http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5411741/site/newsweek

Newsweek

July 19 issue - American counterterrorism officials, citing what they call "alarming" intelligence about a possible Qaeda strike inside the United States this fall, are reviewing a proposal that could allow for the postponement of the November presidential election in the event of such an attack, NEWSWEEK has learned.

The prospect that Al Qaeda might seek to disrupt the U.S. election was a major factor behind last week's terror warning by Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge. Ridge and other counterterrorism officials concede they have no intel about any specific plots. But the success of March's Madrid railway bombings in influencing the Spanish elections—as well as intercepted "chatter" among Qaeda operatives—has led analysts to conclude "they want to interfere with the elections," says one official.

As a result, sources tell NEWSWEEK, Ridge's department last week asked the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel to analyze what legal steps would be needed to permit the postponement of the election were an attack to take place. Justice was specifically asked to review a recent letter to Ridge from DeForest B. Soaries Jr., chairman of the newly created U.S. Election Assistance Commission. Soaries noted that, while a primary election in New York on September 11, 2001, was quickly suspended by that state's Board of Elections after the attacks that morning, "the federal government has no agency that has the statutory authority to cancel and reschedule a federal election." Soaries, a Bush appointee who two years ago was an unsuccessful GOP candidate for Congress, wants Ridge to seek emergency legislation from Congress empowering his agency to make such a call. Homeland officials say that as drastic as such proposals sound, they are taking them seriously—along with other possible contingency plans in the event of an election-eve or Election Day attack. "We are reviewing the issue to determine what steps need to be taken to secure the election," says Brian Roehrkasse, a Homeland spokesman.

—Michael Isikoff
© 2004 Newsweek, Inc.


This scares the hell out of me. Postponing the election? I daresay there would be HUGE riots throughout the country -- potentially MORE damaging than the possible al Qaeda attack.

And aside from all that, there would be the obvious breakdown of a fair democratic process.

Can anybody give me logical reasoning behind this? I see in no reasons to take away freedoms for false promises of safety, it's been done with the Patriot Act. How can postponing a nationwide election protect us? I've been quite apologistic of the Bush administration by not comparing them to dictators, but they're getting really fucking close.

So that's what Dop was getting at. Sounds stupid to me. What's to keep them from moving the attack to the new election date? Besides, the minute we start letting them dictate when we have our elections, we've lost.

Not likely, Congress would have to amend the Constitution.

Not likely, Congress would have to amend the Constitution.
They passed the patriot act.

THIS ! does not suprise me at all. from the election, to this, this admin has been sneaky.......allllllllll they needed , was for some people to believe this bullshit they have been pulling. look , we have the country split in half on this bullshit we've been drawn into. now , they use it every moment. we almost forgot that there is a problem with soldiers dying everyday, or something as small as high gas prices. you see, if i can keep your mind off of your wallet, and focused on something else, i can steal your wallet. . this is high crime at its finest, and they are standing behind the american flag which makes it hard for you to question anything..............in the beginning we were told that if you didnt believe in this attack of iraq, you were unamerican, and against the soldiers........which couldnt be FURTHER from the truth ! you have to give it to bush, he used the one thing that would make this hard to question, our patriotism. to an american, there is no harder kick in the nuts........but tell me this, why all of a sudden, do they know everything NOW !?this alone should raise eyebrows. now, they know every planned attack ! SO FAR, BUSH IS THE ONLY "WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION" i've seen.......

Holy cow -- am I witnessing and awakening or what?

Yeah, all yall's been taken for a ride. And no vaseline -- how's it feel. ROTF.

Korg -- you're right. They hiding behind the flag and labelling all dissenters as unpatriotic or worse yet -- terrorists. Personally I'm used to it. Even my family and friends don't talk to me any more -- LOL.

Dan -- sorry but you're wrong :) old buddy. They have their bases covered on the constitutionality thingy stuff.

Tomorrow they begin pushing through an emergency bill that will allow one man to make the call. That man is Ridge. If the bill passes, he will have sole responsibility to move the election date, postpone it or cancel it. Howz that one fer ya? Bush doesn't even want to touch this one -- he's delegating Ridge.

But then again they're pretty good on passing the buck. Look at what Condi did on 9/11 -- she handed the controls to Richard Clarke (bet youz guyz and galz didn't know that -- didja?) and he had complete control of the country, especially with gwb hiding in Nebraska and cheney in hiding in his spider hole.

And don't worry, they have more surprises coming our way. Not just this one.

Dop

Ridge is my former governor - from the good ol' state of PA - I certainly wouldn't want that responsibility. Let's hope he does the right thing...but, being directly appointed by BUSH I highly doubt it.

If Florida is attacked -- SOMEONE may lose by a landslide. :D
Lionel is right, we were told not to let them direct our lives and to carry on as normal...otherwise they have control. We should carry on and give them the big "fuck you" sign.

It's funny that the "chatter" wasn't taken as seriously before 9/11. No, NOT funny...but terribly sad.

Postpone the elections? No way in hell. I've not heard of that being suggested during any of our Nation's crises, so why now? How is now any different than the constant threats of the Cold War, or WWII?

this is like the big todo about how we had plans to invade iraq before the war even started. of course we have plans drawn up for all sorts of things. a plan to postpone the election is nothing but fluff for a reproter with nothing better to do. we have a plan for what to do in the event of nuclear halaucaust too, does that mean we are about to launch the missles?

question

Lets say they postpone the election for a year does this mean Hillary won't be prez. until 2009? :D :D :D :D

Originally posted by Travh20
this is like the big todo about how we had plans to invade iraq before the war even started. of course we have plans drawn up for all sorts of things. a plan to postpone the election is nothing but fluff for a reproter with nothing better to do. we have a plan for what to do in the event of nuclear halaucaust too, does that mean we are about to launch the missles? oyou again huh ? once again not making any sense !

Dop, I can't see 50 state constitutions being amended between now and November to allow a postponment of elections.

Even Ridge's agency has said it would be a bureaucratic nightmare.

Dan

Back in the 80's Ronald Reagan put in place an organization (more of a process) we know as FEMA. Read up in this and you will see they (whoever they is) have the absolute right, during a national emergency, to shut down elections, declare martial law, setup internment camps and arrest/detain dissenters. And it can be done without having to pass muster with congress or the constitution.

We are not protected by the constitution on this one.

Dop

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Dop, I can't see 50 state constitutions being amended between now and November to allow a postponment of elections.

Even Ridge's agency has said it would be a bureaucratic nightmare. a lot of this stuff has been a nightmare, but it didnt stop it from happening . and to get their way, they dont care what kind of nightmare it is. these guys rigged an election to begin with.....but, ohhhh noooo you cant say that. just a coincidence that his brother happen to be governor of the state that happen to have a voting problem.........none of this crap suprises me, and what happens next shouldnt suprise YOU !...and this cant be no more of a nightmare than this WAR !

I bet korg and dop wouldnt be complaining if clinton was talking about the same thing. OK, dop would complain but not korg, or overdose.

Originally posted by Travh20
I bet korg and dop wouldnt be complaining if clinton was talking about the same thing. OK, dop would complain but not korg, or overdose. YOU KNOW WHAT TRAVH, im not partisan. there are alot of democrats i DO NOT agree with, and alot of republicans i have respect for. and i would no more like this if clinton did it that if that snake bush did it. i pride myself in being led by my thoughts. with partisan stuff, it comes in a package. i agree with some of what the dems stand for , and some of what the republicans stand for . what bothers me is that most people are either democrat or republican. that means that you only follow one ideaology or another. but if that package has some things in it that i dont agree with, i dont follow it. YOU seem to be a lot more partisan than me ! there are things that are happening that im sure if it were done by a democrat, YOU would have been against it.........YOU are a lot more LOYAL than i.........so, shut up about what you think i am, when you have proven to be a lot worst when it comes to being loyal NO MATTER WHAT !

Here's an interesting point --

This forum, like most others I hang around, so far is 100% dead against stopping the election. PERIOD. Add that's the way it should be. All americans, right, left and center should pull together to keep anyone from taking away our constitutional protections.

But, over on the hard core right wing sites, you find half of the members at least as being for the elections cancelled or stopped to keep bush in power. They will gladly give up their constitutional rights to get bush reelected.

Absolutely un-F'n-believable -- and these are the same people that tell me I'm unpatriotic.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Here's an interesting point --

This forum, like most others I hang around, so far is 100% dead against stopping the election. PERIOD. Add that's the way it should be. All americans, right, left and center should pull together to keep anyone from taking away our constitutional protections.

But, over on the hard core right wing sites, you find half of the members at least as being for the elections cancelled or stopped to keep bush in power. They will gladly give up their constitutional rights to get bush reelected.

Absolutely un-F'n-believable -- and these are the same people that tell me I'm unpatriotic.

Dop t r a v h !!! loyal enough to for go his rights as an american, to keep his bush happy............what a happy loyal little camper he is

I am not a republican, I am an independant conservative. and I would like dop to show me some conservatives who are for canceling the election. anyway, no one has said anything of the sort. Some people want to develop a plan B, just in case something drastic happens at eleecion time. what if hundreds of suicide bombers start blowing up polling places across the country? should we just say screw it and go on with buisness as usual? people that want this to be some sor tof infinate power grab by bush are the ones hyping this, anyone with a freaking brain knows that its nothing more than a contingency plan in case all hell breaks loose on election day. I for one dont tthink we should do anything to the elections becasue that is what the terrorists are going for, so unless several nukes are detonated all over the country then we should drive on. pulling a spain is the last thing we should do.

Some people want to develop a plan B, just in case something drastic happens at eleecion time. what if hundreds of suicide bombers start blowing up polling places across the country? should we just say screw it and go on with buisness as usual? people that want this to be some sor tof infinate power grab by bush are the ones hyping this, anyone with a freaking brain knows that its nothing more than a contingency plan in case all hell breaks loose on election day. I for one dont tthink we should do anything to the elections becasue that is what the terrorists are going for, so unless several nukes are detonated all over the country then we should drive on.

It's amazing to me how many people can misread Trav's posts. LOL! Looks like Trav has a good following lately. LOL.

Anyway, I have to agree with him here. There should be a plan "b" just in case it should be needed. That being said, however, this time it shouldn't be reverted to UNLESS something drastic (like nukes, suicide bombers at NYC, DC, Los Angeles, etc. voting places) happens. This should not be Plan A for this election...because that's just what the terrorists (and possibly Bush supporters) want.

Ok people, you're making this way too complicated. Nukes going off everywhere and thousand of people killed and poison gasses filling the subways -- none of that is going to happen.

Here's a couple of simple ways for the constitution grabbers to use this idea of cancelled elections to keep bush in office.

1) This one is so simple it's laughable -- setup checkpoints in the major cities -- this will act to add confusion and fear to the overall atmosphere which will encourage voters to stay home rather than vote -- the checkpoints will be placed only in heavy democratic precincts. Dems stay home -- republicans win cities they haven't taken in years -- Chicago, NYC, LA etc. Pretty simple stuff here but very effective.

2) This one is much more clever yet simplistic enough that even the chimp can understand it and it's the one I think they will go with.

The city will be Los Angeles -- there will be an attack but not one that kills thousands of people. It will be a one that creates much destruction and creates havoc throughout the city but keeps the death count reasonable -- certainly well below the 3000 from 9/11. It will happen sometime between 10AM and noon. Here's the why's of it ...

California is known to have a voting pattern (maybe other states do too) where during the early voting (let's say before noon) the voting trends toward republican. Then later in the afternoon and early evening the majority of the democrat votes starts coming in and catch up and usually pass the republican votes. I have no idea why this pattern exists -- but it does.

So it would be reasonable to believe that if one was to count the votes between 10AM and noon, the republicans would win the state cause the heavy dem vote has not come in yet.

So at that time frame, the attack happens, Arnold the gropenator steps in and stops the elections state-wide and this is an important part of it *HE STOPS THE ELECTION* not *CANCEL OR POSTPONE* which means the votes already cast will count and no one else gets to vote. See the beauty of it yet? That late dem surge never happens cause the polls are closed.

Bush goes on to win the state of California with it's 55 EC's. With CA in his column -- it's a done deal. He holds the white house.

The only people pissed off will be the Californians and none of the other states feel sorry for them cause all CA does anyway is whine, whine, whine -- just look at all those spoiled brats in Hollywood. LOL.

None of the other states are affected so there is no national outrage and CA becomes the Florida of '04. The supreme court once again shoots down any attempt at a revote in the state and Arnold suppresses it at the state level.

Pretty simple stuff.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Ok people, you're making this way too complicated. Nukes going off everywhere and thousand of people killed and poison gasses filling the subways -- none of that is going to happen.



Dop

your right, compard to the rest of your post this just looks plain silly :rolleyes:

Trav

I'm not really following why you have a problem with one sentence in my post but then again, I usually don't understand your logic anyway.

Dop

dop, its just that you cast aside any threat of terrorism as crazy and instead decide that michief from our own government is the real danger. just becasue you dont like the administration doesnt mean they are automatically plotting to end the way we know government.

That's where you and I differ Trav -- I really do think they are planning on suspending the constitution and handing the government over to the white house and FEMA. I don't have the faith in them to do the right thing like you do and I'm not knocking your opinion. That's your constitutional right -- well as long as there is a constitution.

Dop

hey, so why not cancel christmas, better yet, lets not play ANY sports at all. how about cancelling any shopping. as a matter of fact, lets just stop driving and living. this is crazy. all of a sudden you think we can think like terrorist. they are known to out smart us, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE TELL THEM WHAT WE ARE EXPECTING !!!..... this is crazy. we should either stop living life as we know it, or stop living scared. if they hit us, wouldnt that be the most important thing......not the DAY they decide to hit us........we have shown to have absolutely no idea....for every raising of terror threat, there has been nothing unusual.....except for a couple of sympathizers who just want to make our own paranoia a reality.....like i say, now all of a sudden, we are an authority on terrorist and their activities......we will never know. if we didnt figure out 911 with all of the info we had, we wont figure anything else.........but we keep giving them ideas, and you guys keep buying into the scare tactics.........

here we go again. ever since 9-11 I have noticed the left can go one of two ways, based on the moment and the target audience.

way # 1- there really is no terrorist threat, all these threats and patriot act are a way for a giant power grab to end our constitutional democracy and give to george bush (karl rove) endless power for eternity.

Way # 2- there is an extreme threat that bush is not taking seriously enough, and he needs to go becaue he is not doing enough to keep us safe. look at all the bombing in the world! look at al qeadas ranks are swelling!

I have seen both trains of thought from the same people.

According to McCain, who spoke today, they will NOT postpone the election nor should they. Wouldn't that be letting terrorism win?

2thecore

Welcome to the forums.

McCain doesn't know didley about what would happen -- he's not on the inside of the cheney/rumsfeld/baker/murdock/rev moon/mosad/chiron/bin laden/bandar/pnac/carlyle group that makes the real decisions.

Dop

thats a lot of chiefs you got their dop.

The head of a new federal voting commission suggested to congressional leaders Monday that there should be a process for canceling or rescheduling an election interrupted by terrorism, but national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said no such plan is being considered by the administration.

Federal officials warned last week that intelligence indicates al-Qaida wants to attack the United States to disrupt the upcoming elections.

Man o man. What this 2 party system has led us to.
The potential power these people yield.
Now the sky is falling.
Years and years of 2 party rule has come to this.
Americans affraid of their own leaders.

Originally posted by jon_37920
Federal officials warned last week that intelligence indicates al-Qaida wants to attack the United States to disrupt the upcoming elections.

so we are going to accomodate them, thats dumb :rolleyes:

Sorry to cut & paste again, but this post from "The Whiskey Bar" political blog offers some pretty serious food for thought:

"After reading this Newsweek story, it's hard not to wonder whether a bureaucratic name change might not be in the making:

"Election Day Worries

"[The Homeland Security Department] last week asked the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel to analyze what legal steps would be needed to permit the postponement of the election were an attack to take place. Justice was specifically asked to review a recent letter to Ridge from DeForest B. Soaries Jr., chairman of the newly created U.S. Election Assistance Commission...

"Soaries, a Bush appointee who two years ago was an unsuccessful GOP candidate for Congress, wants Ridge to seek emergency legislation from Congress empowering his agency to make such a call. Homeland officials say that as drastic as such proposals sound, they are taking them seriously—along with other possible contingency plans in the event of an election-eve or Election Day attack.


"I'm trying very hard not to be overly paranoid about this - which isn't easy considering the cast of characters involved. I don't know anything about Soaries or his political connections, and considering the administration's past patronage practices, I probably don't want to know.

"But before rushing to the conclusion that this is the opening move in a plot to overthrow the Constitution of the United States and make George "Baby Doc" Bush president for life (Shrub: Well, it would make things easier...) maybe we should try the following thought experiment:

"Suppose that one week before election day, the United States is hit by a major terrorist attack - I mean a really big one, like a dirty bomb on the Washington Mall or a liquified gas tanker exploding in the port of a major American city.

"Suppose that on the eve of the attack, national polls and the electoral math both show Kerry-Edwards clinging to a narrow lead over Bush-Cheney, one that appears sufficient, barely, to put the Democrats back in the White House.

"Let's further suppose that a week after the attack, on the eve of the election, those same national polls show an enormous "rally around the President" effect, one that pushes Bush's approval ratings back towards 80% - not only enough to guarantee Shrub a landslide reelection victory, but also enough to sweep the Republicans to a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate and a 1932 or 1974-sized edge in our Chamber of People's Deputies.

"Under those circumstances, would you want the election to be held as scheduled? Or would you rather it was postponed for a month, until the initial shock had passed and the voters had had a chance to consider whether the administration's incompetence and the relative indifference of the GOP Congress to homeland security needs might not have contributed to the disaster?

"If your answer is yes, you definitely would want the election to go forward on the scheduled day, terrorist attack or no terrorist attack, then I guess you're entitled to regard any legal tampering as an automatic outrage.

"But if your answer is no, you would not want the election to go forward on November 2 under the conditions I have described, then you have to acknowledge that some kind of legal mechanism needs to be created soon to allow someone in a position of national authority to make the call to postpone the election.

"But who should that someone be? There's the rub, of course. The Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate the dates of popular elections to the House and (thanks to the 17th amendment) the Senate, and to set a single, national date for the meeting of presidential electors. But - as we all learned during the Florida fiasco - Article II also gives the state legislatures absolute power to determine how those electors are selected. Does that extend to changing the date for a state's presidential popular election - assuming a legislature chooses to hold one at all?

"I'm going to guess that in the end, a doctrine will be found (or created) that will enable Congress to postpone the November election in the event of a national emergency - and allow it to delegate that authority to the executive branch.

"But who in the executive branch? And under what conditions would he or she be permitted to exercise that authority? Or, as the Romans might have put it: Who will watch the watchers - or the watchers of the watchers?

"I think it should be obvious to just about everyone that the guy with his finger on the trigger shouldn't be the chairman of the Federal Election Assistance Commission. But in a government that's completely controlled by one political party, it's hard to see how any mechanism can be devised that will be both nonpartisan and accepted as nonpartisan by both sides. That's especially true in the wake of the Florida fiasco and the political ruthlessness it revealed, not least on the bench of the highest court in the land.

"Chickens. Home. Roosting.

"In a previous post, I noted the curious fact that the history of the U.S. Constitution can be divided into three periods, each of precisely 72 years. The first began with the Philadelphia convention and ended with the firing on Ft. Sumter, which rung down the curtain on the aristocratic republic the founders had created. The second period stretched from Ft. Sumter to FDR's Hundred Days, and the peaceful revolution that created the modern welfare state. The third will take us to 2005, and the inauguration of the next president - assuming there's an election to be followed by that inauguration.

"I've been wondering whether this year's election would prove as momentous as 1860, or 1932 - or whether the 72-year pattern is just historical coincidence. I guess at this point all we can do is pray that the former theory isn't proven true by another 9/11."

[From Billmon's "The Whiskey Bar" blog, at http://billmon.org/ .]

Now that I know of this thread, I'll repost another thing I posted about this issue in another thread:

My own opinion regarding postponing elections is that in most situations, that's way too much power to give to the executive branch. The only situation in which I would possibly agree with even a brief postponement would be if there were a series of terrorist attacks so bad that our society's ability to function were being impaired as a result. And call me a conspiracy nut if you wish, but were an entire series of such society-crippling attacks successfully carried out, I would tend to think that they were allowed to happen by people in power who knew about these impending events. After all, the long arm of US and international law has thwarted more than a few major terrorist plots in the past. Why shouldn't it continue to be able to do so unless by design? See the article linked below about Clinton Administration successes in fighting international terrorism.


http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/101303A.shtml

Interesting to me that in history dictators played with elections.
A dictator does not have to be an individual, can be a party or group of people willing to do anything to hold on to power.

Even a postponement in our elections would eventually have to give way to elections.
Those that play with elections in our country should be commiting political suicide. I hope the voting masses see it this way.

In all actuality...it's probably the government themselves who will be staging any so-called "attack" during the election time period and blaming it on Al-Qaeda or Taliban or some other Arab organization. All of this just to keep power and to scare the bejesus out of all of us. :D

:rolleyes: you cant be serious cricket

The guy on FOX just said Al-Quida has 7 suitcase nukes inside the united states right now.

OK, then why aren't they arresting these people and providing us the safety they assured us with the Homeland security, Patriot act and the capture of Saddam? Why aren't all those tortured and raped young boys and girls in Abu-ghraib giving us the information we need to catch these People? Oh, they're too busy getting sodomized you say. I forgot.

Well it seems they can't cause they don't know where, why, who, when or how same as usual. After 3000 more people are killed, then maybe they'll know something -- that's providing they find a pristing passport in the aftermath and video's left by the perps accepting blame in the name of OBL, Saddam, gays and Hillary lovers.

7 suitcase nukes??????? WOW! that oughta get the elections cancelled.

Where did the american people find these amateurs?

ROTFLMAO

Dop

its nice that you can pick and chhose what to believe from foxnews

Originally posted by Travh20
its nice that you can pick and chhose what to believe from foxnews hey travh................i said shut up !....lmao

like I give a rats ass what you say korg

Originally posted by Travh20
like I give a rats ass what you say korg you are a rats ass

and your what comes out of it

And this thread is closed.