"It is sadly very possible that many 15- and 16-year-olds will be asked and recruited to serve in Iraq in the next couple of years," Moore said in a weekend statement. "If they are old enough to be recruited and capable of being in combat and risking their lives, they certainly deserve the right to see what is going on in Iraq. (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=5419571)"

shaman, we do not recruit 15 and 16 year olds to fight in wars, never have. even in WW2 we didt draft 15 and 16 year olds. this is the stupidest post you have yet made, and thats saying something. and why are you quoting michael moore as your source about draft ages? internet running out of stuff for you to cut and paste already?

Originally posted by Travh20
shaman, we do not recruit 15 and 16 year olds to fight in wars, never have. even in WW2 we didt draft 15 and 16 year olds. this is the stupidest post you have yet made, and thats saying something. and why are you quoting michael moore as your source about draft ages? internet running out of stuff for you to cut and paste already?

Trav, while I don't agree with Shaman's style, I think it's pretty obvious that he's saying that people who are 15 and 16 years old today will be of drafting age in a few years...

this is dumb, of course 15 and 16 year olds of every year will be serving in a couple years, that goes without saying. I think shaman and that fat bastard moore should go to iraq and embed with an army infantry unit to give us an eyewitness account of "what is going on in Iraq", hat is if they didnt fall out of the first patrol or accidnetally run in front of a machine guns field of fire as it fired on the "insurgents"

Originally posted by Travh20
shaman, we do not recruit 15 and 16 year olds to fight in wars, never have. even in WW2 we didt draft 15 and 16 year olds. this is the stupidest post you have yet made, and thats saying something. and why are you quoting michael moore as your source about draft ages? internet running out of stuff for you to cut and paste already?
Sounds like your comprehension-batteries have died......again. :@@:

Soooooooo.....these (present) 15 & 16 year-olds are permanently that age, huh?

It's a miracle!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Travh20
this is dumb, of course 15 and 16 year olds of every year will be serving in a couple years, that goes without saying.
Gee......that's pretty-much a certainty, huh?? ;)

Your Draft is showing. :p

hey, your the one who used the stupid wording, I guess thats what you get when you use miceal moore as your source.

there is nothing wrong wiht rated R
:)
ti doesnt matter i know the guys who work at my local movie theater and they always let me into movies

Originally posted by rated R
there is nothing wrong wiht rated R
:)
ti doesnt matter i know the guys who work at my local movie theater and they always let me into movies
Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! :eek:

Ya' wanna end-up in one o' Mullah Asscroft's undisclosed-locations????? :confused:

Mr Shaman they have new meds for Paranoid conditions now..... :D

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Mr Shaman they have new meds for Paranoid conditions now..... :D
No thanks.

I wouldn't want someone-in-need to come up short.

Trav, what you don't seem to get is that 15 year olds are recruited for the army, even if they csan't serve yet. we have recruiters walking around our lunchroom pestering people on a regular basis. we have posters up all around school touting how lovely the army is. my mom had to make sure the office took me off a mailing list to receive mail from the army. high schoolers are bombarded with this stuff.
but if thre film ratings board really thinks that giving something an r rating will really keep teenagers out of movies they are sorely mistaken. the only movie theater around me that is showing the movie has been selling me tickets to r rated movies since I looked about 13.

no whammybar, I do get it. I wasnt drafted into the army, I joined through a recruiter like everyone else in the past 30 years. i dont get this genration, they dont want to get drafted but dont seem to want the recriters to recruit either. how exactly do you propose we fill the ranks whammybar?

there;s nothing wrong with the recruiters, you just have to acknowledge that they are there with 15 year olds. people who are being recruited for the army should have all the information they want about it.

whne did I ever say that recruiteres are not recruiting high school students? of course they do. the military is a young persons game. older people who go in as privates have a hard time taking orders, 18 year olds are much better suited for it. there is no way that I could go into the military as a private at my age now, I would wind up slapping the 24 year oldLT trying to tell me what to do, but at 18 a 24 year old officer is a big bad adult who you look up to. So, in closing, I know recruiters recruit young people, thats the point. they dont go to factories and mechanic shops, they go to high schools and colleges.

The point is : if people of 15-16 are supposed to be old enough to be a target for army recruiters, they should also be considered old enough to see movies about the war. That makes sense to me.

umm, who is stopping them from seeing a movie? I hope this isnt that big made up scandal where moore claimed the government was trying to silence him. what a joke. anyway, that movie is full of shit. go to moorewatch.com. I cant believe everyone takes all this micheal moore propapganda with a straight face. like missing this movie will leave us all in the dark :rolleyes:

Originally posted by WhammyBar
Trav, what you don't seem to get is that 15 year olds are recruited for the army, even if they csan't serve yet. we have recruiters walking around our lunchroom pestering people on a regular basis. we have posters up all around school touting how lovely the army is. my mom had to make sure the office took me off a mailing list to receive mail from the army. high schoolers are bombarded with this stuff.
but if thre film ratings board really thinks that giving something an r rating will really keep teenagers out of movies they are sorely mistaken. the only movie theater around me that is showing the movie has been selling me tickets to r rated movies since I looked about 13.


you are making the army seem like a bad thing. if i dont get a scholarship, I am seriously considering joining the military. for many kids it is the best option and to get kids to recruite ISN'T a bad thing. I am in high school and am never bombarded with anything. i think that you havent been to school in a while and you are just exagerating the whole situation. there is no one i know who gets bombarded with naything from the government and i go to a run down high school with a pretty low graduation rate, whammyBar

P.S
cool that you like radiohead. they rule

First of all let me say, got to love the name no moore please....
Anyway TO say that a person who is old enough to be talked to by the military but still at least 2-3 away from recruitment is also old enough to see a movie rated r is wrong.
You can join the military, fight and die for your country but you are 3 years away from legal drinking age, no one has made a point of this yet.
Moores film is not what I would call research material for deciding if you want to join the service. There are plenty of sources not rated r that can be more unbiased and even probably more entertaining.

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
First of all let me say, got to love the name no moore please....
Anyway TO say that a person who is old enough to be talked to by the military but still at least 2-3 away from recruitment is also old enough to see a movie rated r is wrong.
You can join the military, fight and die for your country but you are 3 years away from legal drinking age, no one has made a point of this yet.
Moores film is not what I would call research material for deciding if you want to join the service. There are plenty of sources not rated r that can be more unbiased and even probably more entertaining.

michael moore is a man i truly dislike. he plays it like he is showing everyone the truth and that his way is right and the government is so wrong. i know that his new movie is just propaganda for liberals

Dont give Moore too much credit, he maybe spouting liberal mantra but he is in it for the almighty dollar. And that should tell everyone here that he doesnt care anymore than those he bad mouths.
If this film was truly a way to let everyone know his point it would be shown free all over the country.
Yes Moore is an idiot who exploits tragedy to line his pockets, always has, always will.

and you know mr.shaman to say that the truth is michael moore might just be the funniest thing i have ever heard. if he can get the r-rating down...he makes more money. it's just that simple

Of course he is demographic is 13-18 year olds. SO yes he would make more money.

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
an idiot who exploits tragedy to line his pockets, always has, always will.

Sounds like Halliburton...

I thought capitalism is good. Shouldn't you approve of it no matter who is involved, and subject matter it covers?

I have never thought using any tragedy for profit was anything other than despicable. Haliburton and other corps are playing the system and until now they have won, but it all levels out.
Moore has used two tragedies to line his pockets, Columbine and 9/11.
Both should be prosecuted but only one will be, Haliburton.

Originally posted by no moore please
you are making the army seem like a bad thing. if i dont get a scholarship, I am seriously considering joining the military. for many kids it is the best option and to get kids to recruite ISN'T a bad thing. I am in high school and am never bombarded with anything. i think that you havent been to school in a while and you are just exagerating the whole situation. there is no one i know who gets bombarded with naything from the government and i go to a run down high school with a pretty low graduation rate, whammyBar

P.S
cool that you like radiohead. they rule

I understand the importance of the army, and the fact that it is a good option for people who would otherwise be uinable to afford college. I also go to a rundown school with a 40% graduation rate. there is a huge cardbourd display in my library touting the marines, with tons of brochures on how to sign up. as I said, there are recruiters arpnd at lunch om a reuglar basis, and we get army stuff from the same mailing list as all the college junk mail. if you stay late enough fater school you get to see the ROTC kids marching down the hall with fake guns in their hands. my school is full of stuff promoting the army, and I'm not exaggerating at all.
radiohread do rock, for their music, and for their politics.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
I understand the importance of the army, and the fact that it is a good option for people who would otherwise be uinable to afford college. I also go to a rundown school with a 40% graduation rate. there is a huge cardbourd display in my library touting the marines, with tons of brochures on how to sign up. as I said, there are recruiters arpnd at lunch om a reuglar basis, and we get army stuff from the same mailing list as all the college junk mail. if you stay late enough fater school you get to see the ROTC kids marching down the hall with fake guns in their hands. my school is full of stuff promoting the army, and I'm not exaggerating at all.
radiohread do rock, for their music, and for their politics.


you are wrong about their politics.....by far. go try to see whatt they believe. it is a little scary. thank God they dont put it in their music

bombarded is an exagerration. if it is just around, no problem. bombardment is like they are forcing stuff at you every day.....they dont do that

radiohead have incredible politics, and voice them freely in their music. their music is full of social and polticl commentary. have you looked at their lyrics? Thom Yorke is a paranoid, scared man, and he talks about al the flaws of our consumeristic and shallow socxiety in his songs. he also writes about politics very directly. it's not scary, they're right: our society is fucked up. good for them for singing about it.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
radiohead have incredible politics, and voice them freely in their music. their music is full of social and polticl commentary. have you looked at their lyrics? Thom Yorke is a paranoid, scared man, and he talks about al the flaws of our consumeristic and shallow socxiety in his songs. he also writes about politics very directly. it's not scary, they're right: our society is fucked up. good for them for singing about it.

i listen to the music because it sounds good. radiohead are ridiculous people who have been in the spotlight too long. i still love their music, but their politics are BAD

that is my opinion

I love them becasue of their music, and happne to think it's really awesome and adore then more because of their politics. either way, atleats you like good music. :D

Originally posted by WhammyBar
radiohead have incredible politics, and voice them freely in their music. their music is full of social and polticl commentary. have you looked at their lyrics? Thom Yorke is a paranoid, scared man, and he talks about al the flaws of our consumeristic and shallow socxiety in his songs. he also writes about politics very directly. it's not scary, they're right: our society is fucked up. good for them for singing about it.
ever heard of Bob Dylan, Joan Baez and others? they sang the same lyrics and guess what? they are conservatives now, well the ones still alive anyway.
Politics and music do not mix, it is entertainment and maybe just maybe they dont feel that way. Maybe it was written to make money.
A true prophet would give away the message.

I grew up on music like Bob Dylan and Joan Baez. lots of money tends to make people conservatives.
music and poltics most certainly do mix. corporate music and poltics do not. indie bands tend to be the really outspoken ones. ever listened to old school british punk? or rage against the machine? that is some awesome poltically motivated music. The Bealtes, the Clash, Pearl Jam, all had poltics in their music.

Yes they did and it was more for the selling power than anything else. This was said not long ago by record execs.
I do not want to preached to by entertainers and I dont want to be entertained by politicians.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
Thom Yorke is a paranoid, scared man, and he talks about al the flaws of our consumeristic and shallow socxiety

I love how so many musicians that have become filthy rich from a consumeristic society are against consumeristic societies.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
I love them becasue of their music, and happne to think it's really awesome and adore then more because of their politics. either way, atleats you like good music. :D

even though you like radiohead, you still like the strokes so i cant say the same for you. sorry!

Joan Baez, gone conservative ? Where did ypu folks get that funny idea ?

"The war on Iraq has given her a new crusading zeal. Last spring, she found herself singing in anti-war rallies in San Francisco, just like in the old days. She has become part of the unofficial public opposition to President Bush - not always to her audience's approval.
(…)
Her new album is dedicated to Michael Stupid White Men Moore, whose Oscars-night vilification of the Prez ("Shame on you, Mr Bush!") she admired. "What he did at the Academy Awards took guts. You know you're going to get shot down, you know people are going to write you hideous mail, but he just went ahead and did it. Very few people were booing, but it was presented as if he was booed off the stage. I thought his line about how we have 'a fictitious President' was really true. So I thought I'd dedicate the new record to him."

(http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/interviews/story.jsp?story=482630)

Originally posted by no moore please
even though you like radiohead, you still like the strokes so i cant say the same for you. sorry!

I only like the first album, which is undeniably good. they lost it on the second one, even though it's a decent album. anyways, Lou Reed likes them, and what Lou says goes.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Joan Baez, gone conservative ? Where did ypu folks get that funny idea ?

"The war on Iraq has given her a new crusading zeal. Last spring, she found herself singing in anti-war rallies in San Francisco, just like in the old days. She has become part of the unofficial public opposition to President Bush - not always to her audience's approval.
(…)
Her new album is dedicated to Michael Stupid White Men Moore, whose Oscars-night vilification of the Prez ("Shame on you, Mr Bush!") she admired. "What he did at the Academy Awards took guts. You know you're going to get shot down, you know people are going to write you hideous mail, but he just went ahead and did it. Very few people were booing, but it was presented as if he was booed off the stage. I thought his line about how we have 'a fictitious President' was really true. So I thought I'd dedicate the new record to him."

(http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/interviews/story.jsp?story=482630)
She was a supporter of Bush until Moore sttod up and now he has gone back to the liberal side again for money. A new protest album aimed at 14-18 yo is being released. Mostly vietnam songs and such.
A person who believes in their message doesnt charge for it.

Hollywood makes the left fashionable these days, just like they did to being gay. That's enough said.

Originally posted by FiveThumbsMcGee
Hollywood makes the left fashionable these days, just like they did to being gay. That's enough said.

Perhaps more than enough thumbs...:hitout:

Originally posted by FiveThumbsMcGee
Hollywood makes the left fashionable these days, just like they did to being gay. That's enough said.

I guess you didn't catch the "fad", because you are 16, and not liberal, because your "signature" says "Liberalism is a disease" which just proves your ignorance.

:p

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
First of all let me say, got to love the name no moore please....
Anyway TO say that a person who is old enough to be talked to by the military but still at least 2-3 away from recruitment is also old enough to see a movie rated r is wrong.
Ah, yes.......exposing them to unsavory-language, a few boobs and death-and-destruction......2-3 years prior to them being required to such exposure would definintely corrupt their souls.


Moores film is not what I would call research material for deciding if you want to join the service. There are plenty of sources not rated r that can be more unbiased and even probably more entertaining.
Soooo......you've already seen it?

Whether you are liberal or conservative, you should see this movie. Until you see it, I don’t want anyone to attack or criticize it. Watch it, attack it (if you want). Don’t watch it, shut up.

:) Thanks

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
I do not want to preached to by entertainers.......
How 'bout entertainers who did-their-time????? (http://www.countryjoe.com/)

Originally posted by no moore please
and you know mr.shaman to say that the truth is michael moore might just be the funniest thing i have ever heard. if he can get the r-rating down...he makes more money. it's just that simple
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah.....that R-rating really impacts DVD-sales!! :p

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Yes Moore is an idiot who exploits tragedy to line his pockets, always has, always will.
Yeah.......how dare he flag people (so early) about corporate-greed?? (http://www.fact-index.com/r/ro/roger___me.html)

That's downright un-American!!!!!!

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Politics and music do not mix.......
Ah, yes........but, politics & John Wayne movies do mix, right????? :rolleyes:

There's always room for combat-music (http://www.battlenotes.com/Music_of_Combat.html), though!!!! :woohoo:

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
Yeah.......how dare he flag people (so early) about corporate-greed?? (http://www.fact-index.com/r/ro/roger___me.html)

That's downright un-American!!!!!!
Did I say making money was Un-American? NO I said anuone who does it under the guise of being a whislte blower using a tragedy as their back drop is a blood sucking heartless moron.
Or in other words Michael Moore.

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
Ah, yes........but, politics & John Wayne movies do mix, right????? :rolleyes:

There's always room for combat-music (http://www.battlenotes.com/Music_of_Combat.html), though!!!! :woohoo:
Nope, I dont want to hear any entertainer open their big fat mouths on politics unless they have the balls to run for office.
Just because someone is a celebrity doesnt mean I give a damn about their political views, so I say "Shut up and sing"

Originally posted by WhammyBar
there;s nothing wrong with the recruiters, you just have to acknowledge that they are there with 15 year olds. people who are being recruited for the army should have all the information they want about it.
.....And, all available input!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2004/db040614.gif

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2004/db040615.gif

A political cartoon is what you base your opinion on? I thought you had a mind Shaman. Because Doonesbury has never been liberal huh?

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Did I say making money was Un-American? NO I said anuone who does it under the guise of being a whislte blower using a tragedy as their back drop is a blood sucking heartless moron.
Or in other words Michael Moore.
Ah, yes......DAMN those whistle-blowers!!!!!!

"This film, financed partly by Michael Moore's mortgaging of his home and partly by bingo fundraisers, was meant to be a personal statement over his anger not just at GM, but also the economic policies and social attitudes of the United States government which allows a corporation to remove the largest source of a town's income from that town. The film proved to be the most successful documentary in American history in its theatrical run and enjoyed wide critical acclaim. In response, General Motors threatened to pull advertising on any TV show which interviewed Michael Moore."

what has that got to do with his use of 9/11 and columbine? Nothing, stay focused...

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Nope, I dont want to hear any entertainer open their big fat mouths on politics unless they have the balls to run for office.
Just because someone is a celebrity doesnt mean I give a damn about their political views, so I say "Shut up and sing"
That's bullshit.

What you resent is the fact they have the ambition and drive to build a bigger soapbox than you've managed to do!!!!!

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
A political cartoon is what you base your opinion on?
I thought it was appropriate!

From what I understand, those folks who're most anti-war, are the ones who've BEEN THERE!!!!!!

What's your excuse?? :confused:

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
what has that got to do with his use of 9/11 and columbine? Nothing, stay focused...
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......so, when you say:

"Dont give Moore too much credit, he maybe spouting liberal mantra but he is in it for the almighty dollar. And that should tell everyone here that he doesnt care anymore than those he bad mouths.
Yes Moore is an idiot who exploits tragedy to line his pockets, always has, always will."

.......it was conditional on which of his movies we're discussing.......and, you simply forgot to mention that!!

Then, there's: "If this film was truly a way to let everyone know his point it would be shown free all over the country."

.......Yet, you also said: "Did I say making money was Un-American? NO I said anyone who does it under the guise of being a whislte blower using a tragedy as their back drop is a blood sucking heartless moron.
Or in other words Michael Moore."

Is hypocrisy something all you conservatives study, in night-school.......or, is it a genetic-condition?????


:@@:

Do all of my posts refer to the tragedies? Yep sure do..... I dont care if Moore preaches from a higher soap box than I dom as I only have this site and havent tried to go any further so I guess I am not that jealous huh?
I am sick of Moore and his holier than us attitude, he is nothing more than a loon who is making monbey from idiots who think he believes what he is saying. Does he give all the profits from his film into the local community he is so concerned about?
Or does he line his pockets with it?
Tell me Mr. Shaman.

shaman, will you please calm down.......

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Does he give all the profits from his film into the local community he is so concerned about?
Or does he line his pockets with it?
Tell me Mr. Shaman.
Sounds, to me, like he's (continually) investing-in a bigger soapbox!!

Whatta drag (for the NeoCons), huh????? :p

Originally posted by WhammyBar
shaman, will you please calm down.......
Yeah........THAT'S gonna happen!!!!! (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/204437p-176351c.html) :D

"Moore's diminished screen time may surprise his fans and detractors. (See: Beirut_Veteran :D)

"I didn't want the character of Michael Moore to be the focus," he says. "I don't want to dominate the subject matter [of my films]. In the past, my role was to help it along, but in this case the subject matter and the individuals in the film were so powerful that it didn't need that kind of help. As I have become more well known, I feel like a little bit of me goes a long way."

That's certainly how his targets feel; they are anxious to make him go away.

Take the scene in "Fahrenheit 9/11" in which campaigning Texas Gov. George Bush advises Moore dismissively, "Behave yourself, will you? Go find real work."

Bush may now wish he had taken Moore seriously. In his no-holds-barred look at the Bush presidency, the filmmaker brands it illegitimate from the beginning.

"Fahrenheit 9/11" begins with the "first act of immorality," Moore says, alluding to the contested 2000 election, "because it all rots from there. If you allow someone to steal your White House, what else will they do?"

"Mostly, he allows Bush to make himself look ridiculous, not through manipulative editing or sleight of hand, but through Bush's words, gestures and behavior. "I have no problem letting Bush drive the humor," says Moore. "The more I tried doing it — and I did shoot things — I thought, how do you top [the real thing]?" :D :D :D

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
Do all of my posts refer to the tragedies? Yep sure do..... I dont care if Moore preaches from a higher soap box than I dom as I only have this site and havent tried to go any further so I guess I am not that jealous huh?
I am sick of Moore and his holier than us attitude, he is nothing more than a loon who is making monbey from idiots who think he believes what he is saying. Does he give all the profits from his film into the local community he is so concerned about?
Or does he line his pockets with it?
Tell me Mr. Shaman.
I don't need to. (http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-06-20-moore_x.htm)

"Joanne Doroshow has been friends with Moore and his wife, producer Kathleen Glynn, since the mid-1980s. Despite his wealth and notoriety, Moore hasn't changed, she says. "He cannot sit by and let world events go by without responding," says Doroshow, director for the Center for Justice & Democracy public interest group and a Fahrenheit co-producer. "He does what he thinks is right, no matter the consequence."

Moore may spur warm and fuzzy feelings among some, but he draws contempt from others. While wealth from films and books has allowed him to donate substantial sums to charitable and political groups, some question whether his money and celebrity status have transformed him from a champion of the common man into a self-righteous shrew."

You surely do know an awful lot, for not knowing shit.

Originally posted by Travh20
umm, who is stopping them from seeing a movie? I hope this isnt that big made up scandal where moore claimed the government was trying to silence him. what a joke. anyway, that movie is full of shit. I cant believe everyone takes all this micheal moore propapganda with a straight face. like missing this movie will leave us all in the dark.
Not a problem!!

The folks from Canada's "West" will keep you informed (http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/06/22/509164.html)!!!

"It should anger all of us, this Fahrenheit 9/11 film. In fact, Michael Moore's award-winning, irritatingly incisive expose of Bush Junior and his strike-first-and-ask-questions-never bully boys, should leave Calgarians particularly peeved, since it is a celluloid confirmation of betrayal by a president much loved in these parts. How hard it will be for some of us to finally confront the truth. Those who have been made fools.

After all, think back.

When Dubya decided to embark on his misadventure in Iraq, sentiment in this country from coast to coast to coast swung solidly against signing up with the coalition for the killing, cautious about a common cause that was righteous in rhetoric but murky in motives. At the time, precious little skepticism surfaced in Calgary, however."