U.S. Death Toll in Iraq Hits 900
By Robert Burns, AP Military Writer

WASHINGTON - American soldiers in Iraq have been dying at a rate of two a day since Iraqis regained political control on June 28 — a drop from the deadliest months of violence before the handover but still about the same rate overall as in the 16 months since the U.S. invasion.

The U.S. military death toll now has reached 900, and the number of American soldiers injured is approaching 6,000.

It is not possible to predict when the casualty count will begin to drop, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Wednesday. American troops will be less at risk when Iraq's own security forces become better trained and equipped to fight the insurgency, he said.

Fewer U.S. soldiers have been killed by roadside bombs and mortar attacks since the handover, according to Pentagon figures. At the same time, at least 10 soldiers and Marines have been killed in vehicle accidents since then, compared with none reported earlier in June.

As of Wednesday, 47 American troop deaths — hostile and non-hostile — had been announced in the three weeks since an interim Iraqi government took power. That was a marked increase from the 26 deaths reported in the three weeks before the handover but less than in May and April.

The death rate since the power transfer has been almost exactly two a day, the same as recorded between January and July. The rate over the entire period since the invasion in March 2003 has been about 1.9 a day.

The worst months so far have been April 2004 with 135 deaths, November 2003 with 82 and May 2004 with 80.

In addition to the 900 reported killed so far, according to The Associated Press count, another soldier, Spc. Keith M. "Matt" Maupin, of Batavia, Ohio, is listed as missing and two Defense Department civilians also have been killed.

There are about 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.

Rumsfeld and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, both asserted Wednesday that the insurgency is increasingly focusing its attacks on Iraqis who are cooperating with the American forces.

There are no independent figures on recent Iraqi deaths, but Myers said that since the transition 100 Iraqi security officers and civilians have been killed and 250 have been injured.

A large portion of the American deaths since June 28 have happened in Anbar Province, an expanse of western Iraq that includes the restive cities of Ramadi and Fallujah and a portion of the Syrian border area. At least 17 Marines and four soldiers have died in that province since June 28.

That also is the area of Iraq where Marine Corps Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassoun, 24, of Salt Lake City, disappeared June 20. He turned up three weeks later in Lebanon, saying he had been abducted.

Vehicle accidents remain a source of worry for the Army and Marines. Two 2nd Infantry Division soldiers from Fort Lewis, Wash., were killed July 14 when their vehicle rolled over as the driver tried to avoid a crash, and two soldiers of the 94th Field Artillery Brigade were killed in a head-on collision July 11.

On July 10, four Marines from Camp Pendleton, Calif., were killed in an accident in Anbar Province.

As for the war wounded, the Pentagon this week put the figure at 5,804, an increase of more than 400 since its previous total was published June 29. Two soldiers died this month at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C., of wounds sustained earlier.

Counts of the number of U.S. service members killed in Iraq vary, with some already exceeding the 900 figure. The Pentagon count can lag slightly. The AP count is based on names of the dead released by the Pentagon and reports from the military in the region.

In Iraq, Capt. Thomas H. Johnson Jr., says he doesn't dwell on the possibility he might be killed. But he has been hit hard by comrades' deaths, particularly that of a friend, 1st Lt. Christopher Kenny, who died in May with three other soldiers when their Humvee rolled into a canal.

"I gave him CPR and mouth to mouth, felt a pulse and was with him on the way to hospital, where he died," said Johnson. "And all I was thinking about was how I was going to tell his wife. It is the families who suffer most."

On the Net:
Pentagon casualty report at http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2004/d20040720cas.pdf

And how many iraqi civilians ?

Originally posted by astrapol2
And how many iraqi civilians ? do you really care ?.....i mean, really care ? everybody seems to be buying into bush's reason of "SAVING THE IRAQI PEOPLE ".....when that was the last concern of his or most americans. we are hypocrites.....go along with bush saying, oh those poor people , we must do something to save them from that evil hussien.......then we wont let them sit by you on a plane, train or restaurant..............so, who cares how many iraqis are dead.............................

by the way................im being sarcastic !

Originally posted by astrapol2
And how many iraqi civilians ?

Astrapol, I agree with you on most issues. But that was kind of disrespectful. Even though I don't support this war, I'm still very sad that now even more soldiers are dying.

Yes, we killed too many civilians; don't think I'm ignorant of that. But at least don't make it seem as if our life lost isn't worth respecting

Vote for Bush and win a trip to Iraq for you or one of your loved ones.

Dop

Originally posted by Overdose
Astrapol, I agree with you on most issues. But that was kind of disrespectful. Even though I don't support this war, I'm still very sad that now even more soldiers are dying.

Yes, we killed too many civilians; don't think I'm ignorant of that. But at least don't make it seem as if our life lost isn't worth respecting Astro is just being true to himself. He has no respect for lost American life, just as most his fellow countrymen do not.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Astro is just being true to himself. He has no respect for lost American life, just as most his fellow countrymen do not.

That's a bit harsh don't you think HaVok? :rolleyes:

The death of an American is no more important then the death of anyone else.

Originally posted by Blibblob
The death of an American is no more important then the death of anyone else.

I’m not sure if you are directing this towards me, but I will say something. Although American lives are not anymore important, we deserve the same respect. Everyone knows I’m a huge left-winger, who is passionately against this war. And I am not ignorant to the fact that many innocent civilians have died in Iraq.

Which is why when this question was framed, And how many Iraqi civilians? I took it as if, he was saying that, more Iraqis have died at our hand, so the lives we have lost are not as important.

Whether he meant that, or not, it came off that way…which is why I took to a degree of an insult.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
That's a bit harsh don't you think HaVok? :rolleyes: I honestly feel that way Vile. I meant exactly what i posted without any sarcasm intended.

Originally posted by Overdose
Astrapol, I agree with you on most issues. But that was kind of disrespectful. Even though I don't support this war, I'm still very sad that now even more soldiers are dying.

Yes, we killed too many civilians; don't think I'm ignorant of that. But at least don't make it seem as if our life lost isn't worth respecting

I did not mean to be disrespectful. Sorry if I seemed to be.
But IMO the first victims of this war are the iraqi civilians who never asked to be involved into it.

According to "Iraqbody count" (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) there were more than 13000. And that figure is increasing every day.

About my supposed antamericanism : I am tired of this recurrent accusation. I have already denied it in many occasions, but if some members of this forum can't help putting labels on others, that's their problem. Gladly there are still many nice people to discuss (and even sometimes disagree) with.

Originally posted by astrapol2
I did not mean to be disrespectful. Sorry if I seemed to be.


Okay, thanks...I'm glad you didn't mean what I thought. :)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by astrapol2
[B]I did not mean to be disrespectful. Sorry if I seemed to be.
But IMO the first victims of this war are the iraqi civilians who never asked to be involved into it.

man astra......first i have to say that i agree wholeheartedly with this statement. second, what i respect about you, is that you seem to have your own mind. you dont seem to side with a party, you side with your feelings of whats right, and for that, i have much respect. too many people have the same argument for EVERYTHING that their party has......thats why i respect O.D. so much. its just nice to hear people who have opinions that dont sound like some scripted defense.. and i also hate the people who so quickly call people unamerican just because they care about human lives, not just american lives..........hats off to you and O.D..............and lastly, i hate that ANYONE has died for this crap which has proven to be more fishy by the minute !!!

Originally posted by HaVoK
Astro is just being true to himself. He has no respect for lost American life, just as most his fellow countrymen do not. .......havok, with all due respect, cruelty is not an opinion.........its just cruel.......we all care about the lives of our soldiers, who most of us that you are insulting, think shouldnt even BE there....we are not unamerican because we dont agree with this war !

Originally posted by korg
.......havok, with all due respect, cruelty is not an opinion.........its just cruel.......we all care about the lives of our soldiers, who most of us that you are insulting, think shouldnt even BE there....we are not unamerican because we dont agree with this war ! Astro isnt American korg. Like the majority of his fellow FRENCH countrymen he couldnt care less about American lives.

Also, with all due respect, everything is an opinion, or perception. I didnt realize i was insulting most of you by stating my opinion about someone of french origin who has never posted anything positive about my country and continually points out what he finds wrong with it. You see, Astro is unamerican because he IS french.

What the hell is wrong with you people on this forum who take offense when i state an opinion about someone? Seems a lot of you feel guilty about something and assume im talking about you even though i name who im talking about.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Astro isnt American korg. Like the majority of his fellow FRENCH countrymen he couldnt care less about American lives.

Also, with all due respect, everything is an opinion, or perception. I didnt realize i was insulting most of you by stating my opinion about someone of french origin who has never posted anything positive about my country and continually points out what he finds wrong with it. You see, Astro is unamerican because he IS french.

What the hell is wrong with you people on this forum who take offense when i state an opinion about someone? Seems a lot of you feel guilty about something and assume im talking about you even though i name who im talking about.

I'll agree that being French makes him unamerican, but that's about it. You're basically assuming that all French hate Americans, which isn't true, and that Astra must hate Americans because he's French, which also isn't true. I don't see how thinking it's a shame that Iraqis were killed means that he's happy that Americans have died.

He's just a guy living in France, he's not the French government and he's not Chirac.

There is nothing wrong for a non-American to be unamerican, so Havok could feel free to hate Astra to death for his unamericaness. It doesn't change any of Astra's integrity you know. His arguments are still just as valid. In fact, there really isn't anything wrong even for an American to be unamerican. Patriotism is not unconditional, even if you think it should be.

Thank you Lionel and Korissit of international opinion seems to believe, most french people do not hate american, even if it's true that most of us are very critical of the present american govt.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
You're basically assuming that all French hate Americans, which isn't true, and that Astra must hate Americans because he's French, which also isn't true. I don't see how thinking it's a shame that Iraqis were killed means that he's happy that Americans have died.

OK Lionel....i stated that this was my OPINION. Also, if you can show me where i said that Astro was HAPPY that americans have died then i will apologize for that. I said he had no respect for the american lives lost.

Originally posted by HaVoK
OK Lionel....i stated that this was my OPINION. Also, if you can show me where i said that Astro was HAPPY that americans have died then i will apologize for that. I said he had no respect for the american lives lost.
If I were Astrapol, I would be royally pissed at you, Havok, for making totally baseless blanket statements about a group of people you haven't even met! And even more specifically, Astra himself! You really have a lot of nerve...the audacity you are displaying is, frankly, appalling.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
You're basically assuming that all French hate Americans, which isn't true, and that Astra must hate Americans because he's French, which also isn't true. I said a majority. Since when is a majority ALL of a population?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
If I were Astrapol, I would be royally pissed at you, Havok, for making totally baseless blanket statements about a group of people you haven't even met! And even more specifically, Astra himself! You really have a lot of nerve...the audacity you are displaying is, frankly, appalling. Trust me, his anger means nothing to me. And you assume too much if you think i have never spent any time in France or know any French people.

And im sure if my audacity gets to be too much you will simply ban me.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Trust me, his anger means nothing to me. And you assume too much if you think i have never spent any time in France or know any French people.

And im sure if my audacity gets to be too much you will simply ban me.
Gods, you are an asshole...

Originally posted by HaVoK
I said a majority. Since when is a majority ALL of a population?

While you may have been to France and you may know many Frenchmen, I don't think you can accurately say that you know the opinion of a majority of them. I tend to believe astropol when he says that the majority of Frenchmen don't hate Americans but don't like our government.

Vile..... Uhm.... What the HELL have you done to your AV???? LOL
Anyway back to the topic, A 900 death toll is large in peace time but in a war when we have taken a country with the 4th largest military in the world and have fought terrorists for the entire time it is considered acceptible.
I know that alot of you are going to start yelling that no death is acceptible and I agree with that to a point. A person who enlists knows that someday they may have to sacrifice their life for the country. I knew it and so did those who died in Beirut and every war we have been in since the begining.
If you compare the losses in Iraq to Beirut, 9/11 or OK City then they look small to one day losses of 162 and up to 3k.
This is a war no matter if you all think it is just or not and in war people die to make the loss easier we must carry on the fight to stop terrorism or these 900 brave Americans will have died in vain and that is unacceptible.

The French love us and we love them -- Nuff said.

And while you're visiting their beautiful country, don't forget to stop by and say a blessing for Jim Morrison at Le Pere Lachaise Cemetery in eastern Paris.

If you don't take the challenge of finding Jim's grave while in Paris -- well, ya wasted your money. LOL.

It's not easy to find so here's my travel tip of the day.

Take either the Metro line 2 or 3 (depending on where you are) and get off at Pere Lachaise and head for the Le Pere Lachaise Cemetery. Here's how ...

When you come up on the street from the subway [sic] turn left and go to the corner where you cross to the right and then to the left (diagonal across the intersection) That puts you right in front of the cemetary entrance and note there is a small shop that sells cemetary maps.

If you're too cheap to spend a buck on a cemetary map -- well, you're gonna pay the price. LOL again. Buy the map -- it'll save ya mucho heartburn cause this cemetary is not easy to navigate. In fact -- it's a major challenge.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, wear your walking shoes -- yer gonna need them. ROTF.

Listening to 'LA woman'as we speak and please tell Jim that Dop says 'HI'.

Dop

Originally posted by astrapol2
And how many iraqi civilians ?
Define civilains? If you mean true civilians killed by our and other weapons then the totals are around 1200 if you mean those who fight in civilians clothes and when the weapon has been removed then the count is around 9k.
In this action most of the combatants we have faced were civilian clothed fighters who could drop the weapon and blend in to the population but when we killed them weapons were removed and some are counted as civilians.
NO this is not spin from a right wing website it is from the humaitarian site run by the UN and also from bodycount.com
Also I am confused by the count of soldiers killed. I saw this article on yahoo today that places the dead at a lower level.

And a U.S. marine died of wounds sustained in fighting west of Baghdad Friday, raising to 666 the number of troops killed in action in Iraq since last year's invasion
Kind of an ominous number dont you think?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Gods, you are an asshole... THANK YOU BORG !!!

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Define civilains? If you mean true civilians killed by our and other weapons then the totals are around 1200 if you mean those who fight in civilians clothes and when the weapon has been removed then the count is around 9k.
In this action most of the combatants we have faced were civilian clothed fighters who could drop the weapon and blend in to the population but when we killed them weapons were removed and some are counted as civilians.
NO this is not spin from a right wing website it is from the humaitarian site run by the UN and also from bodycount.com
Also I am confused by the count of soldiers killed. I saw this article on yahoo today that places the dead at a lower level.


Kind of an ominous number dont you think? that is true beirut, ive been saying that this has to be difficult for the soldiers because they CANT tell the enemy from the civilian.

Originally posted by korg
THANK YOU BORG !!! Egads, there's a thick crusty brown ring around your mouth. Oh yeah, Borg...you may kiss my ass much the same as krusty here is kissing yours.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Egads, there's a thick crusty brown ring around your mouth. Oh yeah, Borg...you may kiss my ass much the same as krusty here is kissing yours. YOU MAY BE AN ASS NOW, BUT YOU WERE SOMEBODY'S BABY ONCE !

Originally posted by HaVoK
Trust me, his anger means nothing to me. And you assume too much if you think i have never spent any time in France or know any French people.

And im sure if my audacity gets to be too much you will simply ban me.

I am not specially angry. I don't either consider you're audacious. Poor argumentation are the right words to qualify your post.

Back to the topic - my initial remark about the civilian deathtoll did not mean I don't care about the american death. It was more a reaction to the article, which does not mention even once the iraqi deads, civilians or soldiers. Like if they did not count, like if the only casualties in this war were the american soldiers. Sorry for these poor fellows but the Iraqi population has been the main victim of the war.

As a American, we're now in a new era of conflict. There are forces who are againist us, and they are in many corners of the world. They hate us for our freedom. They are againist the very progress that we have made.

Our hearts go out to all of those who have lost loved ones and are suffering now. We are with them as one, from one end of our country to the other.