I don't remember any debate on this forum about violence and video games. Supposing most of us enjoy computer games (I do), what about this article to start the issue ?



Teen killer influenced by violent video game

LONDON (AFP) - The parents of a 14-year-old boy who was bludgeoned and stabbed to death by a 17-year-old called for a ban on a violent video game which they said had inspired the killer.

Patrick Pakeerah, the father of victim Stefan Pakeerah, told reporters that actions depicted in the game "Manhunt" were similar to those allegedly carried out by the killer Warren Leblanc on his son in a city park last February.

"The way Warren committed the murder, this is how the game is set out, killing people using weapons like hammers and knives. There is some connection between the game and what he has done," he said.

The makers of the game, Rockstar Games, describe it in their advertising as "sado-masochistic."

The game, which Leblanc was said to have been obsessed with, demands that players find the most gruesome way of carrying out murders, using such weapons as knives and hammers.

Those were the weapons that Leblanc confessed to using on Stefan, whom he lured to a park in Leicester on February 25. He battered the youth around the head with his hammer and then stabbed him repeatedly, notably in the neck and the stomach.

Jack Thompson, a US lawyer familiar with such cases, told the Press Association: "We have had dozens of killings in the US by children who had played these types of games. This is not an isolated incident. These types of games are basically murder simulators".

(Guardian)

This may sound simplistic, and I don’t really want to go into depth about all of this. But the vast majority of people do not commit these acts because of video games. Yes, it can sometimes trigger violent acts, but most of the time the people who do so are already mentally inept. Also, with a free society comes the negatives. We have the right to see and play these video games, and because of this right, comes the reasonability of not abusing it. But that’s only in a perfect world, and people do abuse the privileges we are given and go a little wacko. Which is the negative. We will always have the mentally unstable people in the world, and sadly, it’s the price you pay for a free society.

I also believe that video games are an easy scapegoeat used by people who do not practice them. In history, there was exactly the same reaction against movies, TV, comic strips and even novels !

they tried the same thing with ozzy osbourne in the 80's. some people just dont want to accept the fact that someone in their family may not have been all there, if you know what I mean

If we can blame T.V., radio, video games, books, etc... then why can't we blame the bible? That has just as much if not more violence in it. I also want to say, I am not bashing the Bible.

believe me, they would if they could. In canada its already considered a hate crime to quote certan verses from the bible, ones that have to do with homosexuals. One day it will be the same in this country. You will be arrested for a hate crime if you cite anti gay verses from the bible. just wait and see.

It's funny how you manage to turn a thread where we could potentially agree (for once) into a controversial issue !
My point was not the Bible nor gay people.
There are other arguments about both topics.
But if you want to discuss video games you're welcome !

Yes I am sorry astropol. I do not think that video games are the cause of any violence. I think if anything they are a scapegoat to take the responsibliity off of unobservant parents who fail to catch thier childrens aggression and anger early enough to intervene. Parents who blame music or games for their childrens murderous behaviour are in denial. It is very sad to think about, and I dont blame them for wanting to believe it was not their fault, but a lot of times it is, the other times it is simply the kid himself who may just be hard wired for violence. I do not believe games or music is going to make someone act violently towards someone else, except for in a mosh pit

OK !
Now we should find someone who's against video games. I guess it won't be easy here…

Astrapol2;

Sorry, I was just trying to point out that someone is allways blaming something else for personal actions. I do not believe Video games cause violent crimes, but on the other hand some kids do tend to get caught up in the fantasy of the games. A while back I seem to remember a com. about driving and video games. The com. said that kids go to the arcade, then when they get their lic. they feel invincible. When I was younger I remember going to stunt shows, demo derby, etc... When we'ld get home we would get our bikes out and jump off bridges, over cars, etc.... The show didn't cause us to do the stunts but it sure did get us thinking. I quess if a kid were allready violent the game could add that extra punch that is missing. The game doesn't cause the violence, but it could add a little extra help??????

I think that video games are just like movies or anything else in life that is not natural. It should be up to the parents to make sure their kids aren't playing, watching or doing things that aren't appropriate for their ages.
As for the kids that pay an ultimate price for violence in games, unfortunately there are alot of people out there that aren't "all there" and I think it would be a sad thing if they just stopped making certain games because of those people. It kinda makes me think of "Demolition Man" where they had taken just about everything exciting out of life. How boring. Granted, I don't much care for seeing blood guts and gore for entertainment, but that's my personal opinion. Nobody holds a gun to my head and makes me watch things I don't want to. To take things out of society that some of us don't like is robbing us of the freedom we love so much in this country. I am totally against that.

Parents need to be aware of the time spent and the type of use their children are doing on PC,s. Not every parent theses days really care though. They say they are too busy. And actually shove the kid on the computer to keep them busy. Well, times have changed, and yes like all other sources such as T.V., radio, video games, books, could all be potentally dangerous for young kids to get them-selves into trouble from the source.

I agree with mad dog when he said that video games might "help" in the commision of a violent crime.

I don't think that a violent game or movie or whatever, will cause someone to commit an act of violence, but in some circumstances might trigger a violent response in a person who would otherwise not act violently.

I seem to remember someone posting a link to an article on this subject which I thought explained it quite well.

The article described a boy who was a habitual player of a "point-and-shoot" arcade game that involved holding a fake pistol and shooting as many people as you could in a short time. Later the boy and a companion decided to rob a convenience store, and this boy was pointing a gun at the clerk. When they asked the clerk for the money and the clerk moved to comply, the boy shot him in the head. When he was arrested and asked why he shot the clerk, he said he didn't know.

The author of the article described this as a "conditioned response", in that the repetition of this behavior in the video game, prompted the same reaction when the boy found himself in the convenience store. Whether or not this type of behavior can be conditioned is, I think, beyond question since the military uses similar techniques in it's training programs.

Certainly the video game cannot be blamed for this boy's decision to commit robbery, but I do think that repeated exposure to violence can de-sensitize people to the real consequences of that violence, and video games that have elements that may lead to "conditioned responses" also may have their dangers.

I also think I would not want my child playing a video game that had as it's object the killing of people with hammers.

I know aftr playing a lot of Project Gotham Racing 2 on XBOX Live I have an overwhelming desire to ram people off the road on my way to work.

Not the video games fault.

Some people try to ban some physical object and are in denial of the true problems of our society. Examples: guns, porno.
There will always be mal-adjusted persons and causations run from organic to handed down attitudes.

I can see how much of the multi-media we are exposed too can desensitize us to violence. I can see on television prime time, a severed foot, another dead prostitute, a grizly auto accident, gunshot sucide live, gang killing and any other gory story hollywood or the news can dream up. "If it bleeds it leads"

I would urge anyone to check out "On Killing, The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society", by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. Here is a person who is trying to identify the root for the lust of violence we as a country have. Also check out "War is a force that gives us meaning" by Chris Hedges. A war correspondent, who found himself struggling with his addiction to war. I don't assume they have all the answers, but they are certainly looking at some questions that are ignored in our own society.

Thousands of people die each year in this country because of gun violence, (it's not the gun it's the people right?) so where do they get this impulse? (I'M NOT ADVOCATING GUN CONTROL)

It isn't the violence that causes them to do it, it's the devaluing of human life, which is a biproduct of that violence. It's the fear we develop for those around us. These are purvasive circumstances that allow violence to become more acceptable around us.

You can't just blame Ozzy or the bible, these things alone are never the cause of the problem, (they don't help) but take it with the glorification of violence in our movies and music. The imagry children are exposed to today is more real then anything we have encountered in our own youth (for the elders among us). There is never any reprucussions for the violence, we never see the bodies being carried away, or the families grieving, only the bodies blown apart.

None of us live in a box, we are all effected by the culture around us. IT is very difficult to shut it all off. Children, in early stages of development are very influenced by their surroundings. We should be careful to what they are exposed too, and that they understand the true impact of their actions.

And not for nothing my parents worked full time, and late, so it was never very easy for them to monitor what I did at home.(although when I think back they were pretty succussful despite the deluge of GI Joe toys). Today's technology is something alltogether different. Within a few clicks you can see terrible imagery that can have profound impacts on how we view people around us.

Many of have made very good points on parents responsibility and the global level of violence of our societies. I still don't believe video games makes people violents, but I think they may channel one's violence. An already violent person playing violent videogames may try to mimic them, which does not mean he would not have acted violently otherwise.

My main concern with videogames is much more mundane : it's their addictive aspect and the time kids and teenagers spend in front of screens rather than playing outside with real people. That in my opinion is a much greater threat, maybe not as obvious, but that may have health and social consequences.
Another problem with videogames compared to real toys and games is the way they restrict imagination. In a video game, you have the feeling you do whatever you want but you play in a world designed by another person. Kids playing with GI joe or playmobil play in their own world.
As a father, I will not forbid video games to my daughters but would sure try to make sure they also play with real toys and go outside !

This said, I'm going back to my Neverwinter Night game…