Kerry Has Supported More than $4.4 Trillion in Defense Spending Including Voting for 16 of the Last 19 Defense Authorization Bills. He Voted for the "Largest Increase in Defense Spending Since the Early 1980's."

John Kerry is a strong supporter of the U.S. Armed Services and has consistently worked to ensure the military has the best equipment and training possible. In 2002, John Kerry voted for a large increase in the defense budget. This increase provided more than $355 billion for the Defense Department for 2003, an increase of $21 billion over 2002. This measure includes $71.5 billion for procurement programs such as $4 billion for the Air Force's F-22 fighter jets, $3.5 billion for the Joint Strike Fighter and $279.3 million for an E-8C Joint Stars (JSTARS) aircraft. Kerry's vote also funded a 4.1% pay increase for military personnel, $160 million for the B-1 Bomber Defense System Upgrade, $1.5 billion for a new attack submarine, more than $630 million for Army and Navy variants of the Blackhawk helicopter, $3.2 billion for additional C-17 transports, $900 million for R&D of the Comanche helicopter and more than $800 million for Trident Submarine conversion.

Bradley Fighting Vehicle
The Kerry Record - Bradley Fighting Vehicles:
Kerry has supported at least $8.5 billion in defense authorizations for the Bradley program [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

M-1 Abrams Tank
The Kerry Record - M1 Abrams Tanks:
Kerry has supported at least $21.5 billion in defense authorizations for the Abrams tank. [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

Aircraft Carriers
The Kerry Record - Aircraft Carriers:
Kerry has supported all five new aircraft carriers since he joined the senate: Since 1985, John Kerry has voted to start work on each of the five new aircraft carriers: the USS Stennis and the USS Truman in FY88, the USS Reagan in FY93, the USS Bush in FY98 and the newest (yet unnamed) carrier in FY01.

CVN-74 (Stennis), CVN-75 (Truman):
"The Congress authorized full funding in 1988 for CVN 74 and 75." Kerry voted FOR the authorization conference report for FY88 [globalsecurity.org; http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cvn-68.htm]

CVN-76 (Reagan):
"In fiscal year 1993, the Congress provided $832 million for long-lead procurement items (primarily nuclear components) for CVN-76." Kerry voted FOR the authorization conference report for FY93 [globalsecurity.org; http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cvn-68.htm]

CVN-77 (Bush):
"The FY1998 budget request included no funding for CVN 77, a posture supported by the House. However, the Senate authorized $345.0 million for procurement and construction of components for the CVN 77 aircraft carrier, authorized the Secretary of the Navy to enter into a contract or contracts with the carrier shipbuilder for such purposes, and authorized $35.0 million for research, development, test, and evaluation of technologies that have potential for use in the CVN 77. The Senate directed the Secretary of Defense to structure the procurement of the CVN 77 so that the carrier is acquired for an amount not to exceed $4.6 billion. The conferees supported construction of the CVN 77 and encouraged the Secretary of Defense to make available up to $295.0 million in fiscal year 1998 and to include in the FYDP accompanying the fiscal year 1999 budget request the funding necessary to achieve the savings required to remain within the $4.6 billion cost limitation." Kerry voted FOR the authorization conference report for FY98. [http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cvn-77.htm]

CVN-21 (formerly CVNX) (unnamed):

The FY2001 budget request. "On 13 July 2000 the Senate authorized the Secretary of the Navy to procure the aircraft carrier to be designated CVNX-1. The Secretary may enter into one or more contracts for the advance procurement and advance construction of components for the ship, with $21,869,000 authorized for the advance procurement and advance construction of components (including nuclear components) for the CVNX-1 aircraft carrier program." Kerry voted FOR the authorization conference report for FY01.[globalsecurity.org; http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cvx.htm]

F-15 Strike Eagle

The Kerry Record - F-15 Fighter Jets:
Kerry supported at least 19.5 billion in defense authorizations for the F-15. [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

Block 60 F-16

The Kerry Record - F-16 Fighter Jets:
Kerry supported at least $25 billion in defense authorizations for the F-16. [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

B-1 Bomber

The Kerry Record - B-1 Bomber:
John Kerry has supported at least 10.3 billion in Defense authorizations for the B-1 Bomber. [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

B-2 Bomber

The Kerry Record - B-2 Bomber:
Kerry has supported over $16.7 billion in defense authorizations for the B-2 program. [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

Patriot Missile Air Defense System

The Kerry Record - Patriot Missile Air Defense System

Kerry supported at least $10 billion in defense authorizations for the Patriot program. [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

FA-18 Fighter

The Kerry Record - FA-18 Fighter:
Kerry supported at least $60 billion in defense authorizations for the F/A-18 and F-18 Fighter Jets [Total Funding Support from Kerry Votes for Defense Authorization bills 1985-2003]

Intelligence Funding

Kerry Strongly Supports Increased Intelligence Funding

Kerry, a former member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, has strongly supported recent increases in Intelligence funding for the CIA, FBI, NSA & Other Intel Agencies. In the wake of 9/11, he has supported the bipartisan call for an even larger increase in intelligence funding. According to a report issued by the Center for Defense Information entitled "Intelligence Funding and the War on Terror" John Kerry has supported approximately $250 billion in Intelligence funding over the past eight years alone. The report concludes that Kerry has supported a 50% increase in intelligence funding

Just another war candidate.

this is the opposition party to republicans? Looks like a mirror image.

votenader.org

LOL, overdose cant win. its not easy to please everyone is it? I guess that why kerry has to take two positions on everything.

the question is, did he vote agaisnt it before he voted for it? LOL

Just another war candidate.

Dude, catch a clue...

You're too green for even the most liberal person on the forum, and that says a lot!

WOW!

this is the opposition party to republicans? Looks like a mirror image.

Jesus, what the hell is it about Oregon that breeds this type mentality? All the trees???

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Jesus, what the hell is it about Oregon that breeds this type mentality? All the trees???

What do you mean "this type of mentality"?

There are more then just tree's in Oregon.

the funny thing is Oregon is considered a battleground state, you wouldnt know it visiting this board

There are more then just tree's in Oregon.

Yes, I see there are...

Liberals upon liberals, mixed with a few trees here and there.

I have an idea, don't you assume you know where I stand on the political spectrum.

Your arguments loose any validity when you start down this foolish path of saying "liberals this and liberals that"

I don't idenfity as a liberal, and I'm not keen on others making that distinction for me.

If you are interested ask. But stop assuming.

not many liberals would own up to it, they like to claim they are moderates :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Travh20
LOL, overdose cant win. its not easy to please everyone is it?
I really don’t care what Nader supporters say. I’m not one with “Nader”. I think having a strong military is important, and I’m not going deny it. Kerry has been very strong on defense, and that is what I’m trying to convey. I’m sorry you don’t understand this.

Originally posted by Travh20
the question is, did he vote agaisnt it before he voted for it?
If you could only think of something original…

let me guess, you got this from the kerry web site? I bet that this is not being entirely honest, as is his M.O.

Originally posted by Travh20
let me guess, you got this from the kerry web site? I bet that this is not being entirely honest, as is hs M.O.

Believe what you will, Trav. Do I care? No. Do I care you believe the Right Wing when they say, “Kerry is weak on defense!” But then you have all these votes he voted for….to make us have a stronger military?

Okay, Trav…you believe what you will.

I will take that as a yes.

Originally posted by Travh20
I will take that as a yes.

Except you’re wrong again, but that’s okay. Refute away, if you want. Take my original post, and debunk it. I’m still waiting.

how could I possibly refuts something from the kerry web site? unless of course I am allowed to post from a right wing site, which you ahve said is not good enough for you to waste your time reading

1. It isn’t from John Kerry’s site. It is from another site, in which I found.

2. I suggest you type in all of these votes, and see who voted where. Kerry has been a strong supporter of our military. I don’t understand why you feel the need to deny this. So you have to attack Kerry on everything, and not believe this?

3. Just give it up. Type in all these votes, and you'll see Kerry voted for all of them. It's not very hard. If you don't believe me, prove me wrong. Refute the votes I presented. I'm still waiting.

are those every vote on defense he has ever made, or only the ones he voted yes on? how do we know there are not twice as many he voted agaisnt? that is why your complete acceptance of anything kerry says is bound to be wrong, which also explains why you are changing your views all the time. Ijust want an answer before I post my link.

Trav, I’m asking you to debunk these votes. I’m not asking for you to post a Right Wing site on how he “voted against all of these things”. I want us to discuss what I posted, on these votes. Debunk them, or step off.

let me ask you again, is this every vote he ever made regarding defense in 20 years in the senate, or only the ones he voted yes on? he obviously has voted yes to some defense votes, but those are not the ones he is criticized for. simply posting a list of a few yes votes doesnt prove he is strong on defense overdose. if that were the casse we could argue bush was strong on gaining world allies, he did have a lot of countires on board the iraq war, ore then kerry had yes votes on defense.

The main ones he is criticized for, Trav, are the one’s Cheney said, “We didn’t need”.

Trav, put up or shut up.

What the hell does that mean, Vile?

I can t prove him wrong, it is impossible. I fI post twice as many things he voted agaisnt it wouldnt be good enough. he will never believe anything that is not pro kerry

I'm starting to feel that general political debate is futile on this forum, Trav, so I understand exactly where you’re coming from with regards to your last post.

People here don't care what you have to say unless it's a blatant rip on the Bush administration, and it's getting old for me...:(

just as that pasted article does not prove to me he is strong on defense, any article i post will be to partisan to be believed anyway, since obviosly it will have to come from an anti kerry site in order for it to be a nice wrap up of all of his weak votes

Originally posted by The Praetorian
What the hell does that mean, Vile?

What the hell do you think it means?

It means if Trav has anything to post that will call into question Kerry's defense voting record, he should post it and stop refusing to post anything by claiming that if he does it won't be believed.

This is a discussion board. If Trav posts something credible, it will be given due weight in making his argument. If he insists on posting false or questionable info, it too will be given the weight it deserves.

If, on the other hand, he rtefuses to post anything, his argument has no weight whatsoever, and he should stop clotting up the thread with useless complaints.

(Hint: If you want to post something non-partisan, try looking on a non-partisan site, or maybe even The Congressional Record)

what is a non partisan site? I have posted things I figured to be non partisan which were laughed at, but people post stuff form kerrys site and call it legit. If I go out and find a nice summary of all his votes agaisnt the defense it is going to be seen as partisan, which it would have to be for only the bad votes to be on the list, much like overdoses list of only good votes.

Don't you see, Trav?

In a nutshell, we're partisan.......they're fair, and that's just the way it is!

Originally posted by Travh20
what is a non partisan site?

Here's three sites that are non-partisan and may contain information on Kerry's defense voting record. Do me a favor, and look at the sites, and then decide for yourself if they are "non-partisan". If you don't think they are that's fine, but I don't want you to tell me they're not unless you can back up your reasoning.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/

http://www.spinsanity.org/

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cri/


I have posted things I figured to be non partisan which were laughed at, but people post stuff form kerrys site and call it legit.

Everyone on this board is intelligent enough to know that anything taken from Kerry's website is going to be pro-Kerry, but that doesn't mean it's neccessarily wrong.

Originally posted by The Praetorian

In a nutshell, we're partisan.......they're fair, and that's just the way it is!

In a nutshell, you are partisan...not because you only believe in the Republican line of thinking, but because you insist on lumping people into groups like liberal/democrat, republican/conservative etc....

Try looking at what a person posts before you dismiss it based on what category you've put them in...you might be surprised...

I am a partisan, I have never denied it. its the liberals who cant seem to admit who they are, instead tryig to come across as moderates. the LIBERALS I TELL YOU!

Originally posted by Travh20
I am a partisan, I have never denied it. its the liberals who cant seem to admit who they are, instead tryig to come across as moderates. the LIBERALS I TELL YOU!

How do you know someone's NOT a moderate?...You seem to think they don't exist....

Originally posted by Travh20
I am a partisan, I have never denied it. its the liberals who cant seem to admit who they are, instead tryig to come across as moderates. the LIBERALS I TELL YOU!

I'm partisan...when did I say I wasn't? That does not mean these votes and things John Kerry has done are not true. He is strong on defense in many ways, and that's just the truth.

yes, he has been strong on defense at times, but is nowhere near some perenial defense advocate as claimed. It would be hard to find a senator who had never voted for any defense spending. he is not "strong" in defense. if he were it wouldnt be a problem for him would it?

Originally posted by Travh20
yes, he has been strong on defense at times, but is nowhere near some perenial defense advocate as claimed. It would be hard to find a senator who had never voted for any defense spending. he is not "strong" in defense. if he were it wouldnt be a problem for him would it?

If it's such a problem why does the RNC have to lie about his record to make him look bad?

What lies you ask?

Here's an example of the "truth" put out by the RNC about John Kerry's defense voting record:

He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Vehicle
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank
He voted to kill every Aircraft carrier laid down from 1988
He voted to kill the Aegis anti aircraft system
He voted to Kill the F-15 strike eagle
He voted to Kill the Block 60 F-16
He voted to Kill the P-3 Orion upgrade
He voted to Kill the B-1
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the Patriot anti Missile system
He voted to Kill the FA-18
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the F117



Unfortunately, this is a complete misrepresention of the facts. This list of weapons systems that they claim Kerry voted to "kill", is a blatant attempt to distort the truth.

Many people have repeated the charge that John Kerry voted against every major weapons system while in Congress.

The truth is, that 13 of the 16 systems that Kerry voted to cut, were part of a single appropriations bill in 1991, that the Republican administration urged Congess to cut.

Then Secretary of Defense Cheney in 1991:


"You've squabbled and sometimes bickered and horse-traded and ended up forcing me to spend money on weapons that don't fill a vital need in these times of tight budgets and new requirements."

Cheney went on to name the M-1 tank and the F-14 and F-16 fighters-- all of which appear on the RNC's list-- as "great systems" that "we have enough of."

Vice President Cheney in an interview with Fox News Channel's Brit Hume, March 2 2004:


"What we're concerned about, what I'm concerned about, is his record in the United States Senate, where he clearly has over the years adopted a series of positions that indicate a desire to cut the defense budget, to cut the intelligence budget, to eliminate many major weapons programs."

I ask again...if Kerry's defense voting record is as bad as you claim, why does the RNC have to distort the truth about it to make him look bad?

he did vote agaisnt those things, did he not? maybe if you are so sure about he was mislead, again, you could attack the republican ticket on defense. the reason why people voted a certan way dont matter. it seems as soon as kerry became the candidate it really mattered more why he voted a certain way then the actual vote. I have heard excuse after exxcuse why kerry took the position he did, he never seems to be held accountable for the actual vote, as it was never his fault.

Trav, it’s very simple. The RNC is a group that gives you half-truths. They say Kerry is weak on defense because he voted against these bills. And yes, Trav, he did vote against them. That is true. What’s your point?

Cheney and the Republicans said we didn’t need them. So if anything, they are just as weak on defense as John Kerry. Except John Kerry has supported our military (hence what I have posted in this thread)

Because of Cheney and the Republicans, he voted against these bills. You can dance around the issue, and say, “He voted against them didn’t he!” but really, if Cheney who was head of our defense said we didn’t need them, I’d vote against them. I suggest you stop being so dense.

So, Trav, deal with it.

:rolleyes: its cheney and the republicans fault, again. kerry does not have a brains enough in his head to vote any other way then the way he is told to vote. if he thought these systems were so important he could alwaays vote no. according to you, he reall yis a dim wited rubber stamp to whoever can persuade him, which doesnt appear hard to do if the idiot frat boy bush can dupe the super educated massachuestts billionaire destined to be Prez. ya, cheney was wrong in asking for cuts, I will ding him too, but that doesnt give kerry a pass

Originally posted by Travh20
:rolleyes: its cheney and the republicans fault, again.
Yes, it is. Trav get it in your head. Cheney told Kerry to vote against it. He was the leader of our Defense Department. And when Cheney the leader of that department comes out and strictly says we don’t need them, most people are going to believe him. Get that in your dense, ignorant, little brain.

Originally posted by Travh20
kerry does not have a brains enough in his head to vote any other way then the way he is told to vote.
Sorry, wrong again Trav. He votes the way he sees fit. He votes the way he believes will do the most good. Cheney told him these programs were not good, and not needed. So of course he is going to vote against it. Is that so hard to understand? Or do you love living in your world of ignorance?

Originally posted by Travh20
ya, cheney was wrong in asking for cuts, I will ding him too, but that doesnt give kerry a pass
Ummmm, last I heard Cheney had a huge influence in Kerry’s vote. He was the leader of our defense at the time, and he swayed most of the votes to no. If he had said nothing, or that we needed them, Kerry would have voted yes. For Cheney knew more then anyone else, in terms of what we needed and didn’t need. And when he comes out and says we don’t need them, it’s very much his fault.

Get that in your dense, ignorant, little brain.

Hey, OD, is that a "cuss", or just a downright insult? BTW: skulls are dense, not brains.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Hey, OD, is that a "cuss", or just a downright insult? BTW: skulls are dense, not brains.

Sorry, speaking the truth isn’t an insult. Cussing is taking it down to a level that is far less them simply saying words that have weight and truth. And this is coming from a guy who loves to use the word fag.

Originally posted by Overdose

Sorry, wrong again Trav. He votes the way he sees fit. He votes the way he believes will do the most good. Cheney told him these programs were not good, and not needed. So of course he is going to vote against it. Is that so hard to understand? Or do you love living in your world of ignorance?


so obvioulsy he is either a brainless yes man or very easily manipulated. lets see, so far he shot innocent civilians becasue he was told to, voted to go to war becasue he was manipualted, voted agaisnt national defense because he was simply told to. it doesnt look good for old kerry. I can bet you that not every person in the senate voted to cut those systems. were tehy jsut more responsible or just disobedient?

so obvioulsy he is either a brainless yes man or very easily manipulated. lets see, so far he shot innocent civilians becasue he was told to, voted to go to war becasue he was manipualted, voted agaisnt national defense because he was simply told to. it doesnt look good for old kerry. I can bet you that not every person in the senate voted to cut those systems. were tehy jsut more responsible or just disobedient?

But yet you claim he's a leader???
With your own characterization of Kerry, you've just completely debunked your original point.

Overdose...

You HAVE to admit that this was an AWESOME response. How can you possibly argue with that logic? You've totally painted yourself into a corner and now it's time to take a bite out of the shit sandwich. Sorry.

Originally posted by Travh20
so obvioulsy he is either a brainless yes man or very easily manipulated.
How is taking advice from our leader of defense, being easily manipulated? John Kerry would be easily manipulated if someone off the street told him to vote no. But it was our Defense Leader, Cheney saying it. Anyone would take what he had to say, and use it to determine their vote.

Originally posted by Travh20
lets see, so far he shot innocent civilians becasue he was told to
Because of our Government’s policies, yes. But I’ve already stated that he has to take reasonability for it as well…something you fail to understand.

Originally posted by Travh20
voted to go to war becasue he was manipulated
Good job, Trav. You are correct.

Originally posted by Travh20
voted agaisnt national defense because he was simply told to.
Yes, Cheney told him to. Yet, again, you fail to understand he has supported our Nation's Defense by the votes and things I have presented. He voted No on these votes because Cheney (leader of our defense) said we didn’t need them. He voted yes on all of those other things, because we did need them.

The problem I have is not the fact that Kerry voted for the appropriations bill that the administration wanted at the time, but that now Cheney is attacking him for voting the way the administration asked him to. Not only is he attacking him, but he is pretending to be concerned about his motives for voting the way he did.

"What we're concerned about, what I'm concerned about, is his record in the United States Senate, where he clearly has over the years adopted a series of positions that indicate a desire to cut the defense budget, to cut the intelligence budget, to eliminate many major weapons programs."--DICK Cheney

What a load of crap. I'm more concerned about having a VP that's a lying sack of shit then I am about ONE Senate vote 13 years ago.

so you are saying every vote against anything defense or intelligence related "over the years" was because of cheney? now you are starting to sound like overdose.

I think that's exactly what he's saying, except Cheney is the biggest military freak since Genghis Kahn. He voted for almost ANYTHING military, and that's a fact! I don't know how he "dissuaded" Kerry from being "pro" military, but from what I've seen, and what I know about Cheney...it sounds to me, that a vote against military advancement seems a lot more like Kerry then it does Cheney. Cheney was one of the biggest reasons the star wars program existed! That dude is bona fide cowboy!!! A real man's man...gotta love him.

Originally posted by Travh20
so you are saying every vote against anything defense or intelligence related "over the years" was because of cheney? now you are starting to sound like overdose.

Nope...never said anything of the kind. I specifically referred to... "the appropriations bill that the administration wanted at the time"...and..."I'm more concerned about having a VP that's a lying sack of shit then I am about ONE Senate vote 13 years ago"... how is it you don't understand a specific reference when you see one?

As far as Cheney's statement goes, his remark about Kerry's votes "over the years" is deliberately vague. He doesn't mention specifics because it doesn't suit his purposes to do so, just as you haven't posted any specific information about Kerry's defense voting record, because it's easier to make Kerry look bad by being vague.

Posted by The Praetorian
I think that's exactly what he's saying, except Cheney is the biggest military freak since Genghis Kahn. He voted for almost ANYTHING military, and that's a fact!

Tell me one military thing that Cheney voted for.

You also conveniently ignore the fact that it was Cheney who appealed to Congress in 1991 to reduce the amount of money spent on defense projects that he is now criticizing Kerry for.

This is a rotten.com rip on him, but suffice it to say...he liked the military, and according to the bio here, he definately approved of/voted for various big ticket military programs. Cheney Bashing Bio (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/dick-cheney/)

God, he's one helluva business man, and you HAVE TO admire that!

LMAO, the chickens are coming home to roost now!

God, he's one helluva business man, and you HAVE TO admire that!

LMAO, the chickens are coming home to roost now!

hmmm...I guess I was wrong about Kerry's defense voting record...you guys sure know how to make a cogent argument...

:rolleyes:

hmmm...I guess I was wrong about Kerry's defense voting record...you guys sure know how to make a cogent argument...

Well, admitting it is the first step. :)

LOL:D