Really funny.

I will admit that Cheney did do slightly better at performing. Although Cheney could not defend the non-Al Queda connection, and the fact that Saddam did not have weapons. Nor the fact that millions more Americans have lost health care, jobs have been lost, the new jobs pay less, and that Iraq is chaos.

Apparently, Gatsby, you werent watching the same debate I was. I admit, Cheney did do a good job, however, laying waste to Edwards? That is a joke, and hardly merits thought to denounce it.

I feel that both did everything they could to give what their followers needed and wanted, but that it was Edwards by a long shot who reached out to the swing and soft voters.

Have you not watched the after reviews??? CNN agreed 100 with me, For Debating - TIE for Swing Voter - Edwards 4-0

Originally posted by Overdose
I will admit that Cheney did do slightly better at performing. Although Cheney could not defend the non-Al Queda connection, and the fact that Saddam did not have weapons. Nor the fact that millions more Americans have lost health care, jobs have been lost, the new jobs pay less, and that Iraq is chaos.

He did defend the Al Queda connection. Zarqawi, Abu Nidal, etc.

What made that such a disconnect is that Edwards kept repeating that Saddam wasn't connected to 9/11.

Edwards even lied and said that Cheney had contended that Saddam was involved in 9/11.

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
He did defend the Al Queda connection. Zarqawi, Abu Nidal, etc.
And that is reason enough to attack Iraq? Are you kidding me? Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and many other countries are far more linked to terrorism then Iraq. The 9/11 Panel said that Iraq had almost no connection to Al Queda. We are not fighting terrorism. Many other countries should have been picked before Iraq.

Bush Senior even said there was no exit strategy in Iraq. We don't have enough troops in Iraq, Iraq is chaos, and Saddam was no threat.

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
Edwards even lied and said that Cheney had contended that Saddam was involved in 9/11.
They implied it, when they went “9/11, Saddam has weapons!”

1 in 4 Americans still believe that Saddam was linked to 9/11. Where did they get that from? The Bush Administration mentioning Saddam, and 9/11 in speeches around this nation. Trying to connect the two, without exactly saying it. Nice try guys.

Another reason 1 in 4 think this....is the simple reason that we even went to war with them.

Sadly, a lot of Americans still do not know just how bad we messed up in going to Iraq, and that there was no reason to, nor was there a way out.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
Apparently, Gatsby, you werent watching the same debate I was. I admit, Cheney did do a good job, however, laying waste to Edwards? That is a joke, and hardly merits thought to denounce it.

I feel that both did everything they could to give what their followers needed and wanted, but that it was Edwards by a long shot who reached out to the swing and soft voters.

Have you not watched the after reviews??? CNN agreed 100 with me, For Debating - TIE for Swing Voter - Edwards 4-0

We must have been watching a different debate. I saw Edwards interrupt Cheney no less than 4 times verbally, angrily wad up a piece of paper in teh mic while Cheney was talking, and dodge questions LIKE CRAZY.

Why couldn't Edwards answer the Global Test question? He dodged it like the plague.

And Cheney pointed out that Edwards and Kerry claim to be for the middle class, yet once again missed a vote.

Then, Edwards admitted that HIS OWN PROFESSION was responsible for much of the problems with health care.

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
Why couldn't Edwards answer the Global Test question? He dodged it like the plague.

Wrong. He said that we as a nation will never give a veto to any other country. But that we need to lead strong alliances, and we need to be able to factually explain our reasons for what we are doing in the world.

If we can’t hold face in the world, we are lost as a nation. Yes, we can’t give them a veto. But we better make sure we make the right decisions.

The Iraq War was not the right decision. The reasons Bush gave the world were false and wrong.

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
And Cheney pointed out that Edwards and Kerry claim to be for the middle class, yet once again missed a vote.
And Bush is? Losing jobs? Raising the cost of medicine? Forcing millions more Americans to lose health insurance?

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
We must have been watching a different debate. I saw Edwards interrupt Cheney no less than 4 times verbally, angrily wad up a piece of paper in teh mic while Cheney was talking, and dodge questions LIKE CRAZY.

Why couldn't Edwards answer the Global Test question? He dodged it like the plague.

And Cheney pointed out that Edwards and Kerry claim to be for the middle class, yet once again missed a vote.

Then, Edwards admitted that HIS OWN PROFESSION was responsible for much of the problems with health care.

Your post is so deadly bias it is hard for me to breathe due to the Republican fumes it releases.

However, I will go through your little list, and hack it up for you.

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
We must have been watching a different debate. I saw Edwards interrupt Cheney no less than 4 times verbally, angrily wad up a piece of paper in teh mic while Cheney was talking, and dodge questions LIKE CRAZY.

You seen Edwards dodge questions? Ha. How many times did Cheny release his 30 second rebuttle? How many times did Edwards choose not to go into detail on topics that he disagreed with his running mate on (Cheney would not reply on the topic of homosexual marriage, only thanked Edwards for kind words), how many times did Edwards answer a question with, I cant answer that in 30 seconds?

After all this, you think you seed EDWARDS dodging questions?

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
Why couldn't Edwards answer the Global Test question? He dodged it like the plague.

He did? I could have sworn I seen him tell Mr. Cheney, that Senator Kerry would never veto Americas protection, that we should have given the UN inspectors time to actually do their job and to do it right, which would have allowed them to find out what we know now....which is that Iraq did not have WMD's.


Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
And Cheney pointed out that Edwards and Kerry claim to be for the middle class, yet once again missed a vote.

Perhaps they missed that vote because they were on the campaign trail, trying to establish national wide reforms for the middle class. Effective Health Care plans, education and social security reforms that arent costing record expenses.

Also, for the record, Cheney told him, that he guessed he probably wasnt there....Thats been a problem with this administration, guessing when they really dont know.



Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
Then, Edwards admitted that HIS OWN PROFESSION was responsible for much of the problems with health care.

Edwards said that there are too many frivilous law suits filed in this country and even outllines the tickets plan on how to rid the system of this.

He said, and I dont know how you could disagree with him, that people like the little girl who was injured by her pool, did have the right to sue and get what they deserve...but there are also ambulence chasers and dirty lawyers out there that need to be stopped.

I tended to think it was almost a draw - although early polls show 48 to 28 that Edwards won - a big margin.

There was some blatant lying by Cheney - especially when he said that he had never said there was a connection between Iraq and Al Queda - that is a patent lie. He said that on several occasions - one in particular on 'face the press' in Sept 2003

I thought Cheney's attacks on Edwards record was good - in fact it was pretty humourous at points.

Cheney made a good point about the VP could become the President. As much as I don't really like Cheney - I must say that Edwards is not really qualified to be President should Kerry croak (but having said that - Bush was hardly qualified either)

Wow, I can't believe you guys actually watched that whole debate. It was SO boring, especially compared to the Presidential debate. After about 40 minutes of the same repitition and dodging by both VP candidates, I finally gave up and turned to the baseball game. Then just as the debate ended, I turned on Fox News for the start of the analysis and the first thing I heard was that "most people probably lost interest in this thing and turned it off to watch the end of the game". Did I miss anything revealing in the 2nd half of the debate, or anything that is making you people claim one guy "laid waste" to the other, because it didn't happen in the first half.

It was pretty boring

DREW! You'e back at least.
We thought you had left the USA, hunted by Federal Reserve agents who prosecuted you for burning dollar bills.
Nice to read you again.

I watched the debate for about 15 minutes. I thought Cheney made a really good point about Zarqawi. The guy was in Iraq before the war, and he's in Iraq now. He's Al Qaeda. That's a pretty nice connection right there. Edwards had nothing to say about that.

Also, I found it interesting to hear Cheney explain why he thought that raising taxes for the $200,000+ crowd was a bad idea. He pointed out that small business file taxes individually and that they are responsible for 70% of new jobs. Penalizing small business would hurt new jobs. Again, Edwards had nothing to say about that.

Overall, I thought Cheney presented himself really well. He speaks really intelligently, and I actually would think that he would be a helluva candidate for president.

EDIT: Forgot one other good point that Cheny made: he pointed out that Saddam was rewarding the families of deceased suicide bombers in Palestine. I had forgotten about this act, which I thought at the time was deplorable. Cheney mentioned that the suicide bombings in Israel have dropped off dramatically since the Iraq war. Good point.

i dont think cheney "laid waste", kerry laid waste to bush....but cheney did win. now i know who the president of the united states really is ..he was rock solid, whether i agreed with him or not, he was strong, edwards, although talked well, talked like a polititian, that was the difference to me.....but now, on a funny note, dont cheney look like MR BURNS on the simpsons......." smithers, release the hounds"..........

Originally posted by Karankawa
I watched the debate for about 15 minutes. I thought Cheney made a really good point about Zarqawi. The guy was in Iraq before the war, and he's in Iraq now. He's Al Qaeda. That's a pretty nice connection right there. Edwards had nothing to say about that.

. alqaida was HERE ! does that make us supporters of terrorism ? linking a country to a guy , is not reason for war. as we see, there are many cells, and we havent attacked ANYONE ELSE !

"Your post is so deadly bias it is hard for me to breathe due to the Republican fumes it releases."

Jerejere, that's a pretty serious allegation you're making. If you can back this up, please let an administrator know someone is showing a bias in here.

"They implied it, when they went “9/11, Saddam has weapons!”

Overdose, you could be referring to Senator Kerry with this statement.

Originally posted by korg
alqaida was HERE ! does that make us supporters of terrorism ? linking a country to a guy , is not reason for war. as we see, there are many cells, and we havent attacked ANYONE ELSE !

He got treatment for his leg by one of Saddam's doctors.

Originally posted by DrewM
I tended to think it was almost a draw - although early polls show 48 to 28 that Edwards won - a big margin.

I agree. I'm kind of surprised at the poll numbers. Seemed pretty even to me.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
He got treatment for his leg by one of Saddam's doctors. you dont think one alqaida member went to a hospital in this country ? we dont and didnt know, who or where these guys come from. the only thing im saying is....war ? that is the reason ?, you mean to tell me that there is no one more connected to alqaida , than saddam. they said he had minimal contact compared to other countries that we are not touching. c'mon man. saudi, and iran has proven to be more in contact with them than saddam .

Cheney said the debate was th 1st time he had met Edwards - either he has absolutely no memory or he is a blatant liar. They met on the following occasions

On Feb. 1, 2001, the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event.

On April 8, 2001, Cheney and Edwards shook hands when they met off-camera during a taping of NBC's "Meet the Press," moderator Tim Russert said Wednesday on "Today."

On Jan. 8, 2003, the two met when the first-term North Carolina senator accompanied Elizabeth Dole to her swearing-in by Cheney as a North Carolina senator.

So - Cheney is clearly a liar. There is even a photo in the press today of them shaking hands in the past.

This is what bothers me about Cheney - he has no problem telling outrageous and easily disproven lies to suit his aims.

Lieing seems to come easy to both the president and the vice president.

Chenny does a good job of passing off his beliefs as truth, and most likely a lot of people fell for it last night. He is a practiced liar and thus looked good in the debate, but when you check the facts he falls short. They both came across well, but because of the blatant lieing by Chenny, Edwards clearly won. The polls show it.

Loved it when Edwards listed Chenny's voting record. Loved it when Edwards listed all the flip flopping this administration has done.

This adminsistration is falling apart from it's own lies.

Originally posted by Brooks
Jerejere, that's a pretty serious allegation you're making. If you can back this up, please let an administrator know someone is showing a bias in here.

Telling somone in politics they are being bias isnt a serious allegation, lol.

Some people cant help it.

Originally posted by DrewM
Cheney said the debate was th 1st time he had met Edwards - either he has absolutely no memory or he is a blatant liar. They met on the following occasions

On Feb. 1, 2001, the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event.

On April 8, 2001, Cheney and Edwards shook hands when they met off-camera during a taping of NBC's "Meet the Press," moderator Tim Russert said Wednesday on "Today."

On Jan. 8, 2003, the two met when the first-term North Carolina senator accompanied Elizabeth Dole to her swearing-in by Cheney as a North Carolina senator.

So - Cheney is clearly a liar. There is even a photo in the press today of them shaking hands in the past.

This is what bothers me about Cheney - he has no problem telling outrageous and easily disproven lies to suit his aims.


Very Nice Post Drewm...

Where did you find the dates?

Drew! Hey buddy! How have ya been?

"Cheney said the debate was th 1st time he had met Edwards - either he has absolutely no memory or he is a blatant liar. They met on the following occasions"

Since that was VP Cheney's best line of the night, I think Senator Edwards would have definitely pounced on it had he remembered any of the meetings (he is pretty quick on his feet). I would say neither of them found the meetings memorable since they both seemed to have forgotten. Calling the statement a lie is a stretch.

Originally posted by Brooks
Calling the statement a lie is a stretch.

:confused: Um, how is that a stretch. He happened and he said it didnt. That would be a lie.

If neither of them remembered and VP said it didn't happen, where is the intent? A mistaken fact (which they both apparently believed) is different from a lie. You knew the difference, you're messing with me, right?

Yahoo calls Cheney a liar -- just like his boss and everyone else in the administration. Liars all ... er and uh ... chickenhawks too.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=4&u=/ap/20041006/ap_on_el_pr/debate_first_meeting

ROTFLMAO

Dop

Come on - Cheney had that line planned - it was no spur of the moment comment.

I don't know why Edwards didn't respond to that - maybe because arguing over that would look petty - but regardless - I think it's a very high likelyhood that Cheney tried to pull a fast one on that and spill out such a blatant lie over something so silly.

He lied about what he'd said in the past on Iraq - that is a much bigger deal, but even so.

Putting all partisanship aside, would someone intentionally lie about something so easily disprovable within minutes after the debate? Senator Edwards clearly didn't remember it either. You don't let your opponent's best line sit out there because you don't want to be petty.

Well you'd like to hope that it wasn't just a blatant lie - maybe it was a mistake, but it doesn't sit right with me.

The alternative is that Cheney is a scatterbrain old fool. Neither scenario is that good a reflection on his fitness for the job. Old fool or blatant liar - take your pick.

If you are going to make a personal attack like that in front of the American people then you damn sure better have your facts straight.

CBS poll says JE won the debate as the kerry maching forges on.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/05/opinion/polls/main647648.shtml

Dop

Every anti-Bush post eventually, falls back on "lie", "lies", "liars" or "lying". Call Cheney what you want, but stupid isn't on the list. A blatant lie would easily be uncovered quickly. He's not that stupid.

And if he forgot because he's old, what's Edwards's excuse.

i think that he was just piling up on the "senator gone " remark. i mean, he drove home that edwards was "never there . so to me, he just does like lawyers do, say something really damning in court, that turns out not to be legal to say, the judge sustains the objection, but the damage is done already !!

CBS is the only major outlet claiming Senator Edwards won that debate. But it must be true, Dan Rather wouldn't lie.

Korg, as usual, that's a good point, but the average courtroom attorney isn't knowingly speaking to 60 million fact checkers.

wrong Brooks ...

FOX, CNN -- all of 'em have John Edwards as the winner.

In fact, I can't find a major poll that picks Cheney.

LOL

Dop

Originally posted by Brooks
Putting all partisanship aside, would someone intentionally lie about something so easily disprovable within minutes after the debate? Senator Edwards clearly didn't remember it either. [quote]

He didn't respond because it would look petty and the facts would come out after the debate anyway-proving chenny to be a liar. Edwards is smart. Why waste time arguing over a stupid lie or calling someone a liar. All it would do is make him look mean. He is well aware that the lie would become fodder for the pundits for the next week and then everyone would know the truth. Smart move-ignore it and save your time to argue the current events that are important.


[quote]You don't let your opponent's best line sit out there because you don't want to be petty.

It is sad that a lie was chennys "best line".

Wait a minute, are we talking about pundits or polls. If polls are saying that Senator Edwards won, I'm not surprised. These internet "polls" have no credibility. In fact certain newspapers around the country got positive letters about Kerry's performance before the debate started. Here's what I got in my E-Mail from the DNC:
************** ***************


Take Action
Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the difference.

1. Vote in Online Polls
National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

AOL: http://www.aol.com
CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
Wall Street Journal: http://www.wsj.com/
LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/
Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/
CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/
Akron Beacon-Journal: http://www.ohio.com/
Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/
Orlando Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/
Philadelphia Inquirer: http://www.philly.com/
South Florida Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/
And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls.

Make sure swing voters know why you support John Kerry by sharing your thoughts on message boards in target states:

Seattle Post-Intelligencer & Seattle Times
Arizona Republic
San Jose Mercury News / Contra Costa Times
Philadelphia Inquirer/Daily News
San Diego Union-Tribune
Kansas City Star
Detroit News
Las Vegas Review-Journal
St. Petersburg Times
Cleveland Plain Dealer
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Orlando Sentinel
Oregonian
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Grand Rapids Press
Orange County Register
New Orleans Times-Picayune
Akron Beacon Journal
2. Write a Letter to the Editor
Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Edwards presented an optimistic vision for the next four years, put it in your letter. If you feel Dick Cheney failed to explain the last four years of failed policies, put it in your letter.

Click here to write your letter.

3. Call Radio and TV Stations
TV and radio coverage immediately following the debate is where much of the spin is cemented. Make sure you call radio and TV stations to tell them what you thought.

Find shows in your area on our media website.

************ ***********

I give them credit for getting their spin out, but on the other hand, don't fall for the results.

Originally posted by Brooks
Korg, as usual, that's a good point, but the average courtroom attorney isn't knowingly speaking to 60 million fact checkers. and thats a damn good point brooks

Originally posted by Brooks
Putting all partisanship aside, would someone intentionally lie about something so easily disprovable within minutes after the debate? Senator Edwards clearly didn't remember it either. You don't let your opponent's best line sit out there because you don't want to be petty. i think your right, because cheney said that with venom, and if edwards had a comeback, i believed he would have used it, he caught almost everything else. i really thought cheneys digs were clever, and the fact that he would shoot the dig, and not rebut edwards rebuttal, made him look more credible to me....although i believe i know better, but, if i didnt, cheney would have convinced me last night......i thought he was more clever than forthcoming with info.

He didn't have to comeback at that lie. He knew full well that the press and his party 's warroom would catch the lie and it would be all over the papers this morning. Why waste time arguing over it.

Chenny mumbled the same old sorry story about how well the war is going and how somehow 9-11 was connected to Saddam. He and bush are so "resolute" with their thinking that they can't allow new facts to enter into their thinking and re-adjust it. It would screw up their "resoluteness".

Cheney never said that Saddam had ties to the 9/11 attacks. Give me a quote to prove me wrong.

i cant beleive people dont see that Cheney said he had "never met edwards before" to drive home his point......its not as if he has never SEEN him before, but it was a jab to edwards jaw that made the crowd go "ooooo"

As far as political jabs go....Cheney won. Edwards only had one good jab, and that was a poster-like slogan. He looked at Cheney and said "I dont think we can take another 4 years".....LOL. Cheney used actually facts as jabs.

Another thing......John Edwards kind of scares me. It's so BLATANTLY obvious that he puts on this persona when he's in front of the nation, he SOOOO reminds me of Al Gore. I can almost GUARANTEE that the john edwards you saw on tv last night is NOTHING like the john edwards that his family sees or that his friends see. My opinion is that Edwards fronts WAYY too much...and while it may get him simpleton votes, it wont convince me to vote for him. At least Cheney was himself.

And i find it kinda humorous that Edwards would be leading in ANY poll...if you paid attention to values and not Edwards exaggerated facial expressions.....my opinion is Cheney won, but hey i guess the people are looking for a phony rather than someone who is himself.....tiddlywinks.

CBS is the only major outlet claiming Senator Edwards won that debate. But it must be true, Dan Rather wouldn't lie.

What do you mean "CBS claimed Edwards won"? Did the whole network, or the owner of the network, make that claim? Or are you assuming that because some pundits on CBS think he won, then the whole network holds that belief?

They were not the only pundits who think Edwards won, there were some on MSNBC and Fox who thought Edwards won and some who thought Cheney won.

At least Cheney was himself.

Exactly why he is losing in the polls.

Originally posted by Brooks
Wait a minute, are we talking about pundits or polls. If polls are saying that Senator Edwards won, I'm not surprised. These internet "polls" have no credibility. In fact certain newspapers around the country got positive letters about Kerry's performance before the debate started. Here's what I got in my E-Mail from the DNC:
************** ***************


Take Action
Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the difference.

1. Vote in Online Polls
National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

AOL: http://www.aol.com
CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
Wall Street Journal: http://www.wsj.com/
LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/
Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/
CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/
Akron Beacon-Journal: http://www.ohio.com/
Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/
Orlando Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/
Philadelphia Inquirer: http://www.philly.com/
South Florida Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/
And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls.

Make sure swing voters know why you support John Kerry by sharing your thoughts on message boards in target states:

Seattle Post-Intelligencer & Seattle Times
Arizona Republic
San Jose Mercury News / Contra Costa Times
Philadelphia Inquirer/Daily News
San Diego Union-Tribune
Kansas City Star
Detroit News
Las Vegas Review-Journal
St. Petersburg Times
Cleveland Plain Dealer
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Orlando Sentinel
Oregonian
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
St. Paul Pioneer Press
Grand Rapids Press
Orange County Register
New Orleans Times-Picayune
Akron Beacon Journal
2. Write a Letter to the Editor
Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Edwards presented an optimistic vision for the next four years, put it in your letter. If you feel Dick Cheney failed to explain the last four years of failed policies, put it in your letter.

Click here to write your letter.

3. Call Radio and TV Stations
TV and radio coverage immediately following the debate is where much of the spin is cemented. Make sure you call radio and TV stations to tell them what you thought.

Find shows in your area on our media website.

************ ***********

I give them credit for getting their spin out, but on the other hand, don't fall for the results.

The RNC sent out a very similiar email. I just think us folks at dailykos and the other liberal blogs are much more organized than the Freepers.

Originally posted by dnamertz
Exactly why he is losing in the polls.

So you're saying its good to not represent yourself?..... to put on a false front? .....hmmmm something's fishy there.

In last night's debate, Cheney said Edwards has "one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate."

In truth, Edwards has an 84.8% voting record in the Senate. In each of his first four years, he had a perfect or near perfect record:

1999 Cast 371 out of 274 votes for a 99.2% voting record
2000 Cast 298 out of 298 votes for a 100% voting record
2001 Cast 377 out of 380 votes for a 99.2% voting record
2002 Cast 253 out of 253 votes for a 100% voting record
2003 Cast 281 out of 459 votes for a 61.2% voting record
2004 Cast 84 out of 198 votes for a 42.4% voting record

OVERALL Edwards has cast 1664 out of 1962 votes for a 84.8% voting record.

Last night in the debate, Dick Cheney said the following

“Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session. The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight.”

Cheney's lie about never meeting Edwards has been exposed repeatedly and by many sources. However, the first part is actually a much bigger lie. As Senate attendance records show, in the 126 Tuesdays the Senate has been in session during Cheney's tenure as Vice-President, he has actually only presided over the Senate as President on two occasions. During the same stretch, to fill in for Cheney's repeated absence, Edwards has served as acting President of the Senate on two occasions. The complete list of who sat in during his absences follows. The source for this information is the Congressional Record.

2001
1/30 Enzi
2/6 Chafee
2/13 Chafee
2/27 Allen
3/6 Burns
3/13 Reid
3/20 DeWine
3/27 Chafee
4/3 Smith
4/24 Chafee
5/1 Chafee
5/8 Chafee
5/15 Frist
5/22 Chafee
5/29 Enzi
6/5 Byrd
6/19 Carper
6/26 Bayh
7/10 Nelson
7/17 Clinton
7/24 Byrd
7/31 Stabenaw
9/25 Wellstone
10/2 Clinton
10/9 Clinton
10/16 Edwards
10/23 Byrd
10/30 Bingaman
11/13 Murray
11/27 Jeffords
12/4 Stabenaw
12/11 Carnahan
12/18 Nelson
2002
1/29 Nelson
2/5 Kohl
2/12 Stabenow
2/26 Landrieu
3/5 Edwards
3/12 Landrieu
3/19 Miller
4/9 Cleland
4/16 Reed
4/23 Wellstone
4/30 Nelson
5/7 Miller
5/14 Cleland
5/21 Nelson
6/4 Durbin
6/11 Corzine
6/18 Dayton
6/25 Landrieu
7/9 Reed
7/16 Corzine
7/23 Reed
7/30 Clinton
9/3 Reed
9/10 Corzine
9/17 Reid
9/24 Stabenow
10/1 Miller
10/8 Miller
10/15 Reid
11/12 Cheney
11/19 Barkley (MN)
2003
Jan 7 Cheney
1/14 Stevens
1/22 Stevens
1/28 Stevens
2/4 Stevens
2/11 Stevens
2/25 Stevens
3/4 Stevens
3/11 Stevens
3/18 Stevens
3/25 Stevens
4/1 Stevens
4/8 Stevens
4/29 Stevens
5/6 Talent
5/13 Ensign
5/20 Alexander
6/3 Stevens
6/10 Stevens
6/18 Murkowski
6/24 Coleman
7/8 Stevens
7/15 Stevens
7/22 Chaffee
7/29 Stevens
9/2 Stevens
9/9 Stevens
9/16 Stevens
9/23 Stevens
9/30 Sununu
10/21 Stevens
10/28 Stevens
11/4 Stevens
11/11 Warner
11/18 Stevens
12/9 Stevens
2004
1/20 Stevens
1/27 Enzi
2/3 Stevens
2/10 Stevens
3/2 Stevens
3/9 Hagel
3/16 Sununu
3/23 Stevens
3/30 Ensign
4/6 Cornyn
4/20 Stevens
4/27 Chambliss
5/4 Stevens
5/11 Stevens
5/18 Stevens
6/1 Stevens
6/8 Hutchinson
6/15 Stevens
6/22 Allard
7/6 Burns
7/13 Stevens
7/20 Enzi
9/7 Stevens
9/14 Chafee
9/21 Enzi
9/28 Stevens
10/05 Stevens

They already proved that one last night DaveTooner.

The talking heads had the exact quote, date and circumstances when Cheney did indeed claim a connection between Saddam and 9/11. You're the only one still claiming it isn't true.

Sorry but the kool-aid will only take you so far.

ROTF

Dop

Give me the quote, Lung. Give me the quote.

Echo, hate to break it to you, but Cheney's record of presiding over the Senate is typical of vice presidents. Compare his records to past vice presidents and I think you'll see that its quite normal.

Oh, and if you're talking about this Meet the Press quote, it is being taken out of context:

"and we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11. "

Now here is the full context of the quote:

"If we can stand up a good representative government in Iraq that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it's not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it's not a safe haven for terrorists, now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base -- if you will, the geographic base -- of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years but most especially on 9/11. They understand what's at stake. That's one of the reasons they're putting up as much of a struggle as they have is because they know if we succeed here in Iraq that that's going to strike a major blow at their capabilities."

Russert then says, "So the resistance in Iraq is coming from those who are responsible for 9/11?"

Vice President Cheney: "No. I was careful not to say that."

Originally posted by Overdose
Wrong. He said that we as a nation will never give a veto to any other country. But that we need to lead strong alliances, and we need to be able to factually explain our reasons for what we are doing in the world.

If we can’t hold face in the world, we are lost as a nation. Yes, we can’t give them a veto. But we better make sure we make the right decisions.

The Iraq War was not the right decision. The reasons Bush gave the world were false and wrong.


And Bush is? Losing jobs? Raising the cost of medicine? Forcing millions more Americans to lose health insurance?

Uhh.... NOT WRONG.

The question basically asked what Kerry meant by a "Global Test". Edwards never addressed it. He repeated Kerry's lines, but offered no explanation of what this "Global Test" is.

Basically, it's Kerry covering his bases. He wants to appear strong and decisive, yet compassionate, caring, and concerned about our allies. It's a growing trend of Yes, but only if...

Originally posted by TheGreat Gatsby
The question basically asked what Kerry meant by a "Global Test". Edwards never addressed it. He repeated Kerry's lines, but offered no explanation of what this "Global Test" is.

A "Global Test", is being able to factually explain our reasons for what we are doing in the world. If we can prove factually what we did, we can pass the "Global Test" Kerry was referring to.

A global test is obvious in it's meaning - it does not mean handing a veto to another country.

It means not acting in a way so crazy that nobody else in the world can understand it. The US is or was a moral authority in the world, it's important that the US can explain it's actions and gain allied support - especially when pr-emptively invading another country

Drew, I remember you being mostly conservative back when I first started posting here. Now you sound like a Kerry spokesperson.

Originally posted by DaveTooner
Drew, I remember you being mostly conservative back when I first started posting here. Now you sound like a Kerry spokesperson.

Well, from the last time I talked with him, he is not a Bush supporter anymore. I do not know if he supports John Kerry, but what is "liberal" about what he said? It makes sense, and is what I have been trying to convey.

You dont have to be Liberal, Tooner, to understand that George W. Bush is a horrible leader.

All I'm saying, is based on what I've read from him in the past, I never would have guessed he would be a Kerry cheerleader come election time.

Why not ? I'm now an enthusiast Bush supporter, you know. And ES 347 fan has a picture of the Clinton family as wallpaper.

So you're saying its good to not represent yourself?..... to put on a false front? .....hmmmm something's fishy there.

Who...what...where??? Many polls show Cheney lost the debate and the claim was made that Cheney was being himself, so I said maybe being himself is the reason he's losing in the polls. In other words, the real Cheney is not liked by the public. How did you spin that into me saying someone should not be themself????

I have not seen a single scientific poll about the vice presidential election. Who conducted one? Gallup? Zogby? I haven't seen them.

I have not seen a single scientific poll about the vice presidential election. Who conducted one? Gallup? Zogby? I haven't seen them.

Did I say "scientific"?

if ANYONE won that debate....it was cheney.....maybe people like edwards because he looks like al gore, maybe they like him because he talks like he's reading a fairy tale story to a 2 year old, but nonetheless, in the points at hand, i could not POSSIBLY see how you can say edwards actually won the debate at hand.

You seem hard to fathom that we can fathom anything that disagrees with your right wing fairy tell world.


If you believe for a second that Dick Cheney's lies, distortions, and skipping of questions was grounds for an outright win, you are only living in a Republican dream world of spin.

You seem hard to fathom that we can fathom anything that disagrees with your right wing fairy tell world.
What the hell are you talking about?

Although I wasnt talking to you, Ill respond to your post.

Decka has had a problem as of late understanding why anyone would disagree with their support of Bush.

For example:

i could not POSSIBLY see how you can say edwards actually won the debate at hand.

on the issues it seemed cheney won to me......sorry you dont agree with me

I love the democrat policy....

PERSON A:The numbers say the economy is doing pretty well now and that...

DEMOCRAT: LIES!!! ALL LIES!!! WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!

PERSON A: um...but look at...

DEMOCRAT: MORE LIES!!!! YOUR IN A FANTASY WORLD!!!

then you just repeat on any subject you're talking about....it actually is an effective way to prove that you are a moron.

Republicans: The Economy is looking up

Reality: Our American dollar is now less then the Euro

Republicans: No, America is the strongest country in the world! That can't be! It says GOD on our dollar! We are supreme!

Reality: Ummm, we have never had a net loss of jobs in American, until this Administration...

Republicans: We've had months and months of job growth! And what about 9/11, that's why we lost jobs!!

Reality: The job growth is much, much lower then expected even by the Bush Administration's standards. The job growth is not matching population growth. Plus, no matter how many jobs Bush gains, we will still have a net-loss of jobs. He's lost so many, he can't gain enough to add a single job to this country. First time in the history of America. Plus jobs pay on average 9,000 dollars less then the original job lost...

Republicans: Lies! All Lies! Heil Bush. Everything is fine!

I'm now convinced that you have a master’s degree in oversimplification, OD. Congratulations on your achievement...