Many people reject any belief in the supernatural.
What are your views?
Have you had any experiences with the supernatural that you would like to share?

I like to keep an open mind on these topics, even though that the damned logical side of me will have none of it. But the side I call the passionate side loves the idea of something other than just this dull boring life.
I have had experiences that some would call supernatural but yet I work very hard to disprove. I now live in a three story house built in 1891 and have many strange things happen, doors opening with alot of force, I always check the air flow, angle of the floor(old house arent level) and only one has no logical explanation that I have found.
I guess I am hoping still.

People tend to deny things they are afraid of...They think it wont affect them if they dont admit its there.........

I've also noticed people laugh @ those things also when they are afraid,etc......

I believe in the supernatural. I believe in ghosts and magic and various other things. Other than some particularly bad/strange dreams, I havent really experienced the supernatural.

I find supernatural to be an empty word. If ghosts or what have you exist then surely they are natural - i.e. a part of nature.

Semantics aside, I can't bring myself to believe in this stuff anymore. If ghosts and magic and so on were real we'd know it because the world would be more like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars than boring old planet Earth. All murders, suicides and mysterious deaths would be solved because the victims would just tell us. Haiti would be the world superpower with its voodoo and spells, rather than America with its plain-old boring military might and technical advancement.

But, I am told, it doesn't work like that; though quite how 'it' does work I'm yet to be told or shown.

People often get frustrated with non-believers such as me because we "know it all" and think "there's nothing more than science". This is really quite ironic. It is believers who enthusiastically claim specific and detailed answers - ghosts, telepathy, magic, foresight - rather than simply accepting the strange, mysterious and inexplicable experience of being alive.

I find supernatural to be an empty word. If ghosts or what have you exist then surely they are natural - i.e. a part of nature.
I guess that does make more sense....
Semantics aside, I can't bring myself to believe in this stuff anymore. If ghosts and magic and so on were real we'd know it because the world would be more like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars than boring old planet Earth. All murders, suicides and mysterious deaths would be solved because the victims would just tell us. Haiti would be the world superpower with its voodoo and spells, rather than America with its plain-old boring military might and technical advancement.
Not neccasarily. LOR and Star Wars are high fantasy. They contian things that real world magic-users couldnt possibly accomplish. Also, from what I know, ghosts are exceedingly rare and dont tend to respond to people in any intelligable way.
But, I am told, it doesn't work like that; though quite how 'it' does work I'm yet to be told or shown.
I've had the same conversation with another athiest and I found it difficult defining how magic works. It has to do with manifesting your will. Stacking the deck in your favor and increasing the likelyhood of a chosen outcome.

People often get frustrated with non-believers such as me because we "know it all" and think "there's nothing more than science". This is really quite ironic. It is believers who enthusiastically claim specific and detailed answers - ghosts, telepathy, magic, foresight - rather than simply accepting the strange, mysterious and inexplicable experience of being alive.
I understand that the supernatural is not something thats easy to believe in. Even I have to sometimes ask the question "Where is the evidence?". If people dont want to believe until they are presented with undenyable proof, thats perfectly fine with me and I respect them for it. Unlike a Christian, I dont get bent out of shape and start damning people to Hell when they choose to have different beliefs than mine own.

I've had the same conversation with another athiest and I found it difficult defining how magic works. It has to do with manifesting your will. Stacking the deck in your favor and increasing the likelyhood of a chosen outcome.

I understand that the supernatural is not something thats easy to believe in. Even I have to sometimes ask the question "Where is the evidence?".There are some who argue there is no distinction between magic and unrecognisably advanced science and technology. So take a television, or even just a glass mirror, and show it to an Amazonian tribesman and he might declare it magical. He'd have a point.

So for me magic would not be so much evidenced or proven as demonstrated and used. If we tell the tribesman we have something magical that lets him see into another world (mirror or TV) he'd be gobsmacked because it works just like we say. Yet the claims of psychics and mystics just never seem to hold up. Rather than being gobsmacked by some impressive feat we seem to end up just listening to dreary explanations about how "it doesn't work like that" and "you have to open your mind" or The_Dude's above comment that "you're scared to believe it" etc.

I have an open mind on it - one tthing that human experience over the ages proves is that there is more to life than meets the eye. It's not possible to know exactly what that is - if it was possible then it would meet the eye.

About 10 years ago a person I talked to happened to have some so called 'psychic abilities'. They told me some interesting stuff, one was that there were "spirits" attached to me that took an interest in me. One she said was a relation of my grandmother that drowned at a young age & was living vicariously through me. I thought that strange - anyway later on I asked my relatives if anybody had drowned and sure enough in about 1915 or something like that, my grandmothers brother had drowned at age 16 in the river. Weird huh?

That event doesn't make me want to visit psychics or anything like that - I tend to believe that not much good can come from that type of input. It's like seeking an easy path or getting something for free. I tend to have a respect for the potential validity of that kind of stuff, but I have no interest in investigating it. My feeling is ultimately it would be a negative to do so.

One thing that had a somewhat significant impact on my thinking when I was younger was quantum physics strangely enough. The concept that matter is energy and visa versa, ie light acts like matter & a wave. By viewing matter as energy with no distinct boundaries except those boundaries that our brain percieves then it's easy to conclude that things are an illusion with no actual boundaries at all. The energy in our body maybe in a tree next week. Then when looking at energy as a pattern, just like the weather - it's an easy step to see how the smallest thing can impact something else that seems totally unconnected (like the butterfly wings in China impacting the weather in New York..). Thinking about this stuff (with often some LSD thrown in) really had me mentally shaky for a while as it shakes the edifice so to speak. I rarely think it about anymore in depth, but it impacted how I look at life.

I tend to believe in "supernatural" occurences simply because my family and I have had some odd occurences happen to us at various times.

What these things were, I can't and won't presume to say. But they could not be explained away by any rational thought process.

I've found that people who've had such things happen to them personally tend to be more aware of the fact that there might be something going on that can't be "explained" ....and those that haven't tend to dismiss it....not always tho.

There definitely needs to be more hard research done on the paranormal and I'm glad it's finally getting more of that by open-minded yet hardheaded researchers.

But they could not be explained away by any rational thought process.Not a great deal in this wierd and wonderful life can be explained. That includes the origin of life itself, the nature of consciousness and why Titanic won 11 academy awards. What I don't get is why people jump so quickly to conclude "ghost" or "telepathy" or whatever with surprising certainty, deeming anyone who questions this as closed-minded.

That is very true---just a few short hundred years ago, electricity was considered a phenomenon that only the gods understood and/or used.
Now, we understand a bit more about it---not much, tho!

There could very well be a natural cause for so-called "unnatural" ocurrences--we are just simply unaware or ignorant of exactly what it is.

Which is why I most enjoy the "ghost" shows (like "Ghost Hunters" on the Sci-fi channel) whose researchers set out to debunk first and foremost, not blindly accept the idea that there's a haunting of some sort going on.

It's a good show and you might enjoy it if you can see it . :)

. Also, from what I know, ghosts are exceedingly rare and dont tend to respond to people in any intelligable way.



According to paranormal researchers, there are possibly 3 types of "Hauntings" by "entities"----

Poltergeist--that is, a destructive or playful entity that causes damage to people and/or items


Residual---an entity that replays an event from life over and over, seemingly without any kind of thought


Intelligent---wherein the entity makes some attempt to contact the living.


This is a fascinating topic that I could spend the rest of my life researching.

There could very well be a natural cause for so-called "unnatural" ocurrences--we are just simply unaware or ignorant of exactly what it is.Yes. At the risk of getting hung up on semantics, a thing kind of becomes or 'feels' natural by way of being explained.

My point is that when I hear of anecdotes such as Drew's being cited in terms of the limitations of current knowledge and understanding I think "but that's not nearly as mysterious or inexplicable as simply being alive or the vastness of the universe or the way music can touch us." I know I'm being a little pedantic here because of course I can get as freaked as anyone when something eerie or surprising happens - but it is worth stepping back to consider such events in the context of the general mysteries of existance. They suddenly become less 'impressive'.

Which is why I most enjoy the "ghost" shows (like "Ghost Hunters" on the Sci-fi channel) whose researchers set out to debunk first and foremost, not blindly accept the idea that there's a haunting of some sort going on.

It's a good show and you might enjoy it if you can see it . :)heh - it seems to me there's been a mini-backlash of that sort of scepticism in the uk the past year or so. Quite refreshing after a long phase of the media cheering every latest new-age whimsy. I'll look out for that one.

It happened long time ago, almost 28 years ago, my wife was expecting a baby, and this lady and her husband came home, and she started observing my wife in some odd way and said, "I could be wrong, but I believe you will have twins, 'cause I see two entities (her way of saying spirits) going in and out of your body, it was sometime around her 3rd month of pregnancy, and we had not visited the doctor yet. We did visit him 2 or 3 weeks later, and he said, I think you may have twins, but he wasn't sure, he wasn't sure if he heard one or two heart beats. Visiting doctors in my town (city) isn't like it happens here, with all these machines they have.
Anyway, she also said that they were going a boy and a girl... We never wanted to know from our doctor the sex of our babies, but she said and we believed her. The days prior to the day when they were born, my mother called the lady 'cause my wife wasn't feeling good, and it was close to the 7th month, and asked her for prayers, the lady then said; By the way Isa, they will be boys instead. I came back home from a trip the day she went into labor, and from outside the door where they took my wife in I heard the cry of the first baby, and told my mother, "I wonder who was first, the boy or the girl?", my mother said, "Oh I forgot to tell you guys, but Pola (the lady's name) said that they are boys, and at that very moment the doctor came out that door and asked for the father, I was the only man there at that moment so he congratulated me and said, "you have two fine boys".
I've tried to make it a short story, but there were many more details, that left no doubts as to what happened during all those 7 months (my babies didn't make it to 9 months). We were also told by this same lady, that my wife was pregnant within days when that took place, and of course, my wife and I simply stared at each other faces, wondering if she was really pregnant... of course the test proved her right. My boys are 27 years old now. Gifted people can tell us many things we can't explain, in my family I have a gifted sister, also my wife has sometimes the premonition gift through dreams, my daughter is also gifted. As for me, I am as deaf and blind as a stone, but had my own personal experiences in the year 2000.

Thats a very interesting story, Spririt.:thumbs:

According to paranormal researchers, there are possibly 3 types of "Hauntings" by "entities"----

Poltergeist--that is, a destructive or playful entity that causes damage to people and/or items


Residual---an entity that replays an event from life over and over, seemingly without any kind of thought


Intelligent---wherein the entity makes some attempt to contact the living.


This is a fascinating topic that I could spend the rest of my life researching.
Is anyone familiar with the paranormal investigation team known as TAPS? They have a very scientific approach and have compiled video and audio evidence of what I consider to be "ghosts"

Is anyone familiar with the paranormal investigation team known as TAPS? They have a very scientific approach and have compiled video and audio evidence of what I consider to be "ghosts"

Yes, my favorite show!
Too many dang commercials tho, on the Sci-fii channel--drives me insane.

This is the show I was talking with Blob about earlier on this thread. ("Ghost Hunters")

Highly recommended--very interesting stuff and I like the way they set out to refute, not just simply accept any old tale with no proof of evidence.

What are your views?
I don't believe in anything in the umbrella of "supernatural." But of course, you probably already knew that.

Everything Supernatural is like Religion, no one agrees, there are those who won't believe anyone's story, because this has to happen on the personal level. And then there are those who even though they do have experiences still remain incredulous... My family and I have had lots of experiences, but it remains among us only, there is no point in telling since we would just get a ... Yeah right!

it's best to have an open mind on all things. As a human race we always seem to want certainty (well at least post scientific method we do) when in fact there is no certainty in much at all. The only thing that is certain is nothing is certain.

it's best to have an open mind on all things.
One of my life's philosophies, as I force myself to be open to everyone's ideas and views. Religious beliefs/beliefs in the supernatural are always the most interesting to learn about, and while none have yet to convince me of anything, the attempts to explain our existence, justify our actions, and bring peace to ourselves as a people on the part of religion is truly amazing.

If TAPS is scientific, I fear what the "unscientific" ones do... They blatantly disregard evidence collection, use crappy equipment, do not make sure they perform closed experiments, etc. The list of their BS(Bad Science) could go on forever. Not just that, but the guys are complete idiots, completely unable to connect the dots and have probably never even heard of inductive reasoning. That might hamper their ability to collect good evidence...

I don't know....seems to me that the TAPS guys use the best equipment available--infrared, EMP readers, etc.

I realize they could do a better job in doing closed experiments, but when you're dealing with a place the size of a battleship, or a large house, this can be difficult.

Also good possibilities for hoaxers, sad to say, like the one episode where they went to the Queen Mary cruise ship and a prankster pulled the bedcovers down, trying to make it look like a "ha'nt" did it.

This is a field that is still in its infancy , and sadly hampered by hoaxers too, which makes it even more difficult.

By the way, anyone see the episode where they went to the lighthouse in Florida?
Wow--incredible stuff...or the one at the old hotel in Arkansas, where they picked up the full-fledged apparition of a Civil-War -looking guy on infrared.

Absolutely astounding, IMO. If THAT was a hoax, it was very very good.

I don't believe in anything in the umbrella of "supernatural." But of course, you probably already knew that.
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Wikipedia-"The supernatural refers to forces and phenomena which are beyond ordinary scientific or any other type of measurement."

Considering the above definition for a moment, I would conclude that proof of something (if it exists) merely awaits the invention of scientific equipment capable of measurements that we are incapable of today.
I suppose that at that moment the supernatural would become the natural.

This, invention process, we speak of, has removed the historical supernatural view from many things that we view as natural today.
Until that time arrives, I can see where one would be reserved in giving a positive or negative opinion.

Considering the above definition for a moment.....
I always enjoy reading your posts Dan, and I understand your argument about the natural versus the supernatural. But when I made the comment about my disbelief in such things, I was aiming at superstitious and religious beliefs. Examples include lofty ideas of angels/demons, an afterlife, and miracles.

it's best to have an open mind on all things. As a human race we always seem to want certainty (well at least post scientific method we do) when in fact there is no certainty in much at all. The only thing that is certain is nothing is certain.heh - and this is precisely what I would charge at those who do believe in such things. It is believers in the supernatural who claim with certainty this or that happened, and ghosts or telepathy are the explanation for whatever it was. It is also they who are closed-minded, at least by my definition of "unwilling to consider they may be wrong."

I always enjoy reading your posts Dan, and I understand your argument about the natural versus the supernatural. But when I made the comment about my disbelief in such things, I was aiming at superstitious and religious beliefs. Examples include lofty ideas of angels/demons, an afterlife, and miracles.Yes, this is why we have to make sure we know what someone means by 'supernatural'. If it means simply the inexplicable (like a tribesman being shown a tv) then I believe in it. However, if it means specific claims such as "ghosts" then I am very sceptical. To go from, say, hearing a noise or seeing a shape, to "humans have an impermeable soul that survives death and lingers on Earth causing the occasional confusing noise or vision" is just far too much of a jump for me. The evidence simply does not match the detail, certainty and dramatic ramifications of the claim.

I always enjoy reading your posts Dan, and I understand your argument about the natural versus the supernatural. But when I made the comment about my disbelief in such things, I was aiming at superstitious and religious beliefs. Examples include lofty ideas of angels/demons, an afterlife, and miracles.
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Ah-yes, the things that go bump in the night.
People have taken the human imagination and made quite a run with it.
All views can not be correct, or can they be partially correct?
Say, for a moment, that different views are bits and pieces of a reality that is beyond our present capabilities of recognition. This reality would exist, but our interpretation of such being totally wrong. Hence the superstition and religious mumbo-jumbo. An attempt to explain without complete knowledge.

As an example, the ghost thingy. A person has a glimpse of a shadowy figure. Immediately some bring on the dead-persons-spirit theory that is at unrest, haunting, etc. An entire belief system is built on such thoughts and beliefs.
Then one day scientific evidence comes about that proves that a fold in time was merely revealing an unclear picture of another occurrence. The event happened, yet the original interpretation was completely wrong. Imagination at work. The seeking of answers by the uninformed human mind.

It could be that preposterous claims are valuable by stimulating those of an inquisitive nature to research the truth.

I don't know....seems to me that the TAPS guys use the best equipment available--infrared, EMP readers, etc.

By the way, anyone see the episode where they went to the lighthouse in Florida?
Wow--incredible stuff...or the one at the old hotel in Arkansas, where they picked up the full-fledged apparition of a Civil-War -looking guy on infrared.

Absolutely astounding, IMO. If THAT was a hoax, it was very very good.
That Lighthouse episode was awsome! Did you see the one in the hotel episode where The Shining was filmed? Awsome stuff!

Yes I did--rather bizarre----that water glass that broke by Jason's bedside--what the heck was THAT?


Note to TAPS fans:

Tomorrow night, a 4 hour "Ghost Hunters" marathon!

Be there.....