one interview here...
http://prorev.com/ROCKWELLSOLDIERINTV.htm

The intro...
For nearly 12 years, Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey was a hard-core, some say "gung-ho," Marine. For three years he trained fellow Marines in one of the most grueling indoctrination rituals in military life -- Marine boot camp. The Iraqi war changed Massey. The brutality, the sheer carnage of the U.S. invasion, touched his conscience and transformed him forever. He was honorably discharged last December 31 and is now back in his hometown, Waynsville, North Carolina. When I talked with Sergeant Massey last week, he expressed his remorse at the civilian loss of life in incidents in which he himself was involved.

I guess I get to sound callous and cold, but I see one thing in common with all the innocents killed by these marines. It is that they didnt stop at the check points and they didnt stop when confronted with warning shots. I hate that innocents die, but what was not touched on was that at the time he was running these check points we had lost numerous marines to suicide bombers at check points. One of these involved a pregnant women who was made to drive a car with explosives to a check point and then was detonated by remote device.
I am not going to say any of these people deserved to die, but in combat when your enemy uses innocents to hide behind, and wears no uniform then these sensless deaths will occur.
I know that I am the forum bad guy for my views on these topics, but it has happened in every conflict, on all sides.

One of the soldiers I talked to said that he had to fire on so many Iraqis coming into his checkpoint that cars were blocking the road.
Steam coming from the radiators all up and down the road where they shot the engines out. He said that there is no traffic control police in Baghdad. People would come at the check point 50-60 miles an hour passing many signs written in Arabic and English stating (STOP) (Will be fired upon past this point).
I said why, He said he found out that most of the people could not read.

Keepin mind that this same soldier will have ringing in his ears for the rest of his life because one bomber made it through , killing his fellow soldier and blowing him 30 feet from the concussion.

I will not fully support either the iraqis or our army. There needs to be precautions for our soldiers, but many of them think of this as a game with which they abuse their power.

Here is one example:
This is how we deal with looters (http://forum.galeyisrael.com/forum/files/dontloot.wmv)

Originally posted by WindWip
I will not fully support either the iraqis or our army. There needs to be precautions for our soldiers, but many of them think of this as a game with which they abuse their power.

Here is one example:
This is how we deal with looters (http://forum.galeyisrael.com/forum/files/dontloot.wmv)
Well looters are supposed to be shot on site, even in this country it was the norm. Looters are a threat to peace and a threat to property. I might argree that the level of looting should dictate whether they should be shot or not, but that is a hard line to draw. I will assume that you were not alive during the riots in the 60's.
I would say that a harsh response to looting is a good deterent.
Dont want to get shot, dont loot.

what exacty is the point of these type of posts besides to cast the men in a bad light? seriously, what are you trying to acomplish with stories like this?

Every conflict in the last 170 years we have a group of people who rally to destroy the people who have given them their freedom. Well lets just go ahead and knock the Revolutionary War also. I am sick of the bashing of those who SERVE your freedoms. This post is not directed at any one person but if it hits a chord then I have done what I intended.

Here is a returning vet, and he is saying something that I think is very relevent, and missing from the greater debate in our country.

There is a disconnect between the soldiers on the ground and commanding officers. These people are not heartless killers, they are doing what they think is good work, but they are compromising their value's and inflicting wounds that will last for many many years.

AS this guy was saying, there are many who feel this way, but don't have the courage to speak out.

There is also a very big disconnect between the Iraqi's and the American service people. IF it was just this incident, I could see some of the points made here, but it is also the prison abuse, it's how many ordinary iraqi's are being treated, it's the importing of workers to do jobs that Iraqi's are perfectly competent in doing.

And finally there is a disconnect from what's going on with these soldiers and American society at large. What freedoms are we defending? American Idol? The swan? Survivor 32? People are dying every single day, and we're told to shop and consume. At least during the second world war, people participated in the struggle. THey recycled rubber, they reduced their gas and food consumption. Now consume consume consume...it's the american way...

Being critical of the way our government uses it's military is not being ungrateful for freedoms.

The military did not give the women the right to vote, it did not establish a 40 hour work week, it did not bring about the civil rights movement. Freedoms are not just earned with a gun.

Originally posted by Travh20
what exacty is the point of these type of posts besides to cast the men in a bad light? seriously, what are you trying to acomplish with stories like this? travh, why does everything have to be so one sided to you. he's offering a different side......just like you do ! you have that right....let him have his

But alot see the threat, I never liked taking a life but the need was blaring. If you have been attacked at checkpoints three times in a day then you are going to be cautious. I would have told them to put sand bags and m-60's 1/4 mile from the checkpoint. This would block the road and allow a check of each car away from the majority of soldiers. Everyone removed from the car and it searched, search the people, you know like we do to Americans when stopped by the police. If we are commited to control then we have to rule with certainty. If we try to be the friends of the Iraqi people we are only going to be setup for failure.
Yes soldiers are people and we generally hate taking a life, but in war you dont win by taking chances or being lax in your security measures. When a car runs a sign that says to stop then you can fire into the radiator hopefully you wont kill anyone but you MUST consider them hostile.

"You don't win a war by dying for your country; You win a war by making the other SOB die for his country." General Patton

"We sleep safely in our beds, because rough men stand ready in the night to inflict violence on those who would harm us." George Orwell

es, Good and timely quotes!

B.V., I agree. All the information I have is the returning vets that I talk to. They told me of a great relationship with the average Iraqi. Everything from bartering to great laughs on both sides.

The general outcome of radiators being shot out was no one harmed.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
es, Good and timely quotes!


I used Pattons quote on a site I put up after 9/11, Patton would have slapped the terrorist for thinking that suicide attacks were a way to win anything. One of the greatest tacticians that the world has ever seen, George S. Patton.

Patton was great. Lots of character. A true personality - unlike some of the stars (retired and otherwise) gracing the tube on countless news shows. They're all pretty bland.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
One of the soldiers I talked to said that he had to fire on so many Iraqis coming into his checkpoint that cars were blocking the road.
Steam coming from the radiators all up and down the road where they shot the engines out. He said that there is no traffic control police in Baghdad. People would come at the check point 50-60 miles an hour passing many signs written in Arabic and English stating (STOP) (Will be fired upon past this point).
I said why, He said he found out that most of the people could not read.

Keepin mind that this same soldier will have ringing in his ears for the rest of his life because one bomber made it through , killing his fellow soldier and blowing him 30 feet from the concussion.


they cant read?
they must have some traffic signs in iraqi and they must know what they say
were they in english?
of course bush fired the gay arabic translators,maybe the sign could only be in english
at least were a moral country

No harmony, one of the guys I work with is a translator and made the signs at their check point in English and Arabic. Even several signs in different dialects. The signs like "Stop here or you will be fired upon" are not typical traffic signs.

Some even asked him why people did not stop when when they saw shot up vehicles. His reply was that we did not realize that these people are use to seeing shot up vehicles everyday. War zone.

Saddam did not worry much about education in the southern region. Remember educated people are a threat to a dictator.