I just viewed the photos of the prisoners in Iraq. I can not believe that Americans can be so cruel. I am ashamed to say I live in America with people that treat others like they do. Those soldiers were doing what the Americans soldiers are told to do by our government. Fight! Most of them probably do not want to be in the situation they are in either. The two women that are in the photos are useless. As women, we should hold a higher standard than most. We are trained as children to be good people, good mothers, leaders in our community and to set a good standard for ourselves. Shame on you all, shame on America for doing such a horrible thing. I know some people will say they treated our soldiers badly, I am sure they have. But how many people in those photos did the bad things to our soldiers? Probably none of them. Come'on America don't lower your standards to the standards of other countries. We are the richest, smartest, happiest nation in the world. America is a place where "everyone" wants to live. I hope my children never see those photos.

I just read your statement about the abuse in prison. Lets say I dont think that was wrong or right. These prisoners were the ones shooting from mosques, trying to kill americans, suicide bombers and have vauable info. I dont hear anyone complainng about the four contractors burned, and hung from a bridge! That is cruel and inhumane. I dont hear anyone talking about rape, and killing from Saddam. I dont hear how Radical Muslims are abusing American POW'S and I dont hear how American troops are doing a wonderful job.
Lets say that those photos are old and are recently brought up. Those troops are getting info from the prisoners. The same prisoners if we let go will kill and harm our troops. We need to stand our ground. The media is showing this and that and how cruel America is. They dont show how Muslims are treating their own society and killing innocent people, mass graves, rape and killing one another over their beliefs. Thats inhumane. God Bless our troops and r.i.p to all those troops that died for our country and keeping us safe!

this is the latest in a long linme of things used to try and bring the iraq mission to an end. the same people who cry for the iraqis now are the ones who were ready to leave them out to dry and "contain" saddam. they dont care about the iraqis, or we would have heard calls to get rid of saddam based on the level of suffering they endured under him. they care about destroying george bush. this is the best thing they have seen t achieve that goal so far. the poeple that did this should fry, as it looks bad for the US Army and the USA. the amount of "outrage" has reached absurd levels though. move on.

I am appauled by the torture and murder of Iraqis at the hands of US Military prison gaurds but, I am not surprised. The fact is, murders and rapes are an everyday occurance in US prisons. Female prisoners are routinely raped by male prison gaurds, vulnerable male prisoners are routinely placed in or near cells in which prisoners are known to have assaulted, raped or murdered other prisoners and, everyone is familiar with the incidents in California in which prisoners were shot and killed by prison gaurds while engaging in pre-arranged gladiator-style fighting matches. Many of the people working in Iraq have similar jobs in the US. If we are unable or unwilling to stop them from commiting atrocities in our own prisons, why should we expect them to behave differently in a far-away country where every American is, essentially, above the law?
Lastly, the tragedy of this is, most of the Iraqis subjected to inhumane treatment were not members of the armed resistance. It is my understanding that these Iraqis were picked up during mass arrests. Now, because of this incident, not only will the US have to contend with Al-Quaeda but Arab and Muslim populations, in general. As powerful as we are, the US can ill-afford to make enemies of nearly two billion of the worlds population.

Originally posted by carly92959
Come'on America don't lower your standards to the standards of other countries. We are the richest, smartest, happiest nation in the world. America is a place where "everyone" wants to live. I hope my children never see those photos.

Wake up. American are not better than other people. There are bad people everywhere, and wartime is a time when atrocities occur. The "good america vs evil terrorist" thing is pure propaganda.

Don't get me wrong : I agree that most american are good people and that they never wanted this to happen. But this is true from any country ! The fact is that if you let people running a prison without proper control, you will get this kind of situation.

One thing is posituve though : the way the USA has reacted to this scandal is exemplary : immediate and massive media coverage, highest level officials questioned. This is something you can be proud of at least. I would be so pleased to see my country's leader responding of the crimes of french soldiers from the past decade, or at least the media being so harsh on them !

carly,

and exactly what methodology do you use to make the declaration that these iraqi prisoners did nothing?

and these women that are in a war zone are useless why? because carly in chattanooga declared them so?

this is war. if we were as "horrible" as you say, we wouldn't photographing their genitals. we would be mutilating them.

grow up

tgnc
chicago

McClellan, white house press secretary, hinted today that the white house may suppress the rest of the photos and videos from the public and only allow a few select congressmen access to them.

To start with, this is Cheney talking -- he held bush's hand again today when he met with RUmsfeld at the pentagon. Can't bush do anything on his own?

And it's a huge mistake -- for a couple of reasons. It will surely look like a cover up and complicity on the part of the white house and it may be too late -- looks like the horses are out of the barn already and they ain't comin' back. My understanding is these photos were burned to cd many times and have been traded and swapped all around the world. Dunno, but that's the story goin' around.

Also, if they try to supress, Lindsay Graham and Carl Levin will explode. They made it quite clear they want it all out there.
And speaking of Graham, he is one hell of an speaker. Geeesh, I watched him on MTP and he can come across with clarity and authority. My kinda guy even if he is a winger.

Dop

Carly: Americans are no better than any other people. what exactly diffrentiates us from other people? although I agree with you that what happened was terrible, it's not becasue it was Americans committing the crime, it is becasue human beings were being tortured needlessly.
bigboy: if you find what some of the Iraqis are doing to U.S. soldiers so terrible, don't turn around and do the same thing to them. acrions speak louder than words, and no matter what ideals we preach, what we do is what matters in the end.
Trav: do you honestly think what they did was excusable? a day or two ago you were ranting about how disgusting it is, now you seem to have decided that i's not so bad. why would people who think that torturing Iraqis is wrong have anything against them? get your facts straight.

Latest update on the new photos. Apparently the Wash Post gave them to the Pentagon at the pentagon's request who told the Wash Post they (pentagon) would release them. WaPo took the pentagon's word for it -- fools LMAO -- and now the pentagon may not show them at all.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the original source of the photos to the WaPo (foshoflash) is telling WaPo that if the pentagon doesn't release them soon, then WaPo had better release them or apparently they (foshoflash) will release them.

It looks like 3 levels of backroom deals and black mail.

BWAhahahahahahah ... ya can't make this stuff up. HBO here we come.

I figure Tonya Harding will play the woman guard Ms. England in the movie.

Dop

i love it when people like whammyboy tell others to "get their facts straight".

whammy, if you have possess all the facts, please share them. we will neve get it right until you bequeath us a bit of your vast reservoir.

tgnc (transgendered neo-con)

Originally posted by astrapol2
Wake up. American are not better than other people. There are bad people everywhere, and wartime is a time when atrocities occur. The "good america vs evil terrorist" thing is pure propaganda.

Don't get me wrong : I agree that most american are good people and that they never wanted this to happen. But this is true from any country ! The fact is that if you let people running a prison without proper control, you will get this kind of situation.

One thing is posituve though : the way the USA has reacted to this scandal is exemplary : immediate and massive media coverage, highest level officials questioned. This is something you can be proud of at least. I would be so pleased to see my country's leader responding of the crimes of french soldiers from the past decade, or at least the media being so harsh on them !

Good post by Astropol - he raises some important points, especially the bit about if you put 20 - 24 year olds in charge of a prison and don't tell them what to do - then you are going to have some problems when they start going a bit wild.

The high attention the issue gets says mucho about America.

i just think it's so ironic that all this was happening in the same prison where saddam used to torture people. certianly says something.

Double post -- no text -- sorry

Dop

maybe the place has a curse that makes people go mad and do strange things.

I would have loved for Rummy to use that line as a reason in front of the Senate.

Originally posted by tgnc
carly,

this is war. if we were as "horrible" as you say, we wouldn't photographing their genitals. we would be mutilating them.

grow up

tgnc
chicago

Can you be any more of an idiot?

Re-Read something I said in a post I made

We have yet to see all the video, and images of the torture the American soldiers have inflected upon the Iraqi POW’s. Rumsfield, said that the images and video that have not been released is way worse then what the American public has seen. So the anger and frustration most Americans have now, will only get worse. Let alone the Iraqi’s...

The Arab world will not take this lightly. Our name is ruined word wide and especially in the Arab world. Many people have said it will take 30 years for them to forgive us. The terrorists will use these pictures for recruiting, and to fuel even more hatred for America. To think this Iraq war is indeed stopping terrorism is wrong, for this is the hugest mistake we have made in Iraq so far. This will lead to hatred and disgust for all Americans for years to come. The terrorists will now stop at nothing to go after America. To put it in one word we are doomed.

Now we go into the torture aspect. Our soldiers hold them on leashes, and all other torturous things we don’t know about (Bush keeping them from us!). That will make the Arab World, believe that all Americans think Arabs are no better then dogs.

Again, Rumsfield said that they have video and pictures that are FAR worse then what America sees. That is of real torture, and the images and video we see are “nothing to what is out there. Iraqi's POW's are being attacked by dogs, and being beaten as shown with pictures that have just been released. This isn't even the half of it, let alone the worst...since MOST of the HORRIBLE stuff hasn't been released.

Many soldiers are doing this, and it is far spread and happening all over. Seriously, don't be blind.


Stop being an idiot and re-read the links I ALREADY posted:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3689129.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3689371.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3696391.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3695897.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3683067.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3696351.stm

dont forget these prisoners are the worst of the worst, IED planters, snipers, killers. these guards didnt go into a grade school and start doing this stuff. I am not condoning it, but it has to be looked at in the proper context. these prisoners are fanatical islamics. they dont fear death, the only thing they fear is shame and dishonor. how do you get someone who does not fear death to talk? if all they fear is being embarrased and humiliated then thats what you got to go on. it seems the left has gone off with both emotional barrells, and refuses to even look at this from any other angle. it was wrong, but not the end of the world.

Where are you getting your info from? - these prisoners are not fanatical islamists (those go to camp x-ray and are never seen again). Almost all prisoners end up being released (after the customary naked walk on a leash, panties on the head and a stiff beating of course)

I do not see the problem,I mean ......................We are the worlds Police........If we do not stand up......But we do which is more
than any other so called country who keeps tripping over there own feet.We have to even teach them to eat.But we have 50
States and to to say we do not know what were doing is to say we do not believe in our self.

Yeah - but in that case, you may as well say it's ok for police to shoot and rob people because the criminal do it.

Originally posted by WorldwideMason
I do not see the problem,I mean ......................We are the worlds Police........If we do not stand up......But we do which is more
than any other so called country who keeps tripping over there own feet.We have to even teach them to eat.But we have 50
States and to to say we do not know what were doing is to say we do not believe in our self.

ummmmmmm...............:confused:

*lol*

Originally posted by WorldwideMason
I do not see the problem,I mean ......................We are the worlds Police........If we do not stand up......But we do which is more
than any other so called country who keeps tripping over there own feet.

Huh?

We have to even teach them to eat.

We have to teach Iraqi's how to eat?

But we have 50
States and to to say we do not know what were doing is to say we do not believe in our self.

Just because we sometimes know what to do for ourselves, doesn't give us the right to tell the rest of the world how to govern themselves.

Originally posted by WorldwideMason
.But we have 50 States and to to say we do not know what were doing is to say we do not believe in our self.

So if someone completely screws up we should ignore it because it might hurt the country's self-esteem? :confused: I hold people (and countries) that realize and fix their mistakes in higher esteem than those that stick their head in the sand, afraid of what they might see.

are you referencing the transgendered neo-con (tgnc) when you used the term idiot? that hurt. i may not sleep a wink tonight. hey, that's sleep deprivation. are you attempting to torture me?

i don't know what these prisoners are bitching about. some of the best times in my life were when i had underwear on my head and a leash around my neck.

as a transgendered person(s), it gets complicated. but usually my guy side wears the panties on the head and leads my chick side around with the leash.

let's not just teach the iraqi's to eat - let's teach them to eat each other.

anyone got a good recipe for iraqi tenderloin?

tgnc

Originally posted by tgnc
let's not just teach the iraqi's to eat - let's teach them to eat each other.

anyone got a good recipe for iraqi tenderloin?

tgnc
That joke was in poor taste. Very poor taste.

Ah, but it was funny!

i don't know what these prisoners are bitching about. some of the best times in my life were when i had underwear on my head and a leash around my neck.
Just because you're a sadist masochist doesn't mean everybody else is too. Personally, I'm just a sadist. Which sets me apart from most Americans who are both.

lib4life

are you calling the transgendered neo-con and idiot? if you are, which part of me? chick half or man half? we get very confused

tgnc