Memo Offered Justification for Use of Torture (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23373-2004Jun7.html)

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"We'll be looking for witches, as well, in the process!"

Can we just ban this guy? He contributes absolutely nothing to this forum outside of posting links to articles that I think support his views. I am assuming he is not a fan of Bush but since he never sticks around long enough to argue his position like the rest on this forum.

Originally posted by The Republican
Can we just ban this guy? He contributes absolutely nothing to this forum outside of posting links to articles that I think support his views. I am assuming he is not a fan of Bush but since he never sticks around long enough to argue his position like the rest on this forum.
Seems to me this is one of the best articles he has posted of late. Did you even read it?

Oh, and you're right, he doesn't argue his points. But that's no reason to ban him.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Seems to me this is one of the best articles he has posted of late. Did you even read it?

Oh, and you're right, he doesn't argue his points. But that's no reason to ban him.

I have read the article and it is not the article that bothers me. What does is the fact he posts any link that he agrees with and does not say what about it he likes or does not like. He never sticks around to defend his views let alone state them. We can only infer what his views are from the links he posts and never are able to hold a discussion with him. Maybe he is just incapable of forming a cohesive argument to support his views?

Shaman the parrot strikes yet again. Get back in your cage.

Originally posted by The Republican
I have read the article and it is not the article that bothers me. What does is the fact he posts any link that he agrees with and does not say what about it he likes or does not like. He never sticks around to defend his views let alone state them. We can only infer what his views are from the links he posts and never are able to hold a discussion with him. Maybe he is just incapable of forming a cohesive argument to support his views?

Only rarely does Shaman deign to grace us with his opinions. He's just a hit-and-run kind of guy.

Originally posted by The Republican
Can we just ban this guy? He contributes absolutely nothing to this forum outside of posting links to articles that I think support his views. I am assuming he is not a fan of Bush but since he never sticks around long enough to argue his position like the rest on this forum.
oooooooooooooooooooooo....

Great opinion on this article!! ;)

How could I possibly debate against your position???? :@@:

My opinion on the article, well I am in a bad place here. I hold no sympathy for a member of any terror group but it is a borderline call on the law.

If a non military combatant is captured there are no real conventions or laws to govern their treatment.
I guess I am gonna just have to say it, torture is revenge but usually it doesnt get valid results. But also the higher up Al Qaeda members should be treated they wy they treated us and others. So if they are known AL Qaeda and they have no valid info kill em.

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
oooooooooooooooooooooo....

Great opinion on this article!! ;)

How could I possibly debate against your position???? :@@:

Shaman, I have no real problem with what you post (usually), but you didn't ask for an opinion of the article. If you want a debate, start one. We are not here to review articles that you present us, we're here because we like to engage in conversations. Try posting your opinions, and I'll bet you get a better response.

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran

If a non military combatant is captured there are no real conventions or laws to govern their treatment.

I can think of two...common sense, and basic human decency.

But also the higher up Al Qaeda members should be treated they wy they treated us and others. So if they are known AL Qaeda and they have no valid info kill em.

How would you determine that they are "known" Al-Quaida?

What would constitute enough valid information to spare their lives?

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
So if they are known AL Qaeda and they have no valid info kill em.
...after a fair trial, right?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
...after a fair trial, right?
ok, if you say so.
Vile we know alot of the higher ups in Al Qaeda, sorry I have lost alot to these terrorists and their friends I have no feelings for them. Sorry but common sense doesnt even apply to these Known terrorist.
Now as for the Abu Ghraib scandal I think what happened was wrong, and for those not already known to be Al Qaeda or other terror groups then they should be treated appropriately.

I know we will always differ on this and I can only say sorry but I have been slanted against them and that I can not change. I may believe in a divine force but I am not one.

hmm...yes...we should give them a fair trial and then we should execute them...
:lolhit:

Ok just dont let me get near a member of Al Qaeda or the IRG... you be my sane voice and I will just foam at the mouth.

:D

I'm sorry for your loss beirut, but despite your loss and the losses of other innocents, I still think a trial is neccessary and desirable. We have trials not because we think they deserve it, or because we are enlightened people who wish to treat terrorists kindly. We have them to determine guilt not justify our executions.

I understand what you are saying. It is just my opinion not the way I would want the government to run.
I believe in a system of justice but dont really want to see it for these guys but I know we should provide at our expense.
Sorry but I cant forgive and forget.
Thank you for your kindness.
If I run across one of these guys I am coming to Wisconsin so be ready to talk me out of killing them.

:D

Originally posted by Beirut_Veteran
I understand what you are saying. It is just my opinion not the way I would want the government to run.
I believe in a system of justice but dont really want to see it for these guys but I know we should provide at our expense.
Sorry but I cant forgive and forget.
Thank you for your kindness.
If I run across one of these guys I am coming to Wisconsin so be ready to talk me out of killing them.

:D

You're very welcome. I was hoping you weren't going to go all Trav on me and recommend torturing them to death...:D

I can't begin to know what it must have been like to have been attacked by terrorists, but I'll try to talk you out of killing anytime.

I don't want to live in a country that kills people without trial. If it can be them, it can be me.

What part of MI are you from?

You're not a "yooper" are you? :D

Well not originally a yooper but I live in Sault Ste Marie so you can say I am a yooper transplant. :D

I agree with you on a government like that, and I would like to think that I could never take another life, but I am not sure.
So I need a voice of reason to counter the one of hatred that flares up once in awhile.
Dont freak I have never hurt a person in this country and never hurt someone who was not attempting to kill me.
Ok, going back to a good place. :D

I've been to Sault Ste Marie, but not in a long time. My family went through there on a family vacation when I was a teen-ager. I remember we saw the locks...:D

I can see them from my house. I like to watch the ships go by, but I dont really miss being on one.
:D

Originally posted by Mr. Shaman
oooooooooooooooooooooo....

Great opinion on this article!! ;)

How could I possibly debate against your position???? :@@:

Shaman...maybe if you post your opinion I may post mine. But if you insist on being a parrot with nothing to say I am not going to state my opinions on whatever it is you happen to be posting at the moment.

BV - I'm so glad that I've found someone on this forum who I can agree with on nearly every issue -- that NEVER happens! I feel like we're related!

While I agree with Pagan's "trial first" argument, sometimes adrenalin and revenge does take over -- for instance, on September 12, 2001 after losing family and / or friends would you be prepared for trial then??? Not me.

Cricket I agree with you but I will defer to Vile as he has volunteered to keep from jail.
:D


I am unnerved that you agree with me, that rarely happens. I have been married for 24 years and I think my wife and I have agreed like 10 times.

:D

Originally posted by saycricket
While I agree with Pagan's "trial first" argument, sometimes adrenalin and revenge does take over -- for instance, on September 12, 2001 after losing family and / or friends would you be prepared for trial then??? Not me.

That is precisely why a justice system is necessary. So that people can be sentenced in cold blood, by a fair application of the law, and not just lynched by angry mobs !

Judge Roy Bean "try em' and hang em' ". :D

One can stop & visit the Judge Roy Bean exhibit & museum in Texas.

The Hangin' Judge... That museam was actually one of the highlights of my trip across country in 1968........

Anyway I agree that we must have a justice system, but at the same time, if they are shooting at our troops and we dont kill them but capture them. Then I kind of say, lets bring the guilty fool in and give him a fair trial....
Or maybe instead of caprturing them, just shoot em in combat.
Sorry if I have offended someone but remember our justice system let OJ go......

LOL @ OJ!! Can you believe that was 10 years ago??
I do, unfortunately, agree with Astrapol to on the "angry mob/lynching" thing...he is right - technically. But, we are all not technical. Emotions do play a HUGE role in everything we, as humans, do.

BV-usually the wife just agrees with hubby to shut him up. :D Been there, doing that. :) Rest assured, your wife likes to listen to you, hence your disagreements. :D

My wife posts here as well, under the name Swede.

That is precisely why a justice system is necessary. So that people can be sentenced in cold blood, by a fair application of the law, and not just lynched by angry mobs ! --Astrapol

True, I agree.

But... sometimes folks just need killin'.

:D


Yes, I was born and raised in Texas. Why do you ask?