I am STRONGLY convinced that the Bible teaches the
Doctrine of the Trinity, and the Deity of
Christ,

One God, in three Distinct persons, the Father,Son,Holy Ghost,
Yet when I see Jehovah's Witnesses, my arguments for the
Trinity have no effect on them.

Carm.org and Bible.ca, strongly show that the
Trinity is True,

The Trinitarians have the SUPERIOR Biblical Arguments.

My dog can fly and fart the national anthem too.

Authentic i noticed in a few of your post that you specifically have called out JW's either their teachings or their Bible. What do you have against them? It seems i am the only JW on this forum site so I am the only person who can speak for them. Whats up?

I have nothing Against, Jehovah's Witnesses

It just that their Watchtower Cult actually causes people to
become Mentally ill
The Watchtower "Society" literally spreads Mental illness,

They have made COUNTLESS False Prophecies, they are WRONG, on Many Biblical issues, like Blood Transfusions, and the Deity of Christ and the Trinity, they have literally MUTILIATED the Bible to support their FALSE DOCTRINES,

They are WRONG, they are NOT God's Organization, they are False Prophets, and the Governments of the World should warn their Citizens about the DANGERS of the Watchtower Cult, to prevent anyone from becoming a
Jehovah's Witness.

The PROOF... You ask

See the book

"The Awakening of a Jehovah's Witness" by Diane Wilson,
a Former JW, well documented,
see the section in the Back

"Why Jehovah's Witnesses have MENTAL PROBLEMS" by
Dr. Jerry Bergman

The Watchtower "Society" is Nothing but TROUBLE, I dream of a World where all Jehovah's Witnesses LEAVE the
Watchtower aka (Mind Control Tower) and Cease being
Jehovah's Witnesses

See also the sections on

www.carm.org and Bible.ca, about
the Watchtower "Organization" and their LIES

Originally posted by Jwjames111
Authentic i noticed in a few of your post that you specifically have called out JW's either their teachings or their Bible. What do you have against them? It seems i am the only JW on this forum site so I am the only person who can speak for them. Whats up?

Because I used to volunteer at a family counseling center and we had numerous families that were breaking up because of the tactics of this religious organization. They assimilate one of the parents and that one starts insisting that the falily live by the anti-social rules of the cult and when the other parent refuses to deny xmas to the kids, refuses to not celebrate the childrens birthdays and refuses to ignore their relatives on thanksgiving and easter and other family holidays the JW's put presure on their newly assimilated member. They reported being ostracised, subtle put downs about not loving jesus enough, all sorts of horible tactics. In every case, either the other parent was forced to live by the anti-social cult ideals or the couple would separate and eventually divorce. Breaking up families is like a pass time to JW's.

We also had numerous young adults come in who were desperately tring to leave the cult and were being threatened by parents and other family members. Parents actually threatening to cut their own children out of their lifes.

JW's teach that it is not a good idea to associate too much with people that don't believe the same things they do.

For those interested in what these people do to their congregation, here is a very interesting web site with hundreds of articles ans depositions from ex-witnesse's who have either been tossed out or they ran for their lifes.

http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=NEWS1

Psychological abuse, sex abuse, physical abuse, the use of terror and fear to keep cultists in line. These are documented cases. The justice department has rooms full of files on these people and they are trying to crack down on them, but it is difficult because they are a church and cultists within the organization are too freigtened to speak up.

Based on Fear

NEW YORK (Ekstra Bladet): The mortar that binds the Watchtower together is fear. Fear of offending Jehovah, fear of the “elders” for humiliation and in the end fear of expulsion. Ekstra Bladet has occasionally spoken to ex-witnesses and all of them has mentioned fear as the fundamental cause for their years of submission to the religious regime.

By Brian Askvig

The absolute worst thing that can happen to a believing Witness is to be disfellowshiped. It means that they are regarded as spiritually dead. No one greets them, their relatives ignore them. Their whole existence is ripped apart.

This happens, according to former”elder” Bill Bowen to at least 60,000 Witnesses a year. Some for only minor divergences from the Watchtower “way”, for instance smoking a cigarette, says Bowen.

Also milder disciplinary punishment keeps the Witnesses in check and robs them of any critical sense. They can be denied ”privileges” in the congregation like handling the microphone during meetings, or making comments during Watchtower “studies”.

The removal of such “rights” is a sign that a Witness has brought shame upon Jehovah. It is a public humiliation, which robs the Witness in question of all prestige in the congregation.

- The WT set the standard so high that we feel eternal fear of Jehovah and guilt for not being good enough, says Mary Aquilar, which was expelled after a false accusation of adultery.

The Watchtower "Society" in the long run, is FAR
WORST than Waco, Texas,

The U.S. Government should Legally Demolish, the Brooklyn
Watchtower Headquarters, and all the Watchtower Branches worldwide.

so all we are is some vicious organization bent on...what? what is our motive in this? We are model citizens, we pay our taxes, hardly ever commit crimes. Yet we are some cultist movement trying to subjugate the whole world. You take what a bunch of disgruntled ppl say over members who are happy with their religion. You believe propaganda over truth, which in fact makes you seem gullible. I laugh at your accusations. Go talk to a real JW and quit getting your info from apostates.

Originally posted by Jwjames111
so all we are is some vicious organization bent on...what? what is our motive in this? We are model citizens, we pay our taxes, hardly ever commit crimes. Yet we are some cultist movement trying to subjugate the whole world. You take what a bunch of disgruntled ppl say over members who are happy with their religion. You believe propaganda over truth, which in fact makes you seem gullible. I laugh at your accusations. Go talk to a real JW and quit getting your info from apostates.

You don't vote - in that you are horible citezen. And the documented instances of child abuse and covers up are numerous. If you consider breaking up families being a good citezen then you are already drinking the kool aide.

Cultists exist for the institution. The elders of your church have you so fooled that you are buying all their garbage in the name of god. You really should go to the web sites that document this stuff. I guarantee you will recognize a lot of the goings on.

http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=NEWS1

echo, did you know you are more fanatical in your athiesm than the vast majority of christians are in their religion? fanatics do not think clearly, and are irrational. you might believe that if you do not believe in god that you can not be a religious fanatic, but I believe you are a anti-religious fanatic. you would swear upon your soul (if you have one) that god was a sky fairy, and scream until you were blue in the face to prove it. does taht sound familiar? you are a zealot, or an anti-zealot more like.

Echo I once again say this. To an atheist who refuses to believe in God it is easy to see their points and impossible to see ours. Your argument is totally partial and you are unwilling to even fathom our side. Me and DrewM debated a while back on these similar issues. At least he took the time to research our religion from both sides. therefore our debate was at least intelligent. this debate is stupid because you refuse to bend. So therefore I really dont' want to debate with you.

Wrong again. Three years of studying theology gives me a little up on what religion is all about. And I have studied yours, with a few exceptions, it is one of the most repressive christian sects there is

Did you even bother to read some of the documented experiences that were on that web site?

Why should I? I have heard most of them. And it is obvious from your post that you have never really researched our religion. The things we believe in and the things you THINK we believe in are totally off base. You speak no truth, just lies and misinterpretations. With every post you write about us the less respect I have for you. What is theology except some mans attempt to explain the unexplainable. Are you so gullible as to accept wht could possibly be a bunch of lies. But then again you do believe everything you read on the net about JW's. you act as if you have never heard of propaganda. There is perhaps more misinformation about JW's thn any religion in the world, and why? Because we're different than the norm. And most ppl hate difference. You speak of tolerance but to be tolerant you cannot be totally partial. You are so partial your mind is blinded and you are waging your own personal vendetta against religin, JW's in particular. I care not what you think or what you have read. You have no faith. You speak without logic. Youve subjugated both. THerefore what are you. Drink your own Kool Aide.

I said absolutly nothing about what you believe in, onlyhow you believe. Never even touched on the theology of your sect. Nice try though. All I ever mentioned was the acts of terror and the fear used to keep people believeing.

And it is obvious that you don't care what others think. Otherwise you wouldn't continue to tresspass and harrass people when so many people have stated how much it disturbs them.

Show me were I spoke of tolerance?

jwjames- "There is perhaps more misinformation about JW's thn any religion in the world"

I think that Islam followers and Jewish people and a few other smaller religions would argue this with you. You guys are professional religious victims but people who have been real victims and truly persecuted laugh at this stuff. (And yes, I know that JW's were rounded up by the nazi's along with gypsies and jews).

I never expected you to read that stuff. It would open your eyes and that would cause you to have to question your faith and then you would be sent to hell and my oh my what a bother the truth is to you.

I don't care if you have no respect for me. Can you not see that your religion sets you up to be disrespected. Not by the fact that you believe in god, but by the fact that you have chosen a religion that is what? Maybe 100 years old at the most? That cheats children out of the joys of childhood, that breaks up families and that makes a career out of harrassing people.

It isn't what you believe, it is how you believe that put most people off.

You once again seem to pick and choose what you want to respond to. Bot no bother. As I said before, youre mind id made up. why are you even debating me in a "Trinity" post? The Bible says much about us being disrespected but, thats right, you dont believe in it. Nor have you even taken the time YET to find out what we truly believe in. You know bits and pieces but not enough to debate intelligently, only to rave. Your story is one-sided. I grow tired of this argument. If you want to debate this further start another post were everybody can join in. Otherwise im finished.

I know all about your religion. I studied it in theology classes. They actually had an entire quarters class on JW's alone because of the comparative value to the main stream religions.

You are right, my mind is made up and I have no desire to argue the validity of your cult with you.

You would be surprised to know that I think JW's are the least of this worlds worry's when it comes to reigions. The reason? Because you do not vote and therefore have no way of shoving your doctrine down our throats through legal avenues (for example the catholics and their stand on choice, etc). I would love it if all christians didn't vote.

Enjoy your journey.

Originally posted by Echo2

Show me were I spoke of tolerance?


OK...

You guys should be ashamed of yourselfs. First off, There is nothing wrong with not being comfortable talking about sexuality with a child. So the fact that Trav is uncomfortable talking about homosexuality to his son is not unreasonable. He also has the right to believe it is sinfull or whatever his religion teaches. You guys invalidate his feelings just because you don't agree with him. I don't agree with him on this issue either, but I understand how he could feel this way.

You will not help him to find a common ground between his feelings and society's quickly changeing values about this subject, by discounting his feelings and getting in his face.

It isn't what you believe, it is how you believe that put most people off.

Not to mention how you express those beliefs...

Someone once gave me some good advice on how to deal with people so I'll pass it along...

My intention was to make you guys take a look at your behavior. Apparantly something you are unable or unwilling to do. The point was, if you want to make an impact on Travs thinking. i.e. give him a reason to question what he believes, jumping down his throat, calling him names and putting him on the defensive is not the way to do it. I know this because it wasn't very long ago that I felt the same way he did about gays. Talking to him as an equal and asking him questions that will make him think about his values are better ways to get someone to question their position. He may not ever do it, but jumping in his face and calling him names certainly isn't the way to have a intellegent conversation about anything.

Yes, but it doesn't work with cultists. They are so brainwashed they don't even see the behavior. Kind of hard to look at something one doesn't see.