Check out the stanford Prison Experiment. It was done about 30 years ago and is a very telling comparison to what is happening in Iraqi prisons right now.

http://www.prisonexp.org/

I think many of the people who have been caught on film, are probably very decent people, but there are psychological situations that few of us can avoid.

People are more predictable then we want to believe. These circumstances are no different, change the players and you'll see the same thing happen.

Interesting study - but I wonder how valid it is, especially as the guards had no training nor any rules. This is not the case with the US army.

that was a really interesting studay, but also frightening.
Drew: U.S, soldiers are trained, but not to run prisons.

Should a person have common sense and good judgement it would seem that it would be applied in any given situation

Originally posted by WhammyBar
Drew: U.S, soldiers are trained, but not to run prisons.

Why not?

If they are running a prison they need to be trained for it.

Beyond that - you don't need training to know what is right or wrong in these instances.

I think the ones running the prison were Military Police. I would assume they'd be trained in how to guard prisoners. Of course I would also assume they'd be trained in not stacking naked Iraqis in a pyramid, so obviously there are limits to assumptions.

Originally posted by DrewM
Why not?

If they are running a prison they need to be trained for it.

Beyond that - you don't need training to know what is right or wrong in these instances.


I was readong the Times this morning, and the front page article said that the unit of soldiers running the prison were reserves that were supposed to have been trained to runj prisons, but hadn't been. I'm not defending them, I'm saying it's not just a prblem with individuals, but within the structure of the system also.

Whammy -- you are right on. If the soldiers that commited the acts must pay their dues, so should their commanders -- all the way to the top. I've been arguing the fact that Pepper has brought up...when do you snap after all they've been through? Some have been stationed over there since the beginning! They've witnessed car bombs, militia attacks, friends dying beside them, corpse dragging, etc. etc. etc. When do you lose it?

I think knowing right from wrong isn't the question...I'm sure they all DO know right from wrong. I think the question is "how much violence, danger, fear, etc. can a human being take before he/she falls off the deep end?"

And several of those soldiers have denied having any training in running a prision especially where there are over 900 prisioners and approximately 5-6 guards! ::shaking head::

Obviously here the problem is much broader that just a few individuals behaving badly.
The fact that they know right from wrong is irrelevant : there should be some precise rules and controls precisely so that the way guards behave is not let to their own appreciation of right and wrong but to precise standards of human right and safety rules. Either these rules and standards did not exist, either they were broken due to bad management, or even worse - this was an intentional policy. Anyway, the guards are not the only responsible.