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Echo2
09-19-2004, 06:27 PM
My Letter On behalf of Mrs. Niederer
September 18, 2004
By sffreeways

Dear Mr. Bush,
Today I witnessed something that compelled me to write to you again and express my displeasure with your administration. As I watched the evening news I saw a report about the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who was arrested outside an event where Mrs. Bush was speaking for your re-election campaign. Mrs. Nierderer was taken away in handcuffs by the police for allegedly disrupting the event by shouting some questions at the First Lady. She wanted to know why her son died in this war.

First, I would like to take this opportunity to register my indignation with your policy of only allowing those that agree completely with your policies to be present at events in which you or your surrogates are speaking. Silencing those that wish to protest your positions is in my opinion un-American. I say it’s un-American because I was brought up to believe that the difference between America and those places in the world considered not to be free, like Iraq for example, is our constitution, specifically our first amendment, our right to dissent, to express our heartfelt opinions and to fully participate in our democracy. I hesitate to be so harsh as to call you un-American but in good conscience I must be honest about my strong support for our constitutional right to freedom of expression. I find it shocking that our president and our vice president find it necessary to sanitize all of their appearances and require loyalty oaths from those in attendance while we wage war on the government of Iraq for imposing similar subjugation on it’s people.

In the future I would hope this unfortunate incident involving the mother of one of our bravest killed in action would motivate you to direct those responsible for this policy to reconsider and provide an adequate platform for others like Mrs. Nierderer to express themselves at future events. Surely there is a way to uphold the freedoms so important to Americans while at the same time allowing for these gatherings to have their intended participation. Cages called first amendment zones for the loved ones of those killed in conflict and their supporters or any other American that have been provided thus far as a solution are as offensive as no solution at all. I’ve seen the cages we contain terrorists in and the first amendment zones seem like a larger, dirtier version of the same.

Since you choose make yourself unavailable to the public be it through the tradition of the presidential press conference or to allow the general public to attend your appearances you leave people like Mrs. Neirderer little choice but to shout out to you and your representatives putting themselves in peril of arrest and incarceration. This is a very demeaning and unfair position for the American people to be in and unprecedented in my memory. I’ve followed politics closely most of my adult life and don’t remember any president so distant from the American people.

Your father I recall had press events in which he answered the questions on the minds of our citizens. You are said to be unquestionably sure of yourself, such confidence would be refreshing to see exhibited under the scrutiny of people like Mrs. Neirderer.

You want the American people to believe your supporters when they say “vote for Bush a strong decisive leader that won’t back down from terrorists” yet you appear to be terrorized by any American that disagrees with you. And you have often backed down from any American that challenges your leadership like this grieving mother of a soldier you decided to send to war to die. You taunt the terrorists with tough talk like “bring it on” at your campaign events yet you make these challenges at events where there is no chance you’ll be challenged by your own detractors.

I understand the need to have order at an event in which the President of the United States or the First Lady is speaking but a few citizens shouting out their passionate disagreement with war in which lives are being lost daily is not a threat to you or your spouse’s safety. Mrs. Nierderer obviously meant no harm and was escorted out without incident only to be arrested outside the event in front of a group of journalists far from earshot of anyone in attendance. Since she was outside the building when the arrest occurred there is no doubt that Mrs. Bush’s speech was undeterred by her protestations. Mrs. Nierderer appeared only to be exercising her right to dissent. She appeared to have a ticket to get into the rally. She also explained to the journalists gathered outside that she had written to you about her son and received no response other than a request for a campaign contribution.

There is an irony in this particular aspect of your presidency that is stark and troubling and this incident draws a dramatic parallel. It is that this woman’s son was killed in Iraq so that the people of Iraq might taste the freedom denied by a dictator is arrested while exercising the very definition of freedom in America. This arrest was most definitely made because of her views and not because she was any threat to Mrs. Bush. She was arrested for speaking out against a war her son lost his life in. Her son was fighting that war according to you because the people of Iraq weren’t free to speak out against a tyrant. He died so that America can bring Democracy to the Iraqi people and his mother was arrested for exercising Democracy here in America on his behalf.

It will be no surprise to you at this point in my letter when I say that this war has caused me to feel great shame for my country. I am against this war. The arrest of Mrs. Neirderer brought increased feelings of shame to my heart. This over reaction by the police and other similar incidents I’ve observed and read about frighten me nearly as much as any potential terrorist attack because should this be the direction in which we continue I’m afraid we’ll loose the very freedom our military service members are fighting to bestow upon the citizens of another nation.

Perhaps it wasn’t just her audacity to protest your wife that caused her detainment by the police but the content of her words. It is my understanding that Mrs. Niederer came to the event to ask a question from one mother to another. The report said that she wanted to ask Mrs. Bush why your daughters have not enlisted to assist in this war that so many of our young people have served so courageously in. I think the question is a legitimate one and begs an answer. So I ask you President Bush, when will your daughters, Barbara and Jenna Bush present themselves at the recruiting office of a branch of this countries military and enlist?

My son served his country proudly as a Marine from 1998-2003 and so I too strongly believe that as our President and as a president that has sent the sons and daughters of other Americans to war, that the honorable thing to do, that the responsible thing to do is to compel your daughters to serve also. You owe it to America and to the mothers and fathers and sons and daughters that you have sent to Iraq to send your children there as well. In America if it's good enough for Mrs Neirderer's son it's good enough for your daughters. Frankly, I expected that upon their graduation from college recently we would soon see them both in uniform. Perhaps the Air National Guard in the footsteps of their father is the appropriate branch. Although being in the National Guard isn’t the refuge for the sons and daughters of the affluent that it used to be the twin's enlistment would surely be a shining example to all American’s that service in the Guard is an honorable alternative worthy of the same admiration as Mrs. Neirderer’s son’s service to country. Perhaps such selfless sacrifice on their part would appease those Americans that question the honor of your own service. If they don't serve you could atleast out of respect for Mrs. Neirderer answer the question. Put me on the list of Americans that want to know why your daughters aren't serving in Iraq.

In closing I must express that my heart assures me that you will intervene in Mrs. Nierderer’s situation and relieve her of further anguish as I am certain you empathize with her pain and wish her no more harm. Surely you understand there is nothing worse for a mother than the agony of losing a child to violence. She has paid the ultimate price and certainly should be spared from any legal action against her for her expression of disagreement and dismay. Her position with the authorities is without question one in which your assistance and intervention is morally required. I believe you owe her a personal apology and I hope one will be offered immediately.

I appreciate your attention to this very important matter and anticipate your response to my correspondence. I thank you in advance for your prompt reply.

Karankawa
09-19-2004, 07:25 PM
Do you think it is right for Bush supporters to be able to interrupt Kerry's wife everytime she speaks?

Echo2
09-19-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Karankawa
Do you think it is right for Bush supporters to be able to interrupt Kerry's wife everytime she speaks?

First off, this woman has not interupted mrs bush "everytime she speaks. (sic)".

Secondly, Kerry and his group do not insist that everyone that attends their forums sign an allegience paper. Everyone is welcome.

Thirdly, ever hear of FREE SPEECH? I have no problem with a person being removed for disrupting an event, but arresting a mother who is only asking a question just because it would be embarrasing to answer that question is crap. There is a big difference between "removing" someone and throwing a grieving mother in handcuffs.

It shows the callousness this administration has twords the individuals and families of individuals who are laying down their lifes for the GOP's lies.

Karankawa
09-19-2004, 07:37 PM
Okay, let's test your logic in another way by leaving politics out of it.

Suppose you pay money to go to a movie. You want to see this movie. While the movie is playing, some individual gets up and starts hollering, interrupting your movie watching.

Now they have the right to free speech, right? Do you think that is right for them to be able to interrupt your movie?

This isn't rocket science.

Travh20
09-19-2004, 10:51 PM
free speech is a one way street, interupt the republicans and your a patriot upholding your sollum duty as an american, interupt Heinz-Kerry and your a fascist

Echo2
09-20-2004, 11:07 AM
Obviously you teo don't have children that have dies or may die because of this administratins policies.

Comaring someone hollering in a movie to a woman asking a question about her dead son is rediculous. But typical.

Evil Homer
09-20-2004, 08:58 PM
While she should have the right to ask. That was not the place to do so.

LionelHutz
09-20-2004, 09:35 PM
The next person to use the word "typical" near the words liberal, progressive, neo-con, conservative, democrat, or republican should be flamed with extreme predjudice.

Overdose
09-20-2004, 09:36 PM
Why?

Brooks
09-21-2004, 11:44 AM
Patricia Mendoza and her husband were attending a festival in Chicago on July 2, 1996, when President Clinton, making an impromptu campaign stop, approached her to shake hands with her. Mrs. Mendoza reportedly told Clinton, "You suck, and those boys died"--a reference to the deaths of 19 servicemen in a bombing in Saudi Arabia the previous month. Following this, according to a videotape of the incident, Clinton pointed Mrs. Mendoza out to White House Deputy Counsel Bruce Lindsey, and a black Secret Service agent pulled aside another agent and gestured in the woman's direction. After Clinton's departure, two Secret Service agents questioned her, and the Chicago police arrested her and her husband, alleging disorderly conduct.

Echo, Remember this? Guess not

Echo2
09-21-2004, 11:53 AM
Yes I do remeber it and it was disgracefull. That sort of crap is reminiscent of Nixons "list". It should be illegal.

The bigger question is, why do both parties do this? Having the secret service hussle anyone with an opposing viewpoint out and arrest them. Is it to keep the "bad element" from speaking out? Or is it some sort of false feeling of protection/security at the event?

Evil Homer
09-21-2004, 12:46 PM
In both cases, i think that they were just being carefull. If someone who is angry incites a riot or something, that would not be very good. Anybody hear of this guy whos out to kill the president? He gave the keys to his house to his neighbor and said, "Take what you want, im not coming back." Then he drove off with his rifle and hasn't been seen since.

HaVoK
09-21-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Echo2

The bigger question is, why do both parties do this? Yet you never mentioned that both parties do this in your first post. You led everyone to believe with that post that it was such an outrage and Pres. Bush was acting so far different in these actions than any other president ever has. Gee, wonder why?

Echo2
09-21-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by HaVoK
Yet you never mentioned that both parties do this in your first post. You led everyone to believe with that post that it was such an outrage and Pres. Bush was acting so far different in these actions than any other president ever has. Gee, wonder why?

I did not "lead you to believe" anything. I said nothing about what other candidates have or have not done. You made assumptions. Take responsibility for your own thoughts/actions.

HaVoK
09-21-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Echo2
I did not "lead you to believe" anything. I said nothing about what other candidates have or have not done. You made assumptions. Take responsibility for your own thoughts/actions. Thats right, I guess when you copy and paste most everything you post, you really cannot be held accountable for the content.

Echo2
09-21-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by HaVoK
Yet you never mentioned that both parties do this in your first post. You led everyone to believe with that post that it was such an outrage and Pres. Bush was acting so far different in these actions than any other president ever has. Gee, wonder why?

You don't have to like what I post, but at the very least you should try to comprehend what is being said before flying off he handle and making assumptions that aren't true.

I repeat, take responsibilty for your own assumptions. You read into it what you wanted to.

HaVoK
09-21-2004, 01:27 PM
Did you even read your copy and paste article? Try practicing what you preach dumbass.

Echo2
09-21-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by HaVoK
Did you even read your copy and paste article? Try practicing what you preach dumbass.

If you can't debate the issue, insult the person you're debating. I'm impressed.

HaVoK
09-21-2004, 01:38 PM
I apologize for the name calling. It was unneccessary.

Echo2
09-21-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by HaVoK
I apologize for the name calling. It was unneccessary.

Thanks Havok. Just to let you know, I did read the article, and I dont agree with it. Sometimes I post things to get debates going.

This woman has the right to ask her question and she should be answered. But she does not have the right to disrupt a presentation of any kind.

The part I do have a problem with is arrsting her. I think some consideration should be made for the fact that she is grieving her sons recent death. Removal from the premesis should have been sufficient.

Brooks
09-21-2004, 02:33 PM
I agree with Evil Homer on this one. A "group" can become a "mob" can become a "riot" in less than two minutes. In both cases the secret service was right. Apologize later for violating someone's free speech, or even pay off a lawsuit if you have to, but allowing a riot to envelope the president isn't an option.

Karankawa
09-21-2004, 05:33 PM
This woman has the right to ask her question and she should be answered. But she does not have the right to disrupt a presentation of any kind. Just to let you know, I did read the article, and I dont agree with it....This woman has the right to ask her question and she should be answered. But she does not have the right to disrupt a presentation of any kind.

Havok was gracious enough to apologize to you, even though he had little to apologize for.

Now how about you apologize to Travh and myself since you seem to have reversed your position and now agree with us, after being quite rude????

Vilepagan
09-21-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by LionelHutz
The next person to use the word "typical" near the words liberal, progressive, neo-con, conservative, democrat, or republican should be flamed with extreme predjudice.

Typical moderate blather. :D

Vilepagan
09-21-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Karankawa
Havok was gracious enough to apologize to you, even though he had little to apologize for.

Now how about you apologize to Travh and myself since you seem to have reversed your position and now agree with us, after being quite rude????

I agree that HaVok was gracious to apologize... :flowers:

I think that if you re-read her posts again Karankawa, you'll see that she hasn't "reversed her position", she's always maintained that it was wrong for the woman to disrupt the meeting, and it was proper to remove her, but that she shouldn't have been arrested for it.

Karankawa
09-21-2004, 09:54 PM
arresting a mother who is only asking a question just because it would be embarrasing to answer that question is crap...

Obviously you teo don't have children that have dies or may die because of this administratins policies.

Comaring someone hollering in a movie to a woman asking a question about her dead son is rediculous. But typical.

So exactly what do you call that, sir?

Go back to making spelling corrections. You're a lot better at that.