigot many times on this forum. I considered these an invitation for vigorous debate and was not offended by them.



I have had those comments said to me by a couple of people here. Those who call us that are really hypocrites because when it comes to hatred, they are the ones who hate us and are intolerant towards us. It doesn't matter how nice we are and many good things we do, they find nothing but fault in us and accuse of us of being the source of all the world's problems.

Perhaps some people hate us because we are living by truth and we expose sin for what it really is. They enjoy their sinful practices and don't want to be it's wrong. That is why they hate us so much.

Satan who is a master of deception, had a lie going on in society today that there is no absolute right and no absolute wrong. Since that "new age" teaching tickles peole's ears, that is very widely accepted. Telling people they need to live righteously before God doesn't tickle people's ears, so they hate us standing up for the truth.

Satan who is a master of deception, had a lie going on in society today that there is no absolute right and no absolute wrong.

Thats quite a statement - see to me that sounds like something that would belong in maybe Star Wars or a good fantasy novel. It's really hard for me to understand how anybody can really latch onto that type of thinking.

Originally posted by the J Man
I have had those comments said to me by a couple of people here. Those who call us that are really hypocrites because when it comes to hatred, they are the ones who hate us and are intolerant towards us.

This is just false. I've never seen anyone suggest that Christians should change their lifestyle, or that Christians should be denied the right to marry. That's intolerance.

It doesn't matter how nice we are and many good things we do, they find nothing but fault in us and accuse of us of being the source of all the world's problems.

Perhaps some people hate us because we are living by truth and we expose sin for what it really is. They enjoy their sinful practices and don't want to be it's wrong. That is why they hate us so much.

I think there is no one on this board who "hates" Christians. Even the most vehement anti-christianity types here express their displasure not with the Christians, but with the policies of the Christians. I don't hate Christians but I do hate the notion that Christians are the only people qualified to define "sin" and thus decide how I should live my life. Trust me, when you point out my "sinful" practices to me, I'll feel free to point out your ignorance, and your intolerance.

[i]Originally posted by Vilepagan [/i


I think there is no one on this board who "hates" Christians. Even the most vehement anti-christianity types here express their displasure not with the Christians, but with the policies of the Christians.

Pagan, it is only a couple of people that I am refering to. that have shown hatred for christians. They make all sorts of accusations against us and talk to us like were the scum of the Earth. Their actions show their hatred. If they had their way, all bible believing christians would be executed. Of course, not every non-christian here thinks like that, but there are certain people that do.

I don't hate Christians but I do hate the notion that Christians are the only people qualified to define "sin"

We're not qualified to define sin. God is. He shows us in His Word what sin is. That is why He gave us His Word so that we can know what is right and wrong.

Hatred? No, derision is more accurate a description.

I know that every moderator you have, has made "derisive" remarks about christians and christianity along the lines of how the world would be a better place without us/it. You can hem and haw about how you "really dont hate" but I believe thats semantics. You look at us as an unneccessary group in this world.

Andrew I dont recall you making comments like these, but you have made no bones about the fact you do not respect christians or christianity. So my personal opinion is that since you picked most of these moderators, they fall more or less in line with your own opinions in the first place.

Originally posted by HaVoK
So my personal opinion is that since you picked most of these moderators, they fall more or less in line with your own opinions in the first place.
So what if we do? It's his site, he paid the money for it, so he can choose moderators using his own litmus tests...though I don't think that's how it was intended. When I became a mod, it was because I volunteered when Allforums desperately needed mods. es was promoted to modship by me. Vile, I believe, asked. And I don't have a single clue as to Leper's religious beliefs, though I can say that he was also promoted by me.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
So what if we do? It's his site, he paid the money for it, so he can choose moderators using his own litmus tests...though I don't think that's how it was intended. When I became a mod, it was because I volunteered when Allforums desperately needed mods. es was promoted to modship by me. Vile, I believe, asked. And I don't have a single clue as to Leper's religious beliefs, though I can say that he was also promoted by me. Im not making a point. This isnt a game of one-upmanship. Im stating my opinion only. So that childish little "so what, its my ball" bullshit you can feel free to keep to yourself.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Andrew I dont recall you making comments like these, but you have made no bones about the fact you do not respect christians or christianity. So my personal opinion is that since you picked most of these moderators, they fall more or less in line with your own opinions in the first place.

I can see how it might look like that - but the truth is that personal beliefs was not any kind of factor. To be honest I really don't care who is a moderator, this is not exactly the most popular site on the internet needing high level and frequent moderation. I'd be fine with any of the long standing members being moderators. Vile asked me if he could be a moderator - I said ok. If you had contacted me instead of Vile I would have said ok to that too. At the moment we have enough moderators.

I find it humorous that you anti-christian people try to defend yourselves. Just admit that you have absolutely NO respect for the religious beliefs of Christians, regardless of how much respect they give to you. In fact, you look at Christians as weak minded, bigoted sheep. The very mention of our belief system gets you hot under the collar. Just admit it.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I find it humorous that you anti-christian people try to defend yourselves.

I find your whole attitude humorous Dave. Why would I feel the need to defend myself, unless you feel you've attacked me?

Just admit that you have absolutely NO respect for the religious beliefs of Christians, regardless of how much respect they give to you.

I respect your right to believe whatever you like Dave, but as far as respect for your beliefs...not so much. I wonder why?

Let's see...you believe I'm sinful.

You believe I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity.

You believe God hates my lifestyle.

You believe that my lifelong commitment to another man doesn't deserve to be called a marriage, and you want to codify that into law.

Is this the "respect" you were saying you showed?

In fact, you look at Christians as weak minded, bigoted sheep.

Some Christians invite this conclusion upon themselves by their actions.

The very mention of our belief system gets you hot under the collar. Just admit it.

Quite the contrary, I find Christianty to be a very interesting topic of discussion, and if you've read very many of my posts you'd notice that I rarely get "hot under the collar" or act with hostility towards anyone.

What I find amusing, and somewhat distressing about some Christians is that they have taken a set of teachings that is predominantly meant to be a personal thing and they try to apply it to others.

What I mean by this is, some Christians read the Bible and say to themselves "What an excellent set of ideas, how can I use these ideas to make myself a better person?"

Some however, read the same Bible, look at someone else and say "What an excellent set of ideas, how can I use these ideas to make him a better person?"

If you want to believe in Christianity that's fine with me, as long as you don't try to use your beliefs to tell me how I should live my life.

Let's see...you believe I'm sinful.

You believe I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity.

You believe God hates my lifestyle.

You believe that my lifelong commitment to another man doesn't deserve to be called a marriage, and you want to codify that into law.

Is this the "respect" you were saying you showed?

So basically anyone who believes something contrary to your lifestyle is disrespectful? Give me a break.

It's true, I think homosexuality is a sin. Does this all by itself, regardless of how I treat homosexuals, make me disrespectful? I don't hold anything against homosexuals. NOTHING. I believe that everyone sins. A homosexual is no more of a sinner than me or any other person christian or otherwise. How can you think I'm a disrespectful person for believing that we all sin?

Some however, read the same Bible, look at someone else and say "What an excellent set of ideas, how can I use these ideas to make him a better person?"

So y ou think it's wrong for Christians to share their beliefs with people who don't hold the same beliefs?

Some Christians invite this conclusion upon themselves by their actions.

Example? Would you consider me one of these?

Originally posted by DaveTooner
So basically anyone who believes something contrary to your lifestyle is disrespectful? Give me a break.

Is that what I said? No.

It's true, I think homosexuality is a sin. Does this all by itself, regardless of how I treat homosexuals, make me disrespectful?

To a degree, yes. If it's a sin, that's between me and God. My sins are none of your business. Do you see me discussing your sins? Like any insult, it's only an insult if you verbalize it.

I don't hold anything against homosexuals. NOTHING.

Except perhaps when it comes to gay marriage.

So you think it's wrong for Christians to share their beliefs with people who don't hold the same beliefs?

Outside the context of a discussion of religion I think it's impolite.

Example? Would you consider me one of these?

Just to be clear Dave, you are asking me if I think you are a weak-minded, bigoted, sheep.

Dave, I don't think you're weak-minded, and I don't think you're a sheep.

I do think you do have some bigotry towards gays, if only a mild sort.

I'll tell you why.

First, if you didn't, you wouldn't feel the need to deny it like this: "I don't hold anything against homosexuals. NOTHING."

Second, you have a problem with gays being married. I know you have stated you want them to have all of the same rights as marriage...but, you don't want them to use the word "marriage".

I've asked you why, and your answer is "marriage is between a man and a woman". You seem to want to preserve the use of this word for heterosexuals only, and want gays to use a different word. This means that you want a clear distinction between your relationship with your spouse, and my relationship with my spouse. This implies that you place a different value on those two relationships, i.e. that one is superior to the other. Given this, I can't help but think that you look at gay relationships as inherently inferior to straight relationships, and thus are worthy of less respect. For lack of a better term, this is a kind of bigotry. No offense intended. :)

As a light-hearted aside, why would a Christian object to being called a sheep? You often refer to being part of a "flock", and you recite a psalm that begins "The Lord is my shepard..." :D

To a degree, yes. If it's a sin, that's between me and God. My sins are none of your business. Do you see me discussing your sins? Like any insult, it's only an insult if you verbalize it.

Well I hate to break it to you, but part of being a Christian is believing God's word, and God's word tells us what things are sins. So according to your logic, the mere belief in the Christian God is an act of disrespect. I agree that your sins are between you and God. That's why I don't criticize you for them. I am just as guilty as you. I just don't get how this is disrespectful. It surely is not intended to be. I make every effort to be respectful to people.

Except perhaps when it comes to gay marriage.

No. As you should know by now, my opinions on gay marriage are not due to any dislike for homosexuals.

Outside the context of a discussion of religion I think it's impolite.

Seems to me we are treated as though it is impolite WITHIN the context of discussion of religion. Here at least.

First, if you didn't, you wouldn't feel the need to deny it like this: "I don't hold anything against homosexuals. NOTHING."


Oh you have got to be kidding me. Defending myself against a blatantly false charge is a sign of guilt? I just can't win with you.

Second, you have a problem with gays being married. I know you have stated you want them to have all of the same rights as marriage...but, you don't want them to use the word "marriage".

Sorry, but this is just not bigotry. Youo obviously are having a hard time grasping where I come from on this issue because you just can't get past this bigorty thing. Oh wait, I defended myself, so I must be guilty.

This implies that you place a different value on those two relationships,

Wrong. I would be in favor of the government treating civil unions in the same manner as marriage. Not as an "inferior" relationship.

s a light-hearted aside, why would a Christian object to being called a sheep? You often refer to being part of a "flock", and you recite a psalm that begins "The Lord is my shepard..."

Because you people use it as an insult to suggest that we are ignorant and incapable of thought.

I'm not going to debate this with you anymore, so I'll just say this. I believe that EVERYONE is a sinner and we are all equally guilty. We all struggle with our own sins. Unfortunately, you have this view that anyone who disagrees with your lifestyle is a bigot. This is very short sighted. I assure you that I hold nothing against you for any reason. And by the way, please don't take my defense of myself as an admition of guilt.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
So according to your logic, the mere belief in the Christian God is an act of disrespect. I agree that your sins are between you and God. That's why I don't criticize you for them. I am just as guilty as you. I just don't get how this is disrespectful. It surely is not intended to be. I make every effort to be respectful to people.

You missed the point entirely. You may believe what you want about my sins and I couldn't care less, but when you verbalize your belief that I'm a sinner, I will be insulted. That's all.

No. As you should know by now, my opinions on gay marriage are not due to any dislike for homosexuals.

I believe you've convinced yourself of that.

Seems to me we are treated as though it is impolite WITHIN the context of discussion of religion. Here at least.

Not at all Dave, have I treted you as though you've been impolite?

Oh you have got to be kidding me. Defending myself against a blatantly false charge is a sign of guilt? I just can't win with you.

I'm sorry if I was unclear Dave. It's not that you defend yourself aginst being called a bigot, it's the vehemence with which you do it.

"Methinks thou doth protest too much"


Sorry, but this is just not bigotry. Youo obviously are having a hard time grasping where I come from on this issue because you just can't get past this bigorty thing. Oh wait, I defended myself, so I must be guilty.

Again, I believe you've convinced yourself that your stance on gay marriage has nothing to do with your feelings for homosexuals, but I don't buy it.

Wrong. I would be in favor of the government treating civil unions in the same manner as marriage. Not as an "inferior" relationship.

There is no reason to call them different things under the law unless you want a clear distinction made that they are different, and not equal.


Unfortunately, you have this view that anyone who disagrees with your lifestyle is a bigot.

Only those that want to do something about their disagreement, like ban gay marriage.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
You believe that my lifelong commitment to another man doesn't deserve to be called a marriage, and you want to codify that into law. That is not neccessarily a religious belief. I, for one, find homosexual relationships unnatural. Against natures plan, as well as God's law. I dont think of you as nasty or disgusting because of your sexual preference, just wrong.



Originally posted by Vilepagan
Some Christians invite this conclusion upon themselves by their actions. And some use their example to condemn the entire religion.




Originally posted by Vilepagan
Quite the contrary, I find Christianty to be a very interesting topic of discussion, and if you've read very many of my posts you'd notice that I rarely get "hot under the collar" or act with hostility towards anyone. Personally, I think you enjoy playing your word games. You are a very intelligent and obviously patient man who knows how to play with words so that your point usually turns our favorably. It's hard to tell if you actually get mad, because you could hide that fairly easily if you chose. You do not wear your emotions on your sleeve like I do.

I believe you do find the topic interesting, but most times your interest seems to parallel the interest of the cat with a mouse.

Again, I believe you've convinced yourself that your stance on gay marriage has nothing to do with your feelings for homosexuals, but I don't buy it.

So are you saying that it is impossible to be against gay marriage but not have anything against gays? Please.

There is no reason to call them different things under the law unless you want a clear distinction made that they are different, and not equal.


Well, they certainly are different.

Vilepagan,

You're doing a great job as a moderator. With booty-buddy Overdose thread-jacking our few intelligent threads on the Politics forum while you pat him on the back, and yourself nit-picking at grammar and spelling, you just may suceed in chasing off any semblance of good threads that exist here on allforums.

Have fun with me while it lasts. I will be leaving if this is allowed to continue. If you think I enjoy reading/posting on Politics only for you and Overdose to intervene by de-railing via spelling corrections, recaps on subject material that is off-topic, etc. on any thread that isn't going "your way", you're wrong. In fact, most boards would consider this an abuse of power.

I realize that is probably humorous to you, but I imagine that you will be seeing the quality of posting diminish in my wake. Maybe by agitating and eventually chasing off people like me, you guys can convince yourselves that you really have won.

Originally posted by Karankawa
Vilepagan,

You're doing a great job as a moderator.

Thanks. :rolleyes:

With booty-buddy Overdose thread-jacking our few intelligent threads on the Politics forum while you pat him on the back, and yourself nit-picking at grammar and spelling, you just may suceed in chasing off any semblance of good threads that exist here on allforums.

Booty-buddy? Surely you can come up with something more intelligent to say than that...

What nit-picking would that be?

Have fun with me while it lasts.

If you think dealing with your childish remarks, and petty complaints, is "fun" for me, you are sadly mistaken.

I will be leaving if this is allowed to continue.

I would not like to see that happen, but it is your choice after all.

If you think I enjoy reading/posting on Politics only for you and Overdose to intervene by de-railing via spelling corrections, recaps on subject material that is off-topic, etc. on any thread that isn't going "your way", you're wrong.

Actually, from everything I've seen since becoming a mod, I suspect you like to complain about non-existant problems. Why? I have no clue. I can tell you that you are the only one who does complain about the "problems" you mentioned above. Does that tell you anything?

BTW, What the hell are you talking about when you mention "spelling corrections"?

In fact, most boards would consider this an abuse of power.

I'm just a megalomaniac. :rolleyes:

I realize that is probably humorous to you, but I imagine that you will be seeing the quality of posting diminish in my wake.

"Imagine" is the right word.

Maybe by agitating and eventually chasing off people like me, you guys can convince yourselves that you really have won.

I find it ironic that you are complaining about my moderating, when I was the only moderator that even responded to your complaint e-mails. When you e-mailed your first complaint, in the interest of fairness, and to avoid the kind of asinine remarks like "booty-buddy" you've posted here, I asked OD to refrain from posting stuff about the Iraq war in the "definitions" thread. I can see now that it was a mistake to do so. I should have given them the attention that the other moderators did, and which they deserved, which is to say, none. In short Karankawa, you are lodging unfounded, and petty complaints because of your personal dislike for OD, and me. Get over it.

Personally,

I approve of the job that the moderators and admin are doing. I would like to see a Christian be one a moderator, but I doubt that is going to happen.

Do you mean someone that is of a Christain faith, or a devout bible thumper? My guess is the latter. I don't know of a faster way to completely kill a Forum than to grant editing power to a thumper. No thanks. Keep your religions in your church. I had more than my fill during 12 years of parochial schools. During my younger years as an altar boy, I had one of the most important jobs during the Mass....I got to ring the bell & let everyone know when GOD was there. Fortunately, I had enough sense to walk away from that can of worms nearly 40 years ago.

Originally posted by es347fan
Do you mean someone that is of a Christain faith, or a devout bible thumper? My guess is the latter. I don't know of a faster way to completely kill a Forum than to grant editing power to a thumper. No thanks. Keep your religions in your church. I had more than my fill during 12 years of parochial schools. During my younger years as an altar boy, I had one of the most important jobs during the Mass....I got to ring the bell & let everyone know when GOD was there. Fortunately, I had enough sense to walk away from that can of worms nearly 40 years ago. So who, on this forum would you consider a thumper? Would you consider me a thumper? Jere? UncoolDuck? DaveTooner?


Name one if I havent already done so. This will be interesting.

Originally posted by DrewM


The only people not allowed to post are the Irish. Just kidding.

Irish? ::her blue/green eyes flash with the rage of a Highlander:: I will have you know that I am Irish.... What's wrong with the Irish?

Originally posted by astrapol2
I don't remember reading hateful comments on anyone from the mods (Drew has sometimes been quite rude against french people though, but he's forgiven !)


::looks around for Drew, being's her surname is Dupont and she is also half French:: LMAO

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I find it humorous that you anti-christian people try to defend yourselves. Just admit that you have absolutely NO respect for the religious beliefs of Christians, regardless of how much respect they give to you. In fact, you look at Christians as weak minded, bigoted sheep. The very mention of our belief system gets you hot under the collar. Just admit it.

This got me a little hot under the collar not the mention of your belief systems. We do not feel the need to defend ourselves one bit, as a matter of fact I believe that we are more open to your ideals whereas you seem closed minded to even considering the possibility that there is no God. I'm not asking you to NOT believe in God... however you can't understand why I don't hold as much weight with him as you do. However I am not sure what I believe... but I maintain again that I will not be a Sheep... I mean isn't that a little self-disrespecting... to refer to yourselves as sheep..... being led to the slaughter?

Originally posted by HaVoK
That is not neccessarily a religious belief. I, for one, find homosexual relationships unnatural. Against natures plan, as well as God's law. I dont think of you as nasty or disgusting because of your sexual preference, just wrong.






OK.... I got something to say about this.... Are you saying Sodomy is wrong as well? What's the difference if a man and woman engage in sexual relations the same way two men would?

Originally posted by philosophytara
However I am not sure what I believe... but I maintain again that I will not be a Sheep... I mean isn't that a little self-disrespecting... to refer to yourselves as sheep..... being led to the slaughter? You mean, as opposed to posting a picture of yourself on an open forum showing half your tits, knowing most of the people posting on that particular thread are under 18? I would call that disrepectful and "self-disrespecting", but then again, what do i know?

Originally posted by philosophytara
OK.... I got something to say about this.... Are you saying Sodomy is wrong as well? What's the difference if a man and woman engage in sexual relations the same way two men would? Yep, IMO, sodomy is wrong. You dont reproduce through your ass do you? However, in our society, this is acceptable, and if you do it in the privacy of your own home, its really none of my business.

Originally posted by HaVoK
You mean, as opposed to posting a picture of yourself on an open forum showing half your tits, knowing most of the people posting on that particular thread are under 18? I would call that disrepectful and "self-disrespecting", but then again, what do i know?

::laughs:: apparantly you have trouble talking to women, and perhaps Sexy women make you uncomfortable... there is absolutely nothing wrong with Clevage.

Originally posted by philosophytara
::laughs:: apparantly you have trouble talking to women, and perhaps Sexy women make you uncomfortable... there is absolutely nothing wrong with Clevage. We're talking. Either you are wrong on your assessment of me, or you're not very sexy. I'll let you make your own decision.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Yep, IMO, sodomy is wrong. You dont reproduce through your ass do you? However, in our society, this is acceptable, and if you do it in the privacy of your own home, its really none of my business.

Ok is Oral sex wrong too? and if they are wrong why does it feel so good. Sodomy has been practiced and accepted since The beginning of Ancient Egypt, and there are many examples of it being accepted in Society. Take for instance the painter Carrivaggio....


Oh maybe you will like this picture better, the first one didn't quite have my tit's showing enough.

Originally posted by HaVoK
We're talking. Either you are wrong on your assessment of me, or you're not very sexy. I'll let you make your own decision.

how about we take a poll ::smiles:: BTW if the moderators didn't like it they would take it down.... So what is your problem with the female body?

Originally posted by HaVoK
You mean, as opposed to posting a picture of yourself on an open forum showing half your tits, knowing most of the people posting on that particular thread are under 18? I would call that disrepectful and "self-disrespecting", but then again, what do i know?

Have I been disresptfull too other people, because I don't believe showing off my "ASSetts" is disrespectful at all. Hell... I'm a nudist most of the time weather permitting.

Originally posted by philosophytara
Ok is Oral sex wrong too? and if they are wrong why does it feel so good. Sodomy has been practiced and accepted since The beginning of Ancient Egypt, and there are many examples of it being accepted in Society. Take for instance the painter Carrivaggio....


Oh maybe you will like this picture better, the first one didn't quite have my tit's showing enough. Good lord, you gonna ask me which side I dress to next?:) As I said in the other post, what other people do in the privacy of their own homes is none of my business.


You're mighty proud of those things, arent ya? Turn you on knowing a bunch of 13 and 14 year olds are having their way with you, benefit of this wonderful thing called the internet?

Originally posted by philosophytara
how about we take a poll ::smiles:: BTW if the moderators didn't like it they would take it down.... So what is your problem with the female body? You're trying in a very ham handed fashion to turn this into my problem. I love the female body. I just dont think a real woman should feel the need to show a bunch of pre pubescent teens half her tits.

Originally posted by HaVoK



You're mighty proud of those things, arent ya? Turn you on knowing a bunch of 13 and 14 year olds are having their way with you, benefit of this wonderful thing called the internet?

They are going to see it somewhere, and BTW my pictures are perfectly legal... no nipples are showing. And actually Yeah.. I'm an exhibitionist. why does it bother you so much... ::laughs:: I'm getting a kick out of this.

Originally posted by philosophytara
They are going to see it somewhere, and BTW my pictures are perfectly legal... no nipples are showing. And actually Yeah.. I'm an exhibitionist. why does it bother you so much... ::laughs:: I'm getting a kick out of this. Well im glad I brought you so much enjoyment this evening. But alas, I have to get up in a couple hours. I hope you and your two buddies enjoy your time here at Allforums. You seem like a very interesting person.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Well im glad I brought you so much enjoyment this evening. But alas, I have to get up in a couple hours. I hope you and your two buddies enjoy your time here at Allforums. You seem like a very interesting person.

My two buddies? who might that be? I don't have any friends or enemies I dislike everyone equally.

Originally posted by philosophytara
My two buddies? who might that be? I don't have any friends or enemies I dislike everyone equally. About as keen as a rock too, i see. You're gonna be real popular.

Originally posted by HaVoK
About as keen as a rock too, i see. You're gonna be real popular.

I'm sorry for a person who was so disgusted with the fact that I am buxom I didn't expect a vile comment like that out of your mouth... and If you feel that I am intellectually inferior, I assure you then that is to my advantage. I guess I don't have to worry about meeting your level of expectations.

HaVoK sez:
"So who, on this forum would you consider a thumper? Would you consider me a thumper? Jere? UncoolDuck? DaveTooner?


Name one if I havent already done so. This will be interesting."

Without naming names, for me, it's anyone who continually tries to tell others what the Almighty thinks about daily life. Bullshit. They've no more clue than my cat has regarding the Almighty's wishes, assuming there are any. There's a Bible, written 2 millenia past - a much edited, many times re-written series of tales from particular time, and that's about it.

Originally posted by es347fan
HaVoK sez:
"So who, on this forum would you consider a thumper? Would you consider me a thumper? Jere? UncoolDuck? DaveTooner?


Name one if I havent already done so. This will be interesting."

Without naming names, for me, it's anyone who continually tries to tell others what the Almighty thinks about daily life. Bullshit. They've no more clue than my cat has regarding the Almighty's wishes, assuming there are any. There's a Bible, written 2 millenia past - a much edited, many times re-written series of tales from particular time, and that's about it. Thank you sir. And I agree with that.

Without naming names, for me, it's anyone who continually tries to tell others what the Almighty thinks about daily life. Bullshit. They've no more clue than my cat has regarding the Almighty's wishes, assuming there are any. There's a Bible, written 2 millenia past - a much edited, many times re-written series of tales from particular time, and that's about it.

Its comments like this that make Christians feel you hate us or at least strongly dislike. It is obvious from this post that you have absolutely no respect for our beliefs and it also makes it obvious that you look down on us intellectually for believing what we do.

Hate? No. I've not felt the emotion "hate" for decades. It's much easier to simply ignore - until such time they really impose upon my space. At those times, I'll respond in a manner I feel is appropriate to the situation at hand.

Originally posted by es347fan
Hate? No. I've not felt the emotion "hate" for decades. It's much easier to simply ignore - until such time they really impose upon my space. At those times, I'll respond in a manner I feel is appropriate to the situation at hand.

But you don't deny this:

It is obvious from this post that you have absolutely no respect for our beliefs and it also makes it obvious that you look down on us intellectually for believing what we do.

Right? That's true, is it not?

Cranking yourself into a real tizzy aren't you?

Not sharing in your beliefs is not disrespecting them. If you feel intellectually inferior to me, that's entirely your issue. Go get yourself some therapy & more education. Maybe then, you'll feel better.

Not sharing in your beliefs is not disrespecting them. If you feel intellectually inferior to me, that's entirely your issue. Go get yourself some therapy & more education. Maybe then, you'll feel better.

Could you not be a disrespectful smartass for one post? I never said I thought I was intellectually inferior to you, and I never said that not sharing a belief was disrespecting it. I said that the tone of your posts gives the impression that you see Christians as intellectually inferior and you have no respect for our beliefs.

A " ... disrespectful smartass..."? Hardly. You're making mountains out of molehills. All I have to do is drop a few comments here & there, sit back, and watch you go off like fireworks over Niagara Falls. You need a reality check there young fellow.

Although ES hardly needs defending here, I myself have never felt as though he looked down on me because of my religious beliefs.
I will say that we dont see eye to eye on religion, but I've never felt inferior or superior because of those differences.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Although ES hardly needs defending here, I myself have never felt as though he looked down on me because of my religious beliefs.
I will say that we dont see eye to eye on religion, but I've never felt inferior or superior because of those differences.

You're telling me that you don't detect any hint of disrespect/disdain in his comments about Christianity? You aren't very perceptive.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
You're telling me that you don't detect any hint of disrespect/disdain in his comments about Christianity? You aren't very perceptive. I pick up on his contempt of some of the ideas that people come up with, but never any direct contempt towards my faith.

hehe
i think it's great

cant we all just get along! this forum is like a bar fight with brawls going on in every corner and every room of the building! I come in to get the latest forum news and this is what I find!? you should all be ashamed of yourselves. good moderators would have stopped this long ago, not joined in! :D

Just ain't nuttin like a good ole bar brawl. Have another drink on the house & enjoy the floor show. \=/, \=/

Originally posted by es347fan
Do you mean someone that is of a Christain faith, or a devout bible thumper? My guess is the latter. I don't know of a faster way to completely kill a Forum than to grant editing power to a thumper. No thanks. Keep your religions in your church. I had more than my fill during 12 years of parochial schools. During my younger years as an altar boy, I had one of the most important jobs during the Mass....I got to ring the bell & let everyone know when GOD was there. Fortunately, I had enough sense to walk away from that can of worms nearly 40 years ago.

I mean someone of Christian faith. Heck, even a believer.

Whats the difference than what you would call a bible thumper being a moderator....than the Admin being Athiest, and atleast three of the four Moderators being Athiest?

How fair does this really sound?

A believer in whom or what, exactly?