Like Us?

Before you get offended, I don't intend this to be an offensive topic, cause I know there are many out there that place their faith in a omnipotent loving Creator, so please bear with me while I explore this question.

I have a child who suffers a lot from a spastic nuerological movement disorder. The path we have been on caring for her and working out solutions for her stiffness and discomfort have made me really reflective, about God and his Purposes.

Anyway this morning when cooking breakfast, the Christian Idea that "man is made in God's image" prompted me on this thinking trail.......if so, if we are created in his image, does that mean the He or she is also imperfect and flawed? The idea that god is loving and forgiving is a popular idea, but is there more to it? If God is like me does that mean that He is nurturing and caring, and tries to do his best? Does that also mean that he might be sometimes seflfish and careless, or maybe cranky?

For me I guess this possibility may be appealing to me for this reason. WHen I see my daughter struggle to move and keep up with her sister, and when I see her limbs and muscles in a constant painful, twisting tug of war it is difficult for me to accept that a loving allpowerful Creator would intentially cause a child to suffer, then stand by to see how she makes out with it and how her parents come up with solutions for This one. It is too cruel an act for someone with such power and control to stand by and allow it too continue and progress without intervening. If God was allpowerful AND loving, how simple would it be to make the decision, that hey, maybe this idea of creating children with the inability to walk or play or care for themself isn't such a good idea? A god like that, a person can get mad at and resent after a while, wouldn't you think?

If there is an idea that God or the Creator has limited control over his creation (think like seamonkies......you can add them to the water and initialize their lives, but you can't control their decisions or how they interact with oneanother), then isn't it easier to love him for his dumbass mistakes like oops this baby is in pain?

It would be easier to forgive him and not hate him if the reason he isn't fixing her isn't because he won't it's because he can't.

I don't know I have more thoughts on this, but I'll throw this one out there for now. I don't want to lose the flow, or get off topic before it really even starts........

Any thoughts on this? Is this just crazy?

The Bible says that God is perfect. Therfore your stance is wrong.

He doesn't fix humans because he won't. Plain and simple.

creetwins asks:
Is God a Dumbass........?

hint: think about yourself then answer the question.

Anyway this morning when cooking breakfast, the Christian Idea that "man is made in God's image"

Does that mean god is a mixture of 1/4 white, 1/4 black, 1/4 brown, 1/4 yellow? That'd be pretty weird wouldn't it?

The Bible says that God is perfect. Therfore your stance is wrong.
That is your belief. Maybe you should have said I believe you may be wrong.



hint: think about yourself then answer the question.

Is that your idea of a smart and sensitive remark? I didn't ask for personal judgements on who you may think I am, I only asked about God. Come to me when ya got something good.

Does that mean god is a mixture of 1/4 white, 1/4 black, 1/4 brown, 1/4 yellow?

You forgot Red :D

Originally posted by creetwins
That is your belief. Maybe you should have said I believe you may be wrong.

Sorry. That'd be the correct way to say it.

:(

Originally posted by creetwins
You forgot Red :D
Red?

http://www.sonypictures.com.br/images/3834.jpg

God's a DUMBASS. :D

Commie red?

Native American red........you know, the forgotten people? The people even political correctness doesnt protect for some reason.

Originally posted by creetwins
Like Us?

Before you get offended, I don't intend this to be an offensive topic, cause I know there are many out there that place their faith in a omnipotent loving Creator, so please bear with me while I explore this question.

hmmmmmmmm, is God a dumba**? some folks may see this as being offensive right from the get go.

I have a child who suffers a lot from a spastic nuerological movement disorder. The path we have been on caring for her and working out solutions for her stiffness and discomfort have made me really reflective, about God and his Purposes.

You are not the only one with a problem, there are millions out there with one type of problem or another. Maybe God doesn't have the time to baby sit each individual???

Anyway this morning when cooking breakfast, the Christian Idea that "man is made in God's image"

I find this funny because, this is a human teaching about an allmighty force that no living human has ever met.

prompted me on this thinking trail.......if so, if we are created in his image, does that mean the He or she is also imperfect and flawed?

maybe so, or maybe our idea of perfection is not the creaters.

The idea that god is loving and forgiving is a popular idea, but is there more to it?

This is a human emotion and alot of folks like to believe that someone is watching over them.

If God is like me does that mean that He is nurturing and caring, and tries to do his best?

Once again why would an allmighty power have to be like a human?

Does that also mean that he might be sometimes seflfish and careless, or maybe cranky?

If God is God then why does he/she/it have to have the same emotions as a human?

For me I guess this possibility may be appealing to me for this reason. WHen I see my daughter struggle to move and keep up with her sister, and when I see her limbs and muscles in a constant painful, twisting tug of war it is difficult for me to accept that a loving allpowerful Creator would intentially cause a child to suffer, then stand by to see how she makes out with it and how her parents come up with solutions for This one.

It does suck when we have to see a loved one in pain, but I allways try to remember the hold saying "it is better to have lived and loved, then not to have lived at all"

It is too cruel an act for someone with such power and control to stand by and allow it too continue and progress without intervening. If God was allpowerful AND loving, how simple would it be to make the decision, that hey, maybe this idea of creating children with the inability to walk or play or care for themself isn't such a good idea?

OR just maybe God created us and gave us the power to create for ourselfs. So maybe he just doesn't want to babysit, maybe he would rather just keep creating.

A god like that, a person can get mad at and resent after a while, wouldn't you think?

This is exactly why I got away from Christians because all that was ever preached was God works in mysterious ways and that if I didn't love him then I would go to hell. There is more to the allmighty then what humans want or need.

If there is an idea that God or the Creator has limited control over his creation (think like seamonkies......you can add them to the water and initialize their lives, but you can't control their decisions or how they interact with oneanother), then isn't it easier to love him for his dumbass mistakes like oops this baby is in pain?

Why love or hate him? why not just except him as the creater?

It would be easier to forgive him and not hate him if the reason he isn't fixing her isn't because he won't it's because he can't.

Or maybe that he gave us{humans} life and just doesn't feel he needs to baby sit.

I don't know I have more thoughts on this, but I'll throw this one out there for now. I don't want to lose the flow, or get off topic before it really even starts........

Any thoughts on this? Is this just crazy? ]

I don't know if this is what you wanted to hear but it is just my 2cents worth.

I have never been able to wrap my mind around the idea of an all powerful being with an agenda. If an entity is all powerful, why does it have a need to be worshipped?

2nd Commandment; Verses 4-6: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

The second part of this is what really throws me. Can anyone explain this insanity?

I have a dog, the dog doesn’t do what I want so instead of killing it (too quick) or beating it to within an inch of its life (to easy) or taking it to behavior classes (not enough sport?) I decide that I am going to breed it and torture its puppies for generations to come. Letting them die of starvation and disease.

To create something with free will, insist it worship you, and then punish it for not doing so is pure insanity.

To create a being with intelligence and logic and then insist it believe in you on “faith” alone is insanity.

To create a being with intelligence and logic and then leave ancient books with hundreds of contradictory passages and hundreds of dubious analogies for that being to try and decipher is cruel.

To allow for thousands of years, children and adults to die over squabbles of whether it exists is heartless, cruel and cold blooded.

If this entity exists, it is not loving or good and certainly doesn’t deserve to be worshiped. It should be hated and feared. Maybe Satan has pulled off a huge practical joke on all these people who think they are worshipping an entity that is good and loving.

I see nothing good and loving about this creature. I keep hearing about it being good and loving but have yet to witness any evidence that it gives a rats ass about human beings.

Just my oppinion.

To create a being with intelligence and logic and then insist it believe in you on “faith” alone is insanity.
He didn't. He created two mindless airheads. Putting the tree there is rather confusing... but it is a story. Anyways, the snake just had to convince two people who were dumber than a doornob to eat the fruit. We didn't get our intelligence until we listened to the snake. Wise choice, I say.
That happens in all of the creation myths I can remember, we have one god who decides to ditch the rest and give the humans that were created intelligence. Sometimes the act is simplified to fire. The dissenting gods were all punished for it too.

Maybe Satan has pulled off a huge practical joke on all these people who think they are worshipping an entity that is good and loving.
In my opinion, I think the satans of all the religions are the good ones. Not the creator god.

BOrg, that's too cute....:)



You are not the only one with a problem, there are millions out there with one type of problem or another.

Oh I know that, and I am not angry every day, it's just the really hard ones that cause me to wonder WTF?



Maybe God doesn't have the time to baby sit each individual??? So maybe he just doesn't want to babysit, maybe he would rather just keep creating. Or maybe that he gave us{humans} life and just doesn't feel he needs to baby sit.

Maybe if he could come over and babysit once in awhile I could have some time to think and wouldn't get so mad at him from time to time...

Honestly? I have no defined stance on god's purpose I'm all over the map. Usually I am not angry, and see the beauty in all his creations, but just like the human I am I have my moments of weakness, sadness and hurt. I guess I am looking for a way to come to terms with the randomness of it all, and to let go of some of the mounting anger I have. I don't feel like there is a creator watching over me all the time and agree with many of Maddog's statements.

It is man who put a human face on God.



I don't know if this is what you wanted to hear but it is just my 2cents worth.

I only want to hear what you think.

There are many ways to look at it.

-- Christianity preferred a god similar to humans, who is omnipotent and loving, and had no problem with the illogical consequences that followed from observation.

-- We look like god and have similar emotions, like getting angry and jealous. Therefore, while not neccessarily a dumbass, god might be very similar to a normal, perhaps extra loving, person given omnipotent power. In this case, it follows he will naturally do dumb things from time to time.

-- But if you think about it, there are intrinsic problems with omnipotent power. To name one, god can reverse process, stop time, or divide himself up, and therefore in any manner or ways he WILL be able to micromanage every individual. And in case of doing dumb things that he regrets later on, it can always be reversed.

-- God's power is indeed limited. How limited remains open for discussion. This solves the contradiction involving omnipotence.

-- God does not operate the Christian way. Or, there is no god. But that would be outside your topic's frame.

-- We are not like god at all, the sentence from bible has been misleading. The shape, working, wants, and thinking process of an omnipotent being cannot be cogitated reasonably. But other than that, god operates in Christian way generally.

One thing everyone has forgot to mention is that God's time is the same as our own...it may not be that God has totally abandoned your daughter infact, ofcourse it isnt. Of course it isnt that he hasnt the power to fix her with the snap of his fingers, God loves and cares for your daughter just as much as he does everyone else. You have got to begin by trusting in God through faith and prayer, and eventually in God's time, he will answer your prayers. :)

Originally posted by Echo2 ]I have never been able to wrap my mind around the idea of an all powerful being with an agenda. If an entity is all powerful, why does it have a need to be worshipped?

exactly, but one never knows.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,

I allways found this interesting, if there is only 1 God then why would a christian God be jealous? Would a God really have such a silly emotion?



I have a dog, the dog doesn’t do what I want so instead of killing it (too quick) or beating it to within an inch of its life (to easy) or taking it to behavior classes (not enough sport?) I decide that I am going to breed it and torture its puppies for generations to come. Letting them die of starvation and disease.

So every single puppy as died of starvation and disease? if that is the case then there should be no more puppies to torture.

To create something with free will, insist it worship you, and then punish it for not doing so is pure insanity.

Is this the word of God or the word of a group of humans trying to gain power?

To create a being with intelligence and logic and then insist it believe in you on “faith” alone is insanity.

not really.

To create a being with intelligence and logic and then leave ancient books with hundreds of contradictory passages and hundreds of dubious analogies for that being to try and decipher is cruel.

If these books where from God, it is/was not Its fault for how the human has destroyed and interpreted things.

To allow for thousands of years, children and adults to die over squabbles of whether it exists is heartless, cruel and cold blooded.

Is this the humans fault or the Gods, along with everything else, he gave us the freedom to have our own thoughts. How we act or turn those thoughts into violence is our doing, not Gods.

If this entity exists, it is not loving or good and certainly doesn’t deserve to be worshiped.

It is not bad or disloving either. When It is worshiped it is done with strong HUMAN emotion. So is it Gods fault humans get over emotional or is it the humans fault?

It should be hated and feared.

Feared maybe, hated why?

Maybe Satan has pulled off a huge practical joke on all these people who think they are worshipping an entity that is good and loving.

Maybe satan and hell were invented by humans to get more followers?

I see nothing good and loving about this creature. I keep hearing about it being good and loving but have yet to witness any evidence that it gives a rats ass about human beings.

I don't know if human emotions should be mixed in with an allmighty power? Whether It is loved or hated does not matter.

Just my oppinion.

That is all anyone can give, after all NO one has proof. I also think you are using to much other human influence and not enough belief. A creater does not have to give human emotion, maybe there is something greater at work here instead of just the human point of view.

Originally posted by creetwins
Oh I know that, and I am not angry every day, it's just the really hard ones that cause me to wonder WTF?

I know exactly what you are talking about, at one time{years ago} I hated and then just all together quit believing. Since then I have realized it was not a Gods fault, but my own human emotion that was eating me up inside. There are forces at work that we may never understand, it does not mean that God {or Gods} is not loving or is hatefull, it only means we don't understand.

Maybe if he could come over and babysit once in awhile I could have some time to think and wouldn't get so mad at him from time to time...

:) wouldn't it be nice if there was a higher power that would make all of humanities saddness go away? This is why I use the word baby sit, most humans would like to believe that someone will allways be watching over them. Think back to how mad you would get when Mom and Pop would run around behind you saying don't do that you'll get hurt, etc.... Do we want freedom and to be ourselfs, or do we want to be under someone{something} elses control?

Honestly? I have no defined stance on god's purpose I'm all over the map.

Maybe your just thinking to hard about it and letting emotion get in the way???

Usually I am not angry, and see the beauty in all his creations, but just like the human I am I have my moments of weakness, sadness and hurt.

VERY understandable

I guess I am looking for a way to come to terms with the randomness of it all, and to let go of some of the mounting anger I have. I don't feel like there is a creator watching over me all the time and agree with many of Maddog's statements.

The problem is that you are building up an anger that won't release. Your asking for help from a power that we don't understand. I think the problem is how society has been raised to believe in a loving creater when it is possible It is just a creater.

It is man who put a human face on God.

VERY true, maybe the wolf or bird see God in there image :eek:

Creetwins, would it be appropriate to ask your ailing daughters first name?

No, i have no problem, Her name is Adria, and her twin is Alexa.

Thank you, have faith in the old ways.

DanFussel you can be so cryptic at times, but I think I know what you mean. I have come to understand two different teachings in my life and The natural one that speaks to me is the traditional native teachings. Still this was also accompanied by the christian teachings that dominate our society. They still affect me, as I feel guilty way deep down for even titling my post so, and asking such questions. This does not feel natural to me. Why should one feel guilt for being what they are, and wondering what they do?

The ways of nature are eternal. Religions of men come and go.
Do not feel guilt for feeling what is natural.
Does the eagle feel guilt as he takes his prey?
Does the Swan feel embarrasment from her beauty?
Nature can heal.
Be in touch with-in yourself. Your answers will come.

This poetry hubbish is all fine and dandy...but what does it mean???:confused:

posted by Dan Fussell
The ways of nature are eternal. Religions of men come and go.
Do not feel guilt for feeling what is natural.
Does the eagle feel guilt as he takes his prey?
Does the Swan feel embarrasment from her beauty?
Nature can heal.
Be in touch with-in yourself. Your answers will come.posted by Dan Fussell

Thank you for that, you know the answers seem like they are at the tip of my fingers sometimes.

I hear this a lot....."special babies are given to special people". I know this is a loving sentiment meant to comfort but I really don't feel special. I don't really pray much anymore, not like before. My prayers sounded too much like begging eg: "please God, give me the strength" "please let Adria find some rest" "please let me make it through another sleepless night with my wits intact" "please give me the power to comfort her" "please allow my physical strength to hold up to restrain, carry, and position her" and so on.......Now I just give thanks. I am glad she was given to me instead of someone who would lose patience and treat her badly. I am glad she has a loving twin. I am glad I have accomplilshed the hurdles I had in the past to prepare me for this journey.

Anger:
I find that it waxes and wanes. It is never constant, because I have too many joys in raising these funny girls. However, I am fueled by love and anger to give me the power to make noise and advocate for the services she needs and the support I need, and for her to recieve the same opportunities as her twin.

I find my anger can be as Powerful a tool as my love.

This poetry hubbish is all fine and dandy...but what does it mean???

I don't know if I can explain it, I would take some time for me to form the words, but it makes Perfect sense to me.:)

No explanations, this was for Creetwins and Adria.
May they have a good nights sleep.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
No explanations, this was for Creetwins and Adria.
May they have a good nights sleep.

That was a fine thing you did Dan...I doff my chapeau...

But I wish God would Eliminate all human
suffering, it upsets me
TERRIBLY when I hear about
human suffering and Misery in this world.

My Prayer: Dear God
Please Eliminate all human suffering, TODAY if
Possible.