The report released last week saying there were no WMDs said a lot of other things not being reported in our media. There is no way France, Russia or China were ever going to support us in Iraq. This is part of an article from Great Britain. You can see the whole thing at Scotsman.com

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Saddam and the French Connection

FRASER NELSON, FRASER NELSON AND JAMES KIRKUP

SADDAM HUSSEIN believed he could avoid the Iraq war with a bribery strategy targeting Jacques Chirac, the President of France, according to devastating documents released last night.

Memos from Iraqi intelligence officials, recovered by American and British inspectors, show the dictator was told as early as May 2002 that France - having been granted oil contracts - would veto any American plans for war.

Although they found no evidence that Saddam had made any WMD since 1992, they found documents which showed the "guiding theme" of his regime was to be able to start making them again with as short a lead time as possible."

Saddam was convinced that the UN sanctions - which stopped him acquiring weapons - were on the brink of collapse and he bankrolled several foreign activists who were campaigning for their abolition. He personally approved every one.

To keep America at bay, he focusing on Russia, France and China - three of the five UN Security Council members with the power to veto war. Politicians, journalists and diplomats were all given lavish gifts and oil-for-food vouchers.

Tariq Aziz, the former Iraqi deputy prime minister, told the ISG that the "primary motive for French co-operation" was to secure lucrative oil deals when UN sanctions were lifted. Total, the French oil giant, had been promised exploration rights.

Iraqi intelligence officials then "targeted a number of French individuals that Iraq thought had a close relationship to French President Chirac," it said, including two of his "counsellors" and spokesman for his re-election campaign.

They even assessed the chances for "supporting one of the candidates in an upcoming French presidential election." Chirac is not mentioned by name.

A memo sent to Saddam dated in May last year from his intelligence corps said they met with a "French parliamentarian" who "assured Iraq that France would use its veto in the UN Security Council against any American decision to attack Iraq."

However, the ISG uncovered millions of pages of documents and, after interviewing scores of captured Iraqis - including Mr Aziz - the report lays out what it says is were plans to end the United Nations sanctions then start to acquire weapons.

Saddam, it says, even fooled his own military chiefs into believing that he had WMD. This was designed to deter uprising from rebel Iraqis, on whom he deployed mustard gas in 1988, and aggressors in the Middle East.

I knew it. I say we set a permanent trade embargo against France. I'd love to see their industry crumble and their people go hungry. God, this gets me HOT under the collar, and to imagine those self righteous, arrogant, pontificating, grab-asstic, egotistical, pretentious, cocky, vainglorious, snooty, windbags talking about us in a light that's unfavorable, absolutely blows my mind.

How quickly the french forget that if it wasn't for us they would be speaking german.

Yeah, but don't mention that, Echo, because others will be all too quick in reminding you that they "helped" us defeat the British when we were establishing our independence. What they fail to realize is that when France came to our aid, they only cared about the money they could make exploiting us. They, like the British, saw us as an opportunity to make money, and since then, always have waxed about how much they actually care for America because of their so-called contribution. When we helped them defeat the Germans, our motives were to stop a mad man from killing innocent people. We weren't looking for any type of financial cushioning, or burgeoning business opportunities. France is a country chalked full of self-serving assholes, pure and simple. Always has been, and always will be. What else can you expect from a country that has half of its parliament filled with communists?

Originally posted by The Praetorian
When we helped them defeat the Germans, our motives were to stop a mad man from killing innocent people.

I agree with all of what you said except the above part. Our actual reason for getting involved in WWII was because if we had allowed hitler to take over Europe, we would have had a forcible enemy to contend with. The extermination of Jews was put out as a reason for us to get involved, but the actual stratagy on a military level was to keep Europe from becoming united under an aggresive madman.

True, I did simplify the reason for our involvement, but the fact remains that our motives weren't financial. Theirs were, and always have been, but we're the ones they see as opportunistic, capitalistic, pigs. Oh the irony...

Originally posted by Echo2
I agree with all of what you said except the above part. Our actual reason for getting involved in WWII was because if we had allowed hitler to take over Europe, we would have had a forcible enemy to contend with. The extermination of Jews was put out as a reason for us to get involved, but the actual stratagy on a military level was to keep Europe from becoming united under an aggresive madman. stratagy aggresive prae.........where are you ?

You want to flame every thread, don't you? You're ass is going to get banned, stupid.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
self righteous, arrogant, pontificating, grab-asstic, egotistical, pretentious, cocky, vainglorious, snooty, windbags

talk about flaming !

Sorry, Astra, but those people have collectively pissed me off to the point where I even denounce my own French blood. And, yes, I am partially French.

Many years ago (about 40) my brother told me a joke.


What is the tallest army in the world?

The French army (holding his hands up in a surrender position).


There is something about the french that just makes you want to dislike them. It isn't just one thing either, it is the whole package. Maybe it is because they gave us mimes.

I also go mime hunting on occasion, Echo. Maybe we'll get a more favorable response with that joke than we did with the bum-hunting scenario...:D

I understand you can be against french decisions, policy or individuals. But to extend this to all french people is just meaningless. It's like saying all american people are blood thirsty cowboys who dreamed of invading Iraq to get it's oil - it just does not make sense. You know that french and american are not basically different from people of any country. Some are arrogant assholes, other are nice and kind people, some follow whatever their govt says, some are more cautious.

Now we can discuss the real issue of the thread.
I am certainly not going to defend the french people involved. The french govt tries to refute these accusations, because it embarrasses him. I personaly would like to see these people prosecuted quickly ! Pasqua, former police minister and quite close to the Chirac clan, is already accused of numerous offenses, including dealing weapons in war torn Angola, should rot in jail ! But this very smart guy used his position to gather compromising information about so many people in France (and not only) that many politicians prefer not to bother him.

There are only two things I can say in defense of my country :

1- I really don't believe the french position on Iraq was due to french economical interests in that country. Iraq in 2002 was nearly nothing in France commercial balance. That was nothing compared to the economic relations with the USA.

2- The CIA report is focused on countries which opposed the war. It omits to mention the names of british and US citizen who commited similar offenses.
" After phone calls to the US, Whitehall was told that, as the US was withholding the names of US citizens, it was extending the same courtesy to its ally"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1322705,00.html
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Originally posted by Echo2
How quickly the french forget that if it wasn't for us they would be speaking german.

How quickly we forget that if it wasn't for them we'd still be speaking english.

Hey Astra, when are you going to back off of the whole "America is there for the oil" bit?

I've been sitting over here waiting for all that oil money booty to just come pouring in to our coffers and for our gas prices to plummet, but for some reason, it's just not happening. Why is that??

How does this report affect some of Senator Kerry's foreign policy statements:

1. "I can get other countries to join us" it's not gonna happen

2. "He has isolated us" they were never going to join us

3. "We should have given sanctions more time" there were no sanctions. Certain "allies" were giving $$ for oil.

4. "The inspectors should have been given more time" they would have found nothing, which was part of Hussein's plan

5. "Wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" exactly what Hussein wanted the UN to convince us of.

Originally posted by Karankawa
Hey Astra, when are you going to back off of the whole "America is there for the oil" bit?

I've been sitting over here waiting for all that oil money booty to just come pouring in to our coffers and for our gas prices to plummet, but for some reason, it's just not happening. Why is that??

Sorry if I was not clear enough. My sentence about "bloodthirsty cowboys who want to get Iraq's oil" was intended to be an example of a stupid statement.
I don't believe american are neither stupid or bloodthirsty. About oil, here is my opinion :

- It was certainly not the only reason why Bush started this war. But it was an important issue, and still is. The fact that Iraq was harder to control, resulting in oil prices going up, just show that Bush was wrong on that issue too. But on the long term, Iraqi oil reserves are a strategic asset the USA are not ready to let go.

Excellent, I will be looking forward to the day when America gets cheap oil from Iraq, and then you can make a post telling me "I told you so."

You'll excuse me if I don't hold my breath, I hope.

The fact that Iraq was harder to control, resulting in oil prices going up, just show that Bush was wrong on that issue too.

I realize how anxious that you, Overdose, Vilepagan, and Echo are to pin oil concerns on Bush, but the reality is that demand is actually a much bigger reason why the price of oil is "high", not because of supply. Just so you know better next time you post, OPEC is producing very near its capacity at this time.

Sorry if I sound condescending, the party propaganda posts are just disgusting me these days. The % of ignorant posts is at an all time high, and you, monsieur, are not helping.

Karankawa stop putting words in my mouth. I’ve hardly brought up the Bush-Oil link. I’ve mentioned it, maybe once or twice. Stop fabricating ...

Sorry if I sound condescending, the party propaganda posts are just disgusting me these days. The % of ignorant posts is at an all time high, and you, monsieur, are not helping.

So, you’re saying you don’t conform to some sort of propaganda? It’s highly ironic, because in our last debate I effectively answered all your questions. Don’t call me ignorant...it's not becoming of you. And even Leper (who is mostly Republican) agrees with what I’ve been saying.

OK, Karankawa, you've heard my opinion on the oil issue and you've told me yours. Now can you tell me what in your opinion were the real motivations for this war ?