I have just finished reading the 3rd chapter of 'unfit for commannd' - deadly stuff (downloadble at the Swift Boat Site). If true then kerry has a real problem. The story about xmas in Cambodia by JKF is already proving to be difficult for him and I think the Kerry camp is starting to put their spin on it to try to explain it away. the media blackout on this issue is also of concern to me. This tells me that hatred for GWB is causing blindness to the many failings of JFK.

it doesnt matter if kerry is a liar and a war criminal, anybody but Bush is thier motto, and they are not joking about it.

Trav - a very very sad state of affairs indeed. When the blind lead the blind they will all end up in the ditch and I guess we will have to call on GWB to take decisive action and save them.

we will need more then GWB to get us out of the mess that mentality will make.

Looks like the smear-boat vets ads and books aren't working. Todays polls in both OH and PA show Kerry opening up his lead among vets.

Told ya.

ROTF

Dop

dop, please shut up. nothing you have ever predicted has EVER come true, at lest not on this board anyway. the more you talk about the swiftys fading away the stronger they really are.

Well here's a prediction trav -- tomorrow mornings Washington Post front page -- an article exposing the unfit for duty authors as liars.

Yep, and it's gonna be based on official military records that were released *TODAY*!!!

Have a good one

Dop

Let the truth be known - and let the people decide. Swift Boat Veterans For Truth revelations should be allowed to stand the test of scrutiny just as John Kerrys record in nam. I am still concerned with the lack of media attention to the SBVFT Claims. Its as if the media (at least the liberal media) wants to bury its head in the sand with the hope that it will all go away.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Well here's a prediction trav -- tomorrow mornings Washington Post front page -- an article exposing the unfit for duty authors as liars.

Yep, and it's gonna be based on official military records that were released *TODAY*!!!

Have a good one

Dop

wishful thinking dop. I read it today, it doesnt say anything. on its face it would appear to do so, but if you keep reading to the meat of the article, it appears to not be the case. as with all news article, they dont start really reporting till over halfway down the article. if you keep waiting for the magic bullet that puts these guys away keep dreaming. the very fact tehy are still around after countless hours of research by thousands of kerry supporters to discredit them says something. if this is the smoking gun you guys are in trouble.

the military records released were not kerrys, they were Thurlows. seriously, this looks like a pathetic attempt at shutting these guys up. they wont release kerrys records, but they release the records of another guy to try and prove kerry right. sad.

have a god one dop.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284/

The smear boat vets have been totally exposed as liars as of this beautiful morning -- thanks to the Washington Post article. The members of that group are now openly admitting they lied.

This is why bush is diving in the polls -- everyone knows the smear boat vets are liars except bush -- he nees to distance himself and do it quickly.

ROTFLMAO

Dop

:rolleyes: deranged and dillusional as always. show me anything in the article that shows they lied dop.

What do you call it when a person makes an official statement back in Viet Nam that Kerry's boat was attacked and then 30 years later says it wasn't and goes to print in a major book with the statement? That isn't a lie??

And here's more -- it's about the green beret that says kerry saved his life -- are you calling him a liar too?

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0819.html

The smear-boat liars story is now on Yahoo ... I'll say one thing for this Thurlow guy -- he doesn't mess around when it comes to telling lies -- man that was a whopper he told about Kerry and now it's coming home to bite him in his big fat lieing a**. ROTF


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic_5

And speaking of books -- looks like your fav author MM is coming out with 2 more before election day and one is about letters received from the troops.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/books/186857_moorebooks19.html

Dop

first of, please dont post things from kerrys campaign site and expect anyone to read them. Should I start posting things from bushs site and expct you to believe evrything they say? no, that would be dumb. please dont try it with me. If you read the articel, you would see that the gy never said he was fired on. his medal citation said it. he did not write the citation. who did I wonder? there was another swift boat skipper there that said there was no fire too, I take it they are both lying? Your fanatical belief in anything John Kerry says is disturbing. IF you can show me actual proof they are lying, not some other guys record citation written by john kerry, I will beleive you. I dont have any love for these guys, but I believe they have something to say since it relates directly to kerrys central campaign theme. I havent seen anything but partisan swipes at them, no hard proof. The fact that kerry calls on bush to shut them up instead of jsut proving them wrong tells it all.

Do you think moore will print all the letters from troops calling him a fat commie slug in those books? I guarentee there are 10 times as many. of course, he wont. maybe bush should call on kerry to shut micheal moore up, since moore had a front row seat at the dem convention my bet is he wont

ROTFLMAO

Kerry's latest statement ...

"More than 30 years ago I learned an important lesson. When you're under attack the best thing to do is turn your boat into the attack. That's what I intend to do today."

War hero against ChickenHawks -- bring em on.

ROTFL

Dop

And the lies just keep on coming ... LOL

John E. O'Neill, leader of the anti-Kerry Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and co-author of the book, Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry, lied once again on national television about his partisan political activity on behalf of the Republican party.

O'Neill, appearing on Tuesday's Fox News with Brit Hume, claimed that half of $15,000 in contributions to Republicans listed in Federal Election Commission records actually were made by a law partner with a "similar name."

"My law partner has almost the same name, Edward J. O'Neill," claims O'Neill, who practices law in Houston. In an earlier interview with newspaper reporters, O'Neill claimed the contributions were made by his firm, not him, but federal law prohibits corporate contributions to federal candidates and he changed the story before appearing on Fox.

Asked by Fox News correspondent Brit Hume to explain nearly $15,000 in donations to Republicans, O'Neill said, "about half of them were mine. Those are actually funds, as nearly as I can tell, that were given my -- by some -- my law partner who has almost the same name, Edward J. O'Neill. I simply didn't give them. I would have been happy to give them. I just didn't."

But Federal Election Commission Records clearly identify "John E. O'Neill" as the individual contributor of $14.650 to candidates -- all Republicans -- since 1990. FEC Records also list contributions by Edward J. O'Neill but they are different from the contributions listed for John E. O'Neill.

no shit he is partisan dop, you have said that already, that doesnt mean he is lying. nothing you have ever said has proven what these guys have said about kerry wrong. you simply attack thier credibility like a coward instead of attacking the message. you are running scared dop. kerry is running scared. no one can prove these guys wrong. when you can let us know, until then stop with the chicken shit backdooratacks. prove them wrong or take a walk.

Absolutely correct trav. No one has proven these guys wrong yet. Instead of answering the SBVFT claims they continue to beat around the 'Bush'. In fact the SBVFT have taken the fight right into the enemy (kerry) camp and has caused a great deal of confusion amongst the rank and file. The fact that the xmas in cambodia story has now proven that JFK is indeed a liar especially after backtracking after intially saying that it was "seared" into his memory. My guess is that democrats are now thinking twice about this man that they thought they once new. They do not know half the story - yet. The people have a right to know the truth about this man and his record continues to show that flip flopping is a characteristic of this wannabee president. He does have the gift of the gab but that can only kerry him so far but when the rubber hits the road - skirting around the 'bush' has become his defence. His 20 year record in the senate speaks for itself.

Watch out -- this guy Thurlow is back-peddling so fast he'w liable to run someone over. ROTFLMAO

Dop

snip<------------------ cut here ------------------->snip

MATTHEWS: ... the Bronze Star. The Bronze Star, that you deserve the Bronze Star, you were awarded the Bronze Star, fair enough, and you say you were not under enemy fire. You‘re now saying that John Kerry doesn‘t deserve the Bronze Start because he wasn‘t under enemy fire. Aren‘t you both in the same boat? Didn‘t you both do about the same thing, both get same award? And why are you complaining that he doesn‘t deserve it, if you deserved it?

THURLOW: I felt like I got the award because I saved some people‘s lives and saved the boat. What I say...

MATTHEWS: Well, he saved Rassmann‘s life, according to Rassmann‘s own account.

THURLOW: OK...MATTHEWS: Why doesn‘t he deserve the award?

THURLOW: Well, I—I don‘t—I‘m not quibbling about the award.

I‘m saying he lied about the...

MATTHEWS: Oh, yes, you are, sir!

THURLOW: ... account.

MATTHEWS: You are out here in an advertisement saying, quote, “When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry.”

THURLOW: That‘s exactly right.

MATTHEWS: That‘s a pretty strong—because of what are you saying this?

THURLOW: Because he had this master plan that was...

MATTHEWS: You got—give me an example.

THURLOW: ... to promote his...

MATTHEWS: OK, let‘s to go your theory of the plan. Have you seen it written down? Have you heard him tell his account to someone? How do you know, in any real way, he had this plan?

THURLOW: Because of the fact that he engineered three Purple Heart incidences that allowed him to go home after he spent about one third of his tour there.

MATTHEWS: But that‘s your account of what happened. He was there for four months.

THURLOW: That‘s exactly right.

MATTHEWS: He did win the three Purple Hearts. He did get the Bronze and the Silver. And you say he had some plan to get an award as a battle hero ahead of time, but you can‘t tell me how you know he had this plan.

THURLOW: I know he had this plan because of what happened not only then but after the fact.

MATTHEWS: Did you have a plan to win the Bronze Star? You won the Bronze Star. Did you have a plan?

THURLOW: No, in fact, I didn‘t...

MATTHEWS: Why is winning the Bronze Star...

THURLOW: I didn‘t apply for it.

MATTHEWS: Why is winning the Bronze Star evidence of having had a plan to win one? I don‘t get it.

THURLOW: Well, I—we‘re not even talking about him having a plan to win the Bronze Star.

MATTHEWS: Can you honestly tell me now, sir, that you could swear in open court that you know that John Kerry, when he was a lieutenant JG in the same theater you were in had some plan for winning medals? Do you know that for a fact?

THURLOW: OK. In other words, present evidence that he had this plan?

MATTHEWS: Yes.

THURLOW: Of course, I couldn‘t.

MATTHEWS: Well, what...

THURLOW: I‘m basing it on my observations.

ya, this proves the seift boat vetrans ae all liars, dop once again accusing his enemys of doing what his side is doing :rolleyes: dop, all you need to know is that the swift boat veterans are not changing their story, kerry is. kerrys people have changed the cambodia story 5 times now, and the story about the under water mine at least 4 times. I will ask you again: if 2 groups are calling each other liars, and one constantly changes their story while the other doesnt, who is lying?

The SBV's don't have a story to change -- they only have lies and anyone knows that once you tell a lie you never back off that lie or change it.

Dop

so the guys who always change their story are the one s telling the truth? I figured you would say almost anything to back up your boy, but this is sad. go get the book and read it dop, or are you afraid of what you might find>?

Looks like team bush is having a rotten day ...
Here's the latest about a 3rd and unknown bronze star winner that has somthing to say about what happened that mysterious day in the swift boats. ROTFLMAO.

Sould be mainstream media by tomorrow moring ... Dop

Three Navy men won Bronze Stars for their actions that day: Kerry, Thurlow, and radarman first class Robert Eugene Lambert, a petty officer in the boat captained by Thurlow. The citation for Lambert's Bronze Star--previously undisclosed but obtained today under the Freedom of Information Act from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis--repeats the description of the incident included in the citation for Thurlow's Bronze Star: "all units came under small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks." Lambert's citation also notes that Lambert--who assumed command of PCF-51 after Thurlow went to assist another Swift boat damaged by a mine--"directed accurate suppressing fire at the enemy." The citation praises Lambert's "coolness, professionalism and courage under fire."

:rolleyes: whatever dop. it doesnt change the fact kerry wrote all of these citation and is the only officer there that day who says there was enemy fire. they have admitted they opened up as soon as the mine went off as pasrt of an SOP. nothig new here, keep trying. we are not interested in other peoples citation written by the guy in question here.

Looks like FOX debunked the so-called fact that kerry authored all the citations, the damage reports, the grocery list and the TV guide for all 210 swifties that day. ROTF.

The truth always comes out -- just give it time.

Dop

since when do you trust fox? who wrote the reports? i suppose the dead guy right?

Dunno trav but when FOX asked the swifties this morning for the documents to substantiate their claims they couldn't produce a single one -- not one period.

Then FOX produced some records, especially the damage reports and the swifties pretty much said they were lies or forged or whatever fantasy is going through their heads.

FOX also asked them how kerry could possibly falsify all these records when there were 250 other swifties there and no one said a word at the time. The swifties tried to imply it was a major conspiracy and everyone was in on it -- even the show host had a hard time not laughing at that one.

Then FOX showed the same smear swifties personally endorsing kerry as recently as 1996. Again, the smear boat vets had no answer than it never happened -- even when faced with video they claim it never happened. That's congitive dissonance.

The best one is thurlow who claims he didn't even know he was awarded a bronze star and he threw it away or lost it or his ex-wife has it or whatever the daily spin is. Yet he accepted the award and never once denounced the conditions under which it was awarded.

Sorry, but no one really cares anymore about the swifties and most people are getting sick of listening to it. Oh well, looks like it's back to jobs and health care which most people do care about. Kerry 1, Bush 0.

Dop

so does this mean you are down with FOX news, or only when they do something you personally agree with?

all of these attacsk on them and on bush dont deflect the actual issue here, Kerrys lies and the fact he refuses to release the records that could end all of this right now. I am sure they will eventually come out, but the delay will be far to suspicious and it will be to late.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Looks like the smear-boat vets ads and books aren't working. Todays polls in both OH and PA show Kerry opening up his lead among vets.

Told ya.

ROTF

Dop

Right on Bro!

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=231

Debunks all their claims...
I suggest you read a fair website. Fact Check not only attacks Republicans, but Democrats. It shows the light with documented proof, who is wrong and or right.

It's over, bu-bye.

Overdose, would you happen to have a link to where i can read these navy records. I should very much like to read them. Thanks.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5818634

I mean the actual report. not a report on the report.

Ummm, I suggest you find that for yourself. I'm to lazy to do it. But if you don't believe MSNBC, and their report on the report...I'm sorry.

you always say your sorry and its sickening. you and your aloof condenscending ass need to stop with the crap. if people cant see it oyur way, well you are sorry for them, whatever man.

Overdose, the navy is not going to go back and take back someone medals. they have faith in thier officers to tell the truth, so they see no need to question them. Even if they later on have reason to believe one of their officers was being less then truthful, they wont go back in time to investigate one medal 35 years ago for one man. The military is a gigantic, slow moving beuacracy. Even if they wanted to try and investigate one firefight 35 years ago, it could never do so beofre the election. its easier to jsut stick to tehir story and get back to matters at hand. they wont say they gave away phony medals anyway. so, it doesnt suprise me the navy says the medals are legit, becasue they gave them out. no one ever said he never got the medals anyway overdose.

Originally posted by Travh20
you always say your sorry and its sickening. you and your aloof condenscending ass need to stop with the crap. if people cant see it oyur way, well you are sorry for them, whatever man.
Blah, blah, blah, blah? Alright, insults are wonderful.

Originally posted by Travh20
Overdose, the navy is not going to go back and take back someone medals. they have faith in thier officers to tell the truth, so they see no need to question them.
Factcheck.org refutes all the Swift Boat claims. That is a fair site, and they fully document everything they say. It's over for you guys.

yo have been saying its over for the past 2 months, obviously if you have to keep saying it its not. The medal thing showed kerry to be dishonest, and the fact he did change his original stories on more then one occasion in response to the SBVFT claims shows it. Now they are going to show he is not loyal and willing to conspire with the enemy. its over for you guys.

Dishonest? Huh? Really? How?

I'll reply to your response later, school time! Yay! Fun!

remember a little thing called christmas in cambodia? remember how it was seared into his memory? now, its not in cambodia on chistmas, but some other time. Do you honestly think without the SBVFT to point it out Kerry would have just come forwrd and said "you know what, now that i think about it, I guess I wasnt in Cambodia on Christmas, I better revise my book."

Ummmm, well, not going to Cambodia but still serving, is better then what Bush did.

if you insist

Yes, I do.

so in your mind, embelishing your actions (bronze star actions), lying about where you were (cambodia), embelishing wounds (self inflicted and surface scratchs reuslting in 3 PH's in 3 months), meeting with enemy governemnts in secret (the N vietnamese in Paris), lying under oath about your fellow soldiers in front of the wrld, after you meet with the enemy in Paris, in your min, these are better then missing a physical?

Originally posted by Travh20
so in your mind, embelishing your actions (bronze star actions)
He earned the Bronze Star.

Originally posted by Travh20
lying about where you were (cambodia)
Ummmm, okay, okay, okay! I'll give this one to you Trav! Lets say he really did lie about that. Okay, so going to Vietnam, serving, and not going to Cambodia, but still serving is worse then not serving at all? Okay, now it all makes sense.

Originally posted by Travh20
embelishing wounds (self inflicted and surface scratchs reuslting in 3 PH's in 3 months)
Yes, I'm sure he wanted to get a wound! But regardless, you can earn Purple Hearts with getting self inflicted wounds, but they were not all self inflicted. But even if they were, he still did more then Bush.

Originally posted by Travh20
meeting with enemy governemnts in secret (the N vietnamese in Paris)
LOL. And you say Dop gets crazy ideas.

Originally posted by Travh20
lying under oath about your fellow soldiers in front of the wrld
No, he never lied. All of it was true, there were atrocities. I suggest you watch the History Channel.

so you deny that kerry met with n vietnamese in paris beofre his senate campaign overdose?

and there are attrocities in every war overdose, kerry lied when he said they were ordered to commit them and they were being commited systematically by all soldiers. that was a lie.

let me ask you this, if bush didnt serve, as in, the texas air guard is sham duty, and he missed his flight physical and everything, why is that more of an outrage then Kerry missing like 30 something intelligence briefings as a US ssenator because he had better things to do?

I think that the Dems are pissing a lot of people off by playing the line that "The National Guard is as good as Draft Dodging." There are a lot of people in the National Guard who don't like their service being belittled.

Originally posted by Travh20
and there are attrocities in every war overdose, kerry lied when he said they were ordered to commit them and they were being commited systematically by all soldiers. that was a lie.
No, it really wasn't. But you can live in your fantasy world all you want. Because you believe the fact that he committed them, but you don't believe the other part of his testimony. Nit picking for political gains?

Originally posted by Travh20
let me ask you this, if bush didnt serve, as in, the texas air guard is sham duty, and he missed his flight physical and everything, why is that more of an outrage then Kerry missing like 30 something intelligence briefings as a US ssenator because he had better things to do?
Yes, I'm sure 30! Is that the number the Republicans are using now? Anyway, Kerry served in Vietnam, Bush didn't. I don't care if Kerry didn't earn any medals or purple hearts. It does not matter, he went and put his life on the line. Bush didn't. I'm sorry you cannot understand simple information.

whos living in a fantasy world here? you didnt even know kerry met with the N vietnamese in Paris or that kerry has skipped out on over 30 security briefings. of course how would you know? you simply swallow everything dan rather throws at you, its not your fault. I dont know why I am so suprised you dont know these things.

Ummmmm, who served? Who put their life on the line? John Kerry. Who didn’t and stayed in America? George Bush. It’s a simple concept you fail to grasp.

John Kerry served...so did ulysses S. Grant and look how good of a president he was. Service doesnt make a president OD...ive told you that 15 times, and yet you latch onto it like you were hanging onto it for dear life. You may personally like Kerry better because he went into the service...go ahead. But Kerry's Senate record speaks leaps and bounds about what he's really about.

Originally posted by Overdose
Ummmmm, who served? Who put their life on the line? John Kerry. Who didn’t and stayed in America? George Bush. It’s a simple concept you fail to grasp.

you keep saying that overdose, then turn around and say it doesnt matter. you are making yourself irrelevant with your contradictory statements. one final time, is war service the most important attribute of a candidate? if not, what the hell is your point?

Originally posted by Travh20
you keep saying that overdose, then turn around and say it doesnt matter. you are making yourself irrelevant with your contradictory statements. one final time, is war service the most important attribute of a candidate? if not, what the hell is your point?

When did I say it was "irrelevant"? I said the medals/hearts are, because him serving is better then Bush not serving. If Kerry were to get no hearts/medals it wouldn't matter, he did more then Bush. Period.

so being in vietnam for 4 months makes you more qualified to be US President then 4 years as actually being US President?

Originally posted by Travh20
if you insist

Over 50% of the American public insists.

For years I have told the story about my favorite 4th of July that I spent in Panama beach, Florida. A couple years ago I looked at a map and realized that it wasn't Panama Beach but Fort Lauderdale. I'm not a geographic idiot and I don't smoke dope so it amazed me that I could somehow have foorgotten or mixed up where I was on that weekend. (It was a VERY significant event in my life).

The only conclusion I can draw is that if a normal person under regular cicumstances can confuse the place of a significant event in their life, it certainly is possible for someone in battle, in a foriegn land, to do so.

thats where you are wrong. its obvious you have never been in combat, especially at christmas time. as I said in another thread a while back, if you are in a war zone at chistmas, especially your first christmas, you will remember whre you were. its one of those things you remember, or as kerry put it, are seared into your memory. where were you on christmas of 92? I know where I was, where was I on an other christmas in my life? dont know except for last year. you dont forget those things. if he had spnt multiple christmases in vietnam I could understand getting mixed up, but he spent one christmas in a war, he should rember where he ws that day.

Just keep telling yourself that trav.

your right, your panama city/Ft Lauderdale confsion is probably a better comparison :rolleyes: how many christmases have you spent in combat zones again?

Originally posted by Travh20
your right, your panama city/Ft Lauderdale confsion is probably a better comparison :rolleyes: how many christmases have you spent in combat zones again?

I gave birth to my daughter that 4th of July weekend. I think that constitutes enough drama to make it a memorable occasion.

so you dont even know what city your daughter was born in? OK, anyway, that doesnt answer the question, how many christmas' you spent in comat zones taht give you such authority in the subject.

I spent three xmas's very near a combat zone when I was in the Airforce. 69-70 and 71. I was in Japan and got to ssee the guys being shipped back in pieces. Very delightfull.

How about you? How many have you spent in a combat zone? Have you ever been in the military?

so are you 100% sure you were in japan those 3 christmases? are you sure you were no in korea? and yes, I have been in the military, and spent christmas of 1992 in Kisamaayo Somalia

If you recall, the boarder between vietnam and cambodia was not marked. Also, there may have been a very good reason for not releasing the info of were the troops actually were. You do remember that we were not supposed to be in some of those countries over there? I think Laos was another one that we actually had men in but were not supposed to. The military likes to do things like that and then tell their guys that its "classifed" so they have to make up a story about were they were.

There could be a dozen reasonable explanations for this but you being so all fired sure that Kerry couldn't have a good reason for anything jump to the negative conclusion.

I think Kerry is as confused about that xmas as bush is about his going AWOL. We will never know the truth about either, and my guess is that the truth falls somewhere between - complete lie and complete truth for both of them.

We could argue this all day but the bottom line is - we will never know and can only guess.

I agree that there is to much unkown to say for sure, what my problem is is that he insisted it was "seared" into his memory being in cambodia on christmas and getting shot at by cambodians, vietcong and NVA, he wrote it in his book (or Brinkley did). this was all fine and good and fact until the SBVFT came along. since then he has had his biographer change the story in the book!!! I know he would not have done that if it were not for the SBVFT. And just as a side note, the river crossings that could handle a tractor trailer sized swift boat were all clearly marked and guarded by US forces. Remember a swift boat is over 50' long, not really the type of boat you would want to use for illegal covert infiltrations into cambodia to drop off special forces. there were smaller, quieter, more manevurable craft for those missions. it would be like taking a C-5 to drop a squad of Green Berets off when a Blackhawk would do

listen to deliberate slandering from either side.

I find what the SBV are doing to be very wrong, and even if I were for Bush, I would be ashamed of their tactics and deliberate misleading of the public. I am honored and proud that there is not such a group spewing such nonsense about Bush, although I am sure there is probably a lot to be told.

This nonsense of Kerry flip-flopping is annoying as well. What is wrong with a man standing behind his President and agreeing with him when he is under the impression that he is being given all necessary information to make a decision with, and that the information he is given is the truth? Especially when it concerned sending our young men and women into battle? He believed and trusted his President and wanted to show unity at a time when he completely believed that our nation was in peril from Iraq's ruler.

But after discovering that the information was false, or at the least, misleading. After realizing that all of us were duped to feed an egomaniac's personal grudge, he wisely refused to continue to agree with that war and withdrew his support for it. To me that is the right thing to do. When you discover that the path you are following is going in the wrong direction, what intelligent person would continue along the original path?

I give Mr. Kerry credit that he did serve his country in Vietnam, even if it was for 4 months. And while being there and shortly thereafter, learned of lies and other terrible happenings, he stood up publicly and spoke out against what he knew to be a horrible mistake it was for us to be fighting in Vietnam.

And how come you ignore his efforts along with Senator John McCain to find the MIA's in Vietnam after the war was over?

I believe that Mr. John Kerry has lived an honable life, and if he has been misled into believing a wrong, he has proven he also has the courage to stand up and find the path to the truth instead of following blindly like so many other fools are doing.

some se it as courage, some see it as flip flopping, it all depends on the little letter next to your name I guess

Well said Trav. eg. Bill O'rielly. Libs and Cons both see the same show and draw completly different conclusions.