Of all the places Clinton said John kerry said to send him he forgot one very important one. When John Kerry recieved his third purple heart, he said "Send me home!" never mind he missed all of 1 day of duty from all 3 purple hearts, which is unheard of, send me home so I can throw my medals, correction, "ribbons" over the fence and testify before the world that the men still there are monsters, and I can organize my staged home movies for future use. What a joker. How do you get 3 purple hearts and not spend one night in the hospital or have one scar to show for it?

Originally posted by Travh20
When John Kerry recieved his third purple heart, he said "Send me home!"

After he said, “Send me to Vietnam, where I was commander, and saved men’s lives, and fought for our country” And yes, after you receive 3 Purple Hearts you were allowed to go home, it was I believe the rule at the time.

Originally posted by Travh20
never mind he missed all of 1 day of duty from all 3 purple hearts

Your point being? The laws regarding purple hearts never said that you had to have a massive wound…so actually John Kerry met the requirements for getting them. If you want to attack anyone, attack the person who made this policy.

Originally posted by Travh20
which is unheard of, send me home so I can throw my medals, correction, "ribbons" over the fence and testify before the world that the men still there are monsters

No, he said send me home, because we need to end this war that was not accomplishing anything, and that was forcing our men to commit atrocities that were wrong.

And, no, he said many men were committing these acts, he never said all of them did.

Originally posted by Travh20
What a joker. How do you get 3 purple hearts and not spend one night in the hospital or have one scar to show for it?

To receive a purple heart, you have to injured in a way you need medical treatment. And as we know, not every injury has to keep you in bed overnight.

overdose, name me a wound you recieve from enemy fire that wont leave you in a hospital or with a scar? This has been an issue of mine for a long time, long before I even knew John Kerry. He is just a high profile case of it. fakers, getting a scratch and going on sick call for it. we had a name for peole like that, they were called broke dicks. unless you were hit and went down you better get your ass up and drive on. this getting a scratch and leaving to go to the hospital if for pussys. Sorry, but it is a soe spot with me, and seeing a pussy like that claiming to be some great warrior is a slap in the face to any man who had the dishonor of actually having to earn their purple heart. He is just lucky he was in a position to put himself in for one. I tell you a little story. In africa we were taking fire in a city. I didnt get shot, but a bullet hit close enough to send a good size chunk of the wall into my neck. I got a good cut, and needed medic attention then and there. wheres my purple heart john kerry????

Trav, in Vietnam the policies were far different then they are now. While when you were in Vietnam you were allowed to get purple hearts, the exact way John Kerry did. If you want to attack anything, attack our Government’s policies that let people like John Kerry get these hearts because of minor injuries. He didn’t make the rules, Trav, so stop attacking him for something he didn’t control or create.

no one forced him to go to the infimary for a scratch on his arm, he went on his own and put himself in for the awards.

Originally posted by Travh20
no one forced him to go to the infimary for a scratch on his arm, he went on his own and put himself in for the awards.

Your point is? Trav, he went to Vietnam and served. You can criticize him all you want on his purple hearts, but at least he got them. That’s something you cannot say for George Bush. Our Government let anyone get a purple heart if you had to get medical attention. John Kerry needed medical attention on each one, so no matter how you spin it, he earned his purples hearts the way our Government let men earn purple hearts.

Kerry's service in Viet Nam is meaningless in today's politics. Goody for him ... he went to Nam. So did millions of other guys. American military were assigned to Nam continuously from about 1961 through 1975, and during the '66-67 thru '71-'72 time frame, we had 500,000 troops assigned in country. The tour length to Nam was a year. That's a lot of folks. At least he didn't shirk his duty as the last democratic prez did.

Originally posted by es347fan
Kerry's service in Viet Nam is meaningless in today's politics.

Actually it shows that he has true leadership, and can make quick decisions under pressure that are effective, and that he is fit to be our Commander in Chief. I guess we have differing opinions, but everyone (but one) who served under him says he is a true leader, and is more then qualified to lead our country. Honestly, it does help him in terms of telling Americans we can trust him when he is our President. He will not send our troops into harms way, because he knows what’s it like to be in war, unlike George Bush. He knows how to make effective decisions under pressure, unlike George Bush. Yes, many other people served, but in the comparison to George Bush and John Kerry, Kerry is far exceeding George in terms of being able to be lead our country effectively and make rash, and just decisions under pressure.

Kerry is far exceeding George in terms of being able to be lead our country effectively and make rash, and just decisions under pressure.

What makes you the arbiter of what rash and just decisions are while under pressure? Is it your political expertise, or your years of experience in the field?

He will not send our troops into harms way

No, he'll be too busy putting our nation and industry there.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
What makes you the arbiter of what rash and just decisions are while under pressure? Is it your political expertise, or your years of experience in the field?

I never said I was an expert on the issue, nor did I say you have to take my word for it. But if you have been watching MSNBC, CNN, Fox News and other news networks you will find that they have interviewed the people who served under John Kerry in Vietnam. Everyone, but one, says he showed leadership, and the ability to make quick decisions that were life saving. In my honest opinion, I think I’ll trust their judgment over yours, and or anyone else for that matter.

I never said I was an expert on the issue, nor did I say you have to take my word for it. But if you have been watching MSNBC, CNN, Fox News and other news networks you will find that they have interviewed the people who served under John Kerry in Vietnam. Everyone, but one, says he showed leadership, and the ability to make quick decisions that were life saving. In my honest opinion, I think I’ll trust their judgment over yours, and or anyone else for that matter.

Well...that certainly sounds like a good enough reason for everyone to vote for him! :@@:

Lets all just disregard what he did after Vietnam, because some people back in the late 60's supported him so fervently for his "decisive" and "commanding" presence... :rolleyes:

If this is a good enough reason for you to vote for him, then I sincerely hope you're not 18.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Well...that certainly sounds like a good enough reason for everyone to vote for him!
Wrong, again. I never said this was the only reason to vote for him. All I’m saying is that it helps him, and it shows his leadership skills.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Lets all just disregard what he did after Vietnam, because some people back late 60's supported him so fervently for his "decisive" and "commanding" presence...
It’s your choice. You can either believe the people who served under John Kerry, who all (but one) say he showed leadership, and intelligence. Or you can believe the Veterans Against Kerry, who for the most part didn’t serve under John Kerry and have no validation to what they are saying.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
If this is a good enough reason for you to vote for him, then I sincerely hope you're not 18.
Never said it was the only reason, but it does help out his run for the Presidency. I never said this was the only reason. I never said this should be the only reason. It just makes me feel more comfortable knowing he is our President since he served in a war and showed great leadership.

Your hero, Kerry, demonstrated leadership qualities when he was a kid, fresh from military training. What has he done since? He's been a civilian again for nearly 40 years.

here are my problems regarding the purple hearts and vietnam with john kerry:

in no way am i going to question his honarability in vietnam. he VOLUNTEERED

however what bugs me is that he asked to be given purple hearts...they werent suggested by his commander which is the way that they normally do it (travh probably knows)

also....being in vietnam does show some leadership, but he has been in the senate for 20 YEARS! before this democratic race for president you never really heard much about kerry. he wasnt a big leader of the party after 20 YEARS! he had several years to prove his leadership in vietnam, but he has had 20 in the senate and he still is nothing. he is just another politician who got nominated because he was a vietnam vet

Kerry had a boat on the river, I was a crewchief & gunner on a UH-1C Huey gunship in the Central Highlands. Given that Kerry was in a rather unique command position it is understandable that he would have to request his own Purple Heart to the next command level. The chain of paperwork has to start somewhere. Regardless of branch of service, the pile of paperwork needed to request award of any medal is substancial. Especially during the pre-computer days when everything had to be done in 5 copies & carbon paper was kept in the safe. There were no copy machines, either -- especially in Nam.

It irritates the hell out of me that Kerry pushes his vet status the way he does. He hasn't been a political friend of the military that I know of ... & I was in uniform from '68 - '88.

Originally posted by es347fan
Kerry had a boat on the river, I was a crewchief & gunner on a UH-1C Huey gunship in the Central Highlands. Given that Kerry was in a rather unique command position it is understandable that he would have to request his own Purple Heart to the next command level. The chain of paperwork has to start somewhere. Regardless of branch of service, the pile of paperwork needed to request award of any medal is substancial. Especially during the pre-computer days when everything had to be done in 5 copies & carbon paper was kept in the safe. There were no copy machines, either -- especially in Nam.

It irritates the hell out of me that Kerry pushes his vet status the way he does. He hasn't been a political friend of the military that I know of ... & I was in uniform from '68 - '88.

i would think saying that you yourself deserve a purple heart is being full of yourself and i think most vets are humble people

Originally posted by es347fan
It irritates the hell out of me that Kerry pushes his vet status the way he does. He hasn't been a political friend of the military that I know of ...

I'm not trying to be rude in no way. But I will explain to you what he did for the military after Vietnam. He was the leader of the challenge to find all missing POW's in Vietnam that we had no record of. He was the head of that commission in the Senate, and he did all he could to help us find every last POW.

he did all he could? Well there are still POW's in vietnam, so it looks like yet another failure for John F Kerry. you would think after getting so cozy with the commie vietnamese government they would help him out.

Anyway, I too am rked at how John Kerry pushs his service so hard. I swear every sentance n his speech had some reference to vietnam. I could see Eisenhower refrencing WW2 a lot, since he was supreme allied commander, but a gut thre for 4 months commanding 5 men refrencing his 4 months of service 20 times in an hour is a bit much. If he would have broken out of a hospital bed to rejoin his boat crew and volunteer for multiple tours that would be one thing, but to get 3 purple hearts in 4 months and spend no time whatsoever in a hospital, request to leave the country as soon as humanly possible then come back and join the very movement denouncing exactly waht he just did is freaking insane. I have heard all the exlanations for it and they all stink. he got out as soon as he could, period. he acts as if he fought on full of holes. he is exploiting it as he planned to do all along I guess the words "selfless service" are not in his vocabulary. The humble warriro who does his duty and goes back home he is not. Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your service to your country can do for you.

In short, he played up his service while he was in the military, yet he hated it. He had moral qualms over what happened while he was in Nam, and since, has voted down almost every defensive bill. He now wants to command our military, and to validate this recognition; he's playing up his former reputation as a "warrior" while he served, of which, “warrior” was a self appointed title. How sad…

What a complete, back talking, putz.

Originally posted by Travh20
he did all he could?
Yes, Trav he did.

Originally posted by Travh20
Well there are still POW's in vietnam, so it looks like yet another failure for John F Kerry.
He started the offensive, and it’s still going on today because of him. He found many POW’s in the time he could lead the panel on the Vietnam searches.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
In short, he played up his service while he was in the military, yet he hated it. He had moral qualms over what happened while he was in Nam, and since, has voted down almost every defensive bill. He now wants to command our military, and to validate this recognition; he's playing up his former reputation as a "warrior" while he served, of which, “warrior” was a self appointed title. How sad…


No, he is telling American’s that he has true leadership skills. It’s proven, because everyone who served under him (but one) said he can make quick, life saving decisions under pressure. Which in my opinion, makes him very qualified for Commander in Chief. He never said he was a “warrior”, he said he was a true leader and has the experience in difficult situations to make good decisions quickly. I don’t find it sad at all, I find it admirable.

lets see. Kerry was a lieutenant who commanded a 5 man boat for 4 months in vietnam 30 years ago. Bush has been commander in chief of the armed forces for 4 years and has overseen the destruction out the taliban and Saddam hussein's dictatorship over Iraq. ya, your right, I think kerry clearly has much more experience in leadership :rolleyes: I will tell you waht overdose, next time I have to chose a swift boat commander between Kerry and Bush, I am going with kerry

Originally posted by Travh20
lets see. Kerry was a lieutenant who commanded a 5 man boat for 4 months in vietnam 30 years ago. Bush has been commander in chief of the armed forces for 4 years and has overseen the destruction out the taliban and Saddam hussein's dictatorship over Iraq. ya, your right, I think kerry clearly has much more experience in leadership :rolleyes:

If you think what George Bush has done, has shown leadership, and a clear plan to win the war against terrorism then yes, it will appear Bush has experience to lead. But I disagree, and we’ve already debated that. Thanks for your time Trav.

Oh and in my previous post I never mentioned him to Bush. I was not trying to. I was saying that he has shown leadership, and that’s it.

instead of a guy who served 30 years ago, maybe we should find a navy lieutenant serving now and nominate him.

Originally posted by Travh20
instead of a guy who served 30 years ago, maybe we should find a navy lieutenant serving now and nominate him.

If you want to discredit his service, then maybe we should discredit yours Trav. You seem to bring it up ever so often in our debates.

damn right I bring it up. anyone who plays it up that much, and uses it as the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING HE HAS TO OFFER AMERICA is going to get scrutinized. I dont like how he never stops fucking talking about it, while at the same time not a peep abouthsi 20 years in the US Senate! what is he hiding? what does he not want us to know? I want so fucking answers. I am sick of all this manchiurian candidate obsession with a brief tour of duty cut short by some fake wounds. go ahead and discredit my service, i dont care, I am not running for the highest office in the land based on it. anyone who avoids the largest chunck of his life devoted to public srvice like the plague is hiding something. He has the audacity to brag about less then half a tour in vietnam after coming home, crucifying his "brothers in arms" and admiting he commited war crimes, associatign with communists, disrespecting decorations by throwing someone elses over the fence. I just can not believe this guy is held up as a fucking hero. ya, he served, thats great, I respect that, but this massive campaign to create some sort of Audi Murphy type hero is crazy. There were men who were wounded who broke out of hospitals to rejoin their units and fight on, this puke got 3 purple hearts without a scratch and shipped off. It is not right to call him a hero. he may not be a coward, but he is no hero. sorry, it is just such a load of crap how obvious it is that his senate record is being hidden by a few months getting shot at.

Originally posted by Travh20
damn right I bring it up.
But you say John Kerry shouldn’t bring it up, or not as “often” as he does. Yet, you feel inclined to bring it up regularly? Double standard?

Originally posted by Travh20
anyone who plays it up that much, and uses it as the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING HE HAS TO OFFER AMERICA is going to get scrutinized.
He doesn’t say this is the only thing he has to offer our country. He uses it to show he has leadership qualities, and if that offends you, I’m greatly sorry.

Originally posted by Travh20
I dont like how he never stops fucking talking about it, while at the same time not a peep abouthsi 20 years in the US Senate! what is he hiding?
Hmmm, I never recalled George Bush talking about his time as Governor, or doing anything good for America when he was running.

Originally posted by Travh20
crucifying his "brothers in arms" and admiting he commited war crimes
Because our Government forced our men to do so, yes. Which is why when he came home he protested the policies our Government had in Vietnam.

Originally posted by Travh20
associatign with communists
Actually the Peace Protesters in Vietnam broke off into two groups, and John Kerry broke off into the group that was not affiliated with communism. Do more research next time, Trav.

Originally posted by Travh20
disrespecting decorations by throwing someone elses over the fence.
The Veterans for Peace were all throwing their medals over the fence. He threw his own, and any others he may have thrown were by Veterans who were all throwing other people medals, who wanted their medals thrown.

Originally posted by Travh20
There were men who were wounded who broke out of hospitals to rejoin their units and fight on, this puke got 3 purple hearts without a scratch and shipped off.
Our Government let men get Purple Hearts because of anything that had to seek medical attention. So blame the Government for letting John Kerry get these purple hearts, because they are the ones who gave them to him. And blame the Government for allowing anyone to leave after getting 3 hearts, that they gave him. It’s not his fault, actually Trav.

Originally posted by Travh20
It is not right to call him a hero.
The service crew who served under him said he saved their lives, because he made quick decisions under intense pressure. He was awarded a Bronze and a Silver star for saving a man out of the water during enemy fire. Yes, Trav, he is a hero and our Government recognized it by the medals he was awarded.

Originally posted by Overdose
But you say John Kerry shouldn’t bring it up, or not as “often” as he does. Yet, you feel inclined to bring it up regularly? Double standard?

:comphit: are you really that dense? knowing you are I will clarify: would I have to bring it up if kerry and the democrats didnt bring it up everyday?




Originally posted by Overdose
He doesn’t say this is the only thing he has to offer our country. He uses it to show he has leadership qualities, and if that offends you, I’m greatly sorry.

what else ahs he said he has to offer. his 20 year senate record seems off limits, so what else is there? why do you keep avoiding that fact?


Originally posted by Overdose
Hmmm, I never recalled George Bush talking about his time as Governor, or doing anything good for America when he was running.

ya, he didnt bring it up after every statement, thats why. he did say what acomplished during his time and moved on. that is normal. bringing up vietnam literally every 2 minutes during an acceptance speech is not normal.


Originally posted by Overdose
Because our Government forced our men to do so, yes. Which is why when he came home he protested the policies our Government had in Vietnam.


Actually the Peace Protesters in Vietnam broke off into two groups, and John Kerry broke off into the group that was not affiliated with communism. Do more research next time, Trav.


The Veterans for Peace were all throwing their medals over the fence. He threw his own, and any others he may have thrown were by Veterans who were all throwing other people medals, who wanted their medals thrown.


Our Government let men get Purple Hearts because of anything that had to seek medical attention. So blame the Government for letting John Kerry get these purple hearts, because they are the ones who gave them to him. And blame the Government for allowing anyone to leave after getting 3 hearts, that they gave him. It’s not his fault, actually Trav.


The service crew who served under him said he saved their lives, because he made quick decisions under intense pressure. He was awarded a Bronze and a Silver star for saving a man out of the water during enemy fire. Yes, Trav, he is a hero and our Government recognized it by the medals he was awarded.

if you admit his purple hearts wre questionalbe but passed the flimsy criteria what makes you think anything else he got is any more authentic? and he did not throw his medal s over the fence, he threw his ribbons remember? he kept his medal sto ahng on his senate office wall.

Originally posted by Travh20
what else ahs he said he has to offer. his 20 year senate record seems off limits, so what else is there? why do you keep avoiding that fact?
This is discussing his Vietnam service, not his record in the Senate, Trav. And you know what? I’m not knowledgeable to his years in the Senate, and neither are you. We are both not educated enough to say his senator years were good or bad. I’ll get back to you when I do more research.

Originally posted by Travh20
ya, he didnt bring it up after every statement, thats why.
Because George Bush had nothing to offer.

Originally posted by Travh20
bringing up vietnam literally every 2 minutes during an acceptance speech is not normal.
Your interpretation is different from mine. With that I’ll agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Travh20
if you admit his purple hearts wre questionalbe but passed the flimsy criteria what makes you think anything else he got is any more authentic?
No, they were not questionable…they met the criteria are Government had on them. No questions need to be asked. If they were questionable, why did the Government give them to him?

Originally posted by Travh20
and he did not throw his medal s over the fence, he threw his ribbons remember? he kept his medal sto ahng on his senate office wall.
You’re point being?

"No, they were not questionable…they met the criteria are Government had on them. No questions need to be asked. If they were questionable, why did the Government give them to him?"

overdose, why do you feel it is OK to question bushs service? he got his honorable discharge, he met the government criteria for an honorable discharge, so why the questions? I swear you are such an amature.

Do you think that Kerrys vietnam service is more important then his voting record over 20 years in the United States Senate? do you think he could even be running for president today if he was never in the senate? plain old vietnam swift boat captains dont get run for president, something had to put him in position to do it. I would be willing to bet a pretty penny it was his senate service, so why are we not talking about that?

Originally posted by Travh20
"overdose, why do you feel it is OK to question bushs service? he got his honorable discharge, he met the government criteria for an honorable discharge, so why the questions? I swear you are such an amature.
I really don’t care that Bush was AWOL. It doesn’t make me like or less like him. The only thing that Kerry’s service does, is make me like him more.

Originally posted by Travh20
"Do you think that Kerrys vietnam service is more important then his voting record over 20 years in the United States Senate?
In terms of leadership qualities, yes. In other areas, no. You and I both don’t know about his voting record so I refuse to make judgment on it.

Originally posted by Travh20
"do you think he could even be running for president today if he was never in the senate?
No, I don’t.

Originally posted by Travh20
plain old vietnam swift boat captains dont get run for president
You know, you almost force me to bring up George Bush. What were his accomplishments as the Texas Governor? The only thing he did before that was serve in the National Guard and own oil businesses. But yet, in 2000 you thought George Bush was more then qualified.