Here's a statement for you (http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=143) to ponder.

I am not against abortion for certain reasons, but to go around braging about having one sounds kind of stupid. Why would someone want to wear a shirt that brags about killing their child?

Because they think they're making a bold political statement. :rolleyes:

See my Post

Rights of the Mentally ill-To Commit Suicide

It's not bragging about getting an abortion, it's refusing to let people, even prochoice people, make them feel ashamed or guilty for making a responsible desision in the best interest of their health and wellbeing. I'm sure everyone here understands the continuuing stigma against women who have had abortions. Some actresses will speak intimate details about their sex lives before they talk about their abortions (ever wonder if Madonna had abortion? I have.)

"I have had an abortion" is a value neutral statement of fact. Any judgements about the wearer are the projection of the people reading it.

The only thing that can be accurately said about a woman wearing this shirt is that she is publicly provoking people to question how women who have had abortions are judged negatively even by people who agree it is every woman's right to choose. It is a public statement about how we all should examine our internalized sexist judgements about sexually active women who, in their 40 years as fertile women, choose to get abortions after their imperfect method of birth control fails them.

Sure thing -- it's alright to kill Iraqi children but not american children. Don't think the big guy at the pearly gates is gonna buy that one.

Dop

I wouldn't wear it.............

Originally posted by creetwins
I wouldn't wear it.............

Assuming you were comfortable with the reasons you had an abortion, why not?

I'm really not trying to be provacative Creetwins, but I was reading Thalia's post and it struck me as rather true...would you not wear it to avoid the stigma associated with having an abortion?

I wouldn't wear it for the same reason I wouldn't wear a shirt that said

"i had a drug problem"

or

"i was abused"

or

"i have trust issues"

only because it is my personal private business, not something I need to advertise to every jerk out there to judge me.

I wouldn't be ashamed, only I dont' need to dig up that can of worms on a daily basis in a public way. OKay?

would you not wear it to avoid the stigma associated with having an abortion?

exactly. That would make me a walking target for the insensitive frothing jerkwads out there.

I don't need to be labled and have my character defined and be put in a box because of a choice I made.

Plus where am I going to where something like that? Dropping off the kids at swimming lessons? The grocery store? The bank?
I carry my choice with me everywhere I go, I don't need to wear it too........

All those "T" shirts have been printed way to late. They were needed to be given to all that attended the Democratic convention in Boston !! Thats one issue they support so BOLDLY on there platform!! What a way to get votes. Quite honestly the subject doesn't belong in politics. It belongs in the home of the women who has to make that decision.

Instead of wearing a shirt that said "I've had an abortion" why couldn't they wear something more like "Abortion is a personal choice"? I'm with Creetwins on this, why open a can of worms into your personal life, unless of course someone likes to be the center of attention?

Certainly not daily wear.

While pro choice, I can see a reason why not to wear theses T-shirts : it might really hurt the feelings of other people. Not only anti-abortion people, but all those who had one abortion and who considered it a painful experience. It's like wearing a T-shirt "I have cancer" or "My son commited suicide" : while you have no problem with this, it may anyway be something hard to deal with for other people.

It just goes to show that the people that are so passionate about these issues completely lose sight of where the majority of the population stands. I think most people, wherever they stand, see the issue as quite complicated and difficult and would see an abortion as a painful choice. Then you have these yahoos proclaiming how proud they are to have had an abortion. It's just a completely stupid way to try to bring those in the middle around to your way of thinking.

I think it's sometimes a good thing to be provocative, to make people think and debate about some topics. This kind of T-shirt is great in a demonstration, but maybe not in everyday life.

Originally posted by astrapol2
I think it's sometimes a good thing to be provocative, to make people think and debate about some topics. This kind of T-shirt is great in a demonstration, but maybe not in everyday life.

I agree (and with the other stuff you've written here too.)

That would make me a walking target for the insensitive frothing jerkwads out there.


That's rather the point, though, that because of this necessary choice women (and doctors) are maimed, poisoned, shouted at and sometimes murdered and that needs to stop.

I think of it like rape victims coming out and speaking the truth about what was done to them publicly. They know they will be judged, their characters will be defiled unfairly because of what a selfish man (men) did to them, but they feel the greater good of diminishing the stigma of sexual violation for all people is worth putting themselves out there.

It is a brave thing to do and I applaud anyone willing to let themselves be a lightening rod for bigoted, sexist hatred so that maybe the next generation will be a little less vituperative and a little more understanding.

Originally posted by Thalia
That's rather the point, though, that because of this necessary choice women (and doctors) are maimed, poisoned, shouted at and sometimes murdered and that needs to stop.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Thalia
I think of it like rape victims coming out and speaking the truth about what was done to them publicly. They know they will be judged, their characters will be defiled unfairly because of what a selfish man (men) did to them, but they feel the greater good of diminishing the stigma of sexual violation for all people is worth putting themselves out there.

Well not quite, because rape is something that's done to you, while abortion is a choice you make for yourself. It would be wrong of me to form a negative opinion about someone that was raped, because they had no say in the matter. Abortion is a choice, or so I'm told.

Originally posted by Thalia
It is a brave thing to do and I applaud anyone willing to let themselves be a lightening rod for bigoted, sexist hatred so that maybe the next generation will be a little less vituperative and a little more understanding.

I guess people against abortion should be more understanding and tolerant of other views, like you are? :rolleyes: People against abortion have a viewpoint that is just as valid as yours, and it has nothing to do with bigotry or sexism (in most cases, at least).

Whatever the intention of the person wearing the shirt may be, it's going to come off to most people as being proud of having an abortion. I'm not saying it's something to be embarassed about, but the pride comes off as awfully cold and unfeeling to the majority of the population that might have a little feeling left in their bodies.

Beautifully summed up, Lionel...

:)

I am pro choice. But I think wearing a shirt like that is tacky. Abortion is a private decision between a dr and a woman and when appropriate the father. It is no body else's business and to tell the world IMO demeans the seriousness of the decision.

Agreed...

Echo2, I don't think publicizing the truth that women have abortions is demeaning because it comes in shirt form, but I understand the current climate and how you could see it as such.

Well not quite, because rape is something that's done to you, while abortion is a choice you make for yourself. It would be wrong of me to form a negative opinion about someone that was raped

I'm talking about the sexually-tinged social stigma other people attach to both, not comparing them to each other. The implication that's it's okay to form negative opinions about the 50% of all American women who will have an abortion in their lifetime cause they chose it proves how far we have to go before women's ability to decide for themselves what is sacred and what is not is truly respected.

I'm not saying it's something to be embarassed about, but the pride comes off as awfully cold and unfeeling to the majority of the population that might have a little feeling left in their bodies.

Like I said before, "I have had an abortion" is objectively a value neutral statement and any "pride" or other values you project onto it are your own. And that's the point.

You know the funny thing, is that if a person were to wear one of these t shirts in public, it would cause some to be controversial. But lets say for the moment that I were to wear a t shirt that says "abortion is murder" . I would probably be arrested on the spot for public obsenity.

The fact that some of these people have made their choice and they will answer for that choice. Their problem is not that they had an abortion for the sake of choice, but their problem is that they will have to live with that choice for the rest of their lives. Some choice huh?

The fact is that these people are making a choice that will affect two lives, and those who have made it will have to live with it. Wearing a shirt like this will not promote any thought. It is arbirarily forcing your opinion on someone else.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. If you dont want children then dont have sex. Abstinence is the best policy.

"I have said it before, and I will say it again. If you dont want children then dont have sex. Abstinence is the best policy."

I was going to adress this rediculous statement but decided that anyone that would write it would not be able to comprehend the complexities of the explanation.

OOOH, You're soooo smart...dazzle me with your brilliance. :rolleyes: