Unable to emulate Sen. John Kerry who has made his fellow Viet Nam comrades a part of his election campaign, known as “The Band of Brothers,” President Bush will surround himself with his political comrades: “The Band of Draft Dodgers.”

Headed by cowards and hypocrites such as Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfelt, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Bennett, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Tom Delay, Jerry Falwell, and other prominent Draft-Dodging Republicans, Bush and his “Band of Draft Dodgers” will fan out across the USA in the coming months to stomp for President Bush.

Their message is very simple: America needs to be lead by intelligent individuals. The men who make up President Bush’s “Band of Draft-Dodgers” are extremely intelligent men who early in life learned that there is always some other sucker that can take your place in the military, provided that one knows how to manipulate the system.

On the other hand, those who choose to serve their country via the draft or enlistment clearly display a mental condition that indicates a lack of common sense and a flare for danger, two negative qualities that do not make for a good President and Commander-in-Chief.

feel free to throw yourself into that group smart guy, oh and dont forget slick willy.

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks

Here ya go -- the official Chickenhawk database and all your favorites are in there. ROTF.

Originally posted by Travh20
feel free to throw yourself into that group smart guy, oh and dont forget slick willy. you know, what you guys dont understand is that the reason that we are even talking about anything that has to do with the draft and presidency is because when clinton was running, all republicans said that his service record or lack there of, made him unqualified, then here comes bush, and then the double standard. and if you consider what bush did, service, then so is clintons........because they both did ZILCH !! but i dont understand how you defend one and castrate the other.....they are one in the same. bush used his daddy's wealth to stay away, and because clinton didnt have that,so he ran........that makes them both COWARDS............but that is why dems talk about this..........but i dont think you have to have been in the service to be a good prez.......as a matter of fact, most of the guys i know from vietnam, wouldnt make good presidents......too much baggage........just the guys i know. but then, blacks had it A LITTLE DIFFERENT when they came home....

Originally posted by Lance_Zuma
Unable to emulate Sen. John Kerry who has made his fellow Viet Nam comrades a part of his election campaign, known as “The Band of Brothers,” President Bush will surround himself with his political comrades: “The Band of Draft Dodgers.”

Headed by cowards and hypocrites such as Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfelt, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Bennett, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Tom Delay, Jerry Falwell, and other prominent Draft-Dodging Republicans, Bush and his “Band of Draft Dodgers” will fan out across the USA in the coming months to stomp for President Bush.

Their message is very simple: America needs to be lead by intelligent individuals. The men who make up President Bush’s “Band of Draft-Dodgers” are extremely intelligent men who early in life learned that there is always some other sucker that can take your place in the military, provided that one knows how to manipulate the system.

On the other hand, those who choose to serve their country via the draft or enlistment clearly display a mental condition that indicates a lack of common sense and a flare for danger, two negative qualities that do not make for a good President and Commander-in-Chief. oh, by the way............damn good points

Originally posted by Travh20
TED KENNEDY'S CAR HAS KILLED MORE PEOPLE THEN MY GUN
is it THEN your gun did more killing, or is it that it killed more THAN your gun ? oh, but let me not question your intelligence...............TRAVH !

is it THEN your gun did more killing, or is it that it killed more THAN your gun ? oh, but let me not question your intelligence...............TRAVH !

What the hell.................................are you talking about?

Originally posted by The Praetorian
What the hell.................................are you talking about?
He's making fun of the grammar error in Trav's signature. You know what they say...when one stoops to insulting grammatical errors to prove a point, one has no real argument left.

My bad...

Originally posted by The Praetorian
My bad...
How your bad? HE'S the one making fun of grammatical errors to prove a point here, not you!

And for the record, when I point out grammatical mistakes, it's all in jest. :D

Originally posted by korg
you know, what you guys dont understand is that the reason that we are even talking about anything that has to do with the draft and presidency is because when clinton was running, all republicans said that his service record or lack there of, made him unqualified, then here comes bush, and then the double standard. and if you consider what bush did, service, then so is clintons........because they both did ZILCH !! but i dont understand how you defend one and castrate the other.....they are one in the same. bush used his daddy's wealth to stay away, and because clinton didnt have that,so he ran........that makes them both COWARDS............but that is why dems talk about this..........but i dont think you have to have been in the service to be a good prez.......as a matter of fact, most of the guys i know from vietnam, wouldnt make good presidents......too much baggage........just the guys i know. but then, blacks had it A LITTLE DIFFERENT when they came home....

George Bush has more time in uniform then all the liberals on this board (except dop) combined. the guy did learn to fly a jet fighter plane. he got an honorable discharge. All of this "he didnt do squat" talk is out of line. was he in vietnam? no. did his unit get sent to vietnam? no. you can no more blame bush for not going to vietnam anymore then you can blame kerry for skipping out of vietnam early. If bushs unit was called to go to vietnam and he went AWOL then you would have a point. But consider this, being AWOL for a month in the NG doesnt really mean much, considering they meet 2 days a month. I am not endorisng ot showing up at assigned times, but I am tired of all this AWOL talk. As overdose is so fond of saying about Kerrys questionable purple hearts "if they gave them to him he earned them", the same can be said for Bush and his honorable discharge. he earned it. there is a big difference between AWOL and desertion. not showing up to your base on time is AWOL, not showing up the day your unit ships off to war is desertion. AWOL is an article 15 offense, desertion is punishable by death. I would not be proud of getting away with going AWOL, but I wouldnt be proud of being able bodied and skipping out of a war early on a technicality either.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
He's making fun of the grammar error in Trav's signature. You know what they say...when one stoops to insulting grammatical errors to prove a point, one has no real argument left. thats not true borg...travh and i go back and forth a lot, and he's always talking about someone's lack of intelligence. but this was done in jest also. but im sure travh got my point. i see he changed it........lol. travh and i have fun here...i look for his name to pick a fight.....he's cool

Originally posted by Travh20
George Bush has more time in uniform then all the liberals on this board (except dop) combined.

Let me see, he spent a few months in some southern state, never leaving US soil and not showing up for duty all the time.

I on the other hand spent six years of my life in uniform and four of them were spent oversees.

He puts down a man who VOLUNTEERED to go to vietnem. He puts down a man because the government awarded him metals and the man didn't loose a limb or die to get them.

Of course, we all know that anything that goes wrong in this administration is Clintons fault so it must be clintons fault that bush is a weenie chicken shit and devaues those who actually did fight for our country.

He volunteered because he couldn't get exempted from service. Real courageous. You could just as well say that i volunteer to go to school and do my homework.

Originally posted by Evil Homer
He volunteered because he couldn't get exempted from service. Real courageous. You could just as well say that i volunteer to go to school and do my homework.

Yes, he volunteered because by volunteering you can pick the branch you want to serve in. If drafted they send you where they want you.

Bush on the other hand got daddy to buy him a place in the guard so he wouldn't risk getting shot at. Run little chicken, run.

why do you insist on insulting everyone who ever served in the national guard by saying its for sissys and well to do cowards?

Watch out for this one, Trav, she's Wily. Service in the National Guard is for sissies, but she fantasizes about seeing two dudes pump each other. Word of advice: don't question her intellect...she drives a Lexus, and works for the Red Cross. :rolleyes:

I pick my nose too when nobody's watching.

There's a shocker.

so echo is a west coast limosine liberal? thats a real shock :rolleyes: she probably makes more money then both of us combined and whines about tax cuts.

Sounds about right...

Originally posted by Travh20
so echo is a west coast limosine liberal? thats a real shock :rolleyes: she probably makes more money then both of us combined and whines about tax cuts.

Funny Trav, how oblivious you are to things. She has already stated she has voted for more Republican candidates, then Democrats. You are just simply wrong.

ya, I have never heard a liberal claim something like that to try and gain some instant credibility before :rolleyes: maybe one day you will grow up and realize that not all liberals tell the truth and not all conservatives are liars.

Originally posted by Travh20
ya, I have never heard a liberal claim something like that to try and gain some instant credibility before

You can choose to live in your world of non-reality, and assume she’s lying, but that is just so silly of you. Oh well, it’s your choice.

of course she isnt lying, she is pro kerry! nobody pro kerry would ever say something false or disengenious, only the dirty republicans lie, thats what mommy and daddy say :rolleyes: you ahve a lot to learn boy

She could be lying, never denied that. You have a lot to learn, Trav. I’m surprised you haven’t learned it yet. But I personally will believe her, and you won’t. And that’s okay, because you will never believe that a Kerry supporter may have, god forbid, voted Republican most of their life. But we can’t convince you of that…and that’s okay. It’s not as if we really care…have a good day.

the 15 year old boy telling me I have a lot to learn. :rolleyes: how about when you get out of 10th grade we talk about having a lot to learn, until then stick to your political regurgitations

Originally posted by Travh20
the 15 year old boy telling me I have a lot to learn. :rolleyes: how about when you get out of 10th grade we talk about having a lot to learn, until then stick to your political regurgitations
Ad hominem attack, Trav. Any 15-year-old's argument is as valid as yours.

But, he is putting it in the context of having a lot to learn. While Overdose's political arguments may be valid, Trav still has more experiance in life. While Trav still has a lot to learn about life, as does everyone, it is not Overdose's place to tell him.

I suppose it would be OK for my 4 year old son to tell overdose and borg they have a lot to learn. I am sure they would take that advice seriously.

Trav, no matter what age you are you have a lot more to learn. You will continue to learn your whole life. I was simply saying, you haven’t learned what I would have thought you would have in your years of living…that’s all.

Oh, and more power to your son. If he thinks I have a lot to learn, that’s his opinion…as is mine towards you.

LOL, sure overdose. so if I call you an asshole then you say something about it all I have to do is say "well everyones an asshole, we are all assholes" enough with your childish head games man, I see through you like I see through glass. There was some guy on TV last night that said something that reminded me of you and your vague/ specific way of double talk. SOmeone asked him about the wall isreal is building to stop terrorists, and they said much of the world considers it a "wall of apartied", then the other guys answer was "well, actually, 75 % of it is actually a fence, not a wall", i was rolling, thinking thats something overdose would say to try and get out of some idiotic staement he just made.

Trav, no matter what age you are you have a lot more to learn. You will continue to learn your whole life. I was simply saying, you haven’t learned what I would have thought you would have in your years of living…that’s all.

Excellent observation, Overdose. I'm sure Trav needs wise input from a 15-year-old schoolboy to help him learn valid "life lessons". I'm totally with you on that one...too bad society isn't.

At least Borg doesn't have his head up his ass.

Any 15-year-old's argument is as valid as yours.

Not according to ANY civilized society. Still don't believe me??? Then go vote for Kerry. :rolleyes:

dont worry, I thought the same thing when I as 15. I knew as much as anyone else, I knew what I was talking about, iwas big, I was bad. wait until these guys are 29 and a 15 year old tells tehm they have a lot to learn about life. see, we have been 15, they havent been 29. just like I havent been 40, so I dont o around telling pagan he needs to grow up or has a lot to learn.

I'm 50, and I still have a lot to learn.

However there is something to be said for life experience.

just like I havent been 40, so I dont o around telling pagan he needs to grow up or has a lot to learn.

You'd think that was a fairly logical assumption, but his resilliancy to logic is baffeling. I would have never squared off to an adult by telling them that "they need to learn a few things". In my family, my father would have belted my ass if I had. It's just the raw presumption that gets my goat here.

Originally posted by Travh20
dont worry, I thought the same thing when I as 15. I knew as much as anyone else, I knew what I was talking about, iwas big, I was bad. wait until these guys are 29 and a 15 year old tells tehm they have a lot to learn about life. see, we have been 15, they havent been 29. just like I havent been 40, so I dont o around telling pagan he needs to grow up or has a lot to learn.

TRAV, and Praetorian, I have to say I,m supporting you on this cause, I am 40, and actually dont seem it or feel it, but WOW, when I am critized about something I know damm straight is a fact and a younger person trys to shove it down my thoat, I cant stand it, I get very pissed off !!!!We have done our dues in life, good life or bad life, we dont deserve the crap !!!!!!!!!!

Don't argue with OD then...

It's not so much that he's totally wrong, but just naive. He's a well-read kid with a lot to say, albeit, not always accurate which is substantiated by his unwillingness to make concessions when blatantly wrong. However, give him 10 years, and possibly, he'll come into his own.

Ya know what they say...all conservatives were at one point liberals who took the time to grow up! :)

I heard that all liberals were conservatives that took the time to listen to their conscience.

lol Guess it depends on what spin one listens to.


Is anyone else sick of this campaign? It started ealier than usual and is nastier than ussual.

I guess it depends on whether or not that particular individual wants to contribute to developing the US's ability to operate as an autonomous nation and worldwide superpower.

I heard that all liberals were conservatives that took the time to listen to their conscience.

BTW, that's a new one to me...Kids being conservative initially only to become liberal later on...you say a lot of humorous things, Echo, even if they're unintentional most of the time.

I was a conservative for years before becoming independant. It is not unussual at all. Two of my three brothers have turned away from the conservative way of thinking also. Many people raised in ultra conseravtive homes grow up believing one thing and then when they get out into the world and see how it really works they change their outlook.

There is nothing wrong with being conservtive or liberal. What is wrong is just blindly following one line of thought because that is what you were taught. Each individual needs to question and research for themselves, not just vote one way or the other because their parents did or their teacher told them to.

So...because you're a fundamental flip-flopper, you're better qualified to assess politics because of your inability to make a simple decision?

The two platforms are entirely different, and I'm wondering how you just decided, all of the sudden, to switch your positions completely. In your humble opinion, is this move good for political credibility, or do you think it makes you look like an idiot?

I always head this :

"if your not a liberal by the time you are 20 you ahve no heart, if your not a consservative by the time your 40 you have no brain"

why I may not agree totally with the exact ages, teh idea is there. I know of nobody who went from conservative to liberals. My mom and dad were both 1960's Santa Cruz hippies. Both are now conservatives. I must know 5 or 6 other people who are now conservative after being professed liberals their whole life. I think it is just something about portland oregon that turns people inot bleedignheart liberals. must be something in the water there. MYself, I have always been conservative minded since I can remember. I was never very politically active, or I should say I never really cared. I would vote for whoever had the most military experience (thats no lie). I voted for nader, i voted for gray davis. Not until the 2000 election happened and I saw that sore loser Gore trying to steal the election did I get really into it. Seeing the dems try and get the overseas military votes not counted becasue they knew 90% of them would be for bush really pissed me off for life. The only time the democrats care for deadlines is when it helps them. any other time deadlines can be overlooked witha little help form the liberal judges (like in the NJ senate race when they dropped torecelli and it as to late to name a replacement tehy jsut got a liberal jusge to give them more time, even though the law said the deadline had passed)

I think it is just something about portland oregon that turns people inot bleedignheart liberals

LOL... :D

I was thinking that very same thing last week.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
So...because you're a fundamental flip-flopper, you're better qualified to assess politics because of your inability to make a simple decision?

The two platforms are entirely different, and I'm wondering how you just decided, all of the sudden, to switch your positions completely. In your humble opinion, is this move good for political credibility, or do you think it makes you look like an idiot?

Re-assesing ones views is a sign of maturity. When we are so stuck in our idealogy that we no longer re-assess our thinkiong and question ourselfs then we are truly ignorant. You right wing neocons call it flip flopping because re-evaluating or re-thinking something is beyond your comprehension.

Having you think I am an idiot is truly ruining my day. (wringing hands and pacing)

I didn't call you an idiot...I just asked if you thought you were one by flipping sides. Big difference.

I don't see changing your political platform as a re-assessment of anything. I think it makes you look a little dumb, but you're entitled to your beliefs (or lack thereof). Questioning candidates is one thing, but switching platforms at 50 is definitely cause for questioning your intellect.

I'm glad we cleared this up... :)

First, I didn't switch platforms, I disassociated myself with the neocons. The republicans were becoming too into the whole god thing for me. I am an independant, which is not a switch in platforms. I still vote rep occasionally (actually most of the time).

Secondly, this didn't just happen at the age of 50. It was a change that happened over ten to twelve years and it was a number of years ago. The two major parties have changed over the last 30 years, it makes sense that reasonable, thinking people would re-evaluate which one thay want to associate with.

I would most likely vote republican in this election if bush wasn't running. I do not care for his fascism, his god involking, his lieing and his secrecy. I do not like the direction he is taking America. That doesn't meen I don't have a lot of republican leanings.

Many people vote a party line without thinking about what they are doing or who they are voting for or what the candidate stands for. I don't happen to be one of them.

Originally posted by The Praetorian

Ya know what they say...all conservatives were at one point liberals who took the time to grow up!


I don't see changing your political platform as a re-assessment of anything. I think it makes you look a little dumb

Apparently it's ok to change sides as long as you end up conservative. :rolleyes:

Apparently it's ok to change sides as long as you end up conservative.
By 40...that's about right. I’ll explain why, in my opinion, being a conservative isn’t so bad socially:

I know, literally, 15 multi, multi, multi millionaires, and they didn't get where they are by being stupid. I was raised by an upper-middle class family that would be considered by today’s standard as "backwards" and "old-fashioned" for their fundamental beliefs in god and country. I grew up in a wealthy neighborhood, and was loved and cared for by both my parents. My mother was a stay at home mom, while my dad earned more than sufficient income to support everyone living under his roof. He, along with most of our neighbors, and auspicious friends, served in the military, and developed an excellent work ethic because of it. He's a fairly staunch Republican as are almost all of the people I know. Religion isn't a bad thing, but for several of you who post on this forum, it's almost considered taboo. This nation IS a Christian nation, and by completely disregarding this simple fact, it puts us in severe danger of losing our national identity i.e. to throw away our history so we can “get with the times”. Christianity doesn't mean you are required to "bang" bibles to accept god as being an intricate part of our predominate culture. It's simply trying to bring moral parameters to the social frontlines that aren’t detrimental to our nation by recognizing that the morals which run amuck, are. Gay’s have a huge problem with this because the Christian right denounces homosexuality as an immoral and unnatural practice, and to a certain degree, I completely understand where they’re coming from. I believe if you can’t EVER produce children naturally, you’re of no use to society. On the other hand, I sympathize with the gays because I wouldn’t want to be persecuted for my malfunction, and Vile, you said it best, you can't switch sides because of it.

I’m all for the separation of church and free market enterprise, because it has no place in profit (well, maybe the Catholic church does, but I digress). However, it does play a specific roll in developing our national character, and that’s not so bad. This is a fundamental base in the GOP, and I can’t say I find that much fault in it. Our country is a currently a cesspool of single mothers, fatness, and stupidity, and to that accord, it needs to change. It’s not going to happen if we “tolerate” it…we need to crush it. Absolutely NO mercy for the non-producers! This includes the poor, the stupid, and violent criminals, who should all be weeded out like the parasites they are...

Prae - "I believe if you can’t EVER produce children naturally, you’re of no use to society. "

My daughter had a hysterectomy at age 19 due to cancer. She is in her final year of med school and would no doubt be delighted to know that she is of no use to society .

You really should read what you write before hitting the post button.

EAT ME.

If you noticed I used the words EVER and NATURALLY. Being that your daughter is most likely hetero, she is permitted to produce naturally; it's just that an unfortunate situation came to being that precluded her from having a child. Learn to read, dolt.

She can never produce a child naturally.


Learn to write, dolt.

Are you really that stupid as to not understand where I'm going with this argument? (or should this be considered a Rhetorical question?)

Rhetorical question, it is! :)

stop with the dramatics already, thats not what he meant.

THANK YOU! :)

OK, I'm stupid. What did you mean by "I believe if you can’t EVER produce children naturally, you’re of no use to society"?

What did you mean by "I believe if you can’t EVER produce children naturally, you’re of no use to society"?

DUH, like as in a man screwing another man, or a woman screwing another woman. You know, like as in never, EVER, being able to reproduce naturally. Get it NOW, or should I break it down further yet? :rolleyes:

For what it's worth, I understood the whole time ;) :D

But they can produce, they just choose not to. So what you meant was probubly - I believe if you "won't EVER produce children naturally, you’re of no use to society"

Then there are the gays that have children, they have produced naturally. Do then they loose their status of being of use when they decide not to boink the opposite sex anymore?

I just don't see the human experience as being only for reproduction. Procreating is a very small part of being human.

Unless you think we are all just baby making machines with no other reason for being here.

your right, perpetuating the species is of minor importance

In the scheme of things it is. We are more than baby making machines. You lower us to the level of animals that breed with no other reason for existance.

I think your god would be pretty upset if we had spent the last couple thousand years on earth doing nothing but breeding. No scientific advances, no written language, no medicines, no discoveries, just more and more and more babies cause reproduction is more important than mental awarness or curiosity or social conscience.

In the scheme of things it is. We are more than baby making machines. You lower us to the level of animals that breed with no other reason for existance. In what scheme, if certainly not the BIG one? Of course there is more to life than just simple procreation, like science, technology, industry, and developing humanity, but without the ability to perpetuate the species, it TOTALLY means nothing.

The one contribution you make on this planet...the ability to spread your gene pool, is of utmost importance to the human race. Sometimes, it doesn't always work out, but efforts have to be made to continue birthing children if we want to survive.

I've disagreed with others here about this, and I think I've muddied this thread enough.

So, back on topic...

How is anyone in Bush's cabinet a "draft dodger"? :)

Name: George W. Bush (R-TX)
Born: 1946
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: You know when a guy walks away from a National Guard obligation during wartime and gets away with it, he must come from "a good family." Not that his daddy had anything to do with his getting a Guard slot in the first place - oh, no ...

Name: Richard "Dick" Cheney (R-WY)
Born: 1942
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Says he had "other priorities." You bet he had other priorities. Imagine how early in life you must begin scheming to get away with what this guy has. He was too busy thinking about Halliburton to go fight Charlie.


Name: I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Born: 1950±
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby is Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff. He’s had a string of no-doubt well-paying government jobs in State and Defense. He’s also practiced law. In fact, he was Marc Rich’s lawyer for years. Yes — the Marc Rich whose pardon from President Clinton was excoriated by so many high and mighty Republicans. Maybe if Scooter had been a better lawyer, his client wouldn’t have needed that pardon. Speaking of legal questions, “Scooter” is alleged by some to have traded energy stocks while helping his buddy Dick Cheney cook up a new energy policy in secret. He’s also suspected of having inserted the bogus “Niger yellowcake” reference into the President’s State of the Union address. As if all that weren’t enough, he’s also a top suspect in the outing of CIA operative Valeria Plame. Clearly “Scooter” is a ballsy kind of guy, so it’s a complete mystery to us why, when he graduated from Phillips Andover in 1968, he didn’t enlist in the Marines or go Airborne instead of going to Yale.


Name: Karl Rove
Born: 1950
Employer: Baal
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: This little cherub was born on Christmas Day, 1950. Karl “Bush’s Brain” Rove ran George W.’s campaign, right down to the tiny detail of deciding Bush was going to run. The hardest part was convincing a horde of Republican skeptics that it could be done.

He is said to have said of his boss, he’s "the kind of candidate and officeholder political hacks like me wait a lifetime to be associated with."

Now Karl’s Senior White House advisor. If he really is “Bush’s Brain,” and if the fondest wishes of former US Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV come true, one fine day Karl will be “frogmarched out of the White House in mandcuffs.”

Will history record that event as “Bush’s Lobotomy?”


Name: Donald "The Don" Rumsfeld
Born: 1932
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Korea
Notes: When the shooting started in Korea Rummy here was either 18, or about to turn 18. Not to worry for him, though — he spent the war at Princeton, wearing a ROTC uniform. Once the war was over he flew jets for the Navy for a few years. Defenders of Rumsfeld will say he’s no chickenhawk — he served, and it’s not his fault the war ended before he got his commission. To which others answer, “plenty of farmers and mechanics and kids just out of high school served. Anyone as full of whatever that stuffing in him is, could have tried out for a battlefield commission.”


Name: Paul Wolfowitz
Born: 1943
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Deputy Secretary for Defense - yet another Bush administration man in the Pentagon who has no idea what it's like to wear a uniform. He got a BA at Cornell in 1965. Maybe if we'd had a guy as bright as he thinks he is in Vietnam, it would have turned out differently.


Name: William "Bill" Bennett
Born: 1943
Employer: Empower America
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Bill's occupation used to be "public scold," but since his gambling habit was exposed, he's a little less noisy on that front. Bill's a triple-crown winner as a former bureaucrat, a propagandist, and a barking head. (All barking heads are propagandists, but not all propagandists are barking heads.)


Name: Ann Coulter
Conflict Avoided: Desert Storm
Notes: Critics will howl that a woman can’t be a chickenhawk. In Ann Coulter’s case, that doesn’t matter; anyone with her level of bellicosity deserves to be held to a higher standard.


Name: Frank Gaffney
Born: 1953
Employer: Indeterminate
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Frank here is a very clever boy. Built a thing called the Center for Security Policy, which apparently keeps him in nice suits so he will look good in front of the TV cameras, which can't seem to get enough of him. As far as we can tell, Frank is a freelance salesman for the defense industry who is paid by an elaborately circuitous process. For all his obsession with the military, it's funny he never served.


Name: Rep. Newton Leroy "Newt" Gingrich (R-GA)
Born: June 17, 1943
Employer: Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: A virtuoso in the art of hypocrisy, the former Speaker of the House now claims the Vietnam War was a splendid idea, but at the time he opposed going himself. Newtie also speaks highly of morality, but as a serial adulterer he doesn’t want to get too close to it himself.


Name: Sean Hannity
Born: December, 1961
Employer: Rupert Murdoch
Conflict Avoided: Desert Storm
Notes: Plenty of guys his age were in Desert Storm - what's his excuse?


Name: David Limbaugh
Born: December 11, 1952
Employer: newspapers with low standards
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: David's no fool - he stayed in school! Straight from high school to college in '71, where he stayed 'till '75, when the war was safely over. Poly sci major, wouldn't you know? The least annoying of the Limbaugh brothers, but only because he's more obscure.


Name: Rush Limbaugh
Born: 1951
Employer: Yack Radio
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Where to begin ... a joke about the Hindenburg? No, let's go right to the reason he had to stay home from the war - the world's most famous anal cyst. He's denied it, but www.snopes.com, the Urban Legends Reference Pages, has got the goods on him.


Name: William "Bill" O'Reilly
Born: 1949
Employer: Rupert Murdoch
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Bill O’Reilly loves to come off as a straight-talking, blue-collar kind of guy. Funny, a lot of guys who fit that description and graduated high school the same year he did - 1967 - went straight to Vietnam. Not our Bill - he went to college. And he didn’t just go to college, he spent his junior year, 1969-1970, in London. He graduated in 1971, briefly exposing him to the draft again, but Bill was miraculously spared.


Name: Michael Reagan
Born: March 18, 1946
Employer: Yack Radio
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: What are the odds anyone would know who he is if everybody didn't know who his daddy was? What are the odds he would have escaped the draft if his name had been Manual Rodriguez?


Name: Michael Savage
Born: Unk.
Employer: UNK.
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: We're not sure if this frothing lunatic is still on the air. Didn't he get canned for saying all gays should contract AIDS and die? If only he could have channeled all that animosity against Ho Chi Minh - we'd be selling Big Macs in Vietnam today!


Name: Rep. Joseph "Joe" Scarborough (R-FL)
Born: April 9, 1963
Employer: MSNBC
Conflict Avoided: Desert Storm
Notes: A former Republican congresman (1995-2002) turned MSNBC motormouth, Joe qualifies as a politician and a barking head. Where were you during Desert Storm, pal?


Name: Spencer Abraham
Born: 1952
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Our Secretary of Energy was formerly the Senator from Detroit. In his failed run for re-election the auto industry gave him ,000 - more than it gave any other senatorial candidate. Now, there’s a guy who’s eager to promote alternative energy sources! Couldn’t muster up the gumption to take on Uncle Ho, though.


Name: Eliot Abrams
Born: 1948
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: T aptant Secretary of State, Elliott Abrams now holds a National Security Council staff position. This despite widespread feeling that he ought to be in jail somewhere. After all, he was convicted of lying to Congress about the Iran/Contra affair.


Name: Gary Bauer
Born: 1946
Employer: ouramericanvalues.org
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: A reliable cog in the Republican machine, a bureaucrat under Reagan, and later a preposterous candidate for president, Gary Bauer isn’t particularly combative - he’s no Ann Coulter. Diminutive and cherubic even in his fifties, he’s hardly the sort of recruit a drill sargent would see as a potential soldier. Which is just as well, because when he otherwise would have qualified for the Vietnam draft, he had a “vague physical problem” that got him a 1-Y draft classification - “draft only if the Canadians are crossing the border shooting.”


Name: John Bolton
Born: 1948
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Let’s see - he’s the Bush administration’s man for arms control, and he opposed the Anti-ABM treaty and the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. Got his start at State with help from Jesse Helms. Bolton had previously helped Helms get around campaign finance limits. For all his hawkish ways, he never found his way to Vietnam, though.


Name: Andrew "Andy" Card
Born: May 10, 1947
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Andy, as he likes to be called, used to be “the automotive industry’s main voice.” As such, he “lobbied the U.S. government against stricter fuel emissions standards.” Lobbying for the Chamber of Commerce, he “testified before Congress against the ‘Passengers' Bill of Rights.’” He got paid well enough for these services to the (business) community to be able to afford "nearly ,000 in campaign contributions in 1999-2000, including 1,000 each to fellow members of the new administration, John Ashcroft and Spencer Abraham, for their ultimately unsuccessful senate bids.” These days, of course, he’s George’s Chief of Staff. And - oh, yes - he’s a chickenhawk. (Source: Center for Responsive Politics.)


Name: Richard "Dick" Cheney (R-WY)
Born: 1942
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Says he had "other priorities." You bet he had other priorities. Imagine how early in life you must begin scheming to get away with what this guy has. He was too busy thinking about Halliburton to go fight Charlie.


Name: William "Bill" Bennett
Born: 1943
Employer: Empower America
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Bill's occupation used to be "public scold," but since his gambling habit was exposed, he's a little less noisy on that front. Bill's a triple-crown winner as a former bureaucrat, a propagandist, and a barking head. (All barking heads are propagandists, but not all propagandists are barking heads.)


Name: Don Evans
Born: 1946
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: The Secretary of Commerce has known George W. Bush from the old days in the oil industry. Evans raised over million for Bush's presedential selection. Like his pal, George, Don Evans was otherwise occupied when his country needed him to fight the 'Cong.


Name: Frank Gaffney
Born: 1953
Employer: Indeterminate
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Frank here is a very clever boy. Built a thing called the Center for Security Policy, which apparently keeps him in nice suits so he will look good in front of the TV cameras, which can't seem to get enough of him. As far as we can tell, Frank is a freelance salesman for the defense industry who is paid by an elaborately circuitous process. For all his obsession with the military, it's funny he never served.


Name: Asa Hutchinson
Born: 1950
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Our present Under Secretary for Border and Transportation Security has a long career of public service. Prior to his present task of “coordinating the enforcement activities of our borders, waterways, transportation and immigration systems,” he was “Drug Tsar.” We all know how well that went. He was picked for that position while serving as a congressman from Arkansas, where he was originally plucked from obscurity as a rural lawyer by Ronald Reagan. Oddly enough, the trail of Hutchinson’s public service stops short of Vietnam.


Name: I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Born: 1950±
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby is Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff. He’s had a string of no-doubt well-paying government jobs in State and Defense. He’s also practiced law. In fact, he was Marc Rich’s lawyer for years. Yes — the Marc Rich whose pardon from President Clinton was excoriated by so many high and mighty Republicans. Maybe if Scooter had been a better lawyer, his client wouldn’t have needed that pardon. Speaking of legal questions, “Scooter” is alleged by some to have traded energy stocks while helping his buddy Dick Cheney cook up a new energy policy in secret. He’s also suspected of having inserted the bogus “Niger yellowcake” reference into the President’s State of the Union address. As if all that weren’t enough, he’s also a top suspect in the outing of CIA operative Valeria Plame. Clearly “Scooter” is a ballsy kind of guy, so it’s a complete mystery to us why, when he graduated from Phillips Andover in 1968, he didn’t enlist in the Marines or go Airborne instead of going to Yale.


Name: Richard Perle
Born: 1941
Employer: Impossible to say for sure
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Along with Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle is one of the chief architects of the present debacle in Iraq. Nicknamed “The Prince of Darkness,” he was chairman of the Defense Policy Board. He got demoted to board member after an ethics flap. Space does not permit even an index to the reasons why this man should not be trusted.


Name: Donald "The Don" Rumsfeld
Born: 1932
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Korea
Notes: When the shooting started in Korea Rummy here was either 18, or about to turn 18. Not to worry for him, though — he spent the war at Princeton, wearing a ROTC uniform. Once the war was over he flew jets for the Navy for a few years. Defenders of Rumsfeld will say he’s no chickenhawk — he served, and it’s not his fault the war ended before he got his commission. To which others answer, “plenty of farmers and mechanics and kids just out of high school served. Anyone as full of whatever that stuffing in him is, could have tried out for a battlefield commission.”


Name: Paul Wolfowitz
Born: 1943
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Vietnam
Notes: Deputy Secretary for Defense - yet another Bush administration man in the Pentagon who has no idea what it's like to wear a uniform. He got a BA at Cornell in 1965. Maybe if we'd had a guy as bright as he thinks he is in Vietnam, it would have turned out differently.


Name: Rev. Jerry Falwell
Born: 1933
Employer: Thomas Road Baptist Church
Conflict Avoided: Korea, Peacetime Draft
Notes: Jerry could probably have served in Korea - other kids his age did. He certainly could have been drafted into the peacetime Army. He called the members of his '70's cult the Moral Majority "soldiers of morality." For all his loathing of communism, it's a pity he didn't get to kill a few when he was young.


Name: Dr. Marion "Pat" Robertson
Born: 1930
Employer: Christian Broadcasting Network
Conflict Avoided: Korea
Notes: Dr. Pat claimed in his biography to have "seen combat in Korea. He was in Korea in uniform briefly, but his daddy the Congressman got his reassigned to Japan. His picture belongs in the dictionary next to "pious fraud." Just recently declared that the State Department ought to get nuked, but has yet to be indicted for uttering a terrorist statement.


The ChickenHawk DataBase is here ...

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=+NEWS%3B+Chickenhawks

ROTFLMAO at these draft dodgers.

Dop

dops digging deep into his copy and paste file now. I always though liberals looked up to draft dodgers?

Originally posted by Travh20
I always though liberals looked up to draft dodgers?

You really don't have any idea what "liberals" stand for do you? Only what you have been fed by the fanatical right.

I suspect that is the same in reverse, that "liberals" have no real idea what "conservatives" stand for other than what the fanatical left has fed them. Unfortunately thia admisnistration is part of the fanatical right. George calls himself the uniter but I see more and more division as his party moves further and further to the fanatical right.

Too bad bcauce the answer to most of our problems lies somewhere in the middle. Extremes rarely work when dealing with human problems.

LOL, george bush is not radical right. no one who spends taht much money is radical right. he is just another liberal republican, a RINO, Republican In Name Only.

GW is so far right his head is looking out his ass. The mans believes god talks to him and tells him what to do. He hates anyone that isn't wealthy or ivy league educated and wants to trash the constitution. That's pretty fanatical right in my book.

Most conservatives are not haters or elitists like he his. Most conservatives believe in the constitution and want to uphold it. At least that is what I have always felt. Though after watching them fall inline behind him like rats to the pied piper I may have to re-evaluate that belief.

listen to yourself, you sound like a tape recoring form moveon.org. your right, he hates everyone who isnt wealthy or ivy league educated :rolleyes: I think you are actually talking about your boy bliionaire John Forbes Kerry. LOL, and you say people fall in behind someone like rats. your every bit as much a stooge for the left as the people you accuse of following the right blindly. of course you are a lot more pompous then right wingers as you insist you are 100% sure there is no god and calling anyoe who believes an idiot, that you are simply more open minded and conscienceable then everyone else out there. theres a name for people like you, people used by their side as screamers, they are called useful idiots.

LOL, Trav.

That was awesome!

Name: David Byrd
Born: 1989
Employer: Dad (But doesn't get paid)
Conflicts Avoided: Vietnam, Korea, Desert Storm
Notes: Waited until all wars were safely over to be born. His daddy helped him get out of the war by not concieving him until late 1988. Currently sits in the comfort of his home trying to pose intelligent arguments to people and avoiding stupid arguments that do not mean anything. Likes to keep threads going to see how long they last.

Second, hmm, spend all of my life breeding. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Goodnight Everybody!