Falling Crucifix Kills Woman

ROME (Reuters) - A 67-year-old woman was killed when a three-meter tall metal crucifix fell on her head in a small southern Italian town on Wednesday, police said.
The cross, which has been in the main square on Sant'Onofrio for decades, fell on Maddalena Camillo while workers were setting up lights for an annual religious festival.

Italy, home to the Vatican City, is a predominantly Roman Catholic country where crucifixes and religious icons and effigies are a common sight in most towns and villages.

I'm not into signs from God, but if anything is, that would have to be it.

Passion of the Christ. 2 people were struck by lightning during the crucifix scene.

Was their a point behind the story....just something interesting, or was their something else behind it?

I blame gravity. Either that or God has a wacky sense of humor. :D

I think if people are getting at that this is a sign there is no God or something, that is just plainly obsurd.

Still, the irony, is quite amusing.

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
I think if people are getting at that this is a sign there is no God or something, that is just plainly obsurd.


Why is it absurd to think it was a sign from God?

You posted a story purporting to prove that miracles happen that mentioned somebody's headlights not working, and you said that was the devil's handiwork.

Maybe it's only a sign from God or the Devil if you think it is...

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Why is it absurd to think it was a sign from God?

You posted a story purporting to prove that miracles happen that mentioned somebody's headlights not working, and you said that was the devil's handiwork.

Maybe it's only a sign from God or the Devil if you think it is... Why are you defending the idea it COULD be a sign from God? You have stated numerous times you dont believe in God. But then again, you have also stated you wouldnt COMPLETELY rule out the possibility that God exists. Pick a side and argue that side. This is not a subject that your shades of grey outlook really works well with. You either believe or you dont.

Talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Why is it absurd to think it was a sign from God?

You posted a story purporting to prove that miracles happen that mentioned somebody's headlights not working, and you said that was the devil's handiwork.

Maybe it's only a sign from God or the Devil if you think it is...

I wasnt saying it was absurd to believe that it was a sign from God, only absurd to think it was a sign there was NO God.

I can surely believe that it was a sign from God, or a problem caused by the devil.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Why are you defending the idea it COULD be a sign from God? You have stated numerous times you dont believe in God. But then again, you have also stated you wouldnt COMPLETELY rule out the possibility that God exists. Pick a side and argue that side. This is not a subject that your shades of grey outlook really works well with. You either believe or you dont.

I am asking because I am curious as to how jere perceives "acts of God".

In a previous post describing what jere called "miracles", he told a story about some people from his church going to pick up some church pews, when they started having problems. In that post he said:

But then out of nowhere, they get a telephone call that says they just got a truck that didnt get picked up that they could use...

and

then not an hour later, they call back and say the same thing happened again, and they now have a second truck, with a clip they they can also use.

My question is...if these two simple phone calls and serendipitous events can be considered "miraculous" acts of God, why not a seemingly more unusual event like a cross falling and killing someone?

Originally posted by HaVoK
rule out the possibility that God exists. Pick a side and argue that side. This is not a subject that your shades of grey outlook really works well with. You either believe or you dont.

That is a hard one. I generally am agnostic but when the chips are down I pray like mad to God to help me and he has always come through or I would not be here today.

I draw inner strength from God but yet I do not consider myself religious. The falling of the cross would only mean that a thing fell. If it fell on a mugger in the process of mugging then I would thank God.

old reb

Originally posted by jerejerebinks

I can surely believe that it was a sign from God, or a problem caused by the devil.

How do you tell which it is?

Originally posted by old-reb
That is a hard one. I generally am agnostic but when the chips are down I pray like mad to God to help me and he has always come through or I would not be here today.

I draw inner strength from God but yet I do not consider myself religious. The falling of the cross would only mean that a thing fell. If it fell on a mugger in the process of mugging then I would thank God.

old reb

How do you consider yourself agnostic if you believe that God comes through for you in Prayer?

Not being a typical religious person doesnt mean your agnostic.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
How do you tell which it is?

Well....there is no way I can tell you an honest answer on that.

It is not my place to decide.

However, I do not believe the death of a person by the fall of a cross would be an act of God, however, his will and thought is much much much higher than mine.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I am asking because I am curious as to how jere perceives "acts of God".

In a previous post describing what jere called "miracles", he told a story about some people from his church going to pick up some church pews, when they started having problems. In that post he said:


My question is...if these two simple phone calls and serendipitous events can be considered "miraculous" acts of God, why not a seemingly more unusual event like a cross falling and killing someone? Oh ok...its just a question of how he comes to his particular perceptions. I misunderstood you....again.:o


Speaking for myself, I dont believe that God really takes an active role in our day to day lives. I believe this because whats the use of free will if we are to be guided in our day to day dealings with life? That would seem to me that we are nothing more than pets to him and he prefers one set over another. I dont see it that way at all. I think God gives us opportunities to live wonderful lives and yes, i do believe that at the end of that life we will be judged on what we have accomplished or failed to accomplish.

I just think that when I thank God when something good happens, I am thanking Him for this life and that opportunity for whatever good did happen. Or if I get extrememly lucky and have no idea why, I just associate good events with God's blessings.

I hope you can understand my ramblings. :)

How do you consider yourself agnostic if you believe that God comes through for you in Prayer?

What, agnostics can't believe in or pray to god?

Agnostic isn't Satanic you know.........



Not being a typical religious person doesnt mean your agnostic.

Huh? Once again Jere, enlighten us.....and don't retort by repeating my exact phrase.

I'd actually like to see you attempt to make some sense of this one.

Please allow me to see this event from two views.

First logically- Foundation of cross becomes weak from age and cross falls. High human traffic area, cross strikes and kills human.

Second view as uneducated superstitious person- Cross falls striking person that has wronged me, act of God.
Cross falls and strikes person I viewed as (good), act of Devil.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Please allow me to see this event from two views.

First logically- Foundation of cross becomes weak from age and cross falls. High human traffic area, cross strikes and kills human.

Second view as uneducated superstitious person- Cross falls striking person that has wronged me, act of God.
Cross falls and strikes person I viewed as (good), act of Devil.

Very well put.

Originally posted by creetwins
What, agnostics can't believe in or pray to god?

Agnostic isn't Satanic you know.........

No I'm not saying anything of the sort Creetwins.

But agnostic does mean you believe their ~might~ be a God. If he admits that God answers his prayers, why does he only think there ~might~ be a God.





Huh? Once again Jere, enlighten us.....and don't retort by repeating my exact phrase.

I'd actually like to see you attempt to make some sense of this one.

He said hes not a religious person. What I was saying was that if he wasnt religious that doesnt mean he is agnostic.

Some people may in fact believe they are agnostic, when actually they are not believers / participants in any particular branch of any faith, yet continue to believe in an Almighty.

Only if they dont correctly know what they are saying. If you are a non believer, you are a nonbeliever, not an agnostic.

An agnostic can be a nonbeliever. They might happen to believe in some things like fate, just not god. However, if you proved the existance of god, they would still be non believers even though they acknowlege god's existance. Proof denies faith. Catch-22 ish.

I dont buy that.

Proof does not defy Faith. Explain that to me.

Why does the supreme force have to be a God?

I see occurences like this as a natural result of the world we live in. Therefore, in this instance I'd have to blame gravity, and poor maintenance.

Originally posted by UnCoolDuck
I see occurences like this as a natural result of the world we live in. Therefore, in this instance I'd have to blame gravity, and poor maintenance.

I completely agree, but it does make me wonder...

In the Bible God was always going around helping his followers defeat one enemy or another, or visiting his wrath on some transgressors. He did a heap o' smitin in the Bible, especially the Old Testament.

Why doesn't he do that anymore? Is the reason for this explained in some scripture?

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I completely agree, but it does make me wonder...

In the Bible God was always going around helping his followers defeat one enemy or another, or visiting his wrath on some transgressors. He did a heap o' smitin in the Bible, especially the Old Testament.

Why doesn't he do that anymore? Is the reason for this explained in some scripture?

I believe that God performed certain acts during the time the Bible was being written to demonstrate different aspects of His character, and plan of salvation. Now that the Bible has been completed, we have a record of everything God wants us to know about himself, therefore, there is not a need for him to do any more smitin'.

However, God is still intricately involved in our lives. Everyday occurences like the workings of a human brain, the formation of a baby in the womb, astronomical occurences, etc. are directed by God. He has allowed us to understand a lot about the mechanisms He uses to do these things, but He is still the one who created these mechanisms and causes them to work.

And dont forget that at any time he will smite the enemies of Isreal.

He is still protecting Isreal from all foes every day.

If Israel falls to its enemys does this mean that all Christians will toss out their Bibles and change religions?

Or will it be pointed out that it was a mis interpreted fact by the original interpreters from Hebrew into English?

Originally posted by jerejerebinks
And dont forget that at any time he will smite the enemies of Isreal. He is still protecting Isreal from all foes every day.

Is this the reason our foriegn policy has been so one sided twords Israel for so many years? No matter what they do, we back them. Even when they kill.

You should really thank your lucky stars we do back them. The bible says, when all nations turn on Isreal, it will be the marking of the end of the world.

I believe that we need the comfort of a higher father after we have learned that our earthly father is just a man.

When I am in rational conversation, I am not much of a believer. but when I need help from a higher force, I go to a more desperate mental level and surrender myself to begging a higher father to help me. Maybe I am a hypocrite but I just can't help it.

I believe the bible or Tora is lessons on running governments, schools, your daily life, diet, social events, military. By following these recommendations you will be succesfull as a people.
I also believe the Koran has gone a step further by forcing followers to follow a life book that has no option for change and has led to failure and anger at others whose lives are successful. Islamics feel defeated by social success of others so this they compensate by dominating and destorying competing ways of life.
Until the Koran can have amendments to it, like the US constitution, its followers are doomed to financial and social failure.

old reb

Originally posted by old-reb
I believe that we need the comfort of a higher father after we have learned that our earthly father is just a man.

You are right, our earthly father is just a man. Our heavenly father is an all knowing, all powerful, all loving God.

When I am in rational conversation, I am not much of a believer. but when I need help from a higher force, I go to a more desperate mental level and surrender myself to begging a higher father to help me. Maybe I am a hypocrite but I just can't help it.

See, I dont understand this. If you trust in God when you are in need, what keeps you from trusting at him any other time?



I believe the bible or Tora is lessons on running governments, schools, your daily life, diet, social events, military. By following these recommendations you will be succesfull as a people.

The Bible is the word of God, which teaches us how to live and please God. You are right, however, we have moved away from the days when it helped governments and schools, and its really a shame.


I also believe the Koran has gone a step further by forcing followers to follow a life book that has no option for change and has led to failure and anger at others whose lives are successful. Islamics feel defeated by social success of others so this they compensate by dominating and destorying competing ways of life.
Until the Koran can have amendments to it, like the US constitution, its followers are doomed to financial and social failure.

old reb

I dont know much about the Koran, but if you would have said the same statement about the Bible, I would have to say this.

The Bible says not to add to it, its the final command left to us in the Bible, so you better believe it is important.