it seems all of the officers in charge of and around john kerry in vietnam have created a group that is going to sign a letter stating that kerry is unfit to serve as CIC. the group is made up of democrats and republicans. thought it was interesting that this would happen.

STORY (http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=/SpecialReports/archive/200405/SPE20040503a.html)

I posted the same thing in the re-election forum this morning. Glad to see we read the same resources.;)

An interesting article. I am curious to see what the fallout will be. To be honest, I think even if he is unqualified to be CIC, he's still just as qualified as Bush.

And the source for this expose is 'CNSnews' -- owned and operated by -- 'Media Research Center' who's slogan is ....

"The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias"

BWAhahahahahaha ... yeah they don't have an agenda -- group them right up there with rush and drudge.

Dop

Dop,

Everyone has an agenda. And who cares if CNS is out to expose a liberal bias in the media...if it is infact true that Kerry's former superiors and peers are going to sign a statement that he is not fit to be CIC it deals a large blow to him using his Vietnam War experience to his benefit.

it only matters to dop who owns a news outlet when the story is harmful to his agenda. he has no qualms about posting obviously biased arab media storys blasting US military actions, yet is quick to point out who owns and operates any source critical of kerry

Rep

Couple of things -- first I question how solid their information is. Guess we'll have to wait and see if it happens.

Second -- these officers are making a very gutsy gamble. If, and I say if, kerry gets elected after they make this expose, they may wish, career wise, they had never done it. Payback is a bitch and no one is in a better position to handout that payback than the POTUS. It doesn't take much -- a few laws unfavorable to the type of companies they CEO or move their (grand)kids to the top of the draft list or a little IRS trouble ... possibilities are endless.

Time will tell.

Dop

so like bill clinton, kerry will personally destroy anyone who dare question him on anything, thats nice.

Originally posted by Travh20
so like bill clinton, kerry will personally destroy anyone who dare question him on anything, thats nice.

Sounds like a typical librul tactic:@@:

It's a general statement trav and rep -- point being, a person should think twice before messing with a potential president of the united states. Like, if at work you know the guy sitting in the next cubicle is gonna get a promotion and be your boss next week -- you don't necessarily kiss his ass but you don 't intentionally piss him off either (or do you?).

Geeesh ... do I have to explain everything in simple 2nd grade talking point terms like rush and sean?

Dop

ya dop, maybe you do, your superior intellect leaves mortal men in stunned silence. maybe if you didnt go into specifics about what kerry would do when he made it to prez, and instead just said what you said now, we wouldnt have reacted the way we did. And to say that people should be scared about casting kerry in anything other than a favorable light is a little scary.

Shit happens all the time on both sides of the aisle trav and your denial and ignorance of that fact is just one reason you would never make it as a politician -- especially inside the beltway where they play pretty rough and political amateurs aren't allowed and in fact they aren't even invited. They make short business of naive people like you. Just ask Jimmy Carter how rough it can get. They sent his ass packing back to plains to work for his bro in the billy beer business. Really, really, really LMAO.

Oh, you could ask Paul Wellstone too or the Baxter guy from Enron or Scarbourgh's secretary or Carnahan if any of them were still alive. LMOA.

Dop

first of all, I have no desire to become a politician. why dont you go run and hide from the mean conservatives making fun of you again dop, BOO!

Originally posted by Travh20
so like bill clinton, kerry will personally destroy anyone who dare question him on anything, thats nice.

Just out of curiosity who did Clinton personally destroy?

Sure trav, you really SCARE !!!!!!! me -- watch me shake.

BWAhahahahahahahahahahahaha

Dop

your the one who said you went away becasue youi were scared when someone mentioned GITMO and your name, like a little sissy who can dish it out but cant take it

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Just out of curiosity who did Clinton personally destroy?

I wish I had the link to all the people associated with the Clintons that are dead or serving time. If I find it I will post it.

I am still waiting for Dick Morris to get his...he should watch out in the dreaded event Hillary gets elected CIC "shouders at the thought".

Originally posted by Travh20
your the one who said you went away becasue youi were scared when someone mentioned GITMO and your name, like a little sissy who can dish it out but cant take it

Damn it Trav, I'm the only sissy on this forum...


Take that-:hitout: and this-:hitout:

i am just destroying all your notions of how I think of you arent I pagan?

Originally posted by Travh20
i am just destroying all your notions of how I think of you arent I pagan?

I am beside myself with despair...:D

Kerry's command abilities demonstrated as a young Naval officer running a gun boat on a river have little to do with anything happening in the Oval Office. What other hands on experience of any sort - beyond playing politician and chasing unbelieveably rich women - has he done since Viet Nam? Say what you will about Bush, he at least stumbled and fell through the business world for some time while getting his head together and deciding to play politician.

Originally posted by es347fan
Kerry's command abilities demonstrated as a young Naval officer running a gun boat on a river have little to do with anything happening in the Oval Office. What other hands on experience of any sort - beyond playing politician and chasing unbelieveably rich women - has he done since Viet Nam? Say what you will about Bush, he at least stumbled and fell through the business world for some time while getting his head together and deciding to play politician.

Deciding to play politician after he got DUI's, and was on drugs.

so anyone with a DUI or has done drugs is unfit for service as president or just republicans?

Originally posted by Travh20
so anyone with a DUI or has done drugs is unfit for service as president or just republicans?

He said he got his "head" together. I was just saying, how he really didn't.

:p

ya sure

;)

Originally posted by es347fan
What other hands on experience of any sort - beyond playing politician and chasing unbelieveably rich women - has he done since Viet Nam? Say what you will about Bush, he at least stumbled and fell through the business world for some time while getting his head together and deciding to play politician.

So they both play at being politicians....what's the difference?

one didnt stab his so called comades in the back and start 30 years of resentment of American veterans of a serious conflict. now that kerry needs his veteran status to help him out its all of a sudden fasionable to be a vietnam vet again. thats the thing that angers veterans, who see this guy as an opportunist. his charater is lacking any substance, and since character is important again since 2000, its back on the table

Originally posted by Travh20
one didnt stab his so called comades in the back and start 30 years of resentment of American veterans of a serious conflict. now that kerry needs his veteran status to help him out its all of a sudden fasionable to be a vietnam vet again. thats the thing that angers veterans, who see this guy as an opportunist. his charater is lacking any substance, and since character is important again since 2000, its back on the table

Why do you insist on blaming Kerry for ALL the resentment in this country over the Vietnam war?

Oh, that's right it must be some liberals fault, it couldn't have been the result of 20 years of misguided foreign policy, it must have been some liberal that was the problem. :rolleyes:

The truth is Trav, you weren't even alive during the Vietnam war yet you talk about people spitting on the troops when they came home and how Kerry did this and Kerry did that. Stop believing all the propaganda you've been spoon-fed by the right.

Sure trav, you really SCARE !!!!!!! me -- watch me shake. Who in the hell IS this guy??!! And WHY don't we have an "ignore" button??!! For a 62 year old, I have to say that a man literally 1/2 his age (Trav) is more mature. Give Me a Break!

You guys -- really -- I think this election is all about the lesser of the two evils. My problem is that I can't figure that out! And, I know that's the problem with a lot of my peers and family. It will be interesting to see if we aren't neck and neck in November like the past election.

I have to agree with Trav and Rep (and I'm most definitely NOT a Bush supporter), Kerry did all those things to bash the government and war at that time, WHY should he be in the oval office? That's most definitely a question of patriotism.

BUT after Bush has dragged us through a war we supposedly didn't need to be in, still hasn't captured OBL, deficit, etc. how is he going to pull us out of the pit we've fallen into?

Of course you all know that OBL will be "captured" on the eve of the election thus putting Kerry out to pasture...so why sweat it?

Trav, perhaps you SHOULD run for office. At least you're easy to argue with. :D

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Why do you insist on blaming Kerry for ALL the resentment in this country over the Vietnam war?

Oh, that's right it must be some liberals fault, it couldn't have been the result of 20 years of misguided foreign policy, it must have been some liberal that was the problem. :rolleyes:

The truth is Trav, you weren't even alive during the Vietnam war yet you talk about people spitting on the troops when they came home and how Kerry did this and Kerry did that. Stop believing all the propaganda you've been spoon-fed by the right.

OK pagan, are you saying that people didnt spit on and despise the troops returning from vietnam, that that never happened? Why would they do something like that? could it be becasue they didnt like the fact that those soldiers were runing around burning villages and cutting off heads and being barbarians? I wonder where they got that idea? it might not all have been kerrys fault, but he made it official with his speech before the senate. he tipped the balance. If he didnt go out and do that it may not have taken 25 years to welcome our fighting men back, and he might be a shoe in for president. he cant escape his past, and no amount of playing it off is going to change the fact he did a disservice to his fellow men at arms.

Originally posted by saycricket
Who in the hell IS this guy??!! And WHY don't we have an "ignore" button??!! For a 62 year old, I have to say that a man literally 1/2 his age (Trav) is more mature. Give Me a Break!

There is one, actually. Although I don't know where it is. :)

You guys -- really -- I think this election is all about the lesser of the two evils. My problem is that I can't figure that out!

Vote for a third party. I plan to.

Originally posted by Travh20
OK pagan, are you saying that people didnt spit on and despise the troops returning from vietnam, that that never happened?

Actually one of the local conservative talk show guys has been asking Vietnam vets for years if anyone ever spit on them when they came back and no one has come forward and said they were. I don't doubt that it happened to a couple of them, but by and large I suspect it's a myth.

Can someone tell my why Kerry was testifying about war crimes before Congress anyway? What did he see floating offshore on a destroyer and later a gunboat?

I dont think anyone returning from WW2 was spit on

Actually I was reading about this the other day. Vietnam vets were not "spit" on by peace activists, there is some research to suggest that those who did "spit" were actually vets of the 2nd world war, pissed that the next generation didn't "win" this one.

I could provide a better source on this tomorrow.

:rolleyes: now I have heard it all. I think my days on this forum are about over.

Originally posted by Pepper
Actually I was reading about this the other day. Vietnam vets were not "spit" on by peace activists, there is some research to suggest that those who did "spit" were actually vets of the 2nd world war, pissed that the next generation didn't "win" this one.

I could provide a better source on this tomorrow.

Yes please do provide a source. This is one tidbit of crap I gotta see the proof on...and it better be good proof.

You can wait one day before you fling the mud can't you?

Originally posted by Travh20
I think my days on this forum are about over.
OVER? YES!!! ::dances on a table:: :banana:

Originally posted by Pepper
You can wait one day before you fling the mud can't you?

Certainly...but the muds already in the hand with the arm slung back.:D

Originally posted by BorgHunter
OVER? YES!!! ::dances on a table:: :banana:

you cut me deep borg, you cut me real deep just now

Originally posted by Travh20
you cut me deep borg, you cut me real deep just now
Trav, you a such a drama queen. :D

it was actually a quote from donkey to shrek in the first shrek movie

Check out the book called The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory and the Legacy of Vietnam, by Vietnam Vet and sociologist Jerry Lembcke.

It was the book that was referenced. The idea that hawkish vets of previous wars regarding Vietnam vet's as loosers. Spit and ridicule.

I'm not saying it was a majority, but there is obviously research to suggest that it might have happened.

I just put the book on hold in the library, so I'll be able to provide more information when it comes in.

Originally posted by Travh20
OK pagan, are you saying that people didnt spit on and despise the troops returning from vietnam, that that never happened?

I would be willing to bet that you have mentioned it more times than it actually happened.
[QUOTE][B]
Why would they do something like that? could it be becasue they didnt like the fact that those soldiers were runing around burning villages and cutting off heads and being barbarians? I wonder where they got that idea?

Trav, understand that Vietnam was seen by most citizens of this country as unwinnable. It was the first war that was beamed into people's homes via television. It became a regular thing to see the casualty figures on the nightly news, all without any sign that it would end, and no clear goal in mind other than "making the world safe for democracy" and other cold war rhetoric. people were rioting in the streets over the issue and the military's shooting of some of the demonstrtors only inflamed public opinion more.

it might not all have been kerrys fault, but he made it official with his speech before the senate. he tipped the balance. If he didnt go out and do that it may not have taken 25 years to welcome our fighting men back, and he might be a shoe in for president.

Trav, you are speaking about events that you yourself did not witness. Kerry's actions just were not that important. He was just one more protester. I was alive at the time and had anti-war sentiments and I don't even remember him testifying before Congess. Perhaps others on this forum do, but in the vast crowd screaming for the end of the Vietnam war his was just one more voice. The troops were not welcomed back because by the time the war ended, the American public was deeply dissiillusioned by the war, and the government. You have to remember that the Watergate scandal was in full swing as well and the President would end up resigning in disgrace.

he cant escape his past, and no amount of playing it off is going to change the fact he did a disservice to his fellow men at arms.

Well, I can understand why you feel that way and it's your right to hold that opinion. I would be curious to know what you think Kerry's motive would be in doing a disservice to his fellow servicemen.

Trav you know all but one man who served under Kerry’s infantry said they support his actions, and what he says. To say he is lying, when you yourself hasn’t witnessed it is just messed up. It’s so wonderful how the Republicans, attack Kerry for actually going, but then they themselves don’t even have a President who served.


:confused:

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
Trav you know all but one man who served under Kerry’s infantry said they support his actions, and what he says.

Just to be anal, Kerry was in the Navy, not the infantry. :)

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Just to be anal, Kerry was in the Navy, not the infantry. :)

oops. haha, Trav will give me "shit" for that, and disregard what I was really trying to convey with my post. Thanks, though.

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
Trav you know all but one man who served under Kerry’s infantry said they support his actions, and what he says. To say he is lying, when you yourself hasn’t witnessed it is just messed up. It’s so wonderful how the Republicans, attack Kerry for actually going, but then they themselves don’t even have a President who served.


:confused:

kerry wasnt in the infantry, so theres no "kerrys infantry", I love when these anti war, anti gun types who wouldnt know which way to hold an M-16 are suddenly Dwight D Eisenhower. I am not attacking kerry for going, I commend him for it, i am attacking him for playing it up as a big war hero now that it suits his personle goals, but when it was expediant to be agaisnt the war he was ashamed and threw his medals over the fence and made a big todo in front of the senate. And george bush did serve. he flew a jet fighter plane in the national guard. what have you done?


Kerry unfit for service (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archiv e\200405\SPE20040503a.html)

Originally posted by Travh20
kerry wasnt in the infantry, so theres no "kerrys infantry", I love when these anti war, anti gun types who wouldnt know which way to hold an M-16 are suddenly Dwight D Eisenhower. I am not attacking kerry for going, I commend him for it, i am attacking him for playing it up as a big war hero now that it suits his personle goals, but when it was expediant to be agaisnt the war he was ashamed and threw his medals over the fence and made a big todo in front of the senate. And george bush did serve. he flew a jet fighter plane in the national guard. what have you done?


Kerry
unfit for service (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archiv e\200405\SPE20040503a.html)

See, I told you he was going to “ding” me for that, and not what I was really trying to say. Oh well, the people who served under Kerry, all but one, said they respect and honor what he is doing and what he says.

He threw his ribbons, if I’m correct....

Bush flew a jet in the National Guard…I’m sure if I learned I could fly a plane too..hahahahahahaha

so you belittle the national guard, that real nice of you. slap millions of men in the face who served in the guard jsut to get a swipe at bush. and your damn right I am going to "ding" you for being wrong about kerrys service. if you are going to run around extolling the virtues of military service you best damn well know what you are talking about. and the fact that you believe there is a differnecvce between medals and ribbons shows your either totally ignorant or just buy into the line of bullshit that there is some profound diffrence between ribbons and medals

Originally posted by Travh20
so you belittle the national guard, that real nice of you. slap millions of men in the face who served in the guard jsut to get a swipe at bush. and your damn right I am going to "ding" you for being wrong about kerrys service. if you are going to run around extolling the virtues of military service you best damn well know what you are talking about. and the fact that you believe there is a differnecvce between medals and ribbons shows your either totally ignorant or just buy into the line of bullshit that there is some profound diffrence between ribbons and medals

I’m not trying to “belittle” the NG…all I’m saying is that you are trying to make George Bush look good for going into the NG, as if he did something substantial…when he left, right before Vietnam to join the Texas NG…and that is just sickening. The NG is much different now, then it was back then.

Yes, I’m not great with military lingo, but I could provide many, many more dings on Bush not being great with any “lingo”.

So what happened to the big Bash Kerry news conference yesterday?

it went off but of course no mention in the news, as usual.

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
I’m not trying to “belittle” the NG…all I’m saying is that you are trying to make George Bush look good for going into the NG, as if he did something substantial…when he left, right before Vietnam to join the Texas NG…and that is just sickening. The NG is much different now, then it was back then.

Yes, I’m not great with military lingo, but I could provide many, many more dings on Bush not being great with any “lingo”.

how convienient, the national guard is much different now,. so are you saying everyone who served in the guard during bushs service was simply getting out of vietnam? you put your foot in your mouth now deal with it

Originally posted by Travh20
how convienient, the national guard is much different now,. so are you saying everyone who served in the guard during bushs service was simply getting out of vietnam? you put your foot in your mouth now deal with it

I’m saying that the National Guard wasn’t as relevant back then, for we didn’t have as much terrorism. I’m not saying the NG had no purpose back then, but now it’s more relevant. To say Bush flew a plane, as your defense to say he did something is a sad excuse to EXCUSE him from not going to Vietnam

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
I’m saying that the National Guard wasn’t as relevant back then, for we didn’t have as much terrorism. I’m not saying the NG had no purpose back then, but now it’s more relevant. To say Bush flew a plane, as your defense to say he did something is a sad excuse to EXCUSE him from not going to Vietnam

The NG was extremely relevent back then. So much so that they ran out of infantry units to send to Vietnam that they had to have a draft. At any moment Bush's NG unit could have been called up to serve in Vietnam...but as I understand the planes they were flying in his unit were outdated and they were not. This argument of yours is very, very weak.

Originally posted by The Republican
The NG was extremely relevent back then. So much so that they ran out of infantry units to send to Vietnam that they had to have a draft. At any moment Bush's NG unit could have been called up to serve in Vietnam...but as I understand the planes they were flying in his unit were outdated and they were not. This argument of yours is very, very weak.

Isn’t the NG here to protect our home front, not go overseas? Not to be rude, but maybe the reason we didn’t have enough units, was because everyone joined the NG? But regardless, Bush flying a plane is just a weak argument no matter what. Compared to what Kerry did, it’s just sad. And the way Bush smuggled his way out of face-to-face combat is just sad. Yet, the Republicans are so keen on trashing Kerry’s war record…

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
Isn’t the NG here to protect our home front, not go overseas? Not to be rude, but maybe the reason we didn’t have enough units, was because everyone joined the NG? But regardless, Bush flying a plane is just a weak argument no matter what. Compared to what Kerry did, it’s just sad. And the way Bush smuggled his way out of face-to-face combat is just sad. Yet, the Republicans are so keen on trashing Kerry’s war record…

Yes the NG is to protect America at home, but they also are able to be called to active service in a war. Trav feel free to jump in if I am wrong.

How is flying a plane a weak argument? Seems much harder than driving a boat.

And if you read and watch the news you will notice that we are not "trashing" his service record...our complaints are the way he acted after getting back stateside and his abismal voting record on defense and intelligence in the senate.

Originally posted by The Republican

How is flying a plane a weak argument? Seems much harder than driving a boat.

And if you read and watch the news you will notice that we are not "trashing" his service record...our complaints are the way he acted after getting back stateside and his abismal voting record on defense and intelligence in the senate.

You sure overstepped the line on this one. To say flying a plane is harder then driving a boat. wow...

Kerry was in harms way, and faced frontline combat. He saved a solider out of the water, and did much more then just “drive a boat”. Come on. Seriously...

Your comment makes me sick...and you say I'm disrespectful. Try being more respectful to the Navy.

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
You sure overstepped the line on this one. To say flying a plane is harder then driving a boat. wow...

Kerry was in harms way, and faced frontline combat. He saved a solider out of the water, and did much more then just “drive a boat”. Come on. Seriously...

Your comment makes me sick...and you say I'm disrespectful. Try being more respectful to the Navy.

Congratulations...you are becoming very adept at completely missing the point. You said flying a plane was weak and I asked how you can figure that. Again instead of answering the question you choose to sidestep it and respond with something I never said.

Will you agree that flying a plane is harder than driving a boat? Have you ever done either? My comment was not an attack on Kerry or the Navy...it was simply a question as to which was harder. Please stop twisting my words. Not once did I ever say Kerry only drove a boat.

Now please answer the question. It is pretty simple.

Originally posted by The Republican
Congratulations...you are becoming very adept at completely missing the point. You said flying a plane was weak and I asked how you can figure that. Again instead of answering the question you choose to sidestep it and respond with something I never said.

Will you agree that flying a plane is harder than driving a boat? Have you ever done either? My comment was not an attack on Kerry or the Navy...it was simply a question as to which was harder. Please stop twisting my words. Not once did I ever say Kerry only drove a boat.

Now please answer the question. It is pretty simple.

Don't tell me what to do, and what not to do.

Neither of us can answer the question, because nether of us have done either. At least to my knowledge. So it's a question that cannot be answered.

To me, it would seem a boat would have more switches, and things to memorize. While a plane, would have less, and more "automatic" adjustments to it to make it easier.

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
Don't tell me what to do, and what not to do.

Neither of us can answer the question, because nether of us have done either. At least to my knowledge. So it's a question that cannot be answered.

To me, it would seem a boat would have more switches, and things to memorize. While a plane, would have less, and more "automatic" adjustments to it to make it easier.

There are a lot more things to monitor and watch on a jet than a boat. While I have not flown a jet I have piloted a boat many, many times and it is a lot easier than driving a car.

Originally posted by The Republican
There are a lot more things to monitor and watch on a jet than a boat. While I have not flown a jet I have piloted a boat many, many times and it is a lot easier than driving a car.

Again we are both not eligible to say what is "harder".

The big bash against Kerry didn't get any air time?

The media has to be very careful what they put out to the public at this particular time considering the prisoner abuse gate that's building a full head of steam.

For starters, this group against Kerry may not be exactly as advertised so the media probably feels very uncomfortable promoting anything until they have completely vetted all the information. If these guys are legitimate -- they will get to say their piece to the public.

The reason for the media caution is the smell in the air -- that of war crimes and crimes against humanity. If there is a cover up and it fails, everyone concerned will go down. That includes the media and by that I mean the individual reporters and anchors. If they are found to have knowingly lied on the air to promote a cover up -- that's a war crime, same as it was at Nuremberg and even though the US pulled out of the war crimes tribunal, there's no guarantee that couldn't be reversed if enough pressure comes down.

Also, remember Nixon wasn't brought down because of Watergate -- it was the cover up that sunk him. Lessons learned.

I can't help but have this vision of the prisoner-abuse perps meeting on the far side of the moon, conspiring to hoodwink all of us, only to find out how it really works. That the political continuum is a circle -- not a straight line and the extremes always meet opposite the political center -- that being 'The Hague'.

Dop

The National Guard of today is very different than the Guard during the Vietnam war. Today we have an all volunteer army and when additional troops are needed they activate Guard units. During Vietnam if they needed additional troops they drafted people directly into the Army. During Vietnam, if you wanted to avoid being drafted into the Army, one way was to join the National Guard. There was very little chance that your Guard unit would be called up to serve in Vietnam, although there were some Air National Guard units that were sent, it was a lot safer to be in the Guard during Vietnam than it is today.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing



For starters, this group against Kerry may not be exactly as advertised so the media probably feels very uncomfortable promoting anything until they have completely vetted all the information. If these guys are legitimate -- they will get to say their piece to the public.


Dop

funny how the media only wants to drag it feet and get all the facts when the issue involves a democrat. the bush national guard thing was on the front page the second terry macallife uttered the words. the search for the facts was the news, now they all of a sudden they want the facts before it s reported. its a double standard that is so obvious its almost funny that people eithe cant see it or refuse to see it. any news against kerry is relegated to the right wing media, which as they are not seen as "objective" like the so called "objective" main stram press, get no credibility, so no one takes them seriously. its quite the system. report everything bad about bush and the military at the drop of a hat, drag your feet lookin for "the truth" when it cames to a democrat and take so long the alternative media has to pick it up, the only thing is the alternative media gets no mention and no credibility becasue its not "objective" enough. Its really a fool proof system, becasue the liberal media comes out clean on both ends, while the alternative media gets labeled right wing attack dogs


as far as the boat/plane argument, they are both hard to do. Technically a jet plane is a lot harder to fly. anyone who thinks driving a boat and flying a fighter jet over the speed of sound are comprable is clueless. on the other hand, doing anything in a war zone can be hard. Just walking through a war zone can be the most difficult thing of all, and that takes no training.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
The National Guard of today is very different than the Guard during the Vietnam war. Today we have an all volunteer army and when additional troops are needed they activate Guard units. During Vietnam if they needed additional troops they drafted people directly into the Army. During Vietnam, if you wanted to avoid being drafted into the Army, one way was to join the National Guard. There was very little chance that your Guard unit would be called up to serve in Vietnam, although there were some Air National Guard units that were sent, it was a lot safer to be in the Guard during Vietnam than it is today.

so people who served in the guard then were not as patriotic as people who serve today? why bash the guard then turn around and try to justify it? would you rather peole just go to canada or england instead? why not just go to college? saying joing the guard to get out of military service is assinine. it is military service! the truth is there was no way to tell what your unit would do. same as today. its sad to see an entire branch of the military labeled not as patriotica s teh rest just to get a swipe at bush. lots of guard units were in vietnam. I fbushs got called to go I am sure he would have went.

Originally posted by Travh20
funny how the media only wants to drag it feet and get all the facts when the issue involves a democrat. the bush national guard thing was on the front page the second terry macallife uttered the words.

Obviously you know this because you are involved in the media, and were personally involved with the Bush National Guard story.

the search for the facts was the news, now they all of a sudden they want the facts before it s reported. its a double standard that is so obvious its almost funny that people eithe cant see it or refuse to see it.

Maybe it's not being seen because it doesn't really exist.

any news against kerry is relegated to the right wing media, which as they are not seen as "objective" like the so called "objective" main stram press, get no credibility, so no one takes them seriously.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, the term "right-wing media" defines an unobjective news source.

its quite the system. report everything bad about bush and the military at the drop of a hat, drag your feet lookin for "the truth" when it cames to a democrat and take so long the alternative media has to pick it up, the only thing is the alternative media gets no mention and no credibility becasue its not "objective" enough. Its really a fool proof system, becasue the liberal media comes out clean on both ends, while the alternative media gets labeled right wing attack dogs


The "system" as you call it, is driven by one thing. Ratings. This seems to be something you conveniently overlook in your rants against the "liberal" media. If the media reports one story more than another, it's likely because one story is more controversial, and thus likely to generate better ratings than another.

Where is your evidence that the mainstream media is controlled by liberals? I would assume you consider NBC to be a member of the "liberal' media. Do you know who owns NBC?

How does the recent refusal by the Disney Co. to release Michael Moores latest film fit into your "liberal media" conspiracy?

What about the fact that talk- radio is almost completely dominated by conservative talk shows prove your fears about a liberal controlled media?

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
Sure trav, you really SCARE !!!!!!! me -- watch me shake.

BWAhahahahahahahahahahahaha

Dop
Careful, now!!!

Trav's ol' lady has his back!!!!!

http://www.drbukk.com/images9/cebina.jpg

LOL, Shaman, that is perhaps the funniest thing you've ever posted. That's not saying much but...lol...:D

Just to level the playing field, here is Shaman...taking a break from writing angry letters to the government in his parent's basement. (Said letter has a plethora of links, of course.)

http://www.bobfromaccounting.com/8_07/slackerlarge.jpg

:D No offense meant, Shaman, just goofing around. ;)

Careful Borg, lest someone post a picture of you...:D

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Careful Borg, lest someone post a picture of you...:D
Like this one?

http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lthomas/nerd.jpg

:D

Originally posted by Vilepagan

What about the fact that talk- radio is almost completely dominated by conservative talk shows prove your fears about a liberal controlled media?

It's not liberal controlled, it's just plain liberal.

Hey everyone -- ya know this deal where Kerry is a flip-flopper so he's not qualified to be president of the United States. Like, dudes, to be president you have to be someone that never wavers or backs off their committments and has a stellar record of protecting the state of Texas against Viet Cong insurgents in the 70's. LMAO.

Then what do you call it when President Bush promised he would not be coming back to congress for more war money until after the election and now is hitting them up for 25 big ones? Oh, that's not flip-flopping cause that term only applies to democrats ... er make that war hero democrats. LMAO.

Best part of the story is where Powell goes in front of the Black Caucus and gaaar-un-fookin-teees them the president won't be asking for any more money. Why did he say that? Cause the white house AGAIN left him out of the loop and let him go in front of the black caucus and humiliate himself.

Looks like Belafonte was right ... day light come and me wanna go home.

Dop

Who knew the situation would get this out of hand? Bush is not a mind reader. While I don't personally like the man or his cabinet, WTF is he supposed to do? It's like remodeling your house and finding that you have extensive termite damage. You have to fix it, or else it will continue to get eaten away. May as well borrow the money to get it done right the first time.

Bad analogy, I know, but I couldn't think of anything else! :D

Originally posted by Travh20
one didnt stab his so called comades in the back and start 30 years of resentment of American veterans of a serious conflict. now that kerry needs his veteran status to help him out its all of a sudden fasionable to be a vietnam vet again. thats the thing that angers veterans, who see this guy as an opportunist. his charater is lacking any substance, and since character is important again since 2000, its back on the table
Spin-away, CLOWN!!!!!!!!!! (http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=23656) :rolleyes:

You're OUT-NUMBERED!!!!!!!!!! (http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showforum=2) :hitout:

Who knew the situation would get this out of hand?
The wacky Iraqi Information Minister did!
"The United States forces will be drawn into a prolonged conflict with increasing casualties that will damage America's standing in the international community"
Oh the irony! He was right about one thing! I just find that funny...

anything that makes the US look bad is OK in bliblobs book

Originally posted by Travh20
anything that makes the US look bad is OK in bliblobs book

No just anything that makes Bush look bad is OK...:)