Analysis: US fails to placate Arabs


By Paul Wood
BBC Middle East correspondent

There is no sign that President Bush has been able to undo the damage caused by the photographs of Iraqi prisoners being humiliated by the very troops sent to liberate them.

Audiences across the Arab world watched Bush on TV

Looking at the front pages in Cairo this morning, President Bush might be forgiven for feeling he might as well not have bothered going on television to try to woo Arab opinion.

The problem for the Americans is that no-one in the Arab world believes these are isolated incidents; everyone expects far worse yet to come.

So al-Wafd, an opposition newspaper in Egypt, shows what are described as photographs of American soldiers shooting civilians from a helicopter in Iraq - a story with unhelpful echoes of Vietnam.


Mass rape of women by Americans, disgrace for the Arabs
Cairo newspaper headline

Al-Ahrar, another Egyptian newspaper, leads with the slightly incredible tale that the military authorities in Baghdad are subcontracting the running of prisons to an American security company well known, the paper says, for making money off drugs and kidnapping girls for prostitution.

US military intelligence needs someone to do its dirty work in Iraq, the paper says.

The headline in another newspaper reads simply "Mass rape of women by Americans, disgrace for the Arabs".

The newspapers here in Cairo also report that the Arab street is boiling and show a picture of an old woman praying in the street for the defeat of the Americans in Iraq.

No apology

This is what people are reading and hearing across the Arab world this morning and it is already drowning out what President Bush has to say.


The only thing President Bush could have done to satisfy them was to announce a complete and immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq

The reaction on the Arab satellite channels and in the Arab street was little different - President Bush's performance was not seen as convincing.

Mr Bush did call what happened in Abu Ghraib abhorrent.

But the people we spoke to faulted the US president for not seeming angry enough and for not apologising.

Tough sell

I watched the broadcast with a middle-class Egyptian family.

They listened as Mr Bush said that in democracies people made mistakes, but the important thing was to face up to those mistakes and correct them.

The pictures were seen worldwide (AP Photo/Courtesy The New Yorker)

In common with most people in the region though, the family I was with saw the Abu Ghraib photographs not as an aberration, but as part of a systematic pattern of abuses, the true face of the occupation.

The only thing President Bush could have done to satisfy them was to announce a complete and immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

The commentary on al-Arabiya, one of the two stations to interview the president, was sceptical.

Arab satellite channels like al-Arabiya have been criticised by the US-led coalition, accused of hostile inflammatory and inaccurate reporting.

Now those channels feel vindicated and also believe there are many new allegations of abuse yet to come out.

This was always going to be a tough sell for President Bush.

People in the Arab world are still angry. They are cynical about American motives and disbelieving of the US president.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3689477.stm

Well when you have an Arab media that does not show their people exactly what the President is doing and what is going on in terms of onvestigations and discipline I am not surprised.

It's not suprising - The Bush camp have shown themself to be so damn arrogant - they don't bother to actually stop and think about the cultural differences between Arabs and Westerners. If they did have such an adviser on staff then the only conclusion is they asked the advisor to tell them how to phrase the message to piss them off the most effectively.

I know Trav et al will defend Bush to the end, even if he slit his grandmothers throat they'd find a reason why it was justified. I defend Bush where appropriate - but come on, political views aside - this guy is a total incompetant. His politics and views may well be correct in many instances - but his execution of it has reached the point of no return. I am totally dissapointed in that guy.

Sad though it is - because I don't care for Kerry's broader politics much, he's the only alternative right now.

Think of the America of WWII - the way America has conducted itself in the past and look now - Bush is flushing American honor and pride down the shitter as fast as humanly possible.

Originally posted by The Republican
Well when you have an Arab media that does not show their people exactly what the President is doing and what is going on in terms of onvestigations and discipline I am not surprised.

Yes, but the Arabs think this, and I some-what do, not that extreme though. But, no matter what, they think this, and we need to get the UN into Iraq.

Do you know that Rumsfield is being tried for this? Seems your Administration has some explaining to do. With Colin Powell giving Rumsfield these documents all the way back in December and Rumsfield ignoring them and just brushing them off.

Also, we are only seeing the surface of this...

Bush has made our American image so bad in the world community, it's not even funny.

I disagree, DrewM,

Countries like Syria and Egypt teach anti-americanism almost from the cradle. Keep in mind that the majority of these mid east countries are ruled by corrupt regimes that make the lives of the common person miserable. Anti-Americanism/Israel is a way of directing that anger away from those corrupt mid east regimes. There isn't much Bush can do now that photos of the abuse of our prisoners in Iraq have gotten out. There isn't much anyone can do, for that matter.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
I disagree, DrewM,

Countries like Syria and Egypt teach anti-americanism almost from the cradle. Keep in mind that the majority of these mid east countries are ruled by corrupt regimes that make the lives of the common person miserable. Anti-Americanism/Israel is a way of directing that anger away from those corrupt mid east regimes. There isn't much Bush can do now that photos of the abuse of our prisoners in Iraq have gotten out. There isn't much anyone can do, for that matter.

I think you are right in what you say - but this episode fits very nicely with what they already believe to be true.

everything is the arrogant Mr Bush's fault, no one else has to have any responsibilities for their actions, only bush.

Every american -- you, I, our friends and families are now defined by a set of photos depicting prisoner abuse and torture. Soon we will graduate to rape, murder and pedophilia. The rest of the civilized world will not forgive us for this behaivour. At least not easily and certainly not in the near future. Tattoos are for life and we will learn that we can scratch at the beautifully colored inks, cover them with long sleeved shirts and pants only to awaken the next day to see that nothing has changed. The mark will still be hauntingly there, seemingly smiling at us with a twist of irony and daring us to face yet another day of punishment -- another day of scorn and ridicule.

Eventually realizations will settle in and force america to think long and hard about how we arrived in this zone of all twilights, wishing we could turn back the clock just a few years when everyone was living large on the most robust economy ever known -- where international peace was, for the most part, commonplace and our biggest worry was whether to bet on the Yankees -- surely they were going to win it all again. We will be forced to admit to a deserving punishment.

It's no longer about the troops. It's about the american psyche -- about the rebirth of terms such as 'Ugly American' and 'go home yank' -- terms I thought were buried in the past and remain only as part of our history books, if one looked hard enough at the fine print. It's also about fixing the problem -- about placing the wheels of pride back on our wagon, facing into the wind and telling the world we are ready for another try at fitting into society. Second chances are not that hard to come by if one shows sincerity and a true desire to make right whatever is wrong.

We must guarantee the world we will never again place the top spot in the hands of megalomaniacs full of hubris, arrogance and jingoism. We must never again hire people that don't know 'who is in charge over there' because the dog ate his homework. We must shred the banners carrying the slogans of 'bring em on' and 'mission accomplished', burn the shreds with temperatures that give a new meaning to 'half-life' and bury the ashes deeply in terra mort where they belong.

Begging for forgiveness will be the hard part but that must be part of our rehab, it can't be left out. We will know deep inside that most of us were against all of this -- none of it was done in our names. Sadly, that won't matter and it won't help reconcile what is surely a raw deal. The best we will be able to do is think back to the right wing media spewing out "a few bad apples" in defense of the atrocities. It's too bad they don't realize those apples can cut both ways.

Dop

talk about a drama queen :rolleyes:

Hey Dop send that to the editorial page of the NY Times. They eat that type of opinion up and love to spew it forth on the masses.:rolleyes:

if you ask a liberal the United States is done with after the pictures of naked iraqis, pack it, its over. we have never had a crisis like this, the damage is un repairable. Give me a break.

You know what the sad part is Trav, liberals are pinning their hopes and dreams on bad things happening. If the news in Iraq is bad, terrorist attacks happen, and the economy is poor they stand a chance at winning in November. However if the handover to the Iraqi's on July 1 goes well, there are few terrorist attacks (particularily at the Olympics and here at home), and the economy continues on its robust recovery from the Clinton recession Kerry stands a snowballs chance in hell at winning in November. I think it is sad that the DNC and the Kerry campaign have to play to Americans fears in the hopes to get elected and reclaim the White House.

Dop,

You care to run this we had peace and a robust economy all through the nineties thing by me one more time?

Let's see, various American Embassies got attacked abroad. We had an attack on the USS Cole by Islamic fanactics, there was an attack by those linked to Al-Quaida on the World Trade Center, the Chinese managed to get all kinds of nuclear secrets from Los Alamos on Clinton's watch, the Clinton Administration gives the North Koreans all kinds of nuclear material if only they'll promise not to and make bombs with the stuff:rolleyes: , then there was the disaster in Somalia, oh and the Chinese secretly funded Clinton's re-election campaign in '96. Not to mention genocide in Rwanda the U.N. didn't do a damn thing about.

If this is your idea of "peace," I'd hate to see your idea of when things get bad. Dammit!

Darth

I said a *FEW* years ago -- not a decade and a half.

When the 'big dawg' handed the keys to GWB -- it was pretty much hugs and kisses all around the world with the exceptions of the never-ending israel/pa problem and a few smoldering hot spots. Terrorists attacks notwithstanding.

Geeesh ... are you trying to say we had 90% of our armed forces, national guard, reservist deployed in foreign countries and the prospect of a draft back in '01?

Dop

Originally posted by The Republican
You know what the sad part is Trav, liberals are pinning their hopes and dreams on bad things happening. If the news in Iraq is bad, terrorist attacks happen, and the economy is poor they stand a chance at winning in November. However if the handover to the Iraqi's on July 1 goes well, there are few terrorist attacks (particularily at the Olympics and here at home), and the economy continues on its robust recovery from the Clinton recession Kerry stands a snowballs chance in hell at winning in November. I think it is sad that the DNC and the Kerry campaign have to play to Americans fears in the hopes to get elected and reclaim the White House.

The sad part is that you, and Trav, and Darth can't think in any other terms besides Liberal vs. Conservative. That's what everything boils down to in your mind. You don't agree with someone and and that means they want bad things for America, or they hate America and want to see it destroyed, or they aren't patriots. It would be laughable except it's so widespread. You get your ideas straight from Fox News and then pat yourself on the back as a "real" American.

What makes any of you think you have the first damn clue what someone else thinks or wants for this country? How is it that your opinions are the only ones worth anything? What collossal arrogance has convinced you that all liberals are out to destroy this country?

Do you honestly think that liberals want to see bad things happen to this country, or does it make you feel superior to believe it?

If you gave it a moments thought you would see just how absurd that statement is. I live here too...what could possibly make me want to see bad things happen to this country?

The last poll I heard had Kerry and Bush dead even...if you think that Kerry has no chance to win the election...you are deluding yourself.

BTW Dop, I thought your post was extremely well written. While I don't agree with everything you post that last post was very eloquent and incisive, and by far the best thing I've seen you post. It's too bad some people on this board are too busy feeling superior to read the message without attacking the writer. The attitudes of those who criticized you are the same attitudes that caused the abuse of the prisoners in Iraq. The feeling that America is right and to hell with everyone else. We have the guns so we can do whatever we want. If you disagree with an idea, attack the person who expressed the idea without giving the idea any thought whatever...sad.

Vile

First, thank you for the kind words.

Second, I'm a fantasy writer (believe it or not) so the sciences of politics and human behaviour are not exactly that easy for me, although I do have a fairly nice sized library of syndicated political essays that are available for viewing over the web. CAUTION: not for the weak at heart. LMAO.

Having put in ink, what you call "the best Dop has ever done" is probably more a combination of sheer luck and an outpouring of my feelings of passion over this mess in Iraq.

Of course, a sixer of Rolling Rock and turning off the spell checker helps a lot too :)

Successful writers learn early in their careers that critique is simply no more than a measure of success.

That's why I don't give blood -- my skin is too thick.

Cracking beer #7 -- spell checker off.

Dop

Agree with Pagan that the sad part really is Trav & Republican et al really cannot look at any issue without it being fiercely partisan and in defense of Bush. Some things cannot be defended.

Dop - your post was well written. I don't think it will be as bad as that, but highlights the potential

2 fer 2 agin

I'll take that

have a nice day everyone -- I'm off to the beach

Dop

I have to agree with Vile and Drew - Dop's post was the best ever that he's written. Thanks for sharing it without all of the usual sarcasm -- it makes more sense and doesn't rile the feathers as much.

Cricket

Thank you for endorsing my post. The score is now 3 fer 2 agin.

It's not easy for me to write anything without sarcastic [sic] overtones. I wrote politcal satire for several years (many are availabe on the web unless poindexter had them scrubbed LMAO) and my MO was sarcasm at the caustic level meant to cut and cause pain. I no longer write in that genre -- it cost me to many friends.

Dop

Do you really think that the Arabs would cool off against America even it Bush and Rumsfeld hanged themselves on national t.v. as retrobution.

Kinda makes you wonder if Liberals even see the bad things
going on in this country.However,I Guess you always have the option of throwing of sticks and stones.:bombout:

The arabs will cool off against america when we get out of Iraq and break ties with Israel. That's all it will take. Pretty simple if you think about it.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
The arabs will cool off against america when we get out of Iraq and break ties with Israel. That's all it will take. Pretty simple if you think about it.

Dop

Ah yes...appeasment. Give them what they want and they will behave, right Dop? I think France and England did that with Hitler and they realized how big a mistake it was as the Wermacht marched down the Campes de Ulyses and the Luftwaffe rained bombs down on London.

I have more pride in myself and my country than to appease terrorists. Its about time we got a President that felt the same way.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
The sad part is that you, and Trav, and Darth can't think in any other terms besides Liberal vs. Conservative. That's what everything boils down to in your mind. You don't agree with someone and and that means they want bad things for America, or they hate America and want to see it destroyed, or they aren't patriots. It would be laughable except it's so widespread. You get your ideas straight from Fox News and then pat yourself on the back as a "real" American.

What makes any of you think you have the first damn clue what someone else thinks or wants for this country? How is it that your opinions are the only ones worth anything? What collossal arrogance has convinced you that all liberals are out to destroy this country?

Do you honestly think that liberals want to see bad things happen to this country, or does it make you feel superior to believe it?

If you gave it a moments thought you would see just how absurd that statement is. I live here too...what could possibly make me want to see bad things happen to this country?

The last poll I heard had Kerry and Bush dead even...if you think that Kerry has no chance to win the election...you are deluding yourself.

Actually Pagan that was my own idea. If it happens to coincide with someone from Fox News then so be it...someone else thinks like me. Besides it is not too hard to look at the facts and realize that is what will happen.

I never said that liberals want to destroy this country, although I am sure there are some of them that would if given the chance. But lets look at the facts Pagan. The better things go in Iraq, the better the economy gets, the harder it will be to beat Bush in November. Already liberals on this board are spinning the latest job creation figures as negative claiming they are McJobs. The worse things are for Iraq, the War on Terror, and the economy the stronger chance Kerry has at getting elected in November.

Just think about that. If you were a die hard Kerry supporter and wanted him to get elected so badly what would you want to happen? A good economy and good results in Iraq, or the opposite?

Liberals may not want bad things to happen to this country but if that means you are able to get your man elected than they will find it acceptable. Why do you think they try and spin every positive into a negative? To control the perceptions of the American public. Lets face it. Come October when Bush and Kerry debate if the economy is booming and people are back to work, Iraq has become stable and is moving towards elections in December and we catch Osama Bin Laden what can Kerry attack Bush on? But lets say the opposite is true. The economy is in the tank, people are unemployed, Iraq is in the midst of a civil war, and Osama Bin Laden is still making tapes of Jihad Kerry will be able to keep Bush on the defensive and will almost certainly win in November.

I know if I was voting for Kerry what I would want to happen.

FWIW ... Zogby just posted that this election is Kerry's to lose. -- don't shoot the messenger.

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
FWIW ... Zogby just posted that this election is Kerry's to lose. -- don't shoot the messenger.

Dop

I saw that on Drudge as well. I think it really depends on where we are in September/October when moderate Americans start to pay attention more to the politics of the race.

The interesting part of Zogby's article -- 40% or republicans will vote democrat if the war in Iraq worsens.

Dop

the important thing is winning the election, not the war :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Travh20
the important thing is winning the election, not the war :rolleyes:

That would be an interesting point if we we're in a war. The "war on terror" is not a war. It's a policy declaration by the current administration. What we really have is a group of international criminals that need to be destroyed. To call it a "war" elevates it to a status it doesn't deserve, and makes it seem that it can be won by the military which it cannot. The "war on terror" is no more a "war" than the "war on drugs".

First, "Bravo" to Lungdop philig for his post. Sure, the pictures (and most of all the fact) of prisoners abuse will harm for long the US image. But, as I mentioned in another thread, there is also a positive side to this scandal : the way american media and political class reacted to this scandal. This is a real democracy lesson for all countries, including european "democracies" that hardly get the guts to practice self critic in such a fast and efficient way.
And this is not the opinion of an isolated individual - i have read this in many editorials in french papers too.
If the american people show their disagreement for these practice by sanctioning the present government in november, the overall result ccould be positive in international opinion.

Let me say only one thing, people always project onto others what they would do themselves. SO if the Arab world feels that all Americans would behave that way then they believe that all people act the way they would.