Timeline of what I saw happen:

25 minutes -- Bush is missing the mark in several instances, but stronger in his responses, while Kerry was being abrasive and unspecific.

55 minutes -- Kerry is clearly rattled by the directness of Bush's responses. Bush won the foreign policy debate.

1 hour 10 minutes -- Anyone notice how Kerry claims to have a plan for everything, but he never gives us ANY specifics? GO FIGURE.

1 hour 30 minutes -- Every time I hear John Kerry say "true global coalition", I want to say, "France, Germany, Russia and China doesn't constitute a "true global" coalition."

I love the spin the media is putting on the numbers President Bush garnered after the debate concluded. Who the hell are they kidding - Bush wiped the floor with Kerry's limp torso. The assessment of who won this debate by both parties couldn't be mutually exclusive, because from a strict point by point scoring of the debate, show me where Kerry laid the smack-down on Bush. It just didn't happen, but because President Bush performed so badly in the eyes of the general public in the previous debate, all Bush had to do to win was exceed his performance in the first disputation, while going toe to toe with Kerry without stumbling. Bush did that, and therefore he won. Kerry helped him do so by not having a plan, and sounding like fool while outwardly professing his pie-in-the-sky ideals as a method to achieve his “ultimate” goal. What a joker...

What do you mean no plan. If elected, he will consult JohnKerry.com for all the answers.

No kidding...:)

Prae - I kept a running blog thru this debate. I will post it when I get home. I saw this debate very differently than you.

bush would have to get his head out of it first !

funny how everyone thinks that kerry sounds like a fool talking about a plan........what in hell is bush's plan ? to kill all of our soldiers off fighting this bullshit, until........what ? he doesnt have a plan EITHER !!

bush would have to get his head out of it first !
Out of Kerry's ass? :eek:

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Out of Kerry's ass? :eek: WHATEVER ASS ITS IN !:D

Bush forgot to tell Silvio Burlusconi that his new name is Sergio.

ROTF

Dop

Well, korg, president Bush does have a plan, so if you're still interested in what it is, and you've got a few days to research it (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/usbudget/blueprint/budtoc.html), why don't you? Some of it's vague, but none of it is nearly as ambiguous as Kerry's so-called proposal.

CNN showed a poll today that said that by a 15% margin, people thought Kerry did better in the second debate. What's even better is that something around 52% of those polled thought Kerry would win the third debate too.

I would venture to say that CNN has a viewer base that's probably at least 15% more proned to being liberal than conservative. Now you and I both know that's just a guess, but I'd be willing to bet that it's a damn good one. Who do you think takes those polls? I saw the debate with my own two eyes, and Bush leveled Kerry. The first debate was arguably a loss because Bush didn't speak; he looked flustered, angry, and was short on retorts. I think it’s probably very difficult to listen to an unprincipled man when you, yourself, are one.

Um this wasn't an online CNN poll (Kerry OWNED in the online polls.) This was a CNN/Gallup/USA Today scientific poll.

I wonder what was so "scientific" about it?

It's gotta be more scientific than "handed him his ass."

Opinions are nice and everything, but if we're just going to spew unfounded post-debate partisan rhetoric straight from DNC and RNC press releases, why bother?

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Opinions are nice and everything, but if we're just going to spew unfounded post-debate partisan rhetoric straight from DNC and RNC press releases, why bother?
Exactly.

I happen to believe the debate was a wash. Both candidates were roughly equal in their performance, though Bush had a few peculiarities in his speech which may have cost him a bit ("There's rumors on the internets", etc.).

These aren't really debates. You have a question from a moderator and the candidates spew their answers that they had pre-programmed into their noggins. They miss so many opportunities to correct each other, it becomes obvious that they are barely listening to each other.

Its more of a question and answer session, a debates ugly cousin....however, more so this 2nd debate than the first, they did come after each other.

There were more direct addresses to one another, rather than just talking in a third person, cheap shot, kind of way.

though Bush had a few peculiarities in his speech which may have cost him a bit ("There's rumors on the internets", etc.).

If anyone decides to not vote for Bush based on that statement, they must be off their rocker.

If anyone does not vote for Kerry, because of these lying "flip flopping" claims, they are "off their rocker" Because lord-knows, admitting you are wrong and changing your mind based on new information is SO bad!

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Well, korg, president Bush does have a plan, so if you're still interested in what it is, and you've got a few days to research it (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/usbudget/blueprint/budtoc.html), why don't you? Some of it's vague, but none of it is nearly as ambiguous as Kerry's so-called proposal. prae, i have no doubt in my mind that he THOUGHT he had plan. its like , he planned to take the I-75, but when he got there, it was under construction, and he had to go a route he just didnt know. as he was going for " strike first, strike hard, no mercy SIR !, he found himself saying, " hey, i didnt know these guys were gonna fight back so damn hard ". hey man, it wasnt his fault that this shit happened under his watch, that's just some bad ass luck, but the way he chose to deal with it, now leaves us there, and we cant get out. in the mean time, family members, who some people refer to as the " hey, they knew what they were getting when they signed up " crew, are dying and this MAY not have been the way to go about it. republicans know, in their hearts, that if this president were dem, they would be saying the same thing. sometimes , its better to be wise than partisan. bush has no plan, and neither does kerry.....kerry just hopes he can be different than bush, and glad he wasnt president when this shit went down.

the main thing i disagree with is his constant change of stance on the war in iraq.....its a pretty good indicator that he was going off of what his advisors were telling him was a good stance at the time, and he wasn't standing strong.

if he would have just made up his mind and stuck with a certain position.....okay, id give him some respect. But he took the spineless route.

Another thing i laugh at kerry about is that he says "i have a plan" but then doesnt give ANY details. yea senator....we ALL have a plan.....lol

by the way, VOTING mostly democrat, in my life, doesn't`take away the fact that i didnt think that bush was doing a bad job as pres right before this. nothing he did, really affected me yet, so to me, the jury was still out........but every man has his fight, and every man meets his match....i think that when this whole iraq thing is over, he would' have met his match. i dont want kerry in, really, i think that this is bush's mess to clean up, and any dem would just be a fall guy...........my opinion !

Korg, that was really good and fair, and I think even profound in parts. I get in a mood like that about once a month and then I get mad again and it goes away.

Originally posted by Decka
the main thing i disagree with is his constant change of stance on the war in iraq.....its a pretty good indicator that he was going off of what his advisors were telling him was a good stance at the time, and he wasn't standing strong.

if he would have just made up his mind and stuck with a certain position.....okay, id give him some respect. But he took the spineless route.

Another thing i laugh at kerry about is that he says "i have a plan" but then doesnt give ANY details. yea senator....we ALL have a plan.....lol no man, if your talking about kerry, this is what happened........every democrat was scared of being called unamerican. when bush first started laying the foundation, he was wording it as, if you didnt agree with this war, you were against america. we, as people, are like sponges. we believe anything we're told. so the first thing we did was say, " yeah, man, if you dont agree, how can you be american. they just attacked us, killed thousands of americans, you have to support america " . well, since polititians only get their job if WE VOTE THEM IN , it stood to reason, that they didnt want to seem unamerican. problem is, if i support this shit, and it doesnt go right, im stuck.......well, thats exactly what happened. they wimped out to the cause and not the wisdom. now they gotta pay the price. dems are wimps........but i'd rather have them, than bush !

Originally posted by Brooks
I get in a mood like that about once a month and then I get mad again and it goes away. lmao......i hear ya brooks. and thanx

Opinions are nice and everything, but if we're just going to spew unfounded post-debate partisan rhetoric straight from DNC and RNC press releases, why bother?

This thread didn't string from any press release. It is my opinion, and my opinion alone. If I offended you with sharing my perspective in a manner in which you find abrasive, oh well, sorry. I didn't think our sole purpose here was to just share facts, but opinions as well.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
This thread didn't string from any press release. It is my opinion, and my opinion alone. If I offended you with sharing my perspective in a manner in which you find abrasive, oh well, sorry. I didn't think our sole purpose here was to just share facts, but opinions as well.

You didn't offend me. But "handed him his ass" is just so far from any reality it seems pointless to even bother posting. Quayle and Gore might have handed Stockdale his ass, but that's about as decisive as any debate win has been.

the funniest part of the debate was when pompous Kerry claimed to have the ability to judge peoples income by sight. he said he was pretty sure from looking around only 3 people in the room would be affected by kerrys tax increase, himself, bush, and "sorry charlie, you too". how the hell does he know someone in the room doesnt make more then 200,000 dollars a year? just another sign f his arrogance, and inability to believe that normal people can make 200,000 dollars a year in small buisnesses. In kerrys plan, only mega rich CEO's in pin striped suits will get a tax increase. the small buisness owner busting his ass 7 days a week, maybe owning a few stores and cracking 200K a year will too senator.

Hey, you're back mudwhistle, err, I mean Trav. I guess that was Shamans attempt to get on your good side, huh? Btw, I totally agree with your post. Kerry's arrogance is astounding.

Both candidates walk out smiling and shake hands. They exchange what looks like a few pleasantries. My guess is it went….
Bush “you pinko, commie, liberal, I’m gonna kick your ass”.
Kerry: “You lying, brainless, neocon, I’ll wipe the floor with you”.
All this done while shakinhg hands and smiling at the audience.

NOTES:

Kerry has new sound bites.

Bush is coming cross more presidential and less wacko.

Bush quote: “only enough forces to get the job done” I hate limited engagement, it gets our troops killed.

Bush looks like he is going to pop a hemorrhoid when Kerry speaks, tying really hard not to look aggravated and impatient.

Bush shot down the moderator, interrupting him and talking over him. Bullied the mod into giving him more time. Bad form.

Bush has said “working hard” or “it’s hard work” multiple times. Keep a running total …

Bush is much more comfortable in this setting.

Bush as much as called Canada’s FDA useless. Insinuating that they sell untested and unregulated drugs. A lie.

Kerry had a good guote about fixing Medicare and the beleaguered budget.

Bush still stumbling over words but getting better.

Bush talks about “liberals” . I’d like to hear his definition of a “liberal”.

Bush quote: “everybody got tax relief”. Get real, we know the stats.

Bush quote: “Not going to short change our troops in harms way”. Yeah right – that’s why we are having a "limited engagement."

Kerry looks very practiced.

Bush has bad body language.

Bush quote:”Is my time up yet?” DUH – can’t you see the lights?

Kerry has a better suit. They both need a better tie.

Question to bush:”How would you rate yourself on environmental issues?”. – Stuttering, …”um, I guess you’d say I am a better steward of the land”. This guy has no credibility on environmental issues.

Bush attempts a Joe blow from bumfuck, Kansas story. Doesn’t sound sincere. He just can’t do folksy.

Patriot act question. Kerry kicked ass.

Kerry did a lot of name dropping on the stem cell question. Will that fly? I doubt it.

Why is bush making ethical decisions for me?

Bush quote:”I will not allow personal opinion to enter into my choice of supreme justices." Give me a break. Bush blew this bad. We know he is led around by his far right born again christian beliefs and doesn’t accept any opinion that disagrees with him”. Kerry attacked him on that quote but was almost too polished.

Question about abortion funding. Kerry opened hard and strong. Bush opened with a nasty comment.

When asked if he made the right decision bush got defensive and didn’t answer the question.

Last statements:

Kerry : The pres didn’t live up to his own standards
Plan to win the peace
War as last resort
Allies support
Body armor and weapons
“we are strongest when we lead the world and we need a president whose judgement the wold trusts.

Bush: Repeated the old “first I voted for and the I voted against” sound bites taken out of context. SNORE!

Bush:”I know how these people think”. THESE PEOPLE? What a bigot.

”who can lead, who can get things done.”

They smiled at each other and shook hands again. It is so obvious that these two HATE each other.

bush said “working hard or hard work” at least 27 times (Started counting about 10 minutes in when I noticed it was being said a lot) . Get some new sound bites.

I’d have to say that Kerry won. But not by the landslide he did last time. He had more substance to his answers and was
succinct. Bush used the same old sound bites we have been listening to for six months. He just isn't credible. He spent most of the the ninety minutes slinging accusations and repeating slogans rather than telling us how he plans to get us out of the mess's he has gotton us into. Iraq, jobs, environment, medical costs, medicare, canadian drugs, etc.

Still think they ought to don speedo's and mud wrestle for the position. Better yet, let their wifes don bikinis and mud wrestle. Teresa would KO Laura.

Bush quote: “everybody got tax relief”. Get real, we know the stats.

who didnt get tax relief? I know I did. didnt you?

holy crap....John Kerry confuses the hell out of me LOL. I have seen so many stances on this freakin war said by him....its crazy.

sorry to get off topic...i just noticed Trav's sig

Originally posted by Travh20
the funniest part of the debate was when pompous Kerry claimed to have the ability to judge peoples income by sight. he said he was pretty sure from looking around only 3 people in the room would be affected by kerrys tax increase, himself, bush, and "sorry charlie, you too". how the hell does he know someone in the room doesnt make more then 200,000 dollars a year? just another sign f his arrogance, and inability to believe that normal people can make 200,000 dollars a year in small buisnesses. In kerrys plan, only mega rich CEO's in pin striped suits will get a tax increase. the small buisness owner busting his ass 7 days a week, maybe owning a few stores and cracking 200K a year will too senator. that was some dumb shit to say

Originally posted by korg
that was some dumb shit to say
Wow, so was that! One more chance: Next insult I see posted by you, and it shall be Bannedville, Population: You.

WHAT WAS SO DUMB ABOUT IT KORG?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Wow, so was that! One more chance: Next insult I see posted by you, and it shall be Bannedville, Population: You. NO BORG ! WHAT I MEANT BY THAT WAS THAT IT WAS DUMB FOR KERRY TO SAY THAT. GET OFF OF MY HORSE MAN, IM NO MORE INSULTING THAN SOME OTHER PEOPLE THAT YOU LET SAY ANY DAMN THING. IF YOU WANT ME OFF OF YOUR FORUM, I WILL LEAVE.....BUT AT LEAST BE FAIR ABOUT IT !

Originally posted by Travh20
WHAT WAS SO DUMB ABOUT IT KORG? NOT WHAT YOU SAID TRAVH......DAMN....WHAT KERRY SAID, I HEARD IT TOO, AND THOUGHT IT WAS A DUMB THING FOR HIM TO ASSUME....sorry if it came out wrong

OK, thats cool, no hard feelings

Originally posted by korg
NO BORG ! WHAT I MEANT BY THAT WAS THAT IT WAS DUMB FOR KERRY TO SAY THAT. GET OFF OF MY HORSE MAN, IM NO MORE INSULTING THAN SOME OTHER PEOPLE THAT YOU LET SAY ANY DAMN THING. IF YOU WANT ME OFF OF YOUR FORUM, I WILL LEAVE.....BUT AT LEAST BE FAIR ABOUT IT !
Okay, okay, sorry, it seemed like you were insulting Trav. Statement withdrawn. :flowers:

Oh, btw, see that key on the left side of you keyboard above Shift? Press it. That should toggle off the middle light in a row of three on the top right side of your keyboard. Thanks.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Okay, okay, sorry, it seemed like you were insulting Trav. Statement withdrawn. :flowers:

Oh, btw, see that key on the left side of you keyboard above Shift? Press it. That should toggle off the middle light in a row of three on the top right side of your keyboard. Thanks. no...capitals imply that im yelling, and thats what i meant

Originally posted by Decka
holy crap....John Kerry confuses the hell out of me LOL. I have seen so many stances on this freakin war said by him....its crazy.

sorry to get off topic...i just noticed Trav's sig

That was in 1997, see the date? Yeah, you forgot that. Again. He didn't have the UN Reports that came out after the fact. And when they did come out, Bush still manipulated the population into believing a false threat. Sorry guys, but your silly little attacks are so childish and don't add up.

you said saddam didnt have weapons after 96 OD, in case you didnt know 97 is after 96

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Decka
holy crap....John Kerry confuses the hell out of me LOL. I have seen so many stances on this freakin war said by him....its crazy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel the same way about bush.

First he was against restructuring medicare, then he was for it.

First he opposed the creation of a Homeland Security Department. Then he favored creation of a Homeland Security Department but oppose funding it.

First he opposed creation of independent 9/11 commission. Then he was for it. Then flipped back and refused to cooperate with the commission he appointed. Then said he supported giving the commission a 60 day extension while getting Hastert to oppose the extension!

Bush reversed his campaign pleddge on carbon dioxide emissions within months of taking office.

First he said gay marriage was an issue for the states during the campaign. Once the states started doing something, he flipped to wanting to make it a federal issue.

First he opposed budget deficits, then said they didn't matter when trying to pass his 2003 tax cut. Now he has run up the biggest deficit in history.

First he supports our military then he cuts combat pay.

First he favored a humble America (foreign policy)during the 2000 campaign, then declared "you are either with us or the enemy"

He opposed the McCain-Feingold bill during the campaign and then signed it.

First he was definitely going to call for a second U.N. vote and let the chips fall where they may. Then he didn't call for a second U.N. vote.

As governor of Texas he opposed an HMO Patients' Bill of Rights then after it passed over his veto he tried to claim credit for it on the 2000 campaign trail, but once in office he tried (successfully) to get it killed in the House, but indicated that he would sign it if it passed.

He favored free trade, but also steel tarrifs and the farm bill. All this in the past five years alone. Readers can probably think of more examples.

First he said Negotiating with North Korea was a failed Clinton tactic. Now he advocates negotiating with North Korea.

First he opposed increasing SEC scrutiny. Then flopped and now is for it.

First he preached keeping his hands off the Social Security lockbox. Then he decided it would be too profitable to do so and wants to privatise it.

First he said he would intervene militarily to "end" states that knowingly harbor terrorists and allow the spread of WMDs. Then he let Musharraf off with a pat on the back.

Bush sneered at Gore's small-scale solar-power incentives during the 2000 campaign, then his administration's energy task force dropped the idea into its May 2001 report.

First he warned Congress that he felt corporate reform legislation was too tough on Wall Street, then in 2002 Bush embraced a tough corporate reform bill.

First he said he was a Uniter, not a Divider. Then he divided the country by saying the constituion was the proper place to exlude rights from American citizens.

Jan 2002 Bush: I will not exploit Sept. 11 for political gains.
March 2004 Bush: Ads with WTC 4/5 burned out and firefighters carrying out body parts covered by a flag.

June 27, 2000: Bush Said He Would Work With "Friends In OPEC" To Help With Gas Prices, Use "Capital," To "Open The Spigot." When asked for a concrete example of a solution to high gas prices, Bush said, "I would work with our friends in OPEC to convince them to open up the spigot, to increase the supply. Use the capital that my administration will earn, with the Kuwaitis or the Saudis, and convince them to open up the spigot." [Bush press conference, 6/27/00] Then he starts a Jihad with their neigboring country.

First he calls for a $500 personal-exemption increase for families in his State of the Union address, Then he sends Congress a second proposal dropping that increase.

First he is for the clean water act, then he reverses it on arsenic levels in drinking water.

At the White House, Bush said, "In Africa, the disease clouds the future of entire nations... In the hardest hit countries of sub-Saharan Africa, as much as one-third of the adult population is infected with HIV, and 10 percent or more of the schoolteachers will die of AIDS within five years." He proposed "to make $500 million available" to prevent transmission of HIV from mother to children.
The President expects his project to prevent nearly 150,000 infant infections over the next five years. The problem is, there are about 800,000 children born with AIDS each year, according to the United Nations. That means the Bush initiative is aiming at helping less than 4 percent of this population. Moreover, $200 million of this supposedly "new" initiative was approved for use this year by Congress days before Bush's announcement. What he added was $300 million for this type of AIDS prevention in the following two years. Which averages out to $150 million a year - a cut from the current level.
It gets worse. At the start of June, several Republicans - notably, Sens. Bill Frist and Jesse Helms - were trying to raise overseas AIDS funding this year by $500 million. But the White House leaned on Frist and Helms and got the pair to slice that to $200 million.
Hours after making his disingenuous AIDS announcement, Bush attended a black-tie Republican fundraising extravaganza that collected $30 million or so, with a major portion coming from pharmaceutical companies.

Bush has claimed many times that he supports DEMOCRACY, but filed to support DEMOCRACY in Venezula and Haiti. In fact failing to support DEMOCRACY is the best that can be said of Bush. There are ample reasons to believe that Bush's administraton actually acted to undermine the DEMOCRATICLY elected leaders of Haiti and Venezuela. This from a President that was selected by the Supreme Court, instead of letting the peoples vote count.

Talk about flip flopping. The guy can't make up his mind. How many reasons has he given us to invade Iraq?
1. They have weapons of mass destruction.
2. They have chemical weapons.
3. They are harboring AlQuida terrorists
4. They are in league with AlQuida terrorists.
5. They are a threat to us.
6. To free the Iraqi people.

The first five of these reasons have been proven wrong. The last is his last ditch effort to justify rushing into a war of choice instead of chasing down the actual people who atacked us.

This guy is so confusing he even confuses himself.

here we go again, accuse bush of what kerry is accused of. liberals have no imagination.

Originally posted by Travh20
here we go again, accuse bush of what kerry is accused of. liberals have no imagination.

Typical neocon logic. "We said you did it first so we must be right". Did you even read the things your faux president has changed his mind on or flip flopped on? And you have the gall to say Kerry is a flip flopper? Those must be very think rose colored glasses.

you are trying to say two wrongs make a right. since kerry got the flip flopper tag, and for good reason might I add, that if bush did it too then kerry is in the clear, all is forgivin. you can try and persuade people all you want that bush is the real flip flopper, but kerry is the flip flopper, and always will be. bushs flip flops only came out as a response to kerrys. so, you are trying to make it seem OK for kerry to do it becasue bush has done it too.

Originally posted by Travh20
you are trying to say two wrongs make a right. since kerry got the flip flopper tag, and for good reason might I add, that if bush did it too then kerry is in the clear, all is forgivin. you can try and persuade people all you want that bush is the real flip flopper, but kerry is the flip flopper, and always will be. bushs flip flops only came out as a response to kerrys. so, you are trying to make it seem OK for kerry to do it becasue bush has done it too.

I never said a thing about Kerry being in the clear or all is forgiven. DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS! I was trying to point out to the simple mined neocons that useing flip flopping as a reason for not voting for someone is a pretty moot point at this time because BOTH of these candidates have made many changes in their positions. Throwing that out as if it is unique to Kerry is misleading and shows a very limited insight into your own candidate.

FYI -- Saying bushes flip flops are only a response to Kerry is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have heard in this forum. Bush was flip flopping four years ago when he ran for president and has been doing it ever since. Kerry didn't even start campaigning for the presidency untill late last year.

originally posted by Trav:
you are trying to say two wrongs make a right. since kerry got the flip flopper tag, and for good reason might I add, that if bush did it too then kerry is in the clear, all is forgivin. you can try and persuade people all you want that bush is the real flip flopper, but kerry is the flip flopper, and always will be. bushs flip flops only came out as a response to kerrys. so, you are trying to make it seem OK for kerry to do it becasue bush has done it too.

Wow, I've never seen anyone contradict themselves so fast as you just did. You start by accussing Echo of saying "two wrongs make a right" and "if Bush did it too then Kerry is in the clear". But then you excuse Bush's flip flops because they were "a response to Kerry's"???? Talk about 2 wrongs making a right...so Bush gets a pass because Kerry did it first??? (at least you thought he did it first until you read Bush's list of flip flops).

Also, while saying "Bush has done it too" and excusing "Bush's flip flops" (your words), you seem to forgoten that in the previous sentence you denied that Bush flip flopped when you said "try and persuade people all you want that bush is the real flip flopper, but kerry is the flip flopper". I'm getting dizzy, you are spinning so fast.

look, until kerry started doing it no one said anything about bush doing it, and i really doubt if kerry was not a flip flopper that bushs so called flip flops would even be a point. the fact is, if kerry wasnt accused of flip flopping, no one would have had to go out and try to make bush into one too to draw fire from kerry

look, until kerry started doing it no one said anything about bush doing it, and i really doubt if kerry was not a flip flopper that bushs so called flip flops would even be a point. the fact is, if kerry wasnt accused of flip flopping, no one would have had to go out and try to make bush into one too to draw fire from kerry

Of course not, thats because we realized that many times both Kerry and Bush are "changing their minds", not "flip flopping" when they find out more about an issue. I don't think it should be that big of an issue for either one, but since Bush was the first one to use the label as an attack, then we now have to go back and say Bush is a hypocrite for criticizing Kerry for things Bush does himself. You are right, Bush's flip flops would not be a point if he hadn't made flip flopping the main point of his campaing. Whats good for the goose... Pot calling kettle....

at least bush hasnt flip flopped on the most important issue in the presidential race.....iraq.

Kerry has proven evidence to have flip flopped MANY times.

Kerry has proven evidence to have flip flopped MANY times.

So has Bush...as you have seen.

you took that out of context..sorry....i was talking about the stance on iraq, the most important issue.

i was talking about the stance on iraq, the most important issue.

Some of Bush's flip-flops have been related to the war on terror, as well as some other very important issues such as medicare, Homeland Security, combat pay, North Korea...

Some of Bush's flip-flops have been related to the war on terror, as well as some other very important issues such as medicare, Homeland Security, combat pay, North Korea...

...and I forgot about the 87 billion. Bush was against the 1st version of that bill (the one Kerry was in favor of), but then Bush voted for the 2nd version (the one Kerry voted against).