Story: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/05/iraq.abuse.main/index.html

Seems to be fighting in the white house? Haha Bush isn't happy because reports now show that these incidents have been occurring since December, and are going to have long lasting effects on how the Iraqi’s and the Arab world views America. And Bush was "supposedly" clueless to all of this. Yeah, right! But at least their lies, are causing tension...with eachother.

Many videos and pictures have yet to be released, and it is only going to get worse from here on out.

The fact that Rush Limbaugh on his radio show got mad at the President for even talking to the Arab community is appalling. Yet, he is even so blind to say, these incidents are like “college hazing” and doesn’t know what all the fuss is about. Wow, what a fucking moron. Republicans, what to do…

Passing the buck as usual. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Limbaugh should go back to buying crack on street corners.

Rummy may end up the fall guy - I'm sure the whole 'Bush is pissed at Rummy' is engineered to distance Bush from this. If he came out officially and critised Rummy he would look like he was passing the buck. An 'off the record' planned leak that Bush had Rummy over the coals in private sounds much better & sends the same message. Good strategy really.

I agree Drew, it sounds too engineered. I wouldn't mind seeing Rumsfeld, or even better, Wolfowitz, go. If Bush listened to Powell a little more I think we'd all be better off.

Even better would be Cheney to go - although that is unlikely - he's on the ticket, unless his heart problem pops back up.

Originally posted by DrewM
Even better would be Cheney to go - although that is unlikely - he's on the ticket, unless his heart problem pops back up.

Better just get rid of Bush....
:rolleyes:

My guess is Bush will go. People get tired and worried about constant bad news and they yearn for a change in direction. Iraq is what vietnam was to LBJ

The nice thing about getting rid of Bush is that then we get rid of the whole damn lot at once, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz and especially Ashcroft.

constant bad news, thats an understatement. tell me, do you believe that there is absolutely no good news at all? or is it not beign reported? do you picture our troops in foxholes reppeling wave after wave of suicidal iraqis? is their chaos in the streets? constant riots? what exactly do you think of when you think of iraq? a typical day. Maybe we should just pull out and elect kerry, then the whole world will be so much beter off.

I'm sure there is a lot of good news in Iraq - but there is far more bad news at the moment. If this doesn't change in the next 2 - 3 months tops then I doubt Bush has much chance of re-election.

Kerry has no plans to pull out - I think his stated plan with Iraq makes sense and resonates with most people.

On the other hand Kerry will increase taxes - so I'm torn about which would be better.

Yet, he is even so blind to say, these incidents are like “college hazing” and doesn’t know what all the fuss is about. Ok. If we are to believe that the acts in the photos and stuff are the ONLY things going on, then I have to agree with Rush. This is what I've been thinking all along - college pranks, etc. Our soldiers aren't ripping their limbs off, pulling their eyes out, tearing their toes off, etc. (uh, let's hope not, anyway). The acts in the photos are precisely the type of acts that DO go on in college hazing. The problem is that the soldiers should have known better and we should not condone that type of behavior. BUT, after being there for nearly a year (or more) and like I have posted earlier - 5 soldiers for nearly 900 prisioners, worrying if you'll die that day due to a suicide bomber - can you SEE where they may have fallen off the wagon and gotten crazy?

On the other hand...if the photos are the least of the alleged acts and they have done much more serious torture, then there should be heftier consequences. The problem is that we'll never know until the videos, etc. are released...IF they are released.

College Hazing? - Jeez, what college hazing rituals kill the students, have them simulate blow jobs while naked, and pile naked bodies on top of each other?

Rush is high on crack so what would he know anyway?

I didn't hear anything about killing the prisioners, just torturing them -- if I'm missing something please, by all means, let me know. :D

And, I've seen reports of worse college hazing! In fact, many of them wind up in Court also.

There are several reports of prisoners being killed and yesterday an officer that worked in the prison came forward with informaton on, what he said is at least 4 killings. He saw them. IOW -- head for the hills the dam is breaking.

This squabble between Bush and Rumsfeld is no more than a charade to make it look like Bush is really in charge of things and has control of his subordinates when in reality we all know the exact opposite is true. Bush is not part of the NEOCON loop and they let him in on very little. In a way, I believe him when he says he didn't know about the abuse. Puppets never do.

If Rumsfeld was forced to resign, he knows enough to bring down the entire administration. PNAC and the NEOCONS would never allow that to happe.

Prediction: Look for a complete and total cover up of the abuse story as Bush and Rumsfeld high five and take their lemmings closer to the edge of the cliff.

Powell is another story. Wouldn't surprise me to see him step down. His people -- Amitage et al -- came out yesterday with Colon not being happy at all, in fact, they say he is pissed at himself for letting this group talk him into going in front of the UN with the false evidence when he knew it was the wrong thing to do.

Daylight come and me wanna go hoooooome ....

Dop

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Prediction: Look for a complete and total cover up of the abuse story as Bush and Rumsfeld high five and take their lemmings closer to the edge of the cliff.

How do you cover up a story that's in broad daylight, jumping up and down, and waving its arms?

Same way they cover up everything that happens.

1) I wasn't informed
2) We have to keep it secret for national security
3) I refuse to testify and so do all my people
4) We'll see what my buds on the supreme court have to say
5) Who cares what you think
6) Blame it on Clinton's penis

See? nothing to it.

On a serious note -- it's been what? 4 days now and no one is being hauled in, no one is being questioned, no one in the loop has even read the report that started this whole thing. It's pretty obvious where it's going.

Dop

What do you mean nobody is being hauled in? The soldiers in question are in custody. The prison brass has been replaced and Rummy has a full day of testimony before the congress & senate tommorrow.

I bet there are quite a few soldiers right now who are thanking their lucky stars that they were not in any photo's. More photo's came out today - one of a iraqi handcuffed prostrate across a bed, standing up - with his arms stretched back so far he looks like he is in serious pain. Then he has some womens panties on his head. Then another with a naked iraqi on the floor - a dog leash around his neck being 'walked' by a soldier.

It will be a shame if only the soldiers involved get it in the neck - this has to go all the way to the top - Rummy must go to make a serious statement to the Arab world.

At least Bush finally apolgised today - that was a good thing.

Apologized? to who? his friend abdullah of Jordan?

BWAhahahahaha ... all this time I was under the impression it the Iraquis we tortured -- not the Jordanians. Silly me. And besides *apologizing* to the wrong audience, did anyone actually hear him say it or did it come across as a report that he told abdullah that he was sorry? And while we're at it -- sorry for what? I believe he said sorry for them being humiliated -- not sorry that the crimes happened. He's sorry that they were caught. LMAO.

Nope, nice tryGWB and thanks for playing but this will not be accepted as an apology by anybody other than Rush, Sean, Bill, FOX, CNN ....

And so what if there are a whole 6 low level soldiers in custody. The reports now total in the dozens and probably approaching the hundreds. There should be scores of people in custody and being questioned -- not 6 grunts. Start with the Joint Chiefs of Staff who ordered CBS to hide the photos for 2 weeks -- dude that's a war crime. Then get every freaking photo journalist on the planet inside that prison and get pictures before the bruises and cuts heal and prisoners can be moved out.

Anything less is an admission of guilt.

Rumsfeld was given a favor by his buddy from virginia -- Warner -- who called him to testify. It buys Rummy a couple of days and you can bet your ass it won't be the Big Unit tossing the pitches.

Neither committees in the house or the committee in the senate have actually started any investigation. They're talking about it. WTF is there to talk about?

Fer chrissakes -- it's time to bring murder charges against some of these people and the frigging idiots are *TALKING ABOUT IT* ?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Dop

Dop while I admit the apology was to King Abdullah and not to the Iraqi people Bush did come out after his meeting to address the press with the King and he explicitly said he appologized to him for the actions of our troops.

Yeah I caught that part rep -- slick move.

Dop

He also apologised to the TV cameras in the Rose Garden

And the cover up begins.

Item 1: Lou Dobbs interviewed the guy (name escapes me) that chairs the Senate Armed Forces committee that will *INTERVIEW* rummy today. Lou asked him what they would be trying to find out. Guess what? Others on the panel may ask about the prisoner abuse issue but he will not. He is satisfied they have the 6 people that comitted the crimes and that should be enough. He went on to praise rummy and pretty much said that he has no problem with what went on in Abu Ghraib.

Item 2: Yesterday congress passed an emergency bill that disallows themselves from investigating the prisoner abuse scandal. All investigations have to be handled by the pentagon. So that means the pentagon will investigate themselves.

Item 3: Rumsfeld met in private yesterday afternoon with the republicans that sit on the committee that will interview him -- no dems were invited -- BWAhahahahahahaha ... talk about the fix is in -- and what? No duck hunting trip? LMAO.

Item 4: The civilians can not be prosecuted -- period.

Lift the rug cause here comes the dirt. ROTFLMAO.

Dop

I totally recant my prior post of citing "college hazings". I hadn't yet heard about any killings. But, after reading THIS ARTICLE from the New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/) I am totally appalled. If only the 6 soldiers fry for this, there should be hell to pay. If Rumsfeld knew of the killings, and did nothing to bring it out or stop it, he should step down...as should all the others involved in the cover up. Holy Christ.

The sad thing is that this must go on over and over and over again, but because now there is photographic proof, it's coming to light. Geneva Convention or not, I'm sure that other countries participate in such acts also. Who's to know?? Our soldiers stupidly took photos of it. Bet they'll decide against that in the future.

Rummy, Karpinski and the other higher ups should definitely step down. How embarassing.

Holy God!! Now Rummy is saying the detainees that were victimized should be compensated!! You know who's gonna pay that bill, dontcha? Deficit is skyrocketing now, add the rebuilding of Iraq AND the potential compensation of "x" number of tortured prisioners = we're sooo totally screwed!! Rummy should step down and forfeit his salary (and other perks) in order for the compensation to begin.